K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem UPDATE

[Ray Coles]

As the original poster under this heading I figured you might be interested
to know what I have achieved so far, even though I am not yet ready to send
the white smoke up the chimney.  Briefly, my problem was that my KAT500
would go into uncommanded tunes during a QSO, usually on digital modes.The
practical result was that I had to restrict TX power to less than 40Watts on
most bands to avoid a burst from the Chicago Piano in the KAT. I had assumed
an antenna/feeder problem and had changed every last connector, wire, balun
and insulator in my system before asking for help from the Reflector Brains
Trust. All of the other people who subsequently reported a similar problem
made me feel a little better, and I also received a lot of diagnoses and
practical advice which I have followed or will follow soon. One of the
simplest was from Ron WB4OOA: Carry out a K3 Gain Calibration via the K3
Utility (I had to download the latest Utility version to make this work
properly) then Install the KAT500 V1.42 Beta (Not quite as easy as it
sounds). After this things were better, and my power setting on the K3
always appeared on the KPA500 wattmeter. I could now operate at higher power
on some bands but had to stay below 40W on 40m. I had also adjusted the per
band retune trigger SWRs upwards via the KAT500 Utility which also helped a
little.

I remain convinced though, that the basic trigger problem lies with the
antenna system (an OCF multiband dipole) and I am continuing to work on this
aspect using my analyser. Why it should have suddenly kicked off after many
months of solid performance, and why changing everything hasn't yet cured it
remains a mystery. My next steps are to try a choke balun on the feeder
(parts now to hand) and to prune the antenna to get a better resonance on
the bands of interest. Now if only this darn rain would stop! (I still think
some tweaking of the KAT500 software might also help!)

 

Ray Coles, C.Eng. M0XDL

10 Littlemoor Road,

Weymouth DT3 6AA

Tel: [phone]

Mob: [phone]

 

 

 

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[LA8OKA]

Hi Ray.
 
The OCF antennas are know to cause RF in the shack, and RF in the shack quite often result in strange behaviour from the radio equipment.
A choke balun may work, but a current balun with ferrite is far better.
Try to install 10-12 ferrites snap-ons on you're feedline as close to the feed point as possible, and try not to run the feedline parallel to the antenna wires.
Another alterntive may be to install a socalled line isolator like the MFJ-915 close to the feedpoint.
http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Product.php?productid=MFJ-915
The line isolator is a 1:1 current balun with ferrite, so it esential the same as the ferrite snap-ons in my first suggestion.

 Best regards,

Martin Storli
LA8OKA
Oslo, Norway
 
ARCTICPEAK's Radio pages!
http://www.arcticpeak.com/radio.htm
 

________________________________
 Fra: Ray Coles <[hidden email]>
Til: [hidden email]
Sendt: Onsdag, 8. januar 2014 11.57
Emne: [Elecraft] K3/KPA500/KAT500 SWR problem UPDATE
 

As the original poster under this heading I figured you might be interested
to know what I have achieved so far, even though I am not yet ready to send
the white smoke up the chimney.  Briefly, my problem was that my KAT500
would go into uncommanded tunes during a QSO, usually on digital modes.The
practical result was that I had to restrict TX power to less than 40Watts on
most bands to avoid a burst from the Chicago Piano in the KAT. I had assumed
an antenna/feeder problem and had changed every last connector, wire, balun
and insulator in my system before asking for help from the Reflector Brains
Trust. All of the other people who subsequently reported a similar problem
made me feel a little better, and I also received a lot of diagnoses and
practical advice which I have followed or will follow soon. One of the
simplest was from Ron WB4OOA: Carry out a K3 Gain Calibration via the K3
Utility (I had to download the latest Utility version to make this work
properly) then Install the KAT500 V1.42 Beta (Not quite as easy as it
sounds). After this things were better, and my power setting on the K3
always appeared on the KPA500 wattmeter. I could now operate at higher power
on some bands but had to stay below 40W on 40m. I had also adjusted the per
band retune trigger SWRs upwards via the KAT500 Utility which also helped a
little.

I remain convinced though, that the basic trigger problem lies with the
antenna system (an OCF multiband dipole) and I am continuing to work on this
aspect using my analyser. Why it should have suddenly kicked off after many
months of solid performance, and why changing everything hasn't yet cured it
remains a mystery. My next steps are to try a choke balun on the feeder
(parts now to hand) and to prune the antenna to get a better resonance on
the bands of interest. Now if only this darn rain would stop! (I still think
some tweaking of the KAT500 software might also help!)



Ray Coles, C.Eng. M0XDL

10 Littlemoor Road,

Weymouth DT3 6AA

Tel: [phone]

Mob: [phone]







______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net/
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Stephen G4SJP]

Ray,

Very interesting stuff, thanks.  As the user of an off-center fed doublet
myself, I was initially very nervous of running more than my usual 100W.
As it happened, I need not have worried, as I have never experienced the
problems you describe with the arrival of the KPA/KAT500.  The reason may
well be the choking I use on the doublet, and I suspect that you are on the
right track here.  I took a belt and braces approach to this a year or so
ago.  I have a drop of about 20 feet of 300 ohm 'balanced' feeder whereupon
a conversion to heavy duty coax is made via a choke balun based upon
GM3SEK's work - using the recommended ferrites, combining three different
chokes in series to cover the whole of the HF range.  It's very heavy and
physically quite large so I have it mounted in a box on a flat roof about
20 feet above the operating position.  The coax (short run) goes down to
the shack and through another 3 section choke balun on the back of the
amplifier.

GM3SEK's article is well worth a careful read.  Miscellaneous bits of
ferrite are likely to do nothing, and the combination of coaxial coils and
ferrite in Ian's design works extremely well in my experience.  An added
bonus was that it also reduced my local noise floor considerably.

http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek/in-prac/index.htm#1005

...is all you need.  In the UK you can get the ferrites from  Farnell in a
couple of days although they are quite expensive.  Accept no imitations!

73 Stephen G4SJP




On 8 January 2014 10:57, Ray Coles <[hidden email]> wrote:

> As the original poster under this heading I figured you might be interested
> to know what I have achieved so far, even though I am not yet ready to send
> the white smoke up the chimney.  Briefly, my problem was that my KAT500
> would go into uncommanded tunes during a QSO, usually on digital modes.The
> practical result was that I had to restrict TX power to less than 40Watts
> on
> most bands to avoid a burst from the Chicago Piano in the KAT. I had
> assumed
> an antenna/feeder problem and had changed every last connector, wire, balun
> and insulator in my system before asking for help from the Reflector Brains
> Trust. All of the other people who subsequently reported a similar problem
> made me feel a little better, and I also received a lot of diagnoses and
> practical advice which I have followed or will follow soon. One of the
> simplest was from Ron WB4OOA: Carry out a K3 Gain Calibration via the K3
> Utility (I had to download the latest Utility version to make this work
> properly) then Install the KAT500 V1.42 Beta (Not quite as easy as it
> sounds). After this things were better, and my power setting on the K3
> always appeared on the KPA500 wattmeter. I could now operate at higher
> power
> on some bands but had to stay below 40W on 40m. I had also adjusted the per
> band retune trigger SWRs upwards via the KAT500 Utility which also helped a
> little.
>
> I remain convinced though, that the basic trigger problem lies with the
> antenna system (an OCF multiband dipole) and I am continuing to work on
> this
> aspect using my analyser. Why it should have suddenly kicked off after many
> months of solid performance, and why changing everything hasn't yet cured
> it
> remains a mystery. My next steps are to try a choke balun on the feeder
> (parts now to hand) and to prune the antenna to get a better resonance on
> the bands of interest. Now if only this darn rain would stop! (I still
> think
> some tweaking of the KAT500 software might also help!)
>
>
>
> Ray Coles, C.Eng. M0XDL
>
> 10 Littlemoor Road,
>
> Weymouth DT3 6AA
>
> Tel: [phone]
>
> Mob: [phone]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Bill-3]

I don't believe it is an antenna or stray RF problem.

I have "memorized" tuner settings for the entire 75 meter band at 20 kc
steps. The K-Line is set up per instructions (although the manual
supplied by Elecraft is a little thin).

When I QSY, the KAT500 will click to a memory when I transmit (either by
using TUNE on the K3 or PTT and start talking). That is what I expect.

What happens next is not expected! While in QSO, the KAT500 will
suddenly retune. Normally, this retune will be a click or two (seeking a
known memory) and a light show on the KPA500 - followed by the tuner
settling down and the QSO continues. This is random and quite
disconcerting - sometimes happening several times during a single QSO.

A great amount of effort has been expended in checking and rechecking
the entire antenna system. I am using a normal dipole for 75 meters with
proper feedlines/connectors. There were no problems noted (not that I
expected any).

When using the same antenna system on other rigs - there have been NO
similar incidents to what the KAT500 does. Once the tuning or tune
memory is selected - there is no further tuner activity during a QSO. As
it should be.

Having learned how to do a trace report of the KAT500's tuning activity,
I am able to see what the tuner is doing when this happens. In simple
terms, it gets lost mid-QSO and the tuner activity noted is an attempt
to retune to the frequency it is sensing that frequency will not be what
your VFO is showing. When it settles back down, it will once again be
tuned to your current XMIT frequency. For some reason, the KAT500 senses
an incorrect XMIT frequency during the QSO.

I have been informed that a solution is being worked on by Elecraft.

Bill W2BLC  K-Line(?)




______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Gary Gregory-2]

If I may, I would like to weigh jn here wjth what I have been using.

I put up an OCF of 137ft approximately (memory issue) with the feed point
up about 37ft. I am set at 80/20  offset and I am using the dual core balun
from Balun Designs (usual denials...yada yada yada) and I have very few
issues with rf feedback and the k-line has behaved well.
There are issues with interferance from time to time on the portable TV
inside the motorhome so recently I added some snap on ferrite beads where I
thought they wouod work and this seems to have largely cleaned the station
up.
When connecting to ann80m dipole, all the rf issues disappear. The OCF
seems to work better on all bands over the 80m dipole although this is not
a scientific way to do this, however, the OCF is definately quieter on all
bands and I am happy with it.
73
Gary
On 08/01/2014 10:31 PM, "Stephen Prior" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Ray,
>
> Very interesting stuff, thanks.  As the user of an off-center fed doublet
> myself, I was initially very nervous of running more than my usual 100W.
> As it happened, I need not have worried, as I have never experienced the
> problems you describe with the arrival of the KPA/KAT500.  The reason may
> well be the choking I use on the doublet, and I suspect that you are on the
> right track here.  I took a belt and braces approach to this a year or so
> ago.  I have a drop of about 20 feet of 300 ohm 'balanced' feeder whereupon
> a conversion to heavy duty coax is made via a choke balun based upon
> GM3SEK's work - using the recommended ferrites, combining three different
> chokes in series to cover the whole of the HF range.  It's very heavy and
> physically quite large so I have it mounted in a box on a flat roof about
> 20 feet above the operating position.  The coax (short run) goes down to
> the shack and through another 3 section choke balun on the back of the
> amplifier.
>
> GM3SEK's article is well worth a careful read.  Miscellaneous bits of
> ferrite are likely to do nothing, and the combination of coaxial coils and
> ferrite in Ian's design works extremely well in my experience.  An added
> bonus was that it also reduced my local noise floor considerably.
>
> http://www.ifwtech.co.uk/g3sek/in-prac/index.htm#1005
>
> ...is all you need.  In the UK you can get the ferrites from  Farnell in a
> couple of days although they are quite expensive.  Accept no imitations!
>
> 73 Stephen G4SJP
>
>
>
>
> On 8 January 2014 10:57, Ray Coles <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > As the original poster under this heading I figured you might be
> interested
> > to know what I have achieved so far, even though I am not yet ready to
> send
> > the white smoke up the chimney.  Briefly, my problem was that my KAT500
> > would go into uncommanded tunes during a QSO, usually on digital
> modes.The
> > practical result was that I had to restrict TX power to less than 40Watts
> > on
> > most bands to avoid a burst from the Chicago Piano in the KAT. I had
> > assumed
> > an antenna/feeder problem and had changed every last connector, wire,
> balun
> > and insulator in my system before asking for help from the Reflector
> Brains
> > Trust. All of the other people who subsequently reported a similar
> problem
> > made me feel a little better, and I also received a lot of diagnoses and
> > practical advice which I have followed or will follow soon. One of the
> > simplest was from Ron WB4OOA: Carry out a K3 Gain Calibration via the K3
> > Utility (I had to download the latest Utility version to make this work
> > properly) then Install the KAT500 V1.42 Beta (Not quite as easy as it
> > sounds). After this things were better, and my power setting on the K3
> > always appeared on the KPA500 wattmeter. I could now operate at higher
> > power
> > on some bands but had to stay below 40W on 40m. I had also adjusted the
> per
> > band retune trigger SWRs upwards via the KAT500 Utility which also
> helped a
> > little.
> >
> > I remain convinced though, that the basic trigger problem lies with the
> > antenna system (an OCF multiband dipole) and I am continuing to work on
> > this
> > aspect using my analyser. Why it should have suddenly kicked off after
> many
> > months of solid performance, and why changing everything hasn't yet cured
> > it
> > remains a mystery. My next steps are to try a choke balun on the feeder
> > (parts now to hand) and to prune the antenna to get a better resonance on
> > the bands of interest. Now if only this darn rain would stop! (I still
> > think
> > some tweaking of the KAT500 software might also help!)
> >
> >
> >
> > Ray Coles, C.Eng. M0XDL
> >
> > 10 Littlemoor Road,
> >
> > Weymouth DT3 6AA
> >
> > Tel: [phone]
> >
> > Mob: [phone]
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Jim Brown-10]

On 1/8/2014 3:24 AM, Martin Storli - LA8OKA wrote:
> The OCF antennas are know to cause RF in the shack, and RF in the shack quite often result in strange behaviour from the radio equipment.

Correct.  Because they are badly unbalanced, they also pick up lots of
RX noise.

> A choke balun may work, but a current balun with ferrite is far better.

A ferrite choke is far more effective at solving both the noise and the
RF in the shack.  BUT off-center fed antennas, because they are badly
unbalanced, establish very high common mode voltages across the choke.
As a result, there is a high mortality rate with chokes on
off-center-fed antennas. In other words, a ferrite choke on an OCF
antenna is quite likely to fry with power.

OCF antennas are an old idea whose time has passed. They should be
avoided, unless, of course, you happen to live in an alternate universe
where RX noise and RF in the shack are not a problem. :)

73, Jim K9YC



______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Buck - k4ia]

An OCF is an unbalanced antenna and it must have a choke to keep RF off
the feed line into the shack.  I use about ten turns of coax on a 4 inch
PVC pipe right outside the wall where the feed comes into the house.  It
might be more or less, I am not at home to look. You can research it.  
Other choke baluns would help, if they present a high enough impedance.

That seems to have cured RFI problems for me but I have occasionally
felt like I needed more isolation.  Many people have advised me to get
rid of the OCF and go with something balanced but it suits my multi-band
needs for now.

I am pretty sure RF on the feed line would cause the tuning circuits in
the KAT to act crazy.  I'll leave that one for the Elecraft gurus to
answer.

Buck
k4ia

On 1/8/2014 5:57 AM, Ray Coles wrote:

> As the original poster under this heading I figured you might be interested
> to know what I have achieved so far, even though I am not yet ready to send
> the white smoke up the chimney.  Briefly, my problem was that my KAT500
> would go into uncommanded tunes during a QSO, usually on digital modes.The
> practical result was that I had to restrict TX power to less than 40Watts on
> most bands to avoid a burst from the Chicago Piano in the KAT. I had assumed
> an antenna/feeder problem and had changed every last connector, wire, balun
> and insulator in my system before asking for help from the Reflector Brains
> Trust. All of the other people who subsequently reported a similar problem
> made me feel a little better, and I also received a lot of diagnoses and
> practical advice which I have followed or will follow soon. One of the
> simplest was from Ron WB4OOA: Carry out a K3 Gain Calibration via the K3
> Utility (I had to download the latest Utility version to make this work
> properly) then Install the KAT500 V1.42 Beta (Not quite as easy as it
> sounds). After this things were better, and my power setting on the K3
> always appeared on the KPA500 wattmeter. I could now operate at higher power
> on some bands but had to stay below 40W on 40m. I had also adjusted the per
> band retune trigger SWRs upwards via the KAT500 Utility which also helped a
> little.
>
> I remain convinced though, that the basic trigger problem lies with the
> antenna system (an OCF multiband dipole) and I am continuing to work on this
> aspect using my analyser. Why it should have suddenly kicked off after many
> months of solid performance, and why changing everything hasn't yet cured it
> remains a mystery. My next steps are to try a choke balun on the feeder
> (parts now to hand) and to prune the antenna to get a better resonance on
> the bands of interest. Now if only this darn rain would stop! (I still think
> some tweaking of the KAT500 software might also help!)
>
>  
>
> Ray Coles, C.Eng. M0XDL
>
> 10 Littlemoor Road,
>
> Weymouth DT3 6AA
>
> Tel: [phone]
>
> Mob: [phone]
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[Bill-3]

I have used OCF antennas in the past and currently have on up that is
fed with 600 ohm line and a balun for the coax transition to come in the
house. It is a fine all band - 160-10 - antenna causing no RF problems
in my shack. Although I rarely use this antenna, I hooked it up today
and find the KAT500 misbehaves with this antenna the same as it does
with a proper dipole. No joy!

The OCF does, however, work well with my other auto-tune rigs. No
hiccups noted.

Bill W2BLC K-Line(?)


______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

[N5GE]

If you are working the bands 30m and below and have the room you can
use inverted V antennas that all have the same feed point.  The power
will be distributed to the the antenna that is resonent at the
transmit frequency.

Until I was able to get room and funds for rotable antennas and
longer wire antennas I used inverted V antennas fed from the same
point.



On Wed, 08 Jan 2014 15:45:48 -0500, you wrote:

>An OCF is an unbalanced antenna and it must have a choke to keep RF off
>the feed line into the shack.  I use about ten turns of coax on a 4 inch
>PVC pipe right outside the wall where the feed comes into the house.  It
>might be more or less, I am not at home to look. You can research it.  
>Other choke baluns would help, if they present a high enough impedance.
>
>That seems to have cured RFI problems for me but I have occasionally
>felt like I needed more isolation.  Many people have advised me to get
>rid of the OCF and go with something balanced but it suits my multi-band
>needs for now.
>
>I am pretty sure RF on the feed line would cause the tuning circuits in
>the KAT to act crazy.  I'll leave that one for the Elecraft gurus to
>answer.
>
>Buck
>k4ia
>
>On 1/8/2014 5:57 AM, Ray Coles wrote:
>> As the original poster under this heading I figured you might be interested
>> to know what I have achieved so far, even though I am not yet ready to send
>> the white smoke up the chimney.  Briefly, my problem was that my KAT500
>> would go into uncommanded tunes during a QSO, usually on digital modes.The
>> practical result was that I had to restrict TX power to less than 40Watts on
>> most bands to avoid a burst from the Chicago Piano in the KAT. I had assumed
>> an antenna/feeder problem and had changed every last connector, wire, balun
>> and insulator in my system before asking for help from the Reflector Brains
>> Trust. All of the other people who subsequently reported a similar problem
>> made me feel a little better, and I also received a lot of diagnoses and
>> practical advice which I have followed or will follow soon. One of the
>> simplest was from Ron WB4OOA: Carry out a K3 Gain Calibration via the K3
>> Utility (I had to download the latest Utility version to make this work
>> properly) then Install the KAT500 V1.42 Beta (Not quite as easy as it
>> sounds). After this things were better, and my power setting on the K3
>> always appeared on the KPA500 wattmeter. I could now operate at higher power
>> on some bands but had to stay below 40W on 40m. I had also adjusted the per
>> band retune trigger SWRs upwards via the KAT500 Utility which also helped a
>> little.
>>
>> I remain convinced though, that the basic trigger problem lies with the
>> antenna system (an OCF multiband dipole) and I am continuing to work on this
>> aspect using my analyser. Why it should have suddenly kicked off after many
>> months of solid performance, and why changing everything hasn't yet cured it
>> remains a mystery. My next steps are to try a choke balun on the feeder
>> (parts now to hand) and to prune the antenna to get a better resonance on
>> the bands of interest. Now if only this darn rain would stop! (I still think
>> some tweaking of the KAT500 software might also help!)
>>
>>  
>>
>> Ray Coles, C.Eng. M0XDL
>>
>> 10 Littlemoor Road,
>>
>> Weymouth DT3 6AA
>>
>> Tel: [phone]
>>
>> Mob: [phone]
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Amateure Radio Operator N5GE

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html