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[K3] Keyer Pause

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Donald Thompson

[K3] Keyer Pause

On Sep 4, 2012, at 7:42 AM, Lee Trout <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ...I have noticed that my Begali is quite sensitive to dirty contacts. On my
> Begali, intermittent operation is a sure sign the contacts need cleaning...
>
Hi Lee,
It seems you're correct. I switched to my hex key and the problem went away. Back to Begali and it returned. For example my call becomes KAJ.. and 73 becomes 7V as it delays on the dash.
I never suspected the key since I have been using it with the CW Machine with no problems. Perhaps one draws more current?
Also, my K3 is in my new radio room, a finished family room 1/2 below grade and with much higher humidity, been from 45 to 70% as I run the dehumidifier. Just wondering if this may be the cause. The CW Machine is upstairs with AC and thus very low humidity.
Last, how should I clean the contacts? I think with just a strip of paper but know I must be careful. Also the Leonessa has the contacts stacked vertical with dash on bottom and hard to reach.

Thanks,
Don KA1KU

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dmb@lightstream.net

Re: [K3] Keyer Pause

I have an older Begali 'Classic' (non-gold contacts) which has the same
problem. However, it is easily and non-abrasively corrected by applying
a drop or so of DeoxIT (Radio Shack Part No. 640-43380), which lasts 3
to 6 months before needing to be re-applied.

73, Dale
WA8SRA

On 9/4/2012 9:53 AM, Donald Thompson wrote:

>
> On Sep 4, 2012, at 7:42 AM, Lee Trout <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> ...I have noticed that my Begali is quite sensitive to dirty contacts. On my
>> Begali, intermittent operation is a sure sign the contacts need cleaning...
>>
> Hi Lee,
> It seems you're correct. I switched to my hex key and the problem went away. Back to Begali and it returned. For example my call becomes KAJ.. and 73 becomes 7V as it delays on the dash.
> I never suspected the key since I have been using it with the CW Machine with no problems. Perhaps one draws more current?
> Also, my K3 is in my new radio room, a finished family room 1/2 below grade and with much higher humidity, been from 45 to 70% as I run the dehumidifier. Just wondering if this may be the cause. The CW Machine is upstairs with AC and thus very low humidity.
> Last, how should I clean the contacts? I think with just a strip of paper but know I must be careful. Also the Leonessa has the contacts stacked vertical with dash on bottom and hard to reach.
>
> Thanks,
> Don KA1KU
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Rick Stealey

Re: [K3] Keyer Pause

I have this strange, but confident feeling, that Mr. Begali will know precisely what you should do.
Whether the contacts are gold or silver, you know you don't want to damage that plating.
I have the Magnetic Classic, and haven't had the problem, and it's 2 years old now, but
it always has the plastic cover on it.

Rick K2XT

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David Cutter

Re: [K3] Keyer Pause

In reply to this post by Donald Thompson

It's all about wetting current. On a building site machine design I used
30mA of dc and a level detector to sense when the switch had been pushed and
they lasted years. A few pA from digital circuits is often not enough to
wet precious metal contacts which are open to the ambient. Try cleaning
fluid before using a diamond tipped polishing tool. Once that thin plating
is gone, it will give even more problems. I seem to remember German silver
as a good, hard contact material. Look at the technology of relay contacts.

David
G3UNA

>
>
> On Sep 4, 2012, at 7:42 AM, Lee Trout <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> ...I have noticed that my Begali is quite sensitive to dirty contacts.
>> On my
>> Begali, intermittent operation is a sure sign the contacts need
>> cleaning...
>>
> Hi Lee,
> It seems you're correct. I switched to my hex key and the problem went
> away. Back to Begali and it returned. For example my call becomes KAJ..
> and 73 becomes 7V as it delays on the dash.
> I never suspected the key since I have been using it with the CW Machine
> with no problems. Perhaps one draws more current?
> Also, my K3 is in my new radio room, a finished family room 1/2 below
> grade and with much higher humidity, been from 45 to 70% as I run the
> dehumidifier. Just wondering if this may be the cause. The CW Machine is
> upstairs with AC and thus very low humidity.
> Last, how should I clean the contacts? I think with just a strip of paper
> but know I must be careful. Also the Leonessa has the contacts stacked
> vertical with dash on bottom and hard to reach.
>
> Thanks,
> Don KA1KU

Donald Thompson

Re: [K3] Keyer Pause

Hi Bruna,
I moved my Leonessa Key from the CW Machine to my new K3 and encountered failures on the dash sometimes. I think that I have confirmed it to be dirty contact on the Leonessa since the K3 works fine with the Elecraft Hex key.

I would like specific instructions on how to clean this. I got lots of different suggestions on the reflector but want to make sure I do it correctly and don't damage anything.

Can you also confirm that this key gas gold contacts?

Thanks,
Don KA1KU (KB1YBG)

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 4, 2012, at 11:46 AM, "David Cutter" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It's all about wetting current. On a building site machine design I used 30mA of dc and a level detector to sense when the switch had been pushed and they lasted years. A few pA from digital circuits is often not enough to wet precious metal contacts which are open to the ambient. Try cleaning fluid before using a diamond tipped polishing tool. Once that thin plating is gone, it will give even more problems. I seem to remember German silver as a good, hard contact material. Look at the technology of relay contacts.
>
> David
> G3UNA
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 4, 2012, at 7:42 AM, Lee Trout <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> ...I have noticed that my Begali is quite sensitive to dirty contacts. On my
>>> Begali, intermittent operation is a sure sign the contacts need cleaning...
>>>
>> Hi Lee,
>> It seems you're correct. I switched to my hex key and the problem went away. Back to Begali and it returned. For example my call becomes KAJ.. and 73 becomes 7V as it delays on the dash.
>> I never suspected the key since I have been using it with the CW Machine with no problems. Perhaps one draws more current?
>> Also, my K3 is in my new radio room, a finished family room 1/2 below grade and with much higher humidity, been from 45 to 70% as I run the dehumidifier. Just wondering if this may be the cause. The CW Machine is upstairs with AC and thus very low humidity.
>> Last, how should I clean the contacts? I think with just a strip of paper but know I must be careful. Also the Leonessa has the contacts stacked vertical with dash on bottom and hard to reach.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Don KA1KU
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: [K3] Keyer Pause

Don,

One safe way to clean any set of contacts is to use a strip of paper -
copy paper, printer paper, etc, all will do just fine - cut it into
narrow strips a couple inches long.
Slide the paper strip between the contacts, gently close the contacts
and pull the paper through.
You will normally see some black stuff on the paper. Continue until the
strip comes out clean.
In addition, many recommend using DeOxit on the contacts after
cleaning. Just a drop will do.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 9/4/2012 11:56 AM, Donald Thompson wrote:

> Hi Bruna,
> I moved my Leonessa Key from the CW Machine to my new K3 and encountered failures on the dash sometimes. I think that I have confirmed it to be dirty contact on the Leonessa since the K3 works fine with the Elecraft Hex key.
>
> I would like specific instructions on how to clean this. I got lots of different suggestions on the reflector but want to make sure I do it correctly and don't damage anything.
>
> Can you also confirm that this key gas gold contacts?
>
> Thanks,
> Don KA1KU (KB1YBG)
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Sep 4, 2012, at 11:46 AM, "David Cutter" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> It's all about wetting current. On a building site machine design I used 30mA of dc and a level detector to sense when the switch had been pushed and they lasted years. A few pA from digital circuits is often not enough to wet precious metal contacts which are open to the ambient. Try cleaning fluid before using a diamond tipped polishing tool. Once that thin plating is gone, it will give even more problems. I seem to remember German silver as a good, hard contact material. Look at the technology of relay contacts.
>>
>> David
>> G3UNA
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> On Sep 4, 2012, at 7:42 AM, Lee Trout <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> ...I have noticed that my Begali is quite sensitive to dirty contacts. On my
>>>> Begali, intermittent operation is a sure sign the contacts need cleaning...
>>>>
>>> Hi Lee,
>>> It seems you're correct. I switched to my hex key and the problem went away. Back to Begali and it returned. For example my call becomes KAJ.. and 73 becomes 7V as it delays on the dash.
>>> I never suspected the key since I have been using it with the CW Machine with no problems. Perhaps one draws more current?
>>> Also, my K3 is in my new radio room, a finished family room 1/2 below grade and with much higher humidity, been from 45 to 70% as I run the dehumidifier. Just wondering if this may be the cause. The CW Machine is upstairs with AC and thus very low humidity.
>>> Last, how should I clean the contacts? I think with just a strip of paper but know I must be careful. Also the Leonessa has the contacts stacked vertical with dash on bottom and hard to reach.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Don KA1KU
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Thomas Horsten

Re: [K3] Keyer Pause

Don,

Agree with the paper strips as a cleaning method, but I don't think there's
any case for using Deoxit on gold contacts - the gold shouldn't oxidize -
although it might dissolve some kinds of dirt that the paper doesn't get,
who knows.. but a few drops of ethanol on a paper strip would probably be
just as good.

73, Thomas M0TRN

On 4 September 2012 17:07, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> In addition, many recommend using DeOxit on the contacts after
> cleaning. Just a drop will do.
>
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Guy, K2AV

Re: [K3] Keyer Pause

Gold gets goop from the air on it. Very small particles of cooking grease
over a long period of time. Soot from cigarette smoke.

Air is not pure just because you can see through it. There is a small
charge on the contacts, and one side will attract particle out of the air.

This will coat gold the same way, if a lot slower, as stuff on my glasses
that needs to be washed off.

I've sometimes used a soft cloth saturated with alcohol-based eyeglass
cleaner to clean contacts.

73, Guy.

On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Thomas Horsten <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Don,
>
> Agree with the paper strips as a cleaning method, but I don't think there's
> any case for using Deoxit on gold contacts - the gold shouldn't oxidize -
> although it might dissolve some kinds of dirt that the paper doesn't get,
> who knows.. but a few drops of ethanol on a paper strip would probably be
> just as good.
>
> 73, Thomas M0TRN
>
> On 4 September 2012 17:07, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > In addition, many recommend using DeOxit on the contacts after
> > cleaning. Just a drop will do.
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Mike K2MK

Re: [K3] Keyer Pause

In reply to this post by Donald Thompson

Hi Don,

Just wanted to add to my previous post. The strip that Mr. Begali sent me is about 4 inches long and feels like two fabric layers glued together. It is rough to the touch but not what I would call abrasive. In the e-mail that he sent me he advised me to "wet the strip with alcohol and pull it between the contacts". I mentioned in my earlier post that the strip is thick and will require you to open up the spacing in order to use it.

My contacts are silver and have been fine ever since the cleaning a little over 2 years ago. If the problem was contact oxidation then perhaps gold would have been a better choice. If it is dust buildup then I think even gold contacts would require cleaning. I do keep the supplied plastic cover on the paddle at all times.

73,
Mike K2MK

Donald Thompson wrote

Hi Bruna,
I moved my Leonessa Key from the CW Machine to my new K3 and encountered failures on the dash sometimes. I think that I have confirmed it to be dirty contact on the Leonessa since the K3 works fine with the Elecraft Hex key.

I would like specific instructions on how to clean this. I got lots of different suggestions on the reflector but want to make sure I do it correctly and don't damage anything.

Can you also confirm that this key gas gold contacts?

Thanks,
Don KA1KU (KB1YBG)

KXBill

Re: [K3] Keyer Pause

From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] [K3] Keyer Pause
Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 10:59:17 -0700

Mike wrote:"If the problem was contact oxidation" Seem's like a little De-ox fluid might work. (?)Laterde Bill-w7kxb. .

> Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2012 10:53:34 -0700
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Keyer Pause
>
> Hi Don,
>
> Just wanted to add to my previous post. The strip that Mr. Begali sent me is
> about 4 inches long and feels like two fabric layers glued together. It is
> rough to the touch but not what I would call abrasive. In the e-mail that he
> sent me he advised me to "wet the strip with alcohol and pull it between the
> contacts". I mentioned in my earlier post that the strip is thick and will
> require you to open up the spacing in order to use it.
>
> My contacts are silver and have been fine ever since the cleaning a little
> over 2 years ago. If the problem was contact oxidation then perhaps gold
> would have been a better choice. If it is dust buildup then I think even
> gold contacts would require cleaning. I do keep the supplied plastic cover
> on the paddle at all times.
>
> 73,
> Mike K2MK
>
>
>

Donald Thompson-2

Re: [K3] Keyer Pause

In reply to this post by David Cutter

On Sep 4, 2012, at 11:46 AM, "David Cutter" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It's all about wetting current....

David,
I never knew this term but it looks to me I'm seeing it's effects.
I moved the key back to the CW Machine and it's totally clean. I sent a large string of 73s as well as my call sign at speeds from 16 to 25 and was totally clean, not the occasionally 7V or KAJ.. I get on the K3. For another test I moved the Begali to my K2...it too runs completely clean. Just to rule out an intermittent K3 issue I re-ran the tests with Begali and Hex keys using the same strings of 73s. Again Hex totally clean and Begali stutters on dashes. Sometimes holding the dash sets for a few seconds before starting the string.
All this is after a light cleaning with a strip of dry copy paper as suggested. The paper strip showed a mark but no color.
I'm waiting on Begali's advice.
One interesting question for Elecraft is what current flows on K3 vs K3? Has this 'wetting current' issue been seen before ?
And I just thought I'd missed a K3 config option..
Sorry for all the noise on this. Thanks for all the ideas.
73,
Don KA1KU
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Bob-270

Re: [K3] Keyer Pause

In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV

Craig Labs the maker of DeoxIT also has a specific product for gold contacts. Here:

http://store.caig.com/

I have not used it so can not comment on it. I do use their S-Shield but my
old can is labeled
PreservIT. I use that on all coax connectors and have never had a problem with
any connector
that had it applied. Using it *may* extend the interval between cleaning or
eliminate the need
for further cleanings.

NFI & YMMV

73,
Bob
K2TK ex KN2TKR (1956) & K2TKR

On 9/4/2012 1:22 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

> Gold gets goop from the air on it. Very small particles of cooking grease
> over a long period of time. Soot from cigarette smoke.
>
> Air is not pure just because you can see through it. There is a small
> charge on the contacts, and one side will attract particle out of the air.
>
> This will coat gold the same way, if a lot slower, as stuff on my glasses
> that needs to be washed off.
>
> I've sometimes used a soft cloth saturated with alcohol-based eyeglass
> cleaner to clean contacts.
>
> 73, Guy.
>
> On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 12:20 PM, Thomas Horsten <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> Don,
>>
>> Agree with the paper strips as a cleaning method, but I don't think there's
>> any case for using Deoxit on gold contacts - the gold shouldn't oxidize -
>> although it might dissolve some kinds of dirt that the paper doesn't get,
>> who knows.. but a few drops of ethanol on a paper strip would probably be
>> just as good.
>>
>> 73, Thomas M0TRN
>>
>> On 4 September 2012 17:07, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>>> In addition, many recommend using DeOxit on the contacts after
>>> cleaning. Just a drop will do.
>>>

Donald Thompson-2

[K3] Keyer Pause

In reply to this post by Donald Thompson

Hi Bruna,
Thanks for getting back to so quickly.
I cleaned the contacts with WD40 as you suggested and now it runs clean. I saturated a paper strip in WD40 and firmly passed the strip between as I held the paddle closed. Before cleaning I backed the contacts way back and inspected with a 10X loop. The contact on the adjustment screw for the dash appeared to have a large imperfection in the center of the contact. It looked like a rust pit on iron. I thought for sure it was a manufacturing defect but after the cleaning as described above it's gone and contact appears normal, like the others. After the cleaning I did about 100 73s and no 7V or other error. Same with other tests. For now it seems to work fine.

It is still strange to me since the Leonessa worked fine on my K2 and on the CW Machine but not on the K3 (not KX3). Someone on the reflector talked about wetting current with Silver contacts. I see this as the only explaination of why it worked fine on the others but not on K3. I am going to talk to Elecraft support. My guess is that the K3 uses less current than the other devices, and thus never 'turned on' the dirty contact. In any case the real problem was a dirty contact.

Thanks Piero and Bruna, and everyone on the reflector.

73,
Don KA1KU

>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Donald Thompson" <[hidden email]>
> To: "David Cutter" <[hidden email]>; "BRUNA BEGALI" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 5:56 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Keyer Pause
>
>
> Hi Bruna,
> I moved my Leonessa Key from the CW Machine to my new K3 and encountered failures on the dash sometimes. I think that I have confirmed it to be dirty contact on the Leonessa since the K3 works fine with the Elecraft Hex key.
>
> I would like specific instructions on how to clean this. I got lots of different suggestions on the reflector but want to make sure I do it correctly and don't damage anything.
>
> Can you also confirm that this key gas gold contacts?
>
> Thanks,
> Don KA1KU (KB1YBG)

Donald Thompson

[K3] Keyer Pause

In reply to this post by Donald Thompson

Dick Wiltgen

Re: [K3] Keyer Pause

In reply to this post by dmb@lightstream.net

I was discussing this with Marshall Emm, N1FN. He graciously shared a link to something that he wrote on the subject of keyer contacts and conductivity. To me, it seems to definitively address the issue. He is an excellent writer and I'll let him speak for himself:

http://www.morsex.com/pubs/fn1011.pdf

Vy 73 to all
de Dick, K8RBW

Mike Reublin

Re: [K3] Keyer Pause

I wasn't sure where the link was going 'til I realized it was "morse x".

Nice article.

73, Mike NF4L

On 9/9/12 1:40 AM, Dick Wiltgen wrote:

> I was discussing this with Marshall Emm, N1FN. He graciously shared a link
> to something that he wrote on the subject of keyer contacts and
> conductivity. To me, it seems to definitively address the issue. He is an
> excellent writer and I'll let him speak for himself:
>
> http://www.morsex.com/pubs/fn1011.pdf
>
> Vy 73 to all
> de Dick, K8RBW
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Keyer-Pause-tp7562115p7562307.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
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