K3 & FTDX5000 you tube
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If this is a duplicate listing...sorry.
I really don't care about an "audio" comparison on just one signal on a quiet band, but wow...look at the size difference! I guess guys like driving an 18 wheeler, but I'll stick with the K3 any day of the week. YMMV http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKwJ8Cu8lA0&feature=fvw de Doug KR2Q ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In another video the poster (YO3GJC) clearly states the following: "Both radios have same set-ul, pluged on same speakers"...... I'm not sure that your comment applies Ron. Traditionally the Yaesu's of this class tend to sound a little more "bassy" and 'smooth' than the K3 on SSB. I've owned both rigs and found that to be the case myself. However, perhaps for this test the user did something different??? A simple e-mail to him would answer this question: [hidden email] I'm sure Daniel would be happy to answer your question. He is a nice guy, and tends to be pretty fair about his tests. T. Smith > From: [hidden email] > To: [hidden email] > Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 13:50:22 -0800 > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 & FTDX5000 you tube > > Sounds exactly like the FT has a forward facing speakers (are those the > grilles on either side of the spectrum display) and the K3 is using its > internal up-facing speaker. > > When the pickup microphone is beyond what the audio folks call the "critical > distance" the echoes from around the room start to compete with the direct > audio, causing a loss of clarity and an echoing effect. > > If they wanted to compare apples with apples, the mic should have been the > same distance and same orientation from each rig, or best, used a direct > wired connection to the camera audio input. > > It's true that in almost any situation the up-facing speaker won't sound > quite as good as a forward-facing speaker. That's why so many Elecraft > owners who use the speaker much add a pair of outboard forward facing units. > Back when the K2 was new, many ingenious Hams looked to the past and built > deflectors out of metal, stiff paper or plastic that sat on top of the K2 to > deflect the sound forward. Works great. > > Ron AC7AC > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL > Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 12:53 PM > To: Elecraft Reflector > Subject: [Elecraft] K3 & FTDX5000 you tube > > If this is a duplicate listing...sorry. > > I really don't care about an "audio" comparison on just one signal on > a quiet band, but wow...look at the size difference! > > I guess guys like driving an 18 wheeler, but I'll stick with the K3 > any day of the week. YMMV > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKwJ8Cu8lA0&feature=fvw > > de Doug KR2Q > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by AC7AC
Listen carefully, at 29 seconds in he states that they are using the
same speakers... What I notice is that the panadaptor on the FTDX5000 has a very slow refresh rate! Bob NW8L On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire <[hidden email]> wrote: > Sounds exactly like the FT has a forward facing speakers (are those the > grilles on either side of the spectrum display) and the K3 is using its > internal up-facing speaker. > > When the pickup microphone is beyond what the audio folks call the "critical > distance" the echoes from around the room start to compete with the direct > audio, causing a loss of clarity and an echoing effect. > > If they wanted to compare apples with apples, the mic should have been the > same distance and same orientation from each rig, or best, used a direct > wired connection to the camera audio input. > > It's true that in almost any situation the up-facing speaker won't sound > quite as good as a forward-facing speaker. That's why so many Elecraft > owners who use the speaker much add a pair of outboard forward facing units. > Back when the K2 was new, many ingenious Hams looked to the past and built > deflectors out of metal, stiff paper or plastic that sat on top of the K2 to > deflect the sound forward. Works great. > > Ron AC7AC > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL > Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 12:53 PM > To: Elecraft Reflector > Subject: [Elecraft] K3 & FTDX5000 you tube > > If this is a duplicate listing...sorry. > > I really don't care about an "audio" comparison on just one signal on > a quiet band, but wow...look at the size difference! > > I guess guys like driving an 18 wheeler, but I'll stick with the K3 > any day of the week. YMMV > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKwJ8Cu8lA0&feature=fvw > > de Doug KR2Q > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL
For two radios that both feature an audio passband that is SOOOO adjustable in so many ways and likewise so affected by button/menu switches, it's almost criminal to put up a soundclip like that and call it a comparison. The obvious (duh) protocol should be to first adjust the rigs and equalize the passbands as closely as possible while observing the audio spectra, use similar gain/agc settings, and then finally let 'er rip.
Arggggh, Barry N1EU
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That's exactly what Daniel did, he says it in the video, and you can see him and his friend doing it too. There's other videos where he makes comparisons, and he puts in the text description that all the settings are 1 to 1 AGC, Filters, Speakers, etc... Nothing is different. Well, as much as he can get them anyhow. T. Smith > Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 16:21:06 -0800 > From: [hidden email] > To: [hidden email] > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 & FTDX5000 you tube > > > For two radios that both feature an audio passband that is SOOOO adjustable > in so many ways and likewise so affected by button/menu switches, it's > almost criminal to put up a soundclip like that and call it a comparison. > The obvious (duh) protocol should be to first adjust the rigs and equalize > the passbands as closely as possible while observing the audio spectra, use > similar gain/agc settings, and then finally let 'er rip. > > Arggggh, Barry N1EU > > > DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote: > > > > If this is a duplicate listing...sorry. > > > > I really don't care about an "audio" comparison on just one signal on > > a quiet band, but wow...look at the size difference! > > > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKwJ8Cu8lA0&feature=fvw > > > > -- > View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-FTDX5000-you-tube-tp5760967p5761293.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Barry N1EU
Barry,
I agree. I have a good background in engineering level testing, and one of the pre-requisites is to establish a level playing field for such comparisons. Just plugging in two radios and listening to them with no other information about the similarity of the settings would be thrown out of any decent "test" environment. The evaluation is entirely subjective unless it is supported by data substantiating the differences and the equalities. Take a look at the ARRL Lab test setup requirements as an example - they would never compare a 500 Hz bandpass to a 2.7 khz bandpass and expect the same results. I do not see any information about the setup parameters in that video. Yes, there were some comments by YO3GIC "after the fact" that "said" they were the "same", but the "if I remember correctly" does not speak to any recorded data. At one point, I saw the K3 HI CUT knob turned, but did not see any comparable adjustment on the FT, at least there was no information about what was being done and for what reason. In all cases, my ears told me that the K3 provided more intelligibility, and the only "advantage" of the FT was an extended bass response. Maybe my ears are different than others, but I would judge the audio from the K3 to be more clear than the FT in this video. I wonder where the Lo Cut was set on the K3 for this video? If bass response was to be the "evaluating parameter", did the K3 have the new DSP board installed, or was this a K3 prior to the DSP upgrade? Too many questions with no answers for my blood. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/21/2010 7:21 PM, Barry N1EU wrote: > For two radios that both feature an audio passband that is SOOOO adjustable > in so many ways and likewise so affected by button/menu switches, it's > almost criminal to put up a soundclip like that and call it a comparison. > The obvious (duh) protocol should be to first adjust the rigs and equalize > the passbands as closely as possible while observing the audio spectra, use > similar gain/agc settings, and then finally let 'er rip. > > Arggggh, Barry N1EU > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I remember in 1959 I was in a shop selling AM broadcast radios. I
must have listened to 20 or 30 different models and was worried someone was going to come and throw me out. I finally heard a Zenith 6 tube in a bakelite case that I thought had the "best sound" I could actually buy. I took it to college with me and listened to the Grand Ole Opry and country music from Nashville with it. The tone was extraordinary for a small radio and I loved it. That was the last time in my life that just putting two radios on the shelf and listening to them without further qualification was worth a plugged nickel because I kept that radio for twenty years and never bought another "canned" AM radio. Comparing a K3 and a Yaesu 5000 without the lab setup work? Not fair to either radio. Jeeeze. I'd be ashamed to put that up on the internet. 73, Guy. On Sun, Nov 21, 2010 at 7:47 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote: > Barry, > > I agree. I have a good background in engineering level testing, and one > of the pre-requisites is to establish a level playing field for such > comparisons. Just plugging in two radios and listening to them with no > other information about the similarity of the settings would be thrown > out of any decent "test" environment. The evaluation is entirely > subjective unless it is supported by data substantiating the differences > and the equalities. > > Take a look at the ARRL Lab test setup requirements as an example - they > would never compare a 500 Hz bandpass to a 2.7 khz bandpass and expect > the same results. I do not see any information about the setup > parameters in that video. Yes, there were some comments by YO3GIC > "after the fact" that "said" they were the "same", but the "if I > remember correctly" does not speak to any recorded data. > > At one point, I saw the K3 HI CUT knob turned, but did not see any > comparable adjustment on the FT, at least there was no information about > what was being done and for what reason. > In all cases, my ears told me that the K3 provided more intelligibility, > and the only "advantage" of the FT was an extended bass response. Maybe > my ears are different than others, but I would judge the audio from the > K3 to be more clear than the FT in this video. > > I wonder where the Lo Cut was set on the K3 for this video? If bass > response was to be the "evaluating parameter", did the K3 have the new > DSP board installed, or was this a K3 prior to the DSP upgrade? Too > many questions with no answers for my blood. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 11/21/2010 7:21 PM, Barry N1EU wrote: >> For two radios that both feature an audio passband that is SOOOO adjustable >> in so many ways and likewise so affected by button/menu switches, it's >> almost criminal to put up a soundclip like that and call it a comparison. >> The obvious (duh) protocol should be to first adjust the rigs and equalize >> the passbands as closely as possible while observing the audio spectra, use >> similar gain/agc settings, and then finally let 'er rip. >> >> Arggggh, Barry N1EU >> > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Guy,
Well, like your AM Broadcast radio, I did such subjective comparative evaluations when choosing my component audio gear. As a "for instance", I listened to several speakers while keeping all the other components constant. I chose other components in the same manner. Since I was choosing for myself (and my ears), it did not matter what the specs indicated, nor what the reviews of others would say - it was only my personal choices that needed to be considered. I am not so brash to state that my choices should be the selections for anyone else - that was a personal choice based on my ears alone. This video provided nothing in the arena of conclusions that I could decipher. I can surmise that the intent was to show that the FT was "better" than the K3, but that is only my assumption. As I said, the K3 sounded more intelligible to my ears, while the FT had more bass content - others are allowed to differ. You have heard the advice from Jim Brown and Joe Subich many times on this reflector to reduce the TX EQ bass response for better intelligibility and more effective SSB power - receive is not much different unless one is striving for "broadcast quality" instead of intelligibility. 73, Don W3FPR On 11/21/2010 8:05 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: > I remember in 1959 I was in a shop selling AM broadcast radios. I > must have listened to 20 or 30 different models and was worried > someone was going to come and throw me out. I finally heard a Zenith > 6 tube in a bakelite case that I thought had the "best sound" I could > actually buy. I took it to college with me and listened to the Grand > Ole Opry and country music from Nashville with it. The tone was > extraordinary for a small radio and I loved it. > > That was the last time in my life that just putting two radios on the > shelf and listening to them without further qualification was worth a > plugged nickel because I kept that radio for twenty years and never > bought another "canned" AM radio. Comparing a K3 and a Yaesu 5000 > without the lab setup work? Not fair to either radio. Jeeeze. I'd > be ashamed to put that up on the internet. > > 73, Guy. > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
Agree that this is a pretty uncontrolled experiment. They do say "4KHz", "Same AGC", "No noise reduction" and "Same Speakers."
*Given the way they were setup*, fair comparison or not, the FT5000 sounds way better and would be far less tiring to listen to for extended periods. --- On Sun, 11/21/10, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote: > Barry, > > I agree. I have a good background in engineering > level testing, and one > of the pre-requisites is to establish a level playing field > for such > comparisons. Just plugging in two radios and > listening to them with no > other information about the similarity of the settings > would be thrown > out of any decent "test" environment. The evaluation > is entirely > subjective unless it is supported by data substantiating > the differences > and the equalities. > > Take a look at the ARRL Lab test setup requirements as an > example - they > would never compare a 500 Hz bandpass to a 2.7 khz bandpass > and expect > the same results. I do not see any information about > the setup > parameters in that video. Yes, there were some > comments by YO3GIC > "after the fact" that "said" they were the "same", but the > "if I > remember correctly" does not speak to any recorded data. > > At one point, I saw the K3 HI CUT knob turned, but did not > see any > comparable adjustment on the FT, at least there was no > information about > what was being done and for what reason. > In all cases, my ears told me that the K3 provided more > intelligibility, > and the only "advantage" of the FT was an extended bass > response. Maybe > my ears are different than others, but I would judge the > audio from the > K3 to be more clear than the FT in this video. > > I wonder where the Lo Cut was set on the K3 for this > video? If bass > response was to be the "evaluating parameter", did the K3 > have the new > DSP board installed, or was this a K3 prior to the DSP > upgrade? Too > many questions with no answers for my blood. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > On 11/21/2010 7:21 PM, Barry N1EU wrote: > > For two radios that both feature an audio passband > that is SOOOO adjustable > > in so many ways and likewise so affected by > button/menu switches, it's > > almost criminal to put up a soundclip like that and > call it a comparison. > > The obvious (duh) protocol should be to first adjust > the rigs and equalize > > the passbands as closely as possible while observing > the audio spectra, use > > similar gain/agc settings, and then finally let 'er > rip. > > > > Arggggh, Barry N1EU > > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
Right, some are going to prefer the treble biased K3 rx audio featured in
this video and some are going to prefer the more bassy FT5K. My point is that either rig can easily be made to sound treble, bassy, neutral, etc. Given both radios and 10 minutes, I could make the K3 sound just like the FT5K in that video and could make the FT5K sound just like the K3 sounded. That video proved nothing. Barry N1EU On Mon, Nov 22, 2010 at 1:27 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote: > As I said, the K3 sounded more intelligible to my ears, while the FT had > more bass content - others are allowed to differ. You have heard the advice > from Jim Brown and Joe Subich many times on this reflector to reduce the TX > EQ bass response for better intelligibility and more effective SSB power - > receive is not much different unless one is striving for "broadcast quality" > instead of intelligibility. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV
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In reply to this post by Barry N1EU
You are absolutely right Barry,that video is useless for me,its full of noise and distorsion on both radios.
AD4C "If you see a driver handling a cell phone on her/his hands while driving,do please stay away from that vehicle,its a moving bomb.Your life is at danger.Keep yourself and your family alive" --- On Mon, 11/22/10, Barry N1EU <[hidden email]> wrote: From: Barry N1EU <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 & FTDX5000 you tube To: [hidden email] Date: Monday, November 22, 2010, 12:21 AM For two radios that both feature an audio passband that is SOOOO adjustable in so many ways and likewise so affected by button/menu switches, it's almost criminal to put up a soundclip like that and call it a comparison. The obvious (duh) protocol should be to first adjust the rigs and equalize the passbands as closely as possible while observing the audio spectra, use similar gain/agc settings, and then finally let 'er rip. Arggggh, Barry N1EU DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote: > > If this is a duplicate listing...sorry. > > I really don't care about an "audio" comparison on just one signal on > a quiet band, but wow...look at the size difference! > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKwJ8Cu8lA0&feature=fvw > -- View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-FTDX5000-you-tube-tp5760967p5761293.html Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by The Smiths
Any comparrison made through a microphone and with no direct connection to
the audio input is pretty much useless. Plus, I haven't seen any mention of antennas. Does the same antenna feed both rigs? Lou WA3MIX ----- Original Message ----- From: "The Smiths" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]>; "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]> Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2010 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 & FTDX5000 you tube > > That's exactly what Daniel did, he says it in the video, and you can see > him and his friend doing it too. There's other videos where he makes > comparisons, and he puts in the text description that all the settings are > 1 to 1 AGC, Filters, Speakers, etc... Nothing is different. Well, as much > as he can get them anyhow. > > T. Smith > >> Date: Sun, 21 Nov 2010 16:21:06 -0800 >> From: [hidden email] >> To: [hidden email] >> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 & FTDX5000 you tube >> >> >> For two radios that both feature an audio passband that is SOOOO >> adjustable >> in so many ways and likewise so affected by button/menu switches, it's >> almost criminal to put up a soundclip like that and call it a comparison. >> The obvious (duh) protocol should be to first adjust the rigs and >> equalize >> the passbands as closely as possible while observing the audio spectra, >> use >> similar gain/agc settings, and then finally let 'er rip. >> >> Arggggh, Barry N1EU >> >> >> DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL wrote: >> > >> > If this is a duplicate listing...sorry. >> > >> > I really don't care about an "audio" comparison on just one signal on >> > a quiet band, but wow...look at the size difference! >> > >> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKwJ8Cu8lA0&feature=fvw >> > >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-FTDX5000-you-tube-tp5760967p5761293.html >> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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