K3: Do you "Juice" your K3?
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Does anyone "juice" their K3 bu turning up the PS voltage to 15 volts or so. I do that with my K2/10 to get some more power out. I was wondering if that is a practice with the K3 which I am not doing. Lee - K0WA The New Kansas QSO Party - August 29, Sat 9am-9pm and August 30 Sun 9am-3pm CDT In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I don't think we even want to go here, Eric, PLEASE stop this thread immediately!!!!
----- Original Message ----- From: Lee Buller To: Elecraft Reflector Sent: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 17:43:24 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Do you "Juice" your K3? Does anyone "juice" their K3 bu turning up the PS voltage to 15 volts or so. I do that with my K2/10 to get some more power out. I was wondering if that is a practice with the K3 which I am not doing. Lee - K0WA The New Kansas QSO Party - August 29, Sat 9am-9pm and August 30 Sun 9am-3pm CDT In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by k0wa@swbell.net
Lee, forgive me if I'm being dumb, but with voltage regulation etc.
that shouldn't make any difference, should it? I no I wouldn't do it. 73 de M0XDF, K3 #174 -- One glance at a book and you hear the voice of another person, perhaps someone dead for 1,000 years. To read is to voyage through time. -Carl Sagan, astronomer and writer (1934-1996) On 11 Mar 2009, at 17:43, Lee Buller wrote: > > Does anyone "juice" their K3 bu turning up the PS voltage to 15 > volts or so. I do that with my K2/10 to get some more power out. I > was wondering if that is a practice with the K3 which I am not doing. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3: Do you "Juice" your K3?
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In reply to this post by W8ZN
-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] I don't think we even want to go here, Eric, PLEASE stop this thread immediately!!!! ------------------------- Why? I think it is an interesting question. I suspect that increasing the input voltage will either have no effect or will cause harm if done too much but would like to hear the inputs from the experts. - Keith N1AS - - K3 711 - ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I have a small mountain of data with efficiency and transmitted
intermodulation versus supply voltage for my K3, but have yet to finish analyzing it. For the most part, higher voltage = better transmitted IMD, but the lower the overall DC efficiency (RF watts out / DC watts in). I've not desired to tempt fate by running the tests above 15.0V, however, and I don't recommend exceeding 15.0V under any circumstances. Most of the benefit of higher voltage operation can be achieved in the 13.8 to 14.2 V range, as measured at the K3's DC input connector. Remote voltage sensing to obviate the cable drop is quite useful here, *if one knows how to properly use it*. If the power supply is not equipped with an over-voltage trip, however, a failure in the remote voltage sensing cable could lead the power supply to put out sufficient voltage to damage the K3. Jack K8ZOA Darwin, Keith wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > > I don't think we even want to go here, Eric, PLEASE stop this thread > immediately!!!! > > ------------------------- > > Why? I think it is an interesting question. I suspect that increasing > the input voltage will either have no effect or will cause harm if done > too much but would like to hear the inputs from the experts. > > - Keith N1AS - > - K3 711 - > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3: Do you "Juice" your K3?
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In reply to this post by W8ZN
I run my K3 at 80 Watts, unless I run less. At 80 Watts vrs 100 Watts I am down 0.97 dB, That loss will not be noticed on an S meter, or by the ear of the op on the other end. 73, Ty, W1TF K3 #696 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by k0wa@swbell.net
I am very interested in this topic!!!
I DO juice my KX1. I run it at 14.2 VDC when at home and it makes quite big difference in the output power! Of course, in the field I use a 12 VDC battery. I have almost never used the internal battery setup with a nominal 9 VDC. I am a big fan of more power when needed. I was stuck at 85 DXCC entities until I got an Ameritron 811-H amp from eBay. I now have 94 confirmed and 17 pending entities. BTW, I sold my legal limit amp to buy my K3, so I do understand the joy of barefoot operations with a good rig and of course I have had my KX1 for years now. Jack, AE6GC, K3-100 Kit, KX1 Kit Fully Loaded (including the SMD CW TUNING INDICATOR) -----Original Message----- snip........ Does anyone "juice" their K3 bu turning up the PS voltage to 15 volts or so. I do that with my K2/10 to get some more power out. I was wondering if that is a practice with the K3 which I am not doing. Lee - K0WA snip.................. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3: Do you "Juice" your K3? (or KX1)
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Jack,
I am glad to hear that you have found success with that, BUT --- Be careful with "juicing" the KX1. Yes, the power output will increase with DC voltage, but running the KX1 at greater than 4 watts can cause problems. The peak RF voltage must be less than the breakover voltage for the zener, and the capacitors in the Low Pass Filter are rated at 50 volts. The RF voltage will be greatest on C46 and C48. While the RF voltages may be under control when feeding a 50 ohm antenna load, the RF Voltages increase substantially as the SWR increases. That is one of the consequences of a compact design. If there were greater physical space, higher voltage rated capacitors could be used and this would not be a concern. Note that the same thing applies to installing the "Power Mod" on the KX1. If the KX1 already can achieve 4 watts output, the power mod should not be applied. 73, Don W3FPR Jack Regan wrote: > I am very interested in this topic!!! > > I DO juice my KX1. I run it at 14.2 VDC when at home and it makes quite big > difference in the output power! Of course, in the field I use a 12 VDC > battery. I have almost never used the internal battery setup with a nominal > 9 VDC. > > I am a big fan of more power when needed. I was stuck at 85 DXCC entities > until I got an Ameritron 811-H amp from eBay. I now have 94 confirmed and 17 > pending entities. > > BTW, I sold my legal limit amp to buy my K3, so I do understand the joy of > barefoot operations with a good rig and of course I have had my KX1 for > years now. > > Jack, AE6GC, K3-100 Kit, KX1 Kit Fully Loaded (including the SMD CW TUNING > INDICATOR) > > -----Original Message----- > snip........ > > Does anyone "juice" their K3 bu turning up the PS voltage to 15 volts or > so. I do that with my K2/10 to get some more power out. I was wondering if > that is a practice with the K3 which I am not doing. > > Lee - K0WA > > snip.................. > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.0.237 / Virus Database: 270.11.9/1993 - Release Date: 03/10/09 07:19:00 > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Jack
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Re: K3: Do you "Juice" your K3?
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In reply to this post by Jack Smith-6
During the NAQP RTTY, at one point I was calling a solid
stream of CQ's at 100 watts output on RTTY and not getting any replies. I was watching the PA Temp, and it climbed up to 65C and looked like it wanted to keep rising pretty quickly. I think hi temp shutdown is at 84C. I backed off on my CQ's and used the other radio for a while. I had the fan speed locked on step 4. All of this was at 13.8VDC. With any kind of heavy duty usage, I don't think cranking up the voltage is a good idea. A better idea is to buy an AL-1500 or similar low drive amp, which will give you 1500 watts out with 50 watts of drive. NOW, we are talking "juice." ;) Dave Hachadorian, K6LL Yuma, AZ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I believe the way ALC works in the rig, unless you tell it you want more, it wouldn't do it even if you increased the capability. And it is the software that tells it how much to put out, so unless you change the software so it will go above 120w it won't. Unlike, say a TS850 where you just turn the ALC pot up on the inside. Higher voltage may lower the IMD but at what cost? What does it do to the MTBF of all the components that are rated say at 16v.
I would like to hear Wayne's thoughts as a designer on this. Terry ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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You know, I tried to juice my K3, but my Jack Lelanne Juicer just broke down. Come on people, this is not CB! 73 Alan W1HYV > Date: Wed, 11 Mar 2009 20:08:39 +0000 > From: [hidden email] > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Do you "Juice" your K3? > > I believe the way ALC works in the rig, unless you tell it you want more, it wouldn't do it even if you increased the capability. And it is the software that tells it how much to put out, so unless you change the software so it will go above 120w it won't. Unlike, say a TS850 where you just turn the ALC pot up on the inside. Higher voltage may lower the IMD but at what cost? What does it do to the MTBF of all the components that are rated say at 16v. > > I would like to hear Wayne's thoughts as a designer on this. > > Terry > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html _________________________________________________________________ Windows Live™: Life without walls. http://windowslive.com/explore?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_allup_1a_explore_032009 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3: Do you "Juice" your K3?
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In reply to this post by Darwin, Keith
You don't have to look too far back in the reflector to see that a couple of regulars who would certainly qualify in my book as "experts" have recommended turning the volts up to 14.5V or so. The benefit is not to get any more power - any extra power you did get would not make any noticeable difference at the receiving end, bearing in mind that even doubling the power would only get you half an S-point - but to get improved linearity and a cleaner signal.
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
Re: K3: Do you "Juice" your K3?
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In reply to this post by Dave Hachadorian
> During the NAQP RTTY, at one point I was calling a solid
> stream of CQ's at 100 watts output on RTTY and not getting > any replies. I was watching the PA Temp, and it climbed up to > 65C and looked like it wanted to keep rising pretty quickly. > I think hi temp shutdown is at 84C. I backed off on my CQ's > and used the other radio for a while. I had the fan speed > locked on step 4. All of this was at 13.8VDC. With any kind > of heavy duty usage, I don't think cranking up the voltage is > a good idea. A better idea is to buy an AL-1500 or similar > low drive amp, which will give you 1500 watts out with 50 > watts of drive. NOW, we are talking "juice." ;) This is interesting. I run 100 watts output on RTTY, CQing and working stations at a continual flow, and the fans hardly run at all. The PA temperature stays down. I wonder if there is something unique going on with your K3(s)? One user found a fan wire impeding the blades of one of his fans and even on CW, he had the same experience described above. Ed - W0YK ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3: Do you "Juice" your K3?
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In reply to this post by AC7AC
It all depends upon the circumstances. When I was trying to decide whether the additional 2 db gain from a larger yagi was worth the additional cost (yes, I know about the additional benefits of a tighter pattern), I generated some audio recordings comprised of CW sent from CW Player (freeware by F6DQM) mixed with band noise from 80m. I varied the CW in 1 db increments centered around the level of the band noise and tried to decide which differences were discernible. I had to work pretty hard to hear a difference of one db, and then only right at the noise level. Two db was noticeable, and three db stood out. All of this is valid only down near the noise level, of course ... at even ten db above the noise level these small differences are pretty difficult to detect. So if you're trying to DX on 160m or 80m, or trying to pull out a really weak caller on 15m or 20m just before the band folds in a contest, 2 db could very well be worthwhile. That being said, cranking up the voltage on a K3 isn't the way to get it. 73, Dave AB7E Ron D'Eau Claire wrote: > > I've never found any value in increasing power unless I can go up at least 6 > dB - multiply my output power by at least 4 times. > > To most ears (and many meters), that's about 1 "S" unit. > > Ron AC7AC > > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Ed Muns, W0YK
If you look at the DC current, you'll find that lower supply voltage
for modes such as RTTY and CW are considerably more efficient for the K3. My measurements suggest that for a given output power, the K3 is more or less a constant current load. At 100 watts, the current is around 18A, so the difference in heat dissipation within the K3 between a supply voltage of, say 12.8V and 14.0V is 22 watts, all for the same RF output. As I've said before there are reasons on SSB mode not to run with low supply voltages, but on single tone modes, such as RTTY or CW the K3 will have less heat dissipation with lower supply voltages than higher ones. http://www.cliftonlaboratories.com/elecraft_k3_efficiency.htm has some of my efficiency measurements. Jack Ed Muns wrote: >> During the NAQP RTTY, at one point I was calling a solid >> stream of CQ's at 100 watts output on RTTY and not getting >> any replies. I was watching the PA Temp, and it climbed up to >> 65C and looked like it wanted to keep rising pretty quickly. >> I think hi temp shutdown is at 84C. I backed off on my CQ's >> and used the other radio for a while. I had the fan speed >> locked on step 4. All of this was at 13.8VDC. With any kind >> of heavy duty usage, I don't think cranking up the voltage is >> a good idea. A better idea is to buy an AL-1500 or similar >> low drive amp, which will give you 1500 watts out with 50 >> watts of drive. NOW, we are talking "juice." ;) >> > > This is interesting. I run 100 watts output on RTTY, CQing and working > stations at a continual flow, and the fans hardly run at all. The PA > temperature stays down. I wonder if there is something unique going on with > your K3(s)? One user found a fan wire impeding the blades of one of his > fans and even on CW, he had the same experience described above. > > Ed - W0YK > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Ed Muns, W0YK
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In reply to this post by Ed Muns, W0YK
That user would be me! :-) I strongly suspect Dave has the same problem I did. The longer fan wire (from the left fan viewed from the rear) was binding the right fan. I believe this happened when I did the 12V sense mod. I dropped the rear fan assembly as the directions indicated and then replaced the assembly. When doing this it's possible for the longer fan wire to block the right fan and you cannot tell unless you take the top cover off to physically inspect or test the fans to make sure both are turning. It's a credit to Elecraft's conservative design that heavy operation in the ARRL DX CW with only one fan turning was not sufficient to damage my KPA3. Now PA TEMP seldom climbs much above 40C whereas it was resetting at ~80C with only one fan running. Be sure to visually check that BOTH fans are turning. I was fooled because it felt to my wet finger held to the rear panel that both were turning when actually only one was. Use the PA FN1-4 tests in the menu and make sure both are actually turning. 73, Bill |
Re: K3: Do you "Juice" your K3?
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In reply to this post by Ed Muns, W0YK
Ed Muns wrote: >> During the NAQP RTTY, at one point I was calling a solid >> stream of CQ's at 100 watts output on RTTY and not getting >> any replies. I was watching the PA Temp, and it climbed up to >> 65C and looked like it wanted to keep rising pretty quickly. >> I think hi temp shutdown is at 84C. I backed off on my CQ's >> and used the other radio for a while. I had the fan speed >> locked on step 4. All of this was at 13.8VDC. With any kind >> of heavy duty usage, I don't think cranking up the voltage is >> a good idea. A better idea is to buy an AL-1500 or similar >> low drive amp, which will give you 1500 watts out with 50 >> watts of drive. NOW, we are talking "juice." ;) > > This is interesting. I run 100 watts output on RTTY, CQing and working > stations at a continual flow, and the fans hardly run at all. The PA > temperature stays down. I wonder if there is something unique going on with > your K3(s)? One user found a fan wire impeding the blades of one of his > fans and even on CW, he had the same experience described above. Ditto - I ran two K3s at 100W for the NAQP RTTY contest a couple of weeks ago, and was (pleasantly) surprised by how cool they remained. ~Iain / N6ML ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Jack
I also am quite interested in learning what the maximum recommended supply voltage
is for the K3. I recall some discussion indicating that it was advisable to have higher voltage rather than lower, but I don't recall what the maximum was. I have just ordered a 15 VDC 100A switching power supply (that can be adjusted down to 13.5 VDC) with the intent of running one or more solid state amps on it. If the K3 can safely be used on this power supply, I would like to consolidate supplies and also use it to power the K3. VY 73, Lance > > -----Original Message----- > snip........ > > Does anyone "juice" their K3 bu turning up the PS voltage to 15 volts or > so. I do that with my K2/10 to get some more power out. I was wondering if > that is a practice with the K3 which I am not doing. > > Lee - K0WA > > snip.................. > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > -- Lance Collister, W7GJ (ex: WN3GPL, WA3GPL, WA1JXN, WA1JXN/C6A, ZF2OC/ZF8) P.O. Box 73 Frenchtown, MT 59834 USA QTH: DN27UB TEL: (406) 626-5728 URL: http://www.bigskyspaces.com/w7gj 2m DXCC #11, 6m DXCC #815 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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