K3 Internal Digital Modes
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I confess to not being a CW guy. Yeah, I passed the 20 WPM test for my
Extra many years ago, but that didn't make me a devotee. I use microphones or keyboards when I operate. (With the K3, I've even used my paddles, but not for CW!) I find when I have the K3 turned on, I often tune down to the PSK or RTTY areas of 20 meters and watch the text scroll by on the VFO B display of the K3. I used to do this sometimes with my IC746PRO with its RTTY decoder, but that radio doesn't decode PSK31, so it was mostly interesting only during RTTY contests or W1AW bulletins :-) Since my PCs are tied up with my work, I don't usually have soundcard software running. With the K3, I don't need the PC or its software! It internally decodes RTTY, PSK31 and CW. This feature has changed my perspective on listening around on the bands. RTTY and PSK are now as accessible to causal listening as SSB or CW. Oh, yes, about CW. The CW decoder has driven me to listen around in the CW segments. I want to see if I can figure what's being sent before the decoder does, or to see if I can catch the decoder in an error :-) My ability to copy CW in my head, never very good, is certainly getting better with this visual reinforcement. 73, Lyle KK7P K2 S/N 000000000000002 PS - I am not unbiased in all of this, of course, having written the DSP portion of these demodulators. But making something and finding myself wanting to use it are two different things :-) _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Lyle, how good is the decoder? My limited experience of CW decoding in
firmware is that the CW has to be near machine perfect in order for the decoder to get it. What's the K3 like? On 17/9/07 19:29, "Lyle Johnson" <[hidden email]> sent: > Oh, yes, about CW. The CW decoder has driven me to listen around in the > CW segments. I want to see if I can figure what's being sent before the > decoder does, or to see if I can catch the decoder in an error :-) My > ability to copy CW in my head, never very good, is certainly getting > better with this visual reinforcement. -- Once upon a time a man whose axe was missing suspected his neighbour's son. The boy walked like a thief, looked like a thief, and spoke like a thief. But the man found his axe while digging in the valley, and the next time he saw his neighbour's son, the boy walked, looked and spoke like any other child. -Lao-tzu, philosopher (6th century BCE) _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by KK7P
Just to reinforce this, I now only use software for RTTY if I absolutely have to (mainly
for contesting). I find it so much easier to use my paddles and the K3's decoder. You can even do this for "casual" contesting using the CW Messages M1-4. An added benefit from this is by getting use to sending RTTY and PSK with your paddles it makes you better at sending CW. Since you can see what you are sending, you can tell if you left just a little too much space between letters, so it helps with your timing. When working 3B7C last week (I need him again cuz they don't have me in their log!!!) I had the CW decoder on. He was an S1-2 and be adjusting the Threshold setting (there's an auto- threshold option now too) and using a narrow BW filter in the DSP I was able to get about 80-90% print on the decoder (there was some QSB to deal with). Very Fun Stuff! ------------------------- 73, Greg - AB7R Whidbey Island WA NA-065 On Mon Sep 17 14:29 , Lyle Johnson sent: >I confess to not being a CW guy. Yeah, I passed the 20 WPM test for my >Extra many years ago, but that didn't make me a devotee. I use >microphones or keyboards when I operate. (With the K3, I've even used >my paddles, but not for CW!) > >I find when I have the K3 turned on, I often tune down to the PSK or >RTTY areas of 20 meters and watch the text scroll by on the VFO B >display of the K3. I used to do this sometimes with my IC746PRO with >its RTTY decoder, but that radio doesn't decode PSK31, so it was mostly >interesting only during RTTY contests or W1AW bulletins :-) > >Since my PCs are tied up with my work, I don't usually have soundcard >software running. With the K3, I don't need the PC or its software! It >internally decodes RTTY, PSK31 and CW. > >This feature has changed my perspective on listening around on the >bands. RTTY and PSK are now as accessible to causal listening as SSB or CW. > >Oh, yes, about CW. The CW decoder has driven me to listen around in the >CW segments. I want to see if I can figure what's being sent before the >decoder does, or to see if I can catch the decoder in an error :-) My >ability to copy CW in my head, never very good, is certainly getting >better with this visual reinforcement. > >73, > >Lyle KK7P > >K2 S/N 000000000000002 > >PS - I am not unbiased in all of this, of course, having written the DSP >portion of these demodulators. But making something and finding myself >wanting to use it are two different things :-) > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Post to: [hidden email] >You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by M0XDF
> Lyle, how good is the decoder? My limited experience of CW decoding in
> firmware is that the CW has to be near machine perfect in order for the > decoder to get it... It does a decent job on reasonable code. I use it as an aid (OK, crutch) rather than as the Gospel :-) Lyle _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by M0XDF
David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:
> Lyle, how good is the decoder? My limited experience of CW decoding in > firmware is that the CW has to be near machine perfect in order for the > decoder to get it. What's the K3 like? David, Lyle will give you his observations, I'm sure, but I thought I'd mention that I've been able to copy some pretty sloppy code with it. The decoder keeps track of dot/dash ratios, factors out noise to the extent possible, and now also has an "AUTO" mode where it will try to select the ideal signal level for element vs. space decisions. I'm also planning to do additional analysis of element vs. letter vs. word space lengths, at which point it should handle very individualist sending. 73, Wayne N6KR --- http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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wayne burdick wrote:
> Lyle will give you his observations, I'm sure, but I thought I'd mention > that I've been able to copy some pretty sloppy code with it. When you're ready for final testing, just let me know and I'll get out my bug collection. -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: K3 Internal Digital Modes
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In reply to this post by KK7P
The best CW DSP decoder I've ever used was the one between my ears...sloppy code and all. Have a great day! Lee - K0WA In our day and age it seems that Common Sense is in short supply. If you don't have any Common Sense - get some Common Sense and use it. If you can't find any Common Sense, ask for help from somebody who has some Common Sense. Is Common Sense divine? _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
1 word
WOW! On 17/9/07 20:01, "wayne burdick" <[hidden email]> sent: > David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: > >> Lyle, how good is the decoder? My limited experience of CW decoding in >> firmware is that the CW has to be near machine perfect in order for the >> decoder to get it. What's the K3 like? > > David, > > Lyle will give you his observations, I'm sure, but I thought I'd > mention that I've been able to copy some pretty sloppy code with it. > The decoder keeps track of dot/dash ratios, factors out noise to the > extent possible, and now also has an "AUTO" mode where it will try to > select the ideal signal level for element vs. space decisions. I'm also > planning to do additional analysis of element vs. letter vs. word space > lengths, at which point it should handle very individualist sending. > > 73, > Wayne > N6KR > > --- > > http://www.elecraft.com > -- Math Anxiety: an intense lifelong fear of two trains approaching each other at speeds of 60 and 80 MPH. -Rick Bayan _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: K3 Internal Digital Modes
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
Wayne,
Any chance that you could publish the algorithm when it's perfected? Simon Brown, HB9DRV ----- Original Message ----- From: "wayne burdick" <[hidden email]> > > Lyle will give you his observations, I'm sure, but I thought I'd > mention that I've been able to copy some pretty sloppy code with it. > The decoder keeps track of dot/dash ratios, factors out noise to the > extent possible, and now also has an "AUTO" mode where it will try to > select the ideal signal level for element vs. space decisions. I'm also > planning to do additional analysis of element vs. letter vs. word space > lengths, at which point it should handle very individualist sending. > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: K3 Internal Digital Modes
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Bit more - FWIW I am looking at CW decoding software on the PC.
Once the K3 is shipping and you and the internal firmware team have caught a breath of air I wouldn't mind looking at this. Simon Brown, HB9DRV ----- Original Message ----- From: "Simon Brown (HB9DRV)" <[hidden email]> > > Any chance that you could publish the algorithm when it's perfected? > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: K3 Internal Digital Modes
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
I am normally a 99.9 % lurker on the Elecraft list since I find most of the
information I am interested in without further cluttering up things, but here is one I haven't seen discussed. Will the CW decoder show your outgoing (real time - not message memories) sending? My MFJ 495 keyer does this and I have found it to be a VERY helpful feature. John, K4JDW _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: Re: K3 Internal Digital Modes
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In reply to this post by KK7P
Hi John.
When you turn on the decoder there are presently a few options available. TX ONLY TWO SPEED RANGES WPM CHECK When the decoder is on, you will also see your outgoing CW from the paddle. ------------------------- 73, Greg - AB7R Whidbey Island WA NA-065 On Mon Sep 17 17:40 , "John Sims" sent: >I am normally a 99.9 % lurker on the Elecraft list since I find most of the >information I am interested in without further cluttering up things, but >here is one I haven't seen discussed. Will the CW decoder show your >outgoing (real time - not message memories) sending? My MFJ 495 keyer does >this and I have found it to be a VERY helpful feature. > >John, K4JDW > > >_______________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Post to: [hidden email] >You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by John Sims-3
> ... Will the CW decoder show your
> outgoing (real time - not message memories) sending? Yes, as long as you use the internal keyer. 73, Lyle KK7P _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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A future firmware revision will also decode and display CW sent via an
external keyer, handkey, or computer plugged into the K3. This is even easier than decoding on-the-air CW ;) 73, Wayne N6KR On Sep 17, 2007, at 2:49 PM, Lyle Johnson wrote: >> ... Will the CW decoder show your outgoing (real time - not message >> memories) sending? > > Yes, as long as you use the internal keyer. > > 73, > > Lyle KK7P > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > > --- http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by M0XDF
Hi David:
UNfortunately, you're not going to find many devices (other than the human brain) which will decode poorly sent CW... and the K3 is no different... the CW must be pretty well sent before it can decode it, but it seems to do decently well on less than 'perfect' fists. The brain is still your VERY BEST decoder! Just takes some practice... well, OK... a LOT of practice... <G> Cheers, Tom N0SS At 13:43 09/17/2007, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote: >Lyle, how good is the decoder? My limited experience of CW decoding in >firmware is that the CW has to be near machine perfect in order for the >decoder to get it. >What's the K3 like? > > >On 17/9/07 19:29, "Lyle Johnson" <[hidden email]> sent: > > > Oh, yes, about CW. The CW decoder has driven me to listen around in the > > CW segments. I want to see if I can figure what's being sent before the > > decoder does, or to see if I can catch the decoder in an error :-) My > > ability to copy CW in my head, never very good, is certainly getting > > better with this visual reinforcement. > >-- >Once upon a time a man whose axe was missing suspected his neighbour's son. >The boy walked like a thief, looked like a thief, and spoke like a thief. >But the man found his axe while digging in the valley, and the next time he >saw his neighbour's son, the boy walked, looked and spoke like any other >child. -Lao-tzu, philosopher (6th century BCE) > > > >_______________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Post to: [hidden email] >You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by k0wa@swbell.net
In a recent message, Lee Buller <[hidden email]> wrote ...
>The best CW DSP decoder I've ever used was the one between my >ears...sloppy code and all. Well said, Lee. So many people these days seem obsessed on trying to decode CW with electronics rather that taking the bother of training their brain. Now if the K3 could read CW sent from a variety of straight key operators, recognise the operator and display their callsign on the display and then enter it into the log together with the genuine RST or SINPO report, then I could be persuaded! 73 -- David G4DMP Leeds, England, UK ------ _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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I don't agree with your implication that people using CW decoders are
lazy. Some people's brains just aren't good at certain tasks. There is just no way I can read (or send) code the speed most people do during contests, for example. It is like trying to decode machine gun fire. Computer decoding has enabled me to make contacts with many places I might not otherwise have done, giving out points during contests. I just hope my K3 is here in time for the CQ WW CW contest. -- Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ??? G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com Ham-Directory: www.ham-directory.com On 9/18/07, David Pratt <[hidden email]> wrote: > >The best CW DSP decoder I've ever used was the one between my > >ears...sloppy code and all. > > Well said, Lee. So many people these days seem obsessed on trying to > decode CW with electronics rather that taking the bother of training > their brain. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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In reply to this post by Tom Hammond-2
Yes, thanks Tom, perhaps I should have made it clearer that I to think that
"the brain is best". I'm still working on my Morse and will continue to do so. But was just interested, since what I've seen so far shows just how much better the brain is. But Lyle's comments made me wonder if Wayne had 'cracked it'. Perhaps he has, hopefully will know in a couple of weeks time :-) On 17/9/07 23:43, "Tom Hammond" <[hidden email]> sent: > Hi David: > > UNfortunately, you're not going to find many devices (other than the > human brain) which will decode poorly sent CW... and the K3 is no > different... the CW must be pretty well sent before it can decode it, > but it seems to do decently well on less than 'perfect' fists. > > The brain is still your VERY BEST decoder! Just takes some > practice... well, OK... a LOT of practice... <G> -- Everything secret degenerates, even the administration of justice; nothing is safe that does not show how it can bear discussion and publicity. -Lord Acton, historian (1834-1902) _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In a recent message, "David Ferrington, M0XDF" <[hidden email]>
wrote ... >But Lyle's comments made me wonder if Wayne had >'cracked it'. Perhaps he has, hopefully will know in a couple of weeks time The same thoughts crossed my mind, David. When I read that Lyle was not a CW operator it did make me wonder how good the DSP in the K3 would deal with CW. Up to now I can only speak for the K2. The KDSP2 might be fine for SSB, but I certainly prefer the KAF2 audio filter for CW. We shall have to wait until after 8th October to find out. 73 -- David G4DMP Leeds, England, UK ------ _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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