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[K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

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dmb@lightstream.net

[K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

I am probably doing something wrong, but I cannot find any reference to
the following issue in the K3 manual.

It seems that if one tunes to a non-ham band (general coverage) frequency
(I used numerical direct frequency entry), the ham band closest to the
target frequency now assumes the targeted general coverage frequency.

For example, I was on 40m and wanted to check a local broadcast AM station
at 1100 KHz. I entered "1.100" via the "FREQ ENT" button, and the radio
tuned to 1100 KHz as expected. However, now when I cycle through the ham
bands, the 160 meter slot is set to 1.100 Mhz instead of 1.8XX MHz.

Is this the way it is supposed to work? It's a bit of a deterrent to use
the KBPF3 to explore general coverage frequencies if a ham band gets
hijacked as a result.

73, Dale
WA8SRA

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Rick Dettinger-3

Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

Yes, they work that way.
That is why I use the memories to navigate through the ham bands.

73,
Rick Dettinger K7MW

On Feb 14, 2015, at 7:01 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> I am probably doing something wrong, but I cannot find any reference to
> the following issue in the K3 manual.
>
> It seems that if one tunes to a non-ham band (general coverage) frequency
> (I used numerical direct frequency entry), the ham band closest to the
> target frequency now assumes the targeted general coverage frequency.
>
> For example, I was on 40m and wanted to check a local broadcast AM station
> at 1100 KHz. I entered "1.100" via the "FREQ ENT" button, and the radio
> tuned to 1100 KHz as expected. However, now when I cycle through the ham
> bands, the 160 meter slot is set to 1.100 Mhz instead of 1.8XX MHz.
>
> Is this the way it is supposed to work? It's a bit of a deterrent to use
> the KBPF3 to explore general coverage frequencies if a ham band gets
> hijacked as a result.
>
> 73, Dale
> WA8SRA
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]

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Matt Zilmer-3

Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

In reply to this post by dmb@lightstream.net

Hi Dale,

When you're tuning around outside the hand bands, your last "dwell"
frequency will be set in the appropriate ham band For example,
listening to WWV on 15 MHz, 15.000 will become your VFO A's 20m
frequency. That VFO A frequency will persist across a power off / on
cycle. This behavior is consistent whether or not your K3 was last
left in the ham bands.

I don't know all the frequency limits for which non-ham frequency
ranges are assigned to which ham bands, but in terms of being
reasonable they make sense (imho).

If you combine SWL / general purpose and ham use, I'd suggest using
memories to keep your common-use frequencies in. That way, when you
tap the M>V button and dial the memory in, you always get a known
frequency (either inside or out of the ham bands). I use this method
for ham, SWL, and MARS operation and it does seem to work well.

73,
matt
W6NIA

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 22:01:11 -0500 (EST), you wrote:

>I am probably doing something wrong, but I cannot find any reference to
>the following issue in the K3 manual.
>
>It seems that if one tunes to a non-ham band (general coverage) frequency
>(I used numerical direct frequency entry), the ham band closest to the
>target frequency now assumes the targeted general coverage frequency.
>
>For example, I was on 40m and wanted to check a local broadcast AM station
>at 1100 KHz. I entered "1.100" via the "FREQ ENT" button, and the radio
>tuned to 1100 KHz as expected. However, now when I cycle through the ham
>bands, the 160 meter slot is set to 1.100 Mhz instead of 1.8XX MHz.
>
>Is this the way it is supposed to work? It's a bit of a deterrent to use
>the KBPF3 to explore general coverage frequencies if a ham band gets
>hijacked as a result.
>
>73, Dale
>WA8SRA
>
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>Message delivered to [hidden email]

Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
--
"Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will
spend the first four sharpening the axe." -A. Lincoln
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dmb@lightstream.net

Re: POSSIBLE SPAM Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

Hi Matt,

Thanks for your response. I see that using the memories will tune to the
stored frequency -- but it still hijacks a ham band. I like using the
'Band' button on the KPA500 to band-select the K3, but after selecting a
non-ham band memory, that gets screwed up as well. I don't see a way to
access a G/C frequency without this being the result.

It seems to me that if the ham band slots disallowed frequency assignments
outside of their respective bands, that would keep this from happening,
and would be consistent with the K3 being first and foremost a ham-band
receiver.

73, Dale
WA8SRA

> Hi Dale,
>
> When you're tuning around outside the hand bands, your last "dwell"
> frequency will be set in the appropriate ham band For example,
> listening to WWV on 15 MHz, 15.000 will become your VFO A's 20m
> frequency. That VFO A frequency will persist across a power off / on
> cycle. This behavior is consistent whether or not your K3 was last
> left in the ham bands.
>
> I don't know all the frequency limits for which non-ham frequency
> ranges are assigned to which ham bands, but in terms of being
> reasonable they make sense (imho).
>
> If you combine SWL / general purpose and ham use, I'd suggest using
> memories to keep your common-use frequencies in. That way, when you
> tap the M>V button and dial the memory in, you always get a known
> frequency (either inside or out of the ham bands). I use this method
> for ham, SWL, and MARS operation and it does seem to work well.
>
> 73,
> matt
> W6NIA
>
>

Bill Frantz

Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

In reply to this post by Rick Dettinger-3

I suggest adding a "band" between each ham band. When switching
away from these bands, the frequencies/modes/etc. would be saved
in the band and the ones from the new band would be loaded as
happens now.

These bands would not be accessed with the band up/down switch
unless enabled using a new menu item, thus avoiding pollution of
the ham bands with out-of-band frequencies.

One can dream further and have multiple bands between the ham
bands for SW broadcast, public service etc. One could even
imagine a WWV band which has all the WWV frequencies in a
non-contiguous band. I don't really recommend any of these
frills, but they are fun to think about.

73 Bill AE6JV

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | I like the farmers' market | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506 | because I can get fruits and | 16345
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | vegetables without stickers. | Los Gatos,
CA 95032

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Scott Manthe-2

Re: POSSIBLE SPAM Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

In reply to this post by dmb@lightstream.net

I solve this problem by entering a ham frequency after listening to a
general coverage frequency.

It takes about 2 seconds to do and solves the problem completely. So,
after I'm done listening to AM720, I simply enter 1.8mhz on that VFO and
all is well.

73,
Scott, N9AA

On 2/14/15 11:08 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

Scott Manthe-2

Re: POSSIBLE SPAM Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

In reply to this post by dmb@lightstream.net

Matt Zilmer-3

Re: POSSIBLE SPAM Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

In reply to this post by dmb@lightstream.net

Hi again Dale,

I'm not taking a position, just reporting how the K3 works now. Maybe
that was obvious, maybe not.

With many Amateur transceivers that allow receive outside the ham
bands, the VFO always initializes to the last frequency dialed in. The
only non-Elecraft example I have here is an old 1996-era JRC-245, but
I've observed that same behavior with many others. The K3 is
consistent in its behavior with most other transceivers.

From what you've written, it looks like the BAND up/down control is
really the problem. This is the reason I used (to myself) for the M>V
switch and using memories to control initial ham band entry after
tuning around outside. I do a lot of this, being a Curious George
type, and also a MARS op and doing occasional SWLing.

Being objective, I've thought up a few corner cases. For whatever
reason, I've become pretty good at this lately. Try these on:

1. The op dials past the ham band edge into g/c territory. In this
case, make the band edge persistent? I'm not sure that would be
correct. Most ops do not operate near the band edges. Maybe I'm just
biased in this way.

2. The last direct frequency entry was 15.000 MHz. Would you preserve
the previous direct frequency entry that was inside the Amateur 20m
band? Or the last VFO A frequency? Or something else (I'm trying to
use a little imagination, not something I'm great at).

3. This one would probably work for you. The op dials into the ham
band from g/c territory. I'm pretty sure that what most ops would
want to persist on VFO A is this last dwell frequency. That would
also be consistent with most transceivers' behavior, and what many ops
would expect.

4. For MARS operators, SWLers, and other legitimate ops that
habitually operate outside the ham bands, their K3s would constantly
revert to a previous dwell frequency, but only one from inside the
nearest ham band (hm, the one to which that dwell frequency range is
assigned). I think this would tick off the ops wanting to preserve
the last frequency dialed or keyed in.

I guess it's a conundrum, or a bit of one at least. From memory, I
think there was a Field Tester discussion on this topic long ago. This
and some hard decisions on the part of Elecraft gave the K3 its
present behavior.

Hey - at least the K3's behavior in this regard is 100% consistent!

:)

73,
matt
W6NIA

On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 23:08:29 -0500 (EST), you wrote:

>Hi Matt,
>
>Thanks for your response. I see that using the memories will tune to the
>stored frequency -- but it still hijacks a ham band. I like using the
>'Band' button on the KPA500 to band-select the K3, but after selecting a
>non-ham band memory, that gets screwed up as well. I don't see a way to
>access a G/C frequency without this being the result.
>
>It seems to me that if the ham band slots disallowed frequency assignments
>outside of their respective bands, that would keep this from happening,
>and would be consistent with the K3 being first and foremost a ham-band
>receiver.
>
>73, Dale
>WA8SRA
>
>
>> Hi Dale,
>>
>> When you're tuning around outside the hand bands, your last "dwell"
>> frequency will be set in the appropriate ham band For example,
>> listening to WWV on 15 MHz, 15.000 will become your VFO A's 20m
>> frequency. That VFO A frequency will persist across a power off / on
>> cycle. This behavior is consistent whether or not your K3 was last
>> left in the ham bands.
>>
>> I don't know all the frequency limits for which non-ham frequency
>> ranges are assigned to which ham bands, but in terms of being
>> reasonable they make sense (imho).
>>
>> If you combine SWL / general purpose and ham use, I'd suggest using
>> memories to keep your common-use frequencies in. That way, when you
>> tap the M>V button and dial the memory in, you always get a known
>> frequency (either inside or out of the ham bands). I use this method
>> for ham, SWL, and MARS operation and it does seem to work well.
>>
>> 73,
>> matt
>> W6NIA
>>
>>

dmb@lightstream.net

Re: ***POSSIBLE SPAM* Re: *POSSIBLE SPAM*** Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

Hi Matt,

Wow, you've really thought this through, and I appreciate the ideas.

I didn't mean to infer that this is a big deal to me. I probably venture
out of the ham bands maybe once every 2 or 3 years for about 15 minutes,
usually trying to determine the character of a neighborhood noise source.

However, after ordering a pair of the new KSYN3A boards, it occurred to me
that it might be interesting to explore some of the VLF frequencies using
the Pixel loop, and in playing around I re-discovered this scenario.

I actually do use the M>V+# memory band switching method, along with the
per-band M>V+M[1-4] memories to provide some band-stacking functionality
within bands, and all of that works extremely well and is very fast. The
only time there's a problem is when I tap the Band buttons on the KPA500
or use the Band up/down button on the K3.

So, none of this is really an issue. I just wanted to be sure that I
wasn't missing a simple or obvious-to-someone-else solution.

Thank you again!

73, Dale
WA8SRA

> Hi again Dale,
>
> I'm not taking a position, just reporting how the K3 works now. Maybe
> that was obvious, maybe not.
>
> With many Amateur transceivers that allow receive outside the ham
> bands, the VFO always initializes to the last frequency dialed in. The
> only non-Elecraft example I have here is an old 1996-era JRC-245, but
> I've observed that same behavior with many others. The K3 is
> consistent in its behavior with most other transceivers.
>
> From what you've written, it looks like the BAND up/down control is
> really the problem. This is the reason I used (to myself) for the M>V
> switch and using memories to control initial ham band entry after
> tuning around outside. I do a lot of this, being a Curious George
> type, and also a MARS op and doing occasional SWLing.
>
> Being objective, I've thought up a few corner cases. For whatever
> reason, I've become pretty good at this lately. Try these on:
>
> 1. The op dials past the ham band edge into g/c territory. In this
> case, make the band edge persistent? I'm not sure that would be
> correct. Most ops do not operate near the band edges. Maybe I'm just
> biased in this way.
>
> 2. The last direct frequency entry was 15.000 MHz. Would you preserve
> the previous direct frequency entry that was inside the Amateur 20m
> band? Or the last VFO A frequency? Or something else (I'm trying to
> use a little imagination, not something I'm great at).
>
> 3. This one would probably work for you. The op dials into the ham
> band from g/c territory. I'm pretty sure that what most ops would
> want to persist on VFO A is this last dwell frequency. That would
> also be consistent with most transceivers' behavior, and what many ops
> would expect.
>
> 4. For MARS operators, SWLers, and other legitimate ops that
> habitually operate outside the ham bands, their K3s would constantly
> revert to a previous dwell frequency, but only one from inside the
> nearest ham band (hm, the one to which that dwell frequency range is
> assigned). I think this would tick off the ops wanting to preserve
> the last frequency dialed or keyed in.
>
> I guess it's a conundrum, or a bit of one at least. From memory, I
> think there was a Field Tester discussion on this topic long ago. This
> and some hard decisions on the part of Elecraft gave the K3 its
> present behavior.
>
> Hey - at least the K3's behavior in this regard is 100% consistent!
>
> :)
>
> 73,
> matt
> W6NIA
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, 14 Feb 2015 23:08:29 -0500 (EST), you wrote:
>
>>Hi Matt,
>>
>>Thanks for your response. I see that using the memories will tune to the
>>stored frequency -- but it still hijacks a ham band. I like using the
>>'Band' button on the KPA500 to band-select the K3, but after selecting a
>>non-ham band memory, that gets screwed up as well. I don't see a way to
>>access a G/C frequency without this being the result.
>>
>>It seems to me that if the ham band slots disallowed frequency
>> assignments
>>outside of their respective bands, that would keep this from happening,
>>and would be consistent with the K3 being first and foremost a ham-band
>>receiver.
>>
>>73, Dale
>>WA8SRA
>>
>>
>>> Hi Dale,
>>>
>>> When you're tuning around outside the hand bands, your last "dwell"
>>> frequency will be set in the appropriate ham band For example,
>>> listening to WWV on 15 MHz, 15.000 will become your VFO A's 20m
>>> frequency. That VFO A frequency will persist across a power off / on
>>> cycle. This behavior is consistent whether or not your K3 was last
>>> left in the ham bands.
>>>
>>> I don't know all the frequency limits for which non-ham frequency
>>> ranges are assigned to which ham bands, but in terms of being
>>> reasonable they make sense (imho).
>>>
>>> If you combine SWL / general purpose and ham use, I'd suggest using
>>> memories to keep your common-use frequencies in. That way, when you
>>> tap the M>V button and dial the memory in, you always get a known
>>> frequency (either inside or out of the ham bands). I use this method
>>> for ham, SWL, and MARS operation and it does seem to work well.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> matt
>>> W6NIA
>>>
>>>
> Matt Zilmer, W6NIA
> --
> "Give me six hours to chop down a tree and I will
> spend the first four sharpening the axe." -A. Lincoln
>

Elecraft mailing list

Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

In reply to this post by Bill Frantz

I actually like that was the best (adding bands between the Ham bands)
I have a Flex-1500 and it pretty much works like that, and even has a separate WWV band button.
I like to listen to SW and the way it is now I have to do a cleanup when I'm done.

From: Bill Frantz <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Saturday, February 14, 2015 11:32 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

I suggest adding a "band" between each ham band. When switching
away from these bands, the frequencies/modes/etc. would be saved
in the band and the ones from the new band would be loaded as
happens now.

These bands would not be accessed with the band up/down switch
unless enabled using a new menu item, thus avoiding pollution of
the ham bands with out-of-band frequencies.

One can dream further and have multiple bands between the ham
bands for SW broadcast, public service etc. One could even
imagine a WWV band which has all the WWV frequencies in a
non-contiguous band. I don't really recommend any of these
frills, but they are fun to think about.

73 Bill AE6JV

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | I like the farmers' market | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506 | because I can get fruits and | 16345
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | vegetables without stickers. | Los Gatos,
CA 95032

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Charlie T, K3ICH

Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

With all the major players (BBC, Deutsche Welle) dropping off "Short-Wave",
what's left to listen to? Years ago it used to be fun, but unless you're
into 3rd world or religious radio ( Not that there's anything wrong with
that.), the choices are few.

I hear that even the low freq Euro broadcasts (153, 162, 171 kHz etc.)
aren't long for this world either. Can you imagine the electric bill to
keep a 2 Mega-Watt LF station on the air?

73, Charlie k3ICH

----- Original Message -----
From: "Harry Yingst via Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
To: "Bill Frantz" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, February 15, 2015 10:39 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

>I actually like that was the best (adding bands between the Ham bands)
> I have a Flex-1500 and it pretty much works like that, and even has a
> separate WWV band button.
> I like to listen to SW and the way it is now I have to do a cleanup when
> I'm done.
>
>

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Benny Aumala-2

Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

In reply to this post by dmb@lightstream.net

Exercise:

FREQ ENT 15 you get VFO A 15.000 but VFO B stay on old freq e.g. 14.125.00
You can tune around 15.000 in general coverage and cycle power OFF / ON.

To return, push A/B to get 14.125.00 to your VFO A.
Then make A and B same pushing A to B switch.

Make this exercise 3 times and you can recover fast and secure.

Benny OH9NB
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Edward R Cole

Re: POSSIBLE SPAM Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

In reply to this post by dmb@lightstream.net

Never noticed this - probably because I use memories for selecting
bands and/or frequencies (M>V). I did that with my FT-847 and
repeated it with the K3 and KX3. I have saved to memory one
frequency for each mode per band. e.g. 14020 (50CW), 14070(51PSK),
14095.6(52WSPR), 14205(53SSB),14292(54SSB), 14303.5 (55SSB), ...
15000(57WWV),...etc

So if I want to operate a particular band/mode I merely M>V and
rotate VFO-A to select. I rarely use the BAND button.

73, Ed - KL7UW
http://www.kl7uw.com
"Kits made by KL7UW"
Dubus Mag business:
[hidden email]

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[K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

[K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

Re: *****POSSIBLE SPAM***** Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

Re: *****POSSIBLE SPAM***** Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

Re: *****POSSIBLE SPAM***** Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

Re: *****POSSIBLE SPAM***** Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

Re: *****POSSIBLE SPAM***** Re: *****POSSIBLE SPAM***** Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

Re: *****POSSIBLE SPAM***** Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

Re: POSSIBLE SPAM Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

Re: POSSIBLE SPAM Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

Re: POSSIBLE SPAM Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

Re: POSSIBLE SPAM Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

Re: ***POSSIBLE SPAM* Re: *POSSIBLE SPAM*** Re: [K3] General coverage hijacks ham band

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