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K3<-->KPA500 Request

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Jim Bennett

K3<-->KPA500 Request

I use MacLoggerDX (MLDX) for QSO logging, among other tasks. It interfaces very nicely between my K3 and the MacBook Air laptop. The K3 passes a lot of data (including power output level) to MLDX and it winds up in my log. However, when I'm using the KPA500, the K3 only sends the driving power that it outputs to the amp. What I wind up with in my log is incorrect. For example, if the KPA500 is in OPERATE mode and I log a QSO, it'll get reported as a QSO made using 25 watts or power, instead of the 450 - 500 that the amp is putting out. Since the K3 and the KPA500 "speak the same language" and talk to each other, can the firmware be changed so that the K3 sends corrected Power Out level to the output data port when the KPA500 is engaged? As it is now, I have to go back into MLDX after every QRO contact and change the power field to reflect the actual power and not the K3's driving power.

Regards, Jim / W6JHB
Folsom, CA
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Jack Brindle-2

Re: K3<-->KPA500 Request

Jim;

The KPA does not send its output power information to the K3, so the K3 would just be guessing. The measured output power _is_ available from the KPA500's serial port, so it would be much better if MacLoggerDX were to get this information directly from the amplifier. Make a request to the author to get him to add KPA500 control to the program. I'll even volunteer to help Don if he needs it (doubtful - he is good).

Jack Brindle, W6FB

On Feb 29, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Jim Bennett wrote:

> I use MacLoggerDX (MLDX) for QSO logging, among other tasks. It interfaces very nicely between my K3 and the MacBook Air laptop. The K3 passes a lot of data (including power output level) to MLDX and it winds up in my log. However, when I'm using the KPA500, the K3 only sends the driving power that it outputs to the amp. What I wind up with in my log is incorrect. For example, if the KPA500 is in OPERATE mode and I log a QSO, it'll get reported as a QSO made using 25 watts or power, instead of the 450 - 500 that the amp is putting out. Since the K3 and the KPA500 "speak the same language" and talk to each other, can the firmware be changed so that the K3 sends corrected Power Out level to the output data port when the KPA500 is engaged? As it is now, I have to go back into MLDX after every QRO contact and change the power field to reflect the actual power and not the K3's driving power.
>
> Regards, Jim / W6JHB
> Folsom, CA
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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Jim Bennett

Re: K3<-->KPA500 Request

Yes, but wouldn't that require having a serial connection to the KPA500 from MLDX - one that we don't currently have? We've already got one to the K3. I had hoped that, since the KPA500 already communicates, bi-directionally, with the K3, that they could be "changed" to (1) have the KPA500 send power level data to the K3, and (2) have the K3 report that, rather than it's own power. :-)

Jim / W6JHB

On Wednesday, Feb 29, 2012, at Wednesday, 11:04 PM, Jack Brindle wrote:

> Jim;
>
> The KPA does not send its output power information to the K3, so the K3 would just be guessing. The measured output power _is_ available from the KPA500's serial port, so it would be much better if MacLoggerDX were to get this information directly from the amplifier. Make a request to the author to get him to add KPA500 control to the program. I'll even volunteer to help Don if he needs it (doubtful - he is good).
>
> Jack Brindle, W6FB
>
>
> On Feb 29, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Jim Bennett wrote:
>
>> I use MacLoggerDX (MLDX) for QSO logging, among other tasks. It interfaces very nicely between my K3 and the MacBook Air laptop. The K3 passes a lot of data (including power output level) to MLDX and it winds up in my log. However, when I'm using the KPA500, the K3 only sends the driving power that it outputs to the amp. What I wind up with in my log is incorrect. For example, if the KPA500 is in OPERATE mode and I log a QSO, it'll get reported as a QSO made using 25 watts or power, instead of the 450 - 500 that the amp is putting out. Since the K3 and the KPA500 "speak the same language" and talk to each other, can the firmware be changed so that the K3 sends corrected Power Out level to the output data port when the KPA500 is engaged? As it is now, I have to go back into MLDX after every QRO contact and change the power field to reflect the actual power and not the K3's driving power.
>>
>> Regards, Jim / W6JHB
>> Folsom, CA
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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Phil Hystad-3

Re: K3<-->KPA500 Request

In reply to this post by Jack Brindle-2

I am also a MacLoggerDX user...

If the KPA500 knows the output power well enough to make it available on its own serial port then why can't it send that info back to the K3 through the K3-KPA500 interface. I think the original request is a one with good technical merit that could be implemented -- maybe without too much hassle by the Elecraft programmer(s).

73, phil, K7PEH

On Feb 29, 2012, at 11:04 PM, Jack Brindle wrote:

Bill N2BC

Re: K3<-->KPA500 Request

The program is reading the power SETTING on the K3 - not the K3 output power
- is available regardless of mode or if the K3 is transmitting or receiving.
The KPA500's "power" data is essentially RF forward power and would be an
instantaneous reading... so if the data is requested while in RX the result
is zero...

Bill N2BC

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil Hystad
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 9:21 AM
To: Jack Brindle
Cc: Elecraft Reflector
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3<-->KPA500 Request

I am also a MacLoggerDX user...

If the KPA500 knows the output power well enough to make it available on its
own serial port then why can't it send that info back to the K3 through the
K3-KPA500 interface. I think the original request is a one with good
technical merit that could be implemented -- maybe without too much hassle
by the Elecraft programmer(s).

73, phil, K7PEH

On Feb 29, 2012, at 11:04 PM, Jack Brindle wrote:

> Jim;
>
> The KPA does not send its output power information to the K3, so the K3
would just be guessing. The measured output power _is_ available from the
KPA500's serial port, so it would be much better if MacLoggerDX were to get
this information directly from the amplifier. Make a request to the author
to get him to add KPA500 control to the program. I'll even volunteer to help
Don if he needs it (doubtful - he is good).
>
> Jack Brindle, W6FB
>
>
> On Feb 29, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Jim Bennett wrote:
>
>> I use MacLoggerDX (MLDX) for QSO logging, among other tasks. It
interfaces very nicely between my K3 and the MacBook Air laptop. The K3
passes a lot of data (including power output level) to MLDX and it winds up
in my log. However, when I'm using the KPA500, the K3 only sends the driving
power that it outputs to the amp. What I wind up with in my log is
incorrect. For example, if the KPA500 is in OPERATE mode and I log a QSO,
it'll get reported as a QSO made using 25 watts or power, instead of the 450
- 500 that the amp is putting out. Since the K3 and the KPA500 "speak the
same language" and talk to each other, can the firmware be changed so that
the K3 sends corrected Power Out level to the output data port when the
KPA500 is engaged? As it is now, I have to go back into MLDX after every QRO
contact and change the power field to reflect the actual power and not the
K3's driving power.

>>
>> Regards, Jim / W6JHB
>> Folsom, CA
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

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Jim Sheldon

Re: K3<-->KPA500 Request

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

The KPA500 does not communicate with the K3 via the serial port, only through the K3's AuxBus so that data is not available to external devices. Don't know if the programmers could make it available or not.

The RS-232 port on the KPA500 is used only for programming the firmware in the amp

> I am also a MacLoggerDX user...
>
> If the KPA500 knows the output power well enough to make it
> available on its own serial port then why can't it send that info
> back to the K3 through the K3-KPA500 interface. I think the
> original request is a one with good technical merit that could be
> implemented -- maybe without too much hassle by the Elecraft
> programmer(s).
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
>
> On Feb 29, 2012, at 11:04 PM, Jack Brindle wrote:
>
>> Jim;
>>
>> The KPA does not send its output power information to the K3, so
>> the K3 would just be guessing. The measured output power _is_
>> available from the KPA500's serial port, so it would be much
>> better if MacLoggerDX were to get this information directly from
>> the amplifier. Make a request to the author to get him to add
>> KPA500 control to the program. I'll even volunteer to help Don if
>> he needs it (doubtful - he is good).
>>
>> Jack Brindle, W6FB
>>
>>
>> On Feb 29, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Jim Bennett wrote:
>>
>>> I use MacLoggerDX (MLDX) for QSO logging, among other tasks. It
>>> interfaces very nicely between my K3 and the MacBook Air
>>> laptop. The K3 passes a lot of data (including power output
>>> level) to MLDX and it winds up in my log. However, when I'm
>>> using the KPA500, the K3 only sends the driving power that it
>>> outputs to the amp. What I wind up with in my log is incorrect.
>>> For example, if the KPA500 is in OPERATE mode and I log a QSO,
>>> it'll get reported as a QSO made using 25 watts or power,
>>> instead of the 450 - 500 that the amp is putting out. Since the
>>> K3 and the KPA500 "speak the same language" and talk to each
>>> other, can the firmware be changed so that the K3 sends
>>> corrected Power Out level to the output data port when the
>>> KPA500 is engaged? As it is now, I have to go back into MLDX
>>> after every QRO contact and change the power field to reflect
>>> the actual power and not the K3's driving power.
>>>
>>> Regards, Jim / W6JHB
>>> Folsom, CA
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list:
>>> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list:
>> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Phil Hystad-3

Re: K3<-->KPA500 Request

In reply to this post by Bill N2BC

It still seems to be a useful feature. I mean, you usually only "read" the power level when transmitting anyway, at least that is what I do. So, this is how it could work that would satisfy me. Given a K3 power setting, the output power of the KPA500 is read when transmitting which can be saved in memory on the K3 and thus available via the programming interface. If the K3 power setting is changed, or other changes such as band changes and so on occur, then this KPA500 power setting can be cleared to zero until the K3 transmits again using the KPA500 and thus getting a new value. Not a perfect solution but it seems to be able to work in most situations.

phil, K7PEH

On Mar 1, 2012, at 6:41 AM, N2BC wrote:

> The program is reading the power SETTING on the K3 - not the K3 output power
> - is available regardless of mode or if the K3 is transmitting or receiving.
> The KPA500's "power" data is essentially RF forward power and would be an
> instantaneous reading... so if the data is requested while in RX the result
> is zero...
>
> Bill N2BC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil Hystad
> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 9:21 AM
> To: Jack Brindle
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3<-->KPA500 Request
>
> I am also a MacLoggerDX user...
>
> If the KPA500 knows the output power well enough to make it available on its
> own serial port then why can't it send that info back to the K3 through the
> K3-KPA500 interface. I think the original request is a one with good
> technical merit that could be implemented -- maybe without too much hassle
> by the Elecraft programmer(s).
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
>
> On Feb 29, 2012, at 11:04 PM, Jack Brindle wrote:
>
>> Jim;
>>
>> The KPA does not send its output power information to the K3, so the K3
> would just be guessing. The measured output power _is_ available from the
> KPA500's serial port, so it would be much better if MacLoggerDX were to get
> this information directly from the amplifier. Make a request to the author
> to get him to add KPA500 control to the program. I'll even volunteer to help
> Don if he needs it (doubtful - he is good).
>>
>> Jack Brindle, W6FB
>>
>>
>> On Feb 29, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Jim Bennett wrote:
>>
>>> I use MacLoggerDX (MLDX) for QSO logging, among other tasks. It
> interfaces very nicely between my K3 and the MacBook Air laptop. The K3
> passes a lot of data (including power output level) to MLDX and it winds up
> in my log. However, when I'm using the KPA500, the K3 only sends the driving
> power that it outputs to the amp. What I wind up with in my log is
> incorrect. For example, if the KPA500 is in OPERATE mode and I log a QSO,
> it'll get reported as a QSO made using 25 watts or power, instead of the 450
> - 500 that the amp is putting out. Since the K3 and the KPA500 "speak the
> same language" and talk to each other, can the firmware be changed so that
> the K3 sends corrected Power Out level to the output data port when the
> KPA500 is engaged? As it is now, I have to go back into MLDX after every QRO
> contact and change the power field to reflect the actual power and not the
> K3's driving power.
>>>
>>> Regards, Jim / W6JHB
>>> Folsom, CA
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Phil Hystad-3

Re: K3<-->KPA500 Request

In reply to this post by Jim Sheldon

Yes, I know the KPA500 only communicates via the auxbus but it does send other information so why not power level.

On Mar 1, 2012, at 6:44 AM, Jim Sheldon wrote:

> The KPA500 does not communicate with the K3 via the serial port, only through the K3's AuxBus so that data is not available to external devices. Don't know if the programmers could make it available or not.
>
> The RS-232 port on the KPA500 is used only for programming the firmware in the amp
>
>> I am also a MacLoggerDX user...
>>
>> If the KPA500 knows the output power well enough to make it
>> available on its own serial port then why can't it send that info
>> back to the K3 through the K3-KPA500 interface. I think the
>> original request is a one with good technical merit that could be
>> implemented -- maybe without too much hassle by the Elecraft
>> programmer(s).
>>
>> 73, phil, K7PEH
>>
>>
>> On Feb 29, 2012, at 11:04 PM, Jack Brindle wrote:
>>
>>> Jim;
>>>
>>> The KPA does not send its output power information to the K3, so
>>> the K3 would just be guessing. The measured output power _is_
>>> available from the KPA500's serial port, so it would be much
>>> better if MacLoggerDX were to get this information directly from
>>> the amplifier. Make a request to the author to get him to add
>>> KPA500 control to the program. I'll even volunteer to help Don if
>>> he needs it (doubtful - he is good).
>>>
>>> Jack Brindle, W6FB
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 29, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Jim Bennett wrote:
>>>
>>>> I use MacLoggerDX (MLDX) for QSO logging, among other tasks. It
>>>> interfaces very nicely between my K3 and the MacBook Air
>>>> laptop. The K3 passes a lot of data (including power output
>>>> level) to MLDX and it winds up in my log. However, when I'm
>>>> using the KPA500, the K3 only sends the driving power that it
>>>> outputs to the amp. What I wind up with in my log is incorrect.
>>>> For example, if the KPA500 is in OPERATE mode and I log a QSO,
>>>> it'll get reported as a QSO made using 25 watts or power,
>>>> instead of the 450 - 500 that the amp is putting out. Since the
>>>> K3 and the KPA500 "speak the same language" and talk to each
>>>> other, can the firmware be changed so that the K3 sends
>>>> corrected Power Out level to the output data port when the
>>>> KPA500 is engaged? As it is now, I have to go back into MLDX
>>>> after every QRO contact and change the power field to reflect
>>>> the actual power and not the K3's driving power.
>>>>
>>>> Regards, Jim / W6JHB
>>>> Folsom, CA
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>>
>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>>> Please help support this email list:
>>>> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list:
>>> http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Bill N2BC

Re: K3<-->KPA500 Request

In reply to this post by Phil Hystad-3

"when transmitting" is the problem... key the mic and say nothing: the
program could determing the TX mode but the output is zero. I suppose
the KPA500 could simulate a peak-hold power function, but the
implementation would have to be in the KPA firmware, the K3 firmware and
probably in the application program. I just write "500" in my log.

-----Original Message-----
From: Phil Hystad [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 9:58 AM
To: [hidden email]
Cc: 'Jack Brindle'; 'Elecraft Reflector'
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3<-->KPA500 Request

It still seems to be a useful feature. I mean, you usually only "read" the
power level when transmitting anyway, at least that is what I do. So, this
is how it could work that would satisfy me. Given a K3 power setting, the
output power of the KPA500 is read when transmitting which can be saved in
memory on the K3 and thus available via the programming interface. If the
K3 power setting is changed, or other changes such as band changes and so on
occur, then this KPA500 power setting can be cleared to zero until the K3
transmits again using the KPA500 and thus getting a new value. Not a
perfect solution but it seems to be able to work in most situations.

phil, K7PEH

On Mar 1, 2012, at 6:41 AM, N2BC wrote:

> The program is reading the power SETTING on the K3 - not the K3 output
> power
> - is available regardless of mode or if the K3 is transmitting or
receiving.

> The KPA500's "power" data is essentially RF forward power and would be
> an instantaneous reading... so if the data is requested while in RX
> the result is zero...
>
> Bill N2BC
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil Hystad
> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 9:21 AM
> To: Jack Brindle
> Cc: Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3<-->KPA500 Request
>
> I am also a MacLoggerDX user...
>
> If the KPA500 knows the output power well enough to make it available
> on its own serial port then why can't it send that info back to the K3
> through the
> K3-KPA500 interface. I think the original request is a one with good
> technical merit that could be implemented -- maybe without too much
> hassle by the Elecraft programmer(s).
>
> 73, phil, K7PEH
>
>
> On Feb 29, 2012, at 11:04 PM, Jack Brindle wrote:
>
>> Jim;
>>
>> The KPA does not send its output power information to the K3, so the
>> K3
> would just be guessing. The measured output power _is_ available from
> the KPA500's serial port, so it would be much better if MacLoggerDX
> were to get this information directly from the amplifier. Make a
> request to the author to get him to add KPA500 control to the program.
> I'll even volunteer to help Don if he needs it (doubtful - he is good).
>>
>> Jack Brindle, W6FB
>>
>>
>> On Feb 29, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Jim Bennett wrote:
>>
>>> I use MacLoggerDX (MLDX) for QSO logging, among other tasks. It
> interfaces very nicely between my K3 and the MacBook Air laptop. The
> K3 passes a lot of data (including power output level) to MLDX and it
> winds up in my log. However, when I'm using the KPA500, the K3 only
> sends the driving power that it outputs to the amp. What I wind up
> with in my log is incorrect. For example, if the KPA500 is in OPERATE
> mode and I log a QSO, it'll get reported as a QSO made using 25 watts
> or power, instead of the 450
> - 500 that the amp is putting out. Since the K3 and the KPA500 "speak
> the same language" and talk to each other, can the firmware be changed
> so that the K3 sends corrected Power Out level to the output data port
> when the
> KPA500 is engaged? As it is now, I have to go back into MLDX after
> every QRO contact and change the power field to reflect the actual
> power and not the K3's driving power.
>>>
>>> Regards, Jim / W6JHB
>>> Folsom, CA
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>>> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>> email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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Rick Prather-2

Re: K3<-->KPA500 Request

Not ideal, but perhaps Don could add a drop down menu in the info panel so you can set the power level when you are using your amp like RUMlog does.

Rick
K6LE

On Feb 29, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Jim Bennett wrote:

> "I use MacLoggerDX (MLDX) for QSO logging, among other tasks. It
interfaces very nicely between my K3 and the MacBook Air laptop. The
K3 passes a lot of data (including power output level) to MLDX and it
winds up in my log. However, when I'm using the KPA500, the K3 only
sends the driving power that it outputs to the amp. What I wind up
with in my log is incorrect. For example, if the KPA500 is in OPERATE
mode and I log a QSO, it'll get reported as a QSO made using 25 watts
or power, instead of the 450
- 500 that the amp is putting out. Since the K3 and the KPA500 "speak
the same language" and talk to each other, can the firmware be changed
so that the K3 sends corrected Power Out level to the output data port
when the
KPA500 is engaged? As it is now, I have to go back into MLDX after
every QRO contact and change the power field to reflect the actual
power and not the K3's driving power."
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Jack Brindle-2

Re: K3<-->KPA500 Request

In reply to this post by Bill N2BC

It seems a bit more information is needed here. First, communications between the K3 and KPA is essentially one-way - it goes from the KPA to the K3. While that is the right direction for this kind of information, we run into a problem rather quickly. Auxbus communication tends to be slow and very disruptive to the K3, especially during transmit. We send a minimal amount of information to the K3 in order to avoid problems (none during transmit). It would take major modifications to the Auxbus protocol to move this particular data to the K3 (more and longer data packets), breaking the "not during transmit" edict. The results would not give a satisfactory user experience.

The serial port on the KPA does have this information available (note to W0EB, take a look at the KPA Programming Reference at the Elecraft site) and is the right place for a computer to obtain the info. Using an additional serial port to communicate with, and control, the KPA is actually a good thing - very useful information is available, and you never know when we might release an update (ok, probably not very often).

I am also a Mac person / developer. My Mac mini has a four port FTDI adapter attached. I use three of the ports in my station (so far). One for the K3, a second for the KPA and a third for my KRC2. This allows me to monitor and control my station very well, without encumbering the individual components (notably the K3). How hard would it be for Don to add KPA500 support to MLDX? From my (extensive) experience in Mac development, it should not very difficult at all. You just need to talk him into adding it. Or use W4SMT's fine KPA500 Utility available at the Elecraft web site. It will monitor the KPA quite nicely in a window independent from MLDX. Of course it won't log the power level for you in the MLDX log - only MLDX can do that.

I hope this answers your questions, and explains why the information is not available. At Elecraft we are all about User Experience, providing the best possible. Wayne and Eric have instilled that in not just the products but all the people of Elecraft. We do all we can to make sure things work the way they are supposed to.

Jack Brindle, W6FB
Elecraft Engineering

On Mar 1, 2012, at 7:43 AM, N2BC wrote:

> "when transmitting" is the problem... key the mic and say nothing: the
> program could determing the TX mode but the output is zero. I suppose
> the KPA500 could simulate a peak-hold power function, but the
> implementation would have to be in the KPA firmware, the K3 firmware and
> probably in the application program. I just write "500" in my log.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Phil Hystad [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 9:58 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Cc: 'Jack Brindle'; 'Elecraft Reflector'
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3<-->KPA500 Request
>
> It still seems to be a useful feature. I mean, you usually only "read" the
> power level when transmitting anyway, at least that is what I do. So, this
> is how it could work that would satisfy me. Given a K3 power setting, the
> output power of the KPA500 is read when transmitting which can be saved in
> memory on the K3 and thus available via the programming interface. If the
> K3 power setting is changed, or other changes such as band changes and so on
> occur, then this KPA500 power setting can be cleared to zero until the K3
> transmits again using the KPA500 and thus getting a new value. Not a
> perfect solution but it seems to be able to work in most situations.
>
> phil, K7PEH
>
>
> On Mar 1, 2012, at 6:41 AM, N2BC wrote:
>
>> The program is reading the power SETTING on the K3 - not the K3 output
>> power
>> - is available regardless of mode or if the K3 is transmitting or
> receiving.
>> The KPA500's "power" data is essentially RF forward power and would be
>> an instantaneous reading... so if the data is requested while in RX
>> the result is zero...
>>
>> Bill N2BC
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Phil Hystad
>> Sent: Thursday, March 01, 2012 9:21 AM
>> To: Jack Brindle
>> Cc: Elecraft Reflector
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3<-->KPA500 Request
>>
>> I am also a MacLoggerDX user...
>>
>> If the KPA500 knows the output power well enough to make it available
>> on its own serial port then why can't it send that info back to the K3
>> through the
>> K3-KPA500 interface. I think the original request is a one with good
>> technical merit that could be implemented -- maybe without too much
>> hassle by the Elecraft programmer(s).
>>
>> 73, phil, K7PEH
>>
>>
>> On Feb 29, 2012, at 11:04 PM, Jack Brindle wrote:
>>
>>> Jim;
>>>
>>> The KPA does not send its output power information to the K3, so the
>>> K3
>> would just be guessing. The measured output power _is_ available from
>> the KPA500's serial port, so it would be much better if MacLoggerDX
>> were to get this information directly from the amplifier. Make a
>> request to the author to get him to add KPA500 control to the program.
>> I'll even volunteer to help Don if he needs it (doubtful - he is good).
>>>
>>> Jack Brindle, W6FB
>>>
>>>
>>> On Feb 29, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Jim Bennett wrote:
>>>
>>>> I use MacLoggerDX (MLDX) for QSO logging, among other tasks. It
>> interfaces very nicely between my K3 and the MacBook Air laptop. The
>> K3 passes a lot of data (including power output level) to MLDX and it
>> winds up in my log. However, when I'm using the KPA500, the K3 only
>> sends the driving power that it outputs to the amp. What I wind up
>> with in my log is incorrect. For example, if the KPA500 is in OPERATE
>> mode and I log a QSO, it'll get reported as a QSO made using 25 watts
>> or power, instead of the 450
>> - 500 that the amp is putting out. Since the K3 and the KPA500 "speak
>> the same language" and talk to each other, can the firmware be changed
>> so that the K3 sends corrected Power Out level to the output data port
>> when the
>> KPA500 is engaged? As it is now, I have to go back into MLDX after
>> every QRO contact and change the power field to reflect the actual
>> power and not the K3's driving power.
>>>>
>>>> Regards, Jim / W6JHB
>>>> Folsom, CA
>>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
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>> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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Jim Bennett

Re: K3<-->KPA500 Request

In reply to this post by Bill N2BC

Yep, and therein lies my problem - I don't "write" anything - it's all in an electronic log! :-)

So, after making a bunch of QSO's (think contest) I have to (1) leave each log entry incorrect with a 25W power or (2) manually double-click in the power field in each log entry and enter the actual power. Option number one wouldn't be too bad if I always operated QRO - I could simply try to remember that any time I see a power level of less than 40 in the MLDX log, I was actually running high power - of some sort. But, I often do run the K3 barefoot, and for local contacts, the power might actually be set to 10 - 30 watts.

On Thursday, Mar 1, 2012, at Thursday, 7:43 AM, N2BC wrote:

> ".... I just write "500" in my log.

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Jim Bennett

Re: K3<-->KPA500 Request

In reply to this post by Jim Bennett

Jack,

The power level MLDX sees appears to be updated / polled every few seconds. And, it stays the same, regardless of the K3's Power level setting.

A few minutes ago I sent Don an email asking if he had been following the thread. He replied no, but asked for a link to it. I just sent it to him.

I do like MLDX - a fine program, indeed. Not only do I use it for my limited contesting, but - I am making an assault on 5BWAS. Being able to quickly key in a station's call and finding out if it is a state I need on that band makes things lots easier. Certainly I could use native QRZ.COM, but with MLDX, if I need the state, everything is already loaded into the proper fields for me. I got into IT back in the late 60's and have "enjoyed" knowing quite a few programming languages - mostly dinosaur-speak by today's standards. But I know what you mean about support hassles! I did write a small Apple Script program that I have been using to key in my past 47 years' worth of paper logs and enter them into MLDX. Now THAT has been quite a chore!

Jim / W6JHB

On Thursday, Mar 1, 2012, at Thursday, 9:09 AM, Jack Brindle wrote:

> Jim;
>
> Let me ask another question. For logging the power level, what gets logged? During transmit, the KPA is constantly measuring its output power, making it available to a computer in response to a serial command query. The measurement can vary widely, depending on when the measurement is taken with respect to the transmission. Especially in SSB, this can be anywhere between zero and the peak output. Just watch the KPA power display to see this action.
>
> A logging program would periodically poll for the power, and will receive many readings during a QSO. So the question is, which of these readings would it log? Perhaps the highest one it received? Or should it keep a running average? We don't want the complexity of this calculation to get out of hand, especially when asking a logging program author/vendor to add the feature to his product. But it is necessary to be able to add the feature.
>
> I believe the value set in the K3 when you twist the power knob is the peak power that will be allowed during transmit, but it, too, is not what is actually transmitted. With the KPA, we only have a measured value, which is approximately 13db higher than whatever the transmitter feeds it. Note that we cannot control the output power in the KPA other than shutting off amplification.
>
> I sent Don an email asking if he is interested in adding KPA support to MLDX. I've know him for quite some time, and am quite willing to work with him if he decides to support the feature. Interestingly, I'm not an MLDX user (something Don would like to change). The reason is that I am also a Mac developer, and have my own logging program that I use. It is constantly changing, and not a commercial product (Been there with MacPacket years ago, I don't want the support hassles). Besides, the reason it keeps changing is that I'm not really happy with it yet. And no, it doesn't have KPA support at present, nor many of the features that MLDX has. It is oriented towards contesting, something I really enjoy when I can break away from product development.
>
> Jack B, W6FB
>
>
> On Feb 29, 2012, at 10:17 PM, Jim Bennett wrote:
>
>> I use MacLoggerDX (MLDX) for QSO logging, among other tasks. It interfaces very nicely between my K3 and the MacBook Air laptop. The K3 passes a lot of data (including power output level) to MLDX and it winds up in my log. However, when I'm using the KPA500, the K3 only sends the driving power that it outputs to the amp. What I wind up with in my log is incorrect. For example, if the KPA500 is in OPERATE mode and I log a QSO, it'll get reported as a QSO made using 25 watts or power, instead of the 450 - 500 that the amp is putting out. Since the K3 and the KPA500 "speak the same language" and talk to each other, can the firmware be changed so that the K3 sends corrected Power Out level to the output data port when the KPA500 is engaged? As it is now, I have to go back into MLDX after every QRO contact and change the power field to reflect the actual power and not the K3's driving power.
>>
>> Regards, Jim / W6JHB
>> Folsom, CA
>> ______________________________________________________________
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David Christ

Re: K3<-->KPA500 Request

In reply to this post by Rick Prather-2

This post gets to the heart of the matter. The KPA500 does not have
a power setting. It is a binary situation: Operate or Standby/Off.
Power out is dependant on the K3. To report its power the KPA500
would need to know the power setting of the K3. If the K3 would
report the status of the KPA500 the Logging program it would be able
to know if the KPA500 was in operate mode. If so assume QRO. If you
need to know more the logging program would need to know three
things. Is the KPA500 in operate mode? If yes then what is the
power setting on the K3 and what is the gain of the KPA500. This
last item would need to be an enterable value in the logging program
configuration.

If you only want to determine QRO-QRP status then knowing that the
KPA500 is in standby/off status and the K3 is under your max QRP
power should do.

Bottom line is can the K3 be made to report KPA500 status?

David K0LUM

At 8:37 AM -0800 3/1/12, Rick Prather wrote:
>Not ideal, but perhaps Don could add a drop down menu in the info
>panel so you can set the power level when you are using your amp
>like RUMlog does.
>
>Rick
>K6LE
>
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