K3 - KDVR bug?

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K3 - KDVR bug?

Barry Pfeil
Recently installed the KDVR3 and still trying to figure it out.  Two questions:

1. In setting up for the Sweepstakes contest, I want to use the microphone to
speak the first part of my exchange, that is the other station's call and the
number and precedence I am giving him, e.g., "W1XYZ, you're number 123 Uniform"
and I want to use the KDVR for the rest, e.g., "K6RM, 59, Sierra Charlie
Victor".  I've programmed the N1MM macros from N6ML's
site  http://www.dseven.org/ar/n1mm-kdvr3  to drive the K3 DVR and they work
great when pushing the physical N1MM Function keys or clicking same on-screen.

BUT, when using VOX, I've discovered that the message won't play if I try to
start it (with the N1MM F-key or ENTER in ESM mode) while the PTT is still
asserted from my earlier speaking.  If I wait that fraction of a second until
the VOX PTT drops (i.e., when I hear noise in the headset again) before I
initiate the message, it plays fine.  Switching to the footswitch instead of
VOX, everything plays fine even if I keep the footswitch down while the DVR
message is starting.  Seems like the same logic in the K3 that allows that
should also apply to the VOX PTT assertion, but apparently it does not?  Is this
expected behavior or maybe a bug or needed enhancement in the DVR?

2. I find that the playback level of the DVR is a function of the MIC GAIN
setting when recording.  In other words, changing the MIC gain during playback
does NOT affect then playback level.  However, the DVR evidently stores
UNCOMPRESSED audio because the compression DOES vary directly with the COMP
control during DVR playback.  Again, is this normal/expected?

With all due respect, I LOVE my K3, but  I HATE having to experiment (or read
this reflector) to learn things like this when it SHOULD be in the manual. 
Frankly, IMHO, the K3 manual stinks. 


Thanks es 73, Barry K6RM
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Re: K3 - KDVR bug?

Jim Brown-10
On 11/15/2010 5:12 PM, Barry Pfeil wrote:
> BUT, when using VOX, I've discovered that the message won't play if I try to
> start it (with the N1MM F-key or ENTER in ESM mode) while the PTT is still
> asserted from my earlier speaking.

During CQP, I used DVR for the first time on your rig.  I strongly
prefer VOX. The thing I found maddening is that if you BREATHE while the
DVR is playing, you'll kill DVR playback. That made it nearly unusable
for me.

 >Frankly, IMHO, the K3 manual stinks.

I agree. ALL good writing should tell a story.  The K3 manual does not
tell a story.  It's also disjointed, poorly indexed, and some stuff you
need to know can be very hard to find.

73, Jim K9YC
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Re: K3 - KDVR bug?

KK7P
In reply to this post by Barry Pfeil
Yes.

The DVR is after MIC GAIN and before filtering/processing, so it records
based on the mic gain setting, and plays back to the system at that same
exact level.

73,

Lyle KK7P

> ...In other words, changing the MIC gain during playback
> does NOT affect then playback level.  However, the DVR evidently stores
> UNCOMPRESSED audio because the compression DOES vary directly with the COMP
> control during DVR playback.  Again, is this normal/expected?

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Re: K3 - KDVR bug?

Barry Pfeil
Thanks, Lyle.  Why can't the manual make a simple clear statement like that???? 
How long has the KDVR been around?  Grumble, grumble...!
73, Barry K6RM


----- Original Message ----
From: Lyle Johnson <[hidden email]>
To: Barry Pfeil <[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Sent: Mon, November 15, 2010 6:22:41 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - KDVR bug?

Yes.

The DVR is after MIC GAIN and before filtering/processing, so it records based
on the mic gain setting, and plays back to the system at that same exact level.

73,

Lyle KK7P

> ...In other words, changing the MIC gain during playback
> does NOT affect then playback level.  However, the DVR evidently stores
> UNCOMPRESSED audio because the compression DOES vary directly with the COMP
> control during DVR playback.  Again, is this normal/expected?
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Re: K3 - KDVR bug?

N2TK
In reply to this post by KK7P
Tnx Lyle for the info. I am not saying this is a bug, but it would be nice
if the KDVR wasn't interrupted if you break VOX while it is transmitting.
You can talk to someone else in the shack while the recorded message is
playing. Kind of got spoiled using the recorder in N1MM which doesn't
interrupt the playback of a recorded message unless you hit ESC.
Using the KDVR is a simpler hookup with programming the F1-F4 keys in N1MM
rather than using the pc's audio card and less chance of feedback, hum and
other potential issues.

73,
N2TK, Tony


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Lyle Johnson
Sent: Monday, November 15, 2010 9:23 PM
To: Barry Pfeil
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - KDVR bug?

Yes.

The DVR is after MIC GAIN and before filtering/processing, so it records
based on the mic gain setting, and plays back to the system at that same
exact level.

73,

Lyle KK7P

> ...In other words, changing the MIC gain during playback
> does NOT affect then playback level.  However, the DVR evidently stores
> UNCOMPRESSED audio because the compression DOES vary directly with the
COMP
> control during DVR playback.  Again, is this normal/expected?

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Re: K3 - KDVR bug?

KK7P
VOX over-ride of the DVR was a specific design goal.

73,

Lyle KK7P

> Tnx Lyle for the info. I am not saying this is a bug, but it would be nice
> if the KDVR wasn't interrupted if you break VOX while it is transmitting.

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HI TEMP

OK1DF
In reply to this post by N2TK
HI,

I have got a problem with my K3/100 s/n 00245.

During OKOM contest, after cca 6 hours heavy duty pileup suddenly the
advice " HI TEMP" jump on and the KPA3 failed down.

And the situation is now still the same. Switch on, TX dots abt 15
second and KPA3 is death !!

Before CQ WW CW...............................................PSE help me...


Thank oyu,
Frantisek, OK1DF / OK7RY   ex 7X0RY
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Re: HI TEMP

pendulous
So I'm new to Elecraft and the reflector. I just purchased a K3 with all the fixins. Made a number of qso's-cw and ssb. Off to a good start and experience. Lot of learning to do. What amazes me is how small and light it is and yet full featured. I have a Ten Tec Orion II and it's a nice powerful radio. It's mammoth size compared to the K3, however.

Mike, AB4KJ



----- Original Message -----
From: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email] <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tue Nov 16 07:13:45 2010
Subject: [Elecraft] HI TEMP

HI,

I have got a problem with my K3/100 s/n 00245.

During OKOM contest, after cca 6 hours heavy duty pileup suddenly the
advice " HI TEMP" jump on and the KPA3 failed down.

And the situation is now still the same. Switch on, TX dots abt 15
second and KPA3 is death !!

Before CQ WW CW...............................................PSE help me...


Thank oyu,
Frantisek, OK1DF / OK7RY   ex 7X0RY
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Re: HI TEMP

OK1DF
In reply to this post by OK1DF
Jim,
tnx...
but fans are OK, all speeds works, and the tail of case is cold.

I tryed older and latest  firmware...no change...recalibrating......no
change

73,
Frantisek






Dne 16.11.2010 14:21, Jim Miller KG0KP napsal(a):

> Were your cooling fans running?  Will they run if you turn them on
> manually, all four speeds ??  Wondering if the PA burned up.  Just a
> thought.  73, Jim
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "OK1DF_w" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 7:13 AM
> Subject: [Elecraft] HI TEMP
>
>
>> HI,
>>
>> I have got a problem with my K3/100 s/n 00245.
>>
>> During OKOM contest, after cca 6 hours heavy duty pileup suddenly the
>> advice " HI TEMP" jump on and the KPA3 failed down.
>>
>> And the situation is now still the same. Switch on, TX dots abt 15
>> second and KPA3 is death !!
>>
>> Before CQ WW CW...............................................PSE
>> help me...
>>
>>
>> Thank oyu,
>> Frantisek, OK1DF / OK7RY   ex 7X0RY
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>
>
>
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Re: K3 - KDVR bug?

Barry Pfeil
In reply to this post by KK7P
Well, that eliminates using the K3 with VOX in the manner I described for
speaking the first (variable) part of a contest exchange and using the DVR for
the second (fixed) part as in Sweepstakes.  MY logic says that if the DVR can
start while PTT is activated by the footswitch it should do the same when the
PTT is activated by the VOX.  I hate to suggest it, but maybe this could be one
more option on the DVR operation?

73, Barry K6RM



----- Original Message ----
From: Lyle Johnson <[hidden email]>
To: "N2TK, Tony" <[hidden email]>
Cc: Barry Pfeil <[hidden email]>; Elecraft Reflector
<[hidden email]>
Sent: Tue, November 16, 2010 4:40:22 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - KDVR bug?

VOX over-ride of the DVR was a specific design goal.

73,

Lyle KK7P

> Tnx Lyle for the info. I am not saying this is a bug, but it would be nice
> if the KDVR wasn't interrupted if you break VOX while it is transmitting.
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Re: K3 - KDVR bug?

Jim Brown-10
In reply to this post by KK7P
On 11/16/2010 4:40 AM, Lyle Johnson wrote:
> VOX over-ride of the DVR was a specific design goal.

Whoever set that goal made a BIG mistake. At the very least, there
should be a software switch to disable it.

A MAJOR reason for using DVR is to allow you to slurp coffee or chew
munchies while you're sending an exchange or calling CQ.  If the live
mic stops DVR playback, it makes that virtually impossible.

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: K3 - KDVR bug?

N2TK
That is specifically why I would not want the VOX to interrupt the KDVR.
N2TK, Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 12:28 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - KDVR bug?

On 11/16/2010 4:40 AM, Lyle Johnson wrote:
> VOX over-ride of the DVR was a specific design goal.

Whoever set that goal made a BIG mistake. At the very least, there
should be a software switch to disable it.

A MAJOR reason for using DVR is to allow you to slurp coffee or chew
munchies while you're sending an exchange or calling CQ.  If the live
mic stops DVR playback, it makes that virtually impossible.

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: K3 - KDVR bug?

Doug Turnbull
It is handy in the event that the wrong message is being sent to interrupt
and over ride using voice input just as it is useful to be able to interrupt
a CW message with a simple tap of the paddle.  I find this especially true
in contests.   However the point about taking a slurp of coffee is a good
one.  We need an intelligent VOX system.

            73 Doug EI2CN  

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of N2TK, Tony
Sent: 16 November 2010 17:44
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - KDVR bug?

That is specifically why I would not want the VOX to interrupt the KDVR.
N2TK, Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 12:28 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - KDVR bug?

On 11/16/2010 4:40 AM, Lyle Johnson wrote:
> VOX over-ride of the DVR was a specific design goal.

Whoever set that goal made a BIG mistake. At the very least, there
should be a software switch to disable it.

A MAJOR reason for using DVR is to allow you to slurp coffee or chew
munchies while you're sending an exchange or calling CQ.  If the live
mic stops DVR playback, it makes that virtually impossible.

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: K3 - KDVR bug?

N2TK
How about being able to set it up like N1MM cancels the voice announcement -
use the ESC key? Or if you hit the same F key again before the KDVR is done
it stops sending?

N2TK, Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: Doug Turnbull [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 12:55 PM
To: 'N2TK, Tony'; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 - KDVR bug?

It is handy in the event that the wrong message is being sent to interrupt
and over ride using voice input just as it is useful to be able to interrupt
a CW message with a simple tap of the paddle.  I find this especially true
in contests.   However the point about taking a slurp of coffee is a good
one.  We need an intelligent VOX system.

            73 Doug EI2CN  

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of N2TK, Tony
Sent: 16 November 2010 17:44
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - KDVR bug?

That is specifically why I would not want the VOX to interrupt the KDVR.
N2TK, Tony

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 12:28 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - KDVR bug?

On 11/16/2010 4:40 AM, Lyle Johnson wrote:
> VOX over-ride of the DVR was a specific design goal.

Whoever set that goal made a BIG mistake. At the very least, there
should be a software switch to disable it.

A MAJOR reason for using DVR is to allow you to slurp coffee or chew
munchies while you're sending an exchange or calling CQ.  If the live
mic stops DVR playback, it makes that virtually impossible.

73, Jim K9YC


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Re: K3 - KDVR bug?

Iain MacDonnell - N6ML-2
In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
I pushed for the ability to interrupt DVR playback with PTT
(footswitch) activation, but I thought the way it ended up, the DVR
would start playing even if PTT was asserted, but would stop if PTT
was (re-)asserted after it had started playing. I don't have my K3
at-hand to try this at the moment. I expect VOX activation is
considered the same as PTT in this context, but not 100% sure... I
don't use VOX.

    ~Iain / N6ML


On Tue, Nov 16, 2010 at 5:28 PM, Jim Brown <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On 11/16/2010 4:40 AM, Lyle Johnson wrote:
>> VOX over-ride of the DVR was a specific design goal.
>
> Whoever set that goal made a BIG mistake. At the very least, there
> should be a software switch to disable it.
>
> A MAJOR reason for using DVR is to allow you to slurp coffee or chew
> munchies while you're sending an exchange or calling CQ.  If the live
> mic stops DVR playback, it makes that virtually impossible.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
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Re: K3 - KDVR bug?

Jack Brabham KZ5A
In reply to this post by Doug Turnbull
  I have a highly intelligent VOX system that always does what I want,
when I want...., it's called a foot-switch.

You can hear good examples of VOX operation by monitoring 14.070, hardly
an hour goes by without hearing someones dog barking, kids yelling, or
an incoming honey-do request.

I'd vote for a CONFIG option to completely disable VOX in SSB so I don't
accidentally turn it on when using the band switch, as has happened a
few times.

73 Jack KZ5A

K3 #4165


On 11/16/2010 11:55 AM, Doug Turnbull wrote:

> It is handy in the event that the wrong message is being sent to interrupt
> and over ride using voice input just as it is useful to be able to interrupt
> a CW message with a simple tap of the paddle.  I find this especially true
> in contests.   However the point about taking a slurp of coffee is a good
> one.  We need an intelligent VOX system.
>
>              73 Doug EI2CN
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of N2TK, Tony
> Sent: 16 November 2010 17:44
> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - KDVR bug?
>
> That is specifically why I would not want the VOX to interrupt the KDVR.
> N2TK, Tony
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim Brown
> Sent: Tuesday, November 16, 2010 12:28 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - KDVR bug?
>
> On 11/16/2010 4:40 AM, Lyle Johnson wrote:
>> VOX over-ride of the DVR was a specific design goal.
> Whoever set that goal made a BIG mistake. At the very least, there
> should be a software switch to disable it.
>
> A MAJOR reason for using DVR is to allow you to slurp coffee or chew
> munchies while you're sending an exchange or calling CQ.  If the live
> mic stops DVR playback, it makes that virtually impossible.
>
> 73, Jim K9YC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Re: K3 - KDVR bug?

k5oai
it's already there

hold down the left side of the BAND switch
until you see the VOX indicator go off

sorry just couldn't resist
have a great day

GB & 73
K5OAI
Sam Morgan

On 11/22/2010 10:27 AM, Jack Brabham wrote:

>    I have a highly intelligent VOX system that always does what I want,
> when I want...., it's called a foot-switch.
>
> You can hear good examples of VOX operation by monitoring 14.070, hardly
> an hour goes by without hearing someones dog barking, kids yelling, or
> an incoming honey-do request.
>
> I'd vote for a CONFIG option to completely disable VOX in SSB so I don't
> accidentally turn it on when using the band switch, as has happened a
> few times.
>
> 73 Jack KZ5A
>
> K3 #4165
>
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Re: K3 - KDVR bug?

Jack Brabham KZ5A
  Sam,

I take it that reading is not one of your strong suits.

Sorry just couldn't resist.

Have a great day

73 Jack KZ5A

K3 #4165



On 11/22/2010 1:41 PM, Sam Morgan wrote:

> it's already there
>
> hold down the left side of the BAND switch
> until you see the VOX indicator go off
>
> sorry just couldn't resist
> have a great day
>
> GB&  73
> K5OAI
> Sam Morgan
>
> On 11/22/2010 10:27 AM, Jack Brabham wrote:
>>     I have a highly intelligent VOX system that always does what I want,
>> when I want...., it's called a foot-switch.
>>
>> You can hear good examples of VOX operation by monitoring 14.070, hardly
>> an hour goes by without hearing someones dog barking, kids yelling, or
>> an incoming honey-do request.
>>
>> I'd vote for a CONFIG option to completely disable VOX in SSB so I don't
>> accidentally turn it on when using the band switch, as has happened a
>> few times.
>>
>> 73 Jack KZ5A
>>
>> K3 #4165
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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