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K3 Display is Dated...

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ke9uw

K3 Display is Dated...

I was wondering if the K3 display could be replaced by an updated display, one that looks like the ones on the newest rigs from Japan. Could it be displayed on the monitor connected to the svga on P3? Just wondering :)

Chuck, KE9UW

Thom

Re: K3 Display is Dated...

I was turning the knob on a K3S at Dayton and thought to myself...this
looks like the display on my 10 year old Kenwood TS-570D. Come to think
of it maybe Kenwood needs to update the displays on most of there radios
too.

73

Thom KI8W

On 5/30/2017 17:36, ke9uw wrote:

> I was wondering if the K3 display could be replaced by an updated display,
> one that looks like the ones on the newest rigs from Japan. Could it be
> displayed on the monitor connected to the svga on P3? Just wondering :)
>
>
>
> -----
> Chuck, KE9UW
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Display-is-Dated-tp7631264.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
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Phil Hystad-3

Re: K3 Display is Dated...

Besides my K3 & P3, I also have an Icom IC-7300. The touch color display of the IC-7300 is essentially the same size as the P3 and I think the P3 is a little tiny bit larger of maybe 1/8th inch larger diagonal measure. The information on the IC-7300 is basically the same as the combo of the K3 and P3 although different display options (mostly on the 7300) makes this a dubious comparison.

But, I think that the entire P3 display could be used as a full K3+P3 display however I am betting that all the information necessary to drive the K3 display is not available to the P3 and not practical to create an interface to handle it.

My two-bits on the matter.

73, phil, K7PEH

> On May 30, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Thom <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I was turning the knob on a K3S at Dayton and thought to myself...this looks like the display on my 10 year old Kenwood TS-570D. Come to think of it maybe Kenwood needs to update the displays on most of there radios too.
>
> 73
>
> Thom KI8W
>
>
>
> On 5/30/2017 17:36, ke9uw wrote:
>> I was wondering if the K3 display could be replaced by an updated display,
>> one that looks like the ones on the newest rigs from Japan. Could it be
>> displayed on the monitor connected to the svga on P3? Just wondering :)
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Chuck, KE9UW
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Display-is-Dated-tp7631264.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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k6mrmagnet

Re: K3 Display is Dated...

And now for something completely different (regarding K3/P3 displays):
Since I rarely look at the radio display when operating, I don’t need/want fancy colors/fonts/graphics. All I need is Info that is easy to read when I need it. Same for the P3. Give me what I need with a minimum of fuss. Also easy to focus on after many hours without sleep.
And please: no touch screens. The last thing I need is a bunch of greasy fingerprints all over the display. And I need my hands to stay on the keyboard(s). Minimal motion and all that stuff.
And the same can be said for P3 mouse point and click. This is radio, not a video game.
And now back to your regular conversation…. ;^)

Ken K6MR

From: Phil Hystad<mailto:[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:18 PM
To: Thom<mailto:[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

Besides my K3 & P3, I also have an Icom IC-7300. The touch color display of the IC-7300 is essentially the same size as the P3 and I think the P3 is a little tiny bit larger of maybe 1/8th inch larger diagonal measure. The information on the IC-7300 is basically the same as the combo of the K3 and P3 although different display options (mostly on the 7300) makes this a dubious comparison.

But, I think that the entire P3 display could be used as a full K3+P3 display however I am betting that all the information necessary to drive the K3 display is not available to the P3 and not practical to create an interface to handle it.

My two-bits on the matter.

73, phil, K7PEH

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Buddy Brannan

Re: K3 Display is Dated...

In reply to this post by Thom

I was turning the knob on a K3 once a couple years ago and thought, hey, what a smooth turning knob. What a nifty radio. I want one. Not in this lifetime, however, though I'm really enjoying my KX3 and K2. Well...OK...enjoying is probably a stretch, since I need to put up an hf antenna again.

But, OK, maybe this is just one of those things that I'll just never understand (there are lots), but if the display gives you the information you need, in some legible manner, why does it need changed? Is there something your TS-570 isn't telling you that you just aren't getting by without knowing? Is change for change's sake what we're asking for, or is there something I'm missing (not at all unlikely)?

"It's a sighted thing, you'd never understand" is a perfectly valid answer here. Probably.

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: [hidden email]

> On May 30, 2017, at 5:59 PM, Thom <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I was turning the knob on a K3S at Dayton and thought to myself...this looks like the display on my 10 year old Kenwood TS-570D. Come to think of it maybe Kenwood needs to update the displays on most of there radios too.
>
> 73
>
> Thom KI8W
>
>
>
> On 5/30/2017 17:36, ke9uw wrote:
>> I was wondering if the K3 display could be replaced by an updated display,
>> one that looks like the ones on the newest rigs from Japan. Could it be
>> displayed on the monitor connected to the svga on P3? Just wondering :)
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Chuck, KE9UW
>> --
>> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Display-is-Dated-tp7631264.html
>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: [hidden email]

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Buddy Brannan

Re: K3 Display is Dated...

In reply to this post by k6mrmagnet

Huh. Maybe it isn't a sighted thing that I just wouldn't understand after all. Or else Ken is an honorary blind guy. ...

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: [hidden email]

> On May 30, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Ken K6MR <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> And now for something completely different (regarding K3/P3 displays):
> Since I rarely look at the radio display when operating, I don’t need/want fancy colors/fonts/graphics. All I need is Info that is easy to read when I need it. Same for the P3. Give me what I need with a minimum of fuss. Also easy to focus on after many hours without sleep.
> And please: no touch screens. The last thing I need is a bunch of greasy fingerprints all over the display. And I need my hands to stay on the keyboard(s). Minimal motion and all that stuff.
> And the same can be said for P3 mouse point and click. This is radio, not a video game.
> And now back to your regular conversation…. ;^)
>
> Ken K6MR
>
> From: Phil Hystad<mailto:[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:18 PM
> To: Thom<mailto:[hidden email]>
> Cc: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...
>
> Besides my K3 & P3, I also have an Icom IC-7300. The touch color display of the IC-7300 is essentially the same size as the P3 and I think the P3 is a little tiny bit larger of maybe 1/8th inch larger diagonal measure. The information on the IC-7300 is basically the same as the combo of the K3 and P3 although different display options (mostly on the 7300) makes this a dubious comparison.
>
> But, I think that the entire P3 display could be used as a full K3+P3 display however I am betting that all the information necessary to drive the K3 display is not available to the P3 and not practical to create an interface to handle it.
>
> My two-bits on the matter.
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
>
>> On May 30, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Thom <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> I was turning the knob on a K3S at Dayton and thought to myself...this looks like the display on my 10 year old Kenwood TS-570D. Come to think of it maybe Kenwood needs to update the displays on most of there radios too.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Thom KI8W
>>
>>
>>
>> On 5/30/2017 17:36, ke9uw wrote:
>>> I was wondering if the K3 display could be replaced by an updated display,
>>> one that looks like the ones on the newest rigs from Japan. Could it be
>>> displayed on the monitor connected to the svga on P3? Just wondering :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----
>>> Chuck, KE9UW
>>> --
>>> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Display-is-Dated-tp7631264.html
>>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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Scott Manthe

Re: K3 Display is Dated...

In reply to this post by ke9uw

Remember that the K3 was designed almost 10 years ago to include being a
nifty QRP/DXpedition rig. I'm guessing the monochrome display saves some
current over a full-color display.

73,
Scott N9AA

On 5/30/17 5:36 PM, ke9uw wrote:

k6mrmagnet

Re: K3 Display is Dated...

In reply to this post by Buddy Brannan

Buddy:

Interesting thought. Could I operate without sight? Not likely. Especially considering my extremely lousy typing skills. But except for double checking what I typed, 90% of operating is hearing (RTTY excepted, of course). I find the less I share my brain power between visual/audio info the better. I don’t do assisted (no distracting band map) and my favorite contests are Sprints. Just pure radio with a little technology to record the results.

Getting a bit OT here so I better quit before Eric finds out….

Ken K6MR

From: Buddy Brannan<mailto:[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:44 PM
To: Ken K6MR<mailto:[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

Huh. Maybe it isn't a sighted thing that I just wouldn't understand after all. Or else Ken is an honorary blind guy. ...

--
Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
Phone: 814-860-3194
Mobile: 814-431-0962
Email: [hidden email]

WB4SON

Re: K3 Display is Dated...

In reply to this post by Buddy Brannan

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, of course, and personally I like the
existing K3/K3s display and its reduced power consumption, and fewer
worries about RFI. The K3 is very power efficient, and that would be lost
with a larger color display.

The K3 is MUCH smaller/lighter than other big desk radios, something else I
like very much, which is part of its appeal for so many DXpeditions.
Those big screen color radios simply don't show up in those environments.

It isn't my company, but I hope Elecraft keeps spending their engineering
resources on functionality rather than bling.

73, Bob, WB4SON

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 6:44 PM, Buddy Brannan <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Huh. Maybe it isn't a sighted thing that I just wouldn't understand after
> all. Or else Ken is an honorary blind guy. ...
>
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: 814-860-3194
> Mobile: 814-431-0962
> Email: [hidden email]
>
>
>
>
> > On May 30, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Ken K6MR <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > And now for something completely different (regarding K3/P3 displays):
> > Since I rarely look at the radio display when operating, I don’t
> need/want fancy colors/fonts/graphics. All I need is Info that is easy to
> read when I need it. Same for the P3. Give me what I need with a minimum
> of fuss. Also easy to focus on after many hours without sleep.
> > And please: no touch screens. The last thing I need is a bunch of
> greasy fingerprints all over the display. And I need my hands to stay on
> the keyboard(s). Minimal motion and all that stuff.
> > And the same can be said for P3 mouse point and click. This is radio,
> not a video game.
> > And now back to your regular conversation…. ;^)
> >
> > Ken K6MR
> >
> > From: Phil Hystad<mailto:[hidden email]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:18 PM
> > To: Thom<mailto:[hidden email]>
> > Cc: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...
> >
> > Besides my K3 & P3, I also have an Icom IC-7300. The touch color
> display of the IC-7300 is essentially the same size as the P3 and I think
> the P3 is a little tiny bit larger of maybe 1/8th inch larger diagonal
> measure. The information on the IC-7300 is basically the same as the combo
> of the K3 and P3 although different display options (mostly on the 7300)
> makes this a dubious comparison.
> >
> > But, I think that the entire P3 display could be used as a full K3+P3
> display however I am betting that all the information necessary to drive
> the K3 display is not available to the P3 and not practical to create an
> interface to handle it.
> >
> > My two-bits on the matter.
> >
> > 73, phil, K7PEH
> >
> >
> >> On May 30, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Thom <[hidden email]> wrote:
> >>
> >> I was turning the knob on a K3S at Dayton and thought to myself...this
> looks like the display on my 10 year old Kenwood TS-570D. Come to think of
> it maybe Kenwood needs to update the displays on most of there radios too.
> >>
> >> 73
> >>
> >> Thom KI8W
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5/30/2017 17:36, ke9uw wrote:
> >>> I was wondering if the K3 display could be replaced by an updated
> display,
> >>> one that looks like the ones on the newest rigs from Japan. Could it be
> >>> displayed on the monitor connected to the svga on P3? Just wondering :)
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> -----
> >>> Chuck, KE9UW
> >>> --
> >>> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.
> nabble.com/K3-Display-is-Dated-tp7631264.html
> >>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> >>> ______________________________________________________________
> >>> Elecraft mailing list
> >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>>
> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >>
> >> ______________________________________________________________
> >> Elecraft mailing list
> >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> >> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >>
> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

73, Bob, WB4SON

NK7Z

Re: K3 Display is Dated...

In reply to this post by ke9uw

My K3 has a new fresh color display... I use a computer and a
Genovation pad to control it... :)

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net

On 05/30/2017 02:36 PM, ke9uw wrote:

alorona

Re: K3 Display is Dated...

In reply to this post by k6mrmagnet

Whenever this thread comes up-- and it has several times before-- I usually point toward the displays on the most advanced commercial aircraft in the skies for comparison. In this context, a pilot needs to know a few (or several) critical pieces of information instantly, and easily, and can't be captivated by eye candy. If your shiny new Kensucom's display looked like this, you probably wouldn't buy it:

http://www.boeing.com/commercial/737max/news/new-flight-deck-displays.page (watch closely at the 0:43 mark)

A serious ham operator in a DXpedition or major contest effort may have more than a few things in common with a pilot processing all the inputs coming at him from many sources. Perhaps we should be asking, "When will Icom de-clutter it's display to be more like the K3's?"

As for touch screens, a few minutes ago my iPhone wouldn't respond to my finger, no matter what I did, and I was locked out. No thanks... I don't want my pilot (or my 160 meter contest) defeated by a little bit of perspiration or dryness at a crucial moment.

Al W6LX
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kstover

Re: K3 Display is Dated...

In reply to this post by Buddy Brannan

I have low vision.

The absolute worst thing you could do is to change the K3S display.
I need high contrast either a black background and light text or a light
background and dark text. The K3S's background is light yellow and it
has black text.

Color displays sure are pretty but normal size text and characters wash
out. I have special software on this computer that magnifies the screen
so I can read it. I also run a high contrast theme.

On 5/30/2017 5:44 PM, Buddy Brannan wrote:

> Huh. Maybe it isn't a sighted thing that I just wouldn't understand after all. Or else Ken is an honorary blind guy. ...
>
> --
> Buddy Brannan, KB5ELV - Erie, PA
> Phone: 814-860-3194
> Mobile: 814-431-0962
> Email: [hidden email]
>
>
>
>
>> On May 30, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Ken K6MR <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> And now for something completely different (regarding K3/P3 displays):
>> Since I rarely look at the radio display when operating, I don’t need/want fancy colors/fonts/graphics. All I need is Info that is easy to read when I need it. Same for the P3. Give me what I need with a minimum of fuss. Also easy to focus on after many hours without sleep.
>> And please: no touch screens. The last thing I need is a bunch of greasy fingerprints all over the display. And I need my hands to stay on the keyboard(s). Minimal motion and all that stuff.
>> And the same can be said for P3 mouse point and click. This is radio, not a video game.
>> And now back to your regular conversation…. ;^)
>>
>> Ken K6MR
>>
>> From: Phil Hystad<mailto:[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:18 PM
>> To: Thom<mailto:[hidden email]>
>> Cc: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...
>>
>> Besides my K3 & P3, I also have an Icom IC-7300. The touch color display of the IC-7300 is essentially the same size as the P3 and I think the P3 is a little tiny bit larger of maybe 1/8th inch larger diagonal measure. The information on the IC-7300 is basically the same as the combo of the K3 and P3 although different display options (mostly on the 7300) makes this a dubious comparison.
>>
>> But, I think that the entire P3 display could be used as a full K3+P3 display however I am betting that all the information necessary to drive the K3 display is not available to the P3 and not practical to create an interface to handle it.
>>
>> My two-bits on the matter.
>>
>> 73, phil, K7PEH
>>
>>
>>> On May 30, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Thom <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>> I was turning the knob on a K3S at Dayton and thought to myself...this looks like the display on my 10 year old Kenwood TS-570D. Come to think of it maybe Kenwood needs to update the displays on most of there radios too.
>>>
>>> 73
>>>
>>> Thom KI8W
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 5/30/2017 17:36, ke9uw wrote:
>>>> I was wondering if the K3 display could be replaced by an updated display,
>>>> one that looks like the ones on the newest rigs from Japan. Could it be
>>>> displayed on the monitor connected to the svga on P3? Just wondering :)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----
>>>> Chuck, KE9UW
>>>> --
>>>> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Display-is-Dated-tp7631264.html
>>>> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
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--
R. Kevin Stover AC0H
FISTS #11993
SKCC #215
NAQCC #3441
ARRL
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Roger Meadows

Re: K3 Display is Dated...

In reply to this post by k6mrmagnet

When I worked in industrial automation the graphics on the control stations displays were getting fancier and fancier. The fancier they got, the more cluttered than got. Then, the industry as a whole started noting that more accidents were happening and missed alarms. They, because the displays were to cutsie.

What then happened over the next few years and is standard now is very plain graphics and displays so information does not get lost in the clutter.

Thats how I see the displays on the new rigs, cluttered. I like the KX3 display because it is strait to the point. The other great thing is I can go from a KX3 to a KX3 to a K3(s) and know exactly where to find what I’m looking for on the display.

I’d personally keep it the way it is and use the P3/PX3 for the additional information.

Roger
AE4RM

On May 30, 2017, at 6:37 PM, Ken K6MR <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

And now for something completely different (regarding K3/P3 displays):
Since I rarely look at the radio display when operating, I don’t need/want fancy colors/fonts/graphics. All I need is Info that is easy to read when I need it. Same for the P3. Give me what I need with a minimum of fuss. Also easy to focus on after many hours without sleep.
And please: no touch screens. The last thing I need is a bunch of greasy fingerprints all over the display. And I need my hands to stay on the keyboard(s). Minimal motion and all that stuff.
And the same can be said for P3 mouse point and click. This is radio, not a video game.
And now back to your regular conversation…. ;^)

Ken K6MR

From: Phil Hystad<mailto:[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 3:18 PM
To: Thom<mailto:[hidden email]>
Cc: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]><mailto:[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

Besides my K3 & P3, I also have an Icom IC-7300. The touch color display of the IC-7300 is essentially the same size as the P3 and I think the P3 is a little tiny bit larger of maybe 1/8th inch larger diagonal measure. The information on the IC-7300 is basically the same as the combo of the K3 and P3 although different display options (mostly on the 7300) makes this a dubious comparison.

But, I think that the entire P3 display could be used as a full K3+P3 display however I am betting that all the information necessary to drive the K3 display is not available to the P3 and not practical to create an interface to handle it.

My two-bits on the matter.

73, phil, K7PEH

On May 30, 2017, at 2:59 PM, Thom <[hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:

I was turning the knob on a K3S at Dayton and thought to myself...this looks like the display on my 10 year old Kenwood TS-570D. Come to think of it maybe Kenwood needs to update the displays on most of there radios too.

73

Thom KI8W

On 5/30/2017 17:36, ke9uw wrote:
I was wondering if the K3 display could be replaced by an updated display,
one that looks like the ones on the newest rigs from Japan. Could it be
displayed on the monitor connected to the svga on P3? Just wondering :)

-----
Chuck, KE9UW
--
View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Display-is-Dated-tp7631264.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com<http://Nabble.com>.
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KENT TRIMBLE

Re: K3 Display is Dated...

One compromise, undoubtedly costly, would be a customisable display like upper-end cars are now wearing. Users could place whatever indicators they wanted, wherever they wanted, in whatever combination they wanted.

But I like the Elecraft displays just as they are, for all the reasons others have enumerated, especially the commonality among the various rigs.

Kent K9ZTV
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Don Wilhelm

Re: K3 Display is Dated...

In reply to this post by Roger Meadows

I have to agree, "the kiss principle" Keep is simple stupid - works
every time.
While 'glitsy' displays are pretty to watch, they often do not convey
relevant information, or that information is buried in the 'glitz' and
not easily recognized at a glance.

The K3, KX3, KX2 displays show the VFO frequency as the predominate
display with the VFO B as a slightly lesser predominance. Other
functions are indicated to tell you what is going on. Everything needed
is there.

I have to contrast that to some of the displays I see on my tablet. I
have to hunt around the display to find the item of interest.

Touchscreen - no thanks - I would need a stylus and not all stylus
touches produce the desired action (if my tablet is any example). That
uncertainty is not something I need in a radio.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/30/2017 8:08 PM, Roger Meadows wrote:
> When I worked in industrial automation the graphics on the control stations displays were getting fancier and fancier. The fancier they got, the more cluttered than got. Then, the industry as a whole started noting that more accidents were happening and missed alarms. They, because the displays were to cutsie.
>
> What then happened over the next few years and is standard now is very plain graphics and displays so information does not get lost in the clutter.
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k6mrmagnet

Re: K3 Display is Dated...

In reply to this post by KENT TRIMBLE

Not costly at all. You likely already have it on your desk. Build whatever fancy screen you want and drive the radio through the control port. Make it touch screen if you like. Big, small, color, whatever you want. The power of software.

I remember one of the first SDR radio boards had an interface that let you move the controls around on the screen. Pretty much build any front panel layout you wanted.

Ken K6MR

From: K9ZTV<mailto:[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 5:25 PM
To: [hidden email]<mailto:[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Display is Dated...

One compromise, undoubtedly costly, would be a customisable display like upper-end cars are now wearing. Users could place whatever indicators they wanted, wherever they wanted, in whatever combination they wanted.

But I like the Elecraft displays just as they are, for all the reasons others have enumerated, especially the commonality among the various rigs.

Kent K9ZTV
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Kevin - K4VD

Re: K3 Display is Dated...

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

Keep it simple? Like a crystal radio?

On my KX3 I want a full heads-up display. It should have virtual
reality goggles tied to Google Earth so I can fly to your
neighborhood, check out your antenna farm and make recommendations for
improvements. I want to visualize the path my radio waves take to get
to the DX I want and be able to tweak the ionosphere for maximum S/N
at the distant end. Ideally I should have control of the DX station's
rotator. Every time I make contact with someone I want to see a 3D
starfield fly by to give me the impression of actually going
somewhere. And I want it all done in fluorescent orange and black.

Actually, it's kind of nice to get a refresh every so often. The thing
is, if there were some sort of front panel updates it really wouldn't
affect all those who currently have a radio, right? Not like our radio
is going to morph over night or anything.

73,
Kev K4VD

On Tue, May 30, 2017 at 8:26 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I have to agree, "the kiss principle" Keep is simple stupid - works every
> time.
> While 'glitsy' displays are pretty to watch, they often do not convey
> relevant information, or that information is buried in the 'glitz' and not
> easily recognized at a glance.
>
> The K3, KX3, KX2 displays show the VFO frequency as the predominate display
> with the VFO B as a slightly lesser predominance. Other functions are
> indicated to tell you what is going on. Everything needed is there.
>
> I have to contrast that to some of the displays I see on my tablet. I have
> to hunt around the display to find the item of interest.
>
> Touchscreen - no thanks - I would need a stylus and not all stylus touches
> produce the desired action (if my tablet is any example). That uncertainty
> is not something I need in a radio.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 5/30/2017 8:08 PM, Roger Meadows wrote:
>>
>> When I worked in industrial automation the graphics on the control
>> stations displays were getting fancier and fancier. The fancier they got,
>> the more cluttered than got. Then, the industry as a whole started noting
>> that more accidents were happening and missed alarms. They, because the
>> displays were to cutsie.
>>
>> What then happened over the next few years and is standard now is very
>> plain graphics and displays so information does not get lost in the clutter.
>
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Don Wilhelm

Re: K3 Display is Dated...

In reply to this post by KENT TRIMBLE

Kent,

While that is a good feature for autos, it does take some time and
trouble to set up as the user desires.

I did recently purchase an upper-end car and after over a month I have
not done too much display customization. The simple things are the most
important to me. Other stuff is just a bit of glitz along with
resulting clutter of the displays.

Sometimes too much information for the task at hand is a distraction.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 5/30/2017 8:24 PM, K9ZTV wrote:
> One compromise, undoubtedly costly, would be a customisable display like upper-end cars are now wearing. Users could place whatever indicators they wanted, wherever they wanted, in whatever combination they wanted.
>
> But I like the Elecraft displays just as they are, for all the reasons others have enumerated, especially the commonality among the various rigs.
>
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briancom

Re: K3 Display is Dated...

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm

Don,

Agree. However, there is a need to update the "displays" for functions
that were shoe horned into the K3 well after the display was cast in
concrete.

Things like a flashing decimal point. What the heck does that mean?
There are about a dozen such "non-intuitive" displays which could
benefit from some more obvious icon.

It would also be nice if the DATA display would actually tell us which
K3 data mode is being used.

The chief beneficiaries would be people who use the K3 stand alone with
no computer. Logging programs generally solve the above problems.

73 de Brian/K3KO

On 5/31/2017 0:26 AM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> I have to agree, "the kiss principle" Keep is simple stupid - works
> every time.
> While 'glitsy' displays are pretty to watch, they often do not convey
> relevant information, or that information is buried in the 'glitz' and
> not easily recognized at a glance.
>
> The K3, KX3, KX2 displays show the VFO frequency as the predominate
> display with the VFO B as a slightly lesser predominance. Other
> functions are indicated to tell you what is going on. Everything needed
> is there.
>
> I have to contrast that to some of the displays I see on my tablet. I
> have to hunt around the display to find the item of interest.
>
> Touchscreen - no thanks - I would need a stylus and not all stylus
> touches produce the desired action (if my tablet is any example). That
> uncertainty is not something I need in a radio.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 5/30/2017 8:08 PM, Roger Meadows wrote:
>> When I worked in industrial automation the graphics on the control
>> stations displays were getting fancier and fancier. The fancier they
>> got, the more cluttered than got. Then, the industry as a whole
>> started noting that more accidents were happening and missed alarms.
>> They, because the displays were to cutsie.
>>
>> What then happened over the next few years and is standard now is very
>> plain graphics and displays so information does not get lost in the
>> clutter.
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Luis V Romero (mobile)

Re: K3 Display is Dated...

In reply to this post by ke9uw

I completely agree with Ken K6MR!

I rarely, if ever, touch the radio. I sometimes twirl the main VFO knobs,
but frankly, out of habit.

90% of my interface is via the computer keyboard (N1MMLogger +. Oh, yes, I'm
one of those "Durn Contesters!").

But there are very interesting things on the horizon.

I had a very long talk with Tom Wagner, N1MM at the Dayton Contest Suite
Friday night while Spurious Emissions played in the other room. He showed
me his new Logger feature: I call it "Active Bandmap". It's a bandmap
window that integrates live information from an Icom 7300 spectrum display
and the spotting network data and displays it, dynamically, right on the
logger screen. It integrates spots, signal strength and labels the pips
with the callsign from spot data.

I have a friend with a 7300 and will start playing with this feature next
week (I have a repeater to install this week <sigh>).

This, folks, is what I attempt to do on my P3 display (I do not have the VGA
option, it doesn't do much for me). Marker A. Twist the P3 knob. Drop Marker
A on a pip. Push the knob in. Call the station. Repeat. But don't do it as
much as I want to as it takes my hands off the keyboard.

I have *ALWAYS* wanted to be able to do this right on the N1MMLogger screen,
under N1MMLogger *KEYBOARD* control (Shift Up Arrow/Shift Down Arrow. I'm
not much of a mouser.). Tom has implemented the functionality EXACTLY as I
envisioned it. But it currently works only on an Icom 7300 and, in the
future, other similar Icom transceivers. (Yes, I know Flex rigs can do this:
No I don't think their receivers and Maestro's touch screen workflow are not
up to the challenge. yet.)

I am aware that details towards the implementation of this functionality has
been made known to Elecraft. Tom basically has developed an "API" that
defines how to format serial data to create a similar display from any
modern Panadaptor display equipped transceiver with serial or "faux" serial
over USB communications capability.

I would recommend that the contest ops among us (and others who like this
kind of stuff) investigate this functionality in N1MMLogger + and see how it
may improve your Search and Pounce workflow efficiency.

I also *strongly* encourage Wayne and Eric and the Elecraft Product Managers
to start down the road of implementing this functionality before
Icom/Somebody else comes out with a radio that challenges K3's performance
capability.

73

Lu Romero - W4LT
Tampa, FL

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