K3 - Ergonomics

[Phil Hystad-3]

On Apr 3, 2014, at 11:19 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> > But, assume SAME K3 functionality.
>
> I'm not so sure *SAME* functionality is a fair question for the next
> generation top of the line transceiver.
>


No, it isn't a fair question but why be fair when you can ask anything.

But, I am now done with this topic as my interest in the new KX3
external accessory has grabbed all of my Elecraft attention bandwidth.


73, phil, K7PEH

> Among other things, the headphone amplifier really needs to be a bit
> more stout than 100 mW - 500 mW if not 1 watt is more appropriate even
> if the design includes some build out resistors to limit SPL.  The
> speaker amplifier could certainly be more robust as well - 1.5 W per
> channel doe not cut it in all cases - 5 or 10 W per channel is more
> appropriate so the amplifier is not being run to it ragged edge and
> possibly distortion under normal operation.
>
> I've already listed several of the dual function controls that get
> a lot of workout.  One can also add APF which is the *second* function
> on a little used XFIL button and a bank of five to eight PF buttons to
> those things that would be highly desirable.
>
> On the inside - consider a better second mixer than the 612 to improve
> window IMD.   Others have already mentioned putting the notch filters
> *inside* the AGC loop.  24 or 48 volt finals would move transmit IMD
> from the barely adequate low -30 dB range to around -40 dB as well as
> offer 200 W capability for those who don't use an external amplifier.
> Perhaps the synthesizer handling could be improved to allow transmit on
> either VFO with the  main and subreceiver on different bands.  Finally,
> consider a controller with more capability and DSP predistortion to
> really make the transmit IMD shine.
>
> None of this is difficult - nor even ground breaking technology - but
> it would significantly improve a transceiver designed for home station
> use rather than cripple an otherwise fine design by limiting size and
> current consumptions.   I would guess the differential cost would be
> less than $800 - and would be well worth it, IMO.
>
> 73,
>
>   ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 4/3/2014 1:42 PM, Phil Hystad wrote:
>> My 2-bits:  |u>  and |d>
>>
>> OK, what if Elecraft took the K3 and did a major ergonomic redesign of the radio and called it the K3-Ergo.  It could be twice as large, many single function buttons and dials and maybe even a more expanded multicolor LCD screen.  But, assume SAME K3 functionality.
>>
>> How much more would this cost, maybe $300, $500, or maybe $750 more?
>>
>> As for me and my ham shack -- leave the ergonomics alone, they are fine by me.  I like the K3 for what it is, not what people think it should be.  When the Elecraft bunch come out with a new radio, I will consider its benefits and features but look-and-feel will not be on top of the list.  But, then, I like the approach that Wayne and Eric and other other designers take on the radios and other equipment.
>>
>> 73, phil, K7PEH
>>
>> On Apr 3, 2014, at 10:29 AM, Wes (N7WS) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> Amen
>>>
>>> On 4/3/2014 6:49 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What is so bad about how the K3 is designed (ergonomics)? This is
>>>>> not the first time I have seen this said. I do not find it
>>>>> particularly challenging to use the panel controls or the menus -
>>>>> but, maybe that's just me. Is it the lack of curves and swirls or
>>>>> plastic molding? I go for functionality of design - not eye candy.
>>>>
>>>> The issue is not "lack of curves and swirls or plastic molding" ...
>>>> I've given up counting the number of times the radio has changed
>>>> bands when I meant to change modes or vice versa or the number of
>>>> times I've engaged RIT when I wanted to turn off the speaker, the
>>>> number of times I've reset VFO B when I wanted to engage split, or
>>>> the number of times I've linked VFOs when I wanted to turn on the
>>>> KRX-3.  These are the problems with the limited number of tightly
>>>> packed, dual function controls and looking the same.
>>>>
>>>> While I certainly appreciate the performance of the K3 - it is on
>>>> my operating bench whilst the MK V and FT-2000 gather dust in the
>>>> closet - having fewer dual function controls and band/mode controls
>>>> that are physically separated and very different in design *IS* a
>>>> major improvement in ergonomics.  If I had but one wish it would
>>>> be that Elecraft would give up on the thought that every radio
>>>> must be capable of operating from a backpack on a small 12V battery
>>>> and would produce a real home station radio with 24 or 48 V finals
>>>> and a large front panel supporting separate band and mode buttons.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>>
>>>>   ... Joe, W4TV
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 4/3/2014 6:19 AM, Bill W2BLC wrote:
>>>>> In a post speaking to the Sherwood chart, it was said, "........too many
>>>>> people jump on one number to rate (rank) equipment and totally disregard
>>>>> things like ergonomics (If they didn't the K3 would be at the bottom of
>>>>> the list)."
>>>>>
>>>>> What is so bad about how the K3 is designed (ergonomics)? This is not
>>>>> the first time I have seen this said. I do not find it particularly
>>>>> challenging to use the panel controls or the menus - but, maybe that's
>>>>> just me. Is it the lack of curves and swirls or plastic molding? I go
>>>>> for functionality of design - not eye candy.
>>>>>
>>>>> The only thing I did to improve the controls on my K3 was to add a
>>>>> TenTec tire to the main VFO knob - it increases the diameter slightly
>>>>> and has a nicer feel to it than hard plastic.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bill K-Line
>>>
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[Gary Smith-2]

Remember in "Oh God" when George Burns as God admitted to Denver that
he made a mistake and made the Avocado seed too large? I never forgot
that part of the movie. When it comes to the K3, my only real
ergonomics complaint the opposite of that seed problem, its that the
VFO B knob is just too small. It makes it more difficult to fine tune
a QRX transmit point and a larger knob would be more functional to
me. Otherwise I have no issues with the ergonomics of the K3.

73,
Gary
Ka1j

> In a post speaking to the Sherwood chart, it was said, "........too many
> people jump on one number to rate (rank) equipment and totally disregard
> things like ergonomics (If they didn't the K3 would be at the bottom of
> the list)."
>
> What is so bad about how the K3 is designed (ergonomics)? This is not
> the first time I have seen this said. I do not find it particularly
> challenging to use the panel controls or the menus - but, maybe that's
> just me. Is it the lack of curves and swirls or plastic molding? I go
> for functionality of design - not eye candy.
>
> The only thing I did to improve the controls on my K3 was to add a
> TenTec tire to the main VFO knob - it increases the diameter slightly
> and has a nicer feel to it than hard plastic.
>
> Bill K-Line

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[w0mu]

Odd I am 6'2 with big hands and I thought I would dislike the small
size.  I don't.  I am thrilled with it especially for travel!

I would not mind a K3 front panel on steroids for the home shack with
more buttons.  Sometimes the dual mode buttons can be confusing.

The K3 could be more new operator friendly.  Once you know the rig,
making changes makes sense.  Guest ops have some issues initially with
the vast amount of customization that can go on.

I am surprised that the screws issue is still being mentioned.  I was
sent new SS screws for my rigs and amp after getting back from J6 and
noticing the rust issue.  If you don't bring these issues up to Elecraft
there is no way they are going to be able to help you.

We sell on eBay with 100 percent 14 day money back guarantee and people
will give bad feedback and never ever talk to us about the issue or give
us a chance to fix the problem.


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[HP]

When I go split and try to listen to the sub rx audio - 9 times out of 10
its dead . If I just cycle power - its there and will stay there and N1MM
will enable/disable sub rx as well.

What did I miss  ?

Hank K7HP

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[Jorge Diez - CX6VM-2]

Hi Hank

Check what antenna are you using in the SUB RX, if you don´t have a AUX
antenna you must select MAIN antenna on SUB RX also

73,
Jorge
CX6VM/CW5W



-----Mensaje original-----
De: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] En nombre de Pfizenmayer
Enviado el: viernes, 04 de abril de 2014 01:44 p.m.
Para: Elecraft List
Asunto: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - SUB RX AUDIO

When I go split and try to listen to the sub rx audio - 9 times out of 10
its dead . If I just cycle power - its there and will stay there and N1MM
will enable/disable sub rx as well.

What did I miss  ?

Hank K7HP

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