K3/K2: cumulative HF xcvr review from eHam

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K3/K2: cumulative HF xcvr review from eHam

DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL
Hope this prints OK.

While doodling around today, I thought to take a look at the eHam.net
product reviews.

Somewhat difficult to make a lot of sense from it, so I thought I'd import
it into Excel.

I've limited the list below to those rigs with 100 or more reviews.  The
sort is by average rating, then # of reviews.

Interesting stuff...and not too shabby for Elecraft K3 and K2.  KUDOS.
I'm happy to report that at some point in my ham career, I've owned the
first 3 listed.

I may regret this, but if you'd like the entire excel file, drop me a
line.  Then you can sort it any number of ways you like, for every single
radio ever reviewed.

This listing is as of Dec 25, 2013 around 2030z.

de Doug KR2Q

Reviews    Ave rating    Product
209    4.9     Elecraft K3
118    4.9     Kenwood TS-830S
289    4.8     Elecraft K2 & K2/100
218    4.8     ICOM IC-756 Pro III
187    4.8     Kenwood TS-480SAT
159    4.8     ICOM IC-7200
132    4.8     Yaesu FT-990
117    4.8     Kenwood TS-850
113    4.8     Kenwood TS-480HX
109    4.8     Yaesu FT-1000MP Mk V Field
106    4.8     Yaesu FT-1000(D)
100    4.8     Kenwood TS-520S
243    4.7     ICOM IC-746
239    4.7     Kenwood TS-590S
162    4.7     Yaesu FT-920
155    4.7     Kenwood TS-870S
150    4.7     Yaesu FT-840
142    4.7     ICOM IC-756PRO
116    4.7     Kenwood TS-940SAT
113    4.7     ICOM IC-735
113    4.7     ICOM IC-7600
393    4.6     ICOM IC-718
355    4.6     Yaesu FT-897 & 897D
272    4.6     Yaesu FT-950
229    4.6     Yaesu FT-450
179    4.6     Kenwood TS-570D(G)
164    4.6     Ten-Tec Jupiter
146    4.6     ICOM IC-756PRO2
478    4.5     Kenwood TS-2000
425    4.5     Yaesu FT-857 - all flavors
124    4.5     ICOM IC-7700
455    4.4     ICOM IC-706 - All flavors
166    4.4     Yaesu FT-847
152    4.4     Alinco DX-70TH
310    4.3     ICOM IC-7000
205    4.3     Yaesu FT-2000/2000D
176    4.3     Icom IC 703
163    4.3     Yaesu FT-1000MP Mk V
341    4.2     ICOM IC-746PRO
187    4.2     Yaesu FT-100D
134    4.2     Radio Shack HTX-10
110    3.7     Yaesu FT-100
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Re: K3/K2: cumulative HF xcvr review from eHam

Jim Brown-10
On 12/25/2013 1:06 PM, Douglas Zwiebel wrote:
> I've limited the list below to those rigs with 100 or more reviews.  The
> sort is by average rating, then # of reviews.

I wouldn't put too much credence in a sort like this -- ratings like
this are highly subjective, based on factors like  expectations,
intended use, relative cost, and experience and the technical background
of the reviewer. Is it the guy's first rig, or has he owned and used a
dozen or more over decades on the air?  Is he a serious DXer, contester,
or casual ragchewer? All product reviews must be read through a strong
BS filter.

In this particular list, for example, the TS480 is unique, being one of
the first (and still few) HF rigs specifically designed for remote
operation.  Likewise, the 746 (I've owned two) provides a lot of bang
for the buck and is fairly robust, but it's got lots of phase noise and
a weak front end. The 7600 is also an RF trash generator -- clicks and
phase noise abound.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: K3/K2: cumulative HF xcvr review from eHam

DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL
In reply to this post by DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL
Jim, K9YC sed:
[snip]

I wouldn't put too much credence in a sort like this -- ratings like
this are highly subjective

[end snip]

Which is exactly why I limited the list to 100 or more reviews.  I figure
that folks who buy, or might buy, a K3 or K2 (or any other rig), are
probably as "subjective" as these reviews.  Hence, increased validity
overall for the "average" Joe Ham.

If you were to review only serious contesters, I'm sure the K3 would stand
out even more.  But most of the reviews, by category of reviewer, are not
from contesters.

So I think the list is still reasonably apples to apples...but your
"warning" is absolutely true.

mx es hny!

de Doug KR2Q
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Re: K3/K2: cumulative HF xcvr review from eHam

EricJ-2
In reply to this post by DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL
Interesting list, but I just bought a DX-40 on ebay and it's not on it.
Did I screw up?

Eric
KE6US

On 12/25/2013 1:06 PM, Douglas Zwiebel wrote:

> Hope this prints OK.
>
> While doodling around today, I thought to take a look at the eHam.net
> product reviews.
>
> Somewhat difficult to make a lot of sense from it, so I thought I'd import
> it into Excel.
>
> I've limited the list below to those rigs with 100 or more reviews.  The
> sort is by average rating, then # of reviews.
>
> Interesting stuff...and not too shabby for Elecraft K3 and K2.  KUDOS.
> I'm happy to report that at some point in my ham career, I've owned the
> first 3 listed.
>
> I may regret this, but if you'd like the entire excel file, drop me a
> line.  Then you can sort it any number of ways you like, for every single
> radio ever reviewed.
>
> This listing is as of Dec 25, 2013 around 2030z.
>
> de Doug KR2Q
>
> Reviews    Ave rating    Product
> 209    4.9     Elecraft K3
> 118    4.9     Kenwood TS-830S
> 289    4.8     Elecraft K2 & K2/100
> 218    4.8     ICOM IC-756 Pro III
> 187    4.8     Kenwood TS-480SAT
> 159    4.8     ICOM IC-7200
> 132    4.8     Yaesu FT-990
> 117    4.8     Kenwood TS-850
> 113    4.8     Kenwood TS-480HX
> 109    4.8     Yaesu FT-1000MP Mk V Field
> 106    4.8     Yaesu FT-1000(D)
> 100    4.8     Kenwood TS-520S
> 243    4.7     ICOM IC-746
> 239    4.7     Kenwood TS-590S
> 162    4.7     Yaesu FT-920
> 155    4.7     Kenwood TS-870S
> 150    4.7     Yaesu FT-840
> 142    4.7     ICOM IC-756PRO
> 116    4.7     Kenwood TS-940SAT
> 113    4.7     ICOM IC-735
> 113    4.7     ICOM IC-7600
> 393    4.6     ICOM IC-718
> 355    4.6     Yaesu FT-897 & 897D
> 272    4.6     Yaesu FT-950
> 229    4.6     Yaesu FT-450
> 179    4.6     Kenwood TS-570D(G)
> 164    4.6     Ten-Tec Jupiter
> 146    4.6     ICOM IC-756PRO2
> 478    4.5     Kenwood TS-2000
> 425    4.5     Yaesu FT-857 - all flavors
> 124    4.5     ICOM IC-7700
> 455    4.4     ICOM IC-706 - All flavors
> 166    4.4     Yaesu FT-847
> 152    4.4     Alinco DX-70TH
> 310    4.3     ICOM IC-7000
> 205    4.3     Yaesu FT-2000/2000D
> 176    4.3     Icom IC 703
> 163    4.3     Yaesu FT-1000MP Mk V
> 341    4.2     ICOM IC-746PRO
> 187    4.2     Yaesu FT-100D
> 134    4.2     Radio Shack HTX-10
> 110    3.7     Yaesu FT-100
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

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Re: K3/K2: cumulative HF xcvr review from eHam

Dick Dickinson
In reply to this post by DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL
With 2 more reviews, the venerable Icom IC-751A would top the list at 5.0.

 

73,

Dick - KA5KKT

 

 

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Re: K3/K2: cumulative HF xcvr review from eHam

wayne burdick
Administrator
In reply to this post by DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL
Interesting stats, Doug. I expected the KX3 to be right up there near the top, too, but then I realized it has only 99 reviews. Just missed The Cutoff :)  

eHam is a highly approximate metric for radio quality. But I do read every review, since they're are often posted by customers who aren't subscribed to our reflector. Lots of valuable observations, ideas for improvement, etc.

Wayne
N6KR


On Dec 25, 2013, at 1:06 PM, Douglas Zwiebel <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hope this prints OK.
>
> While doodling around today, I thought to take a look at the eHam.net
> product reviews.
>
> Somewhat difficult to make a lot of sense from it, so I thought I'd import
> it into Excel.
>
> I've limited the list below to those rigs with 100 or more reviews.  The
> sort is by average rating, then # of reviews.
>
> Interesting stuff...and not too shabby for Elecraft K3 and K2.  KUDOS.
> I'm happy to report that at some point in my ham career, I've owned the
> first 3 listed.
>
> I may regret this, but if you'd like the entire excel file, drop me a
> line.  Then you can sort it any number of ways you like, for every single
> radio ever reviewed.
>
> This listing is as of Dec 25, 2013 around 2030z.
>
> de Doug KR2Q
>
> Reviews    Ave rating    Product
> 209    4.9     Elecraft K3
> 118    4.9     Kenwood TS-830S
> 289    4.8     Elecraft K2 & K2/100





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Re: K3/K2: cumulative HF xcvr review from eHam

k6dgw
In reply to this post by DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL
From your perspective Wayne, i'd read them all too.  From my perspective as just a ham, I've pretty much given up on eHam reviews.  Like me trying to learn how to pilot a helicopter, they are all over the sky.  Plus, I don't know who they are, what they expected, whether or not that was realistic, or whether the actually knew what they were doing.

Merry Christmas to all

Fred K6DGW
TDY Sparks NV

PS: Never did learn to pilot the helicopter effectively

Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Interesting stats, Doug. I expected the KX3 to be right up there near the top, too, but then I realized it has only 99 reviews. Just missed The Cutoff :)  
>
>eHam is a highly approximate metric for radio quality. But I do read every review, since they're are often posted by customers who aren't subscribed to our reflector. Lots of valuable observations, ideas for improvement, etc.
>
>Wayne
>N6KR
>
>
>On Dec 25, 2013, at 1:06 PM, Douglas Zwiebel <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Hope this prints OK.
>>
>> While doodling around today, I thought to take a look at the eHam.net
>> product reviews.
>>
>> Somewhat difficult to make a lot of sense from it, so I thought I'd import
>> it into Excel.
>>
>> I've limited the list below to those rigs with 100 or more reviews.  The
>> sort is by average rating, then # of reviews.
>>
>> Interesting stuff...and not too shabby for Elecraft K3 and K2.  KUDOS.
>> I'm happy to report that at some point in my ham career, I've owned the
>> first 3 listed.
>>
>> I may regret this, but if you'd like the entire excel file, drop me a
>> line.  Then you can sort it any number of ways you like, for every single
>> radio ever reviewed.
>>
>> This listing is as of Dec 25, 2013 around 2030z.
>>
>> de Doug KR2Q
>>
>> Reviews    Ave rating    Product
>> 209    4.9     Elecraft K3
>> 118    4.9     Kenwood TS-830S
>> 289    4.8     Elecraft K2 & K2/100
>
>
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
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Re: K3/K2: cumulative HF xcvr review from eHam

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by wayne burdick
On 12/25/2013 9:22 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> Lots of valuable observations, ideas for improvement, etc.

That's why you guys have always been in front of the pack!

73, Jim
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Re: K3/K2: cumulative HF xcvr review from eHam

Bill W4ZV
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
Jim Brown-10 wrote
The 7600 is also an RF trash generator -- clicks and
phase noise abound.
Not as bad as many others...Flex Radios the worst by far:

Model QST Rx @20 kHz Tx @20 kHz Diff Tx Wide
(-dBc) (-dBc) (dB) (-dBc)
K3 Jan 09 112 (104) 119 -7 128@100kHz, 120@360kHz
TS-599AT Aug 11 115 (93) 108 7 112@100kHz
IC-7600 Nov 09 105 (100) 102 3 111@100kHz
IC-7700 Oct 08 109 (105) 108 1 110@100kHz
TS-590S May 11 120 (104) 106 14 110@100kHz
KX3
Dec 12 120 (105) 97 23 107@100kHz
IC-9100 Apr 12 101 101 0 105@100kHz
FTdx5000 Dec 10 109 (104) 104 5 103@100kHz
FT-950 Mar 08 86 (105) 100 -14 102@100kHz
FTdx9000 Jul 10 114 101 13 100@100kHz
FT-450D Nov 11 98 85 13 96@100kHz
IC-7200 Jun 09 103 95 8 94@100kHz
Flex-1500 Dec 11 107 (88) 101 6 81@300kHz
Flex-5000A Jul 08 99 (96) 91 8 77@350kHz

http://www.sm5bsz.com/dynrange/dubus313.pdf

73,  Bill  W4ZV
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Re: K3/K2: cumulative HF xcvr review from eHam

Jim Brown-10
On 12/26/2013 4:36 AM, Bill W4ZV wrote:
>> The 7600 is also an RF trash generator -- clicks and
>> >phase noise abound.
> Not as bad as many others...Flex Radios the worst by far:

That does not consider clicks -- most if not all Icom radios have a
leading spike, and the keying rise time on the 7600 is adjustable over a
wide range, most settings of which produce broad clicks.

Can't speak to the Flex radios -- so far, I've not lived close to one.

Thanks for the link to the SM5BSZ review. Your copy of the table doesn't
work very well in email, but the data in Leif's report is quite clear.
It says that the 7600 is 11dB worse than the K3 -- that's 12X the power
of the trash within 20 kHz for phase noise alone!

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: K3/K2: cumulative HF xcvr review from eHam

Jim Brown-10
On 12/26/2013 10:04 AM, Jim Brown wrote:
> It says that the 7600 is 11dB worse than the K3 -- that's 12X the
> power of the trash within 20 kHz for phase noise alone!

Correction -- the 7600 is 17 dB worse than the K3, 50X the power of the
trash from phase noise.

73, Jim K9YC
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