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K3 Link to QRQ CW RECORDING

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Steve Ellington

K3 Link to QRQ CW RECORDING

This file was made about a year ago and sent to Elecraft.
A Winkeyer USB was used to generate 45 wpm and key the K3. This playback has been slowed so you can hear the uneven elements.
The second half shows how the problem goes away when the K3 is locked in Transmit mode.
http://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0By_pJYMIPoenM2FhNDE0ZDQtNzdkMy00ZjIyLWJmOWItNGFjZTI0ZWJhYWMy&hl=en
Steve
N4LQ
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Guy, K2AV

Re: K3 Link to QRQ CW RECORDING

Well, yes, I can hear that, barely, in the recording, but at 45 WPM?
And that doesn't sound irregular to me, it sounds shortened. Add a
little weight to it. Hate to say it, but ain't this started off in the
direction of the Princess and the Pea? You DID have to run it slow to
make it apparent.

The real problem is that by pushing that speed you are working against
the absolutely pure, artifact-free, soft QSK that everyone seems to
want, along with all the features that pull CPU time away from state
changes. AND we are talking about resource- and time-constrained
HARDWARE code, the most difficult kind of coding on the planet. AND
from a company that doesn't have the resources to spend on a couple
hundred salaried programmers and testers to work on it.

The degree of tricky I don't believe can be appreciated by anybody
that hasn't written and debugged hardware code in a production
environment. You guys are really lucky that Wayne appears to enjoy
such stuff. Hardware code is seriously deranged work. The
alternative is guess who, and we all know how that has turned out for
innovation and RX performance. I got the K3 for the RX, and if he
ever does manage to do artifact-free 50 wpm state changes with RX
between the dits and microscopically perfect CW shaping, then bully
for him and I owe him a few rounds somewhere. But reality beckons...
Get your KPA's and P3's and other stuff out there to keep up the
revenue stream so we get to keep this string of innovation some take
for granted.

That off my chest, I'm in favor of an option for those of us that
would rather have HARD QSK instead of the squeaky clean, absolutely no
artifact "QSK" that so many seem to want. I had 60 wpm QSK, clean
between the bauds, with a tube electronic TR switch and a separate RX,
TX (SB 300/400), and an AGC and audio gain clamp circuit added to the
RX, driven off the TX key circuit, and you could hear between all the
dits at 60 wpm. But ARTIFACT-FREE? Surely you jest. Another
approach might be at some set WPM, to drop out of state changes INSIDE
the letter.

73, Guy.

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Steve Ellington <[hidden email]> wrote:

> This file was made about a year ago and sent to Elecraft.
> A Winkeyer USB was used to generate 45 wpm and key the K3. This playback has been slowed so you can hear the uneven elements.
> The second half shows how the problem goes away when the K3 is locked in Transmit mode.
> http://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0By_pJYMIPoenM2FhNDE0ZDQtNzdkMy00ZjIyLWJmOWItNGFjZTI0ZWJhYWMy&hl=en
> Steve
> N4LQ
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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Steve Ellington

Re: K3 Link to QRQ CW RECORDING

Easy on that cool-aid....
It's irregular, almost sounds like a bug.
Take a look at it on one of the scope programs.
Steve
N4LQ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Guy Olinger K2AV" <[hidden email]>
To: "Steve Ellington" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 2:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Link to QRQ CW RECORDING

> Well, yes, I can hear that, barely, in the recording, but at 45 WPM?
> And that doesn't sound irregular to me, it sounds shortened. Add a
> little weight to it. Hate to say it, but ain't this started off in the
> direction of the Princess and the Pea? You DID have to run it slow to
> make it apparent.
>
> The real problem is that by pushing that speed you are working against
> the absolutely pure, artifact-free, soft QSK that everyone seems to
> want, along with all the features that pull CPU time away from state
> changes. AND we are talking about resource- and time-constrained
> HARDWARE code, the most difficult kind of coding on the planet. AND
> from a company that doesn't have the resources to spend on a couple
> hundred salaried programmers and testers to work on it.
>
> The degree of tricky I don't believe can be appreciated by anybody
> that hasn't written and debugged hardware code in a production
> environment. You guys are really lucky that Wayne appears to enjoy
> such stuff. Hardware code is seriously deranged work. The
> alternative is guess who, and we all know how that has turned out for
> innovation and RX performance. I got the K3 for the RX, and if he
> ever does manage to do artifact-free 50 wpm state changes with RX
> between the dits and microscopically perfect CW shaping, then bully
> for him and I owe him a few rounds somewhere. But reality beckons...
> Get your KPA's and P3's and other stuff out there to keep up the
> revenue stream so we get to keep this string of innovation some take
> for granted.
>
> That off my chest, I'm in favor of an option for those of us that
> would rather have HARD QSK instead of the squeaky clean, absolutely no
> artifact "QSK" that so many seem to want. I had 60 wpm QSK, clean
> between the bauds, with a tube electronic TR switch and a separate RX,
> TX (SB 300/400), and an AGC and audio gain clamp circuit added to the
> RX, driven off the TX key circuit, and you could hear between all the
> dits at 60 wpm. But ARTIFACT-FREE? Surely you jest. Another
> approach might be at some set WPM, to drop out of state changes INSIDE
> the letter.
>
> 73, Guy.
>
> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Steve Ellington <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
>> This file was made about a year ago and sent to Elecraft.
>> A Winkeyer USB was used to generate 45 wpm and key the K3. This playback
>> has been slowed so you can hear the uneven elements.
>> The second half shows how the problem goes away when the K3 is locked in
>> Transmit mode.
>> http://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0By_pJYMIPoenM2FhNDE0ZDQtNzdkMy00ZjIyLWJmOWItNGFjZTI0ZWJhYWMy&hl=en
>> Steve
>> N4LQ
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>

Jessie Oberreuter-2

Re: K3 Link to QRQ CW RECORDING

In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV

Wayne already gave us an artifact free hard QSK at 50 WPM rig! It's
called the SST! The receiver runs continuously -- not only can you hear
between the dits, you can hear /during/ the dits :). I've had several
FULL DUPLEX conversations on it!

______________________________________________________________
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Guy, K2AV

Re: K3 Link to QRQ CW RECORDING

In reply to this post by Steve Ellington

Isn't that the point, that you have to put it under a microscope to
"see" what most people can't hear? Everything starts to look rough
under a microscope. It SOUNDS underweight to me in the slowed down
version.

Yeah, and my cool-aid is the good stuff.

73, Guy.

On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Steve Ellington <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Easy on that cool-aid....
> It's irregular, almost sounds like a bug.
> Take a look at it on one of the scope programs.
> Steve
> N4LQ
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Guy Olinger K2AV"
> <[hidden email]>
> To: "Steve Ellington" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 2:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Link to QRQ CW RECORDING
>
>
>> Well, yes, I can hear that, barely, in the recording, but at 45 WPM?
>> And that doesn't sound irregular to me, it sounds shortened. Add a
>> little weight to it. Hate to say it, but ain't this started off in the
>> direction of the Princess and the Pea? You DID have to run it slow to
>> make it apparent.
>>
>> The real problem is that by pushing that speed you are working against
>> the absolutely pure, artifact-free, soft QSK that everyone seems to
>> want, along with all the features that pull CPU time away from state
>> changes. AND we are talking about resource- and time-constrained
>> HARDWARE code, the most difficult kind of coding on the planet. AND
>> from a company that doesn't have the resources to spend on a couple
>> hundred salaried programmers and testers to work on it.
>>
>> The degree of tricky I don't believe can be appreciated by anybody
>> that hasn't written and debugged hardware code in a production
>> environment. You guys are really lucky that Wayne appears to enjoy
>> such stuff. Hardware code is seriously deranged work. The
>> alternative is guess who, and we all know how that has turned out for
>> innovation and RX performance. I got the K3 for the RX, and if he
>> ever does manage to do artifact-free 50 wpm state changes with RX
>> between the dits and microscopically perfect CW shaping, then bully
>> for him and I owe him a few rounds somewhere. But reality beckons...
>> Get your KPA's and P3's and other stuff out there to keep up the
>> revenue stream so we get to keep this string of innovation some take
>> for granted.
>>
>> That off my chest, I'm in favor of an option for those of us that
>> would rather have HARD QSK instead of the squeaky clean, absolutely no
>> artifact "QSK" that so many seem to want. I had 60 wpm QSK, clean
>> between the bauds, with a tube electronic TR switch and a separate RX,
>> TX (SB 300/400), and an AGC and audio gain clamp circuit added to the
>> RX, driven off the TX key circuit, and you could hear between all the
>> dits at 60 wpm. But ARTIFACT-FREE? Surely you jest. Another
>> approach might be at some set WPM, to drop out of state changes INSIDE
>> the letter.
>>
>> 73, Guy.
>>
>> On Fri, May 14, 2010 at 1:31 PM, Steve Ellington <[hidden email]>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This file was made about a year ago and sent to Elecraft.
>>> A Winkeyer USB was used to generate 45 wpm and key the K3. This playback
>>> has been slowed so you can hear the uneven elements.
>>> The second half shows how the problem goes away when the K3 is locked in
>>> Transmit mode.
>>>
>>> http://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0By_pJYMIPoenM2FhNDE0ZDQtNzdkMy00ZjIyLWJmOWItNGFjZTI0ZWJhYWMy&hl=en
>>> Steve
>>> N4LQ
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>
>

Steve Ellington

Re: K3 Link to QRQ CW RECORDING

In reply to this post by Jessie Oberreuter-2

My little TenTec 1340 is similar. The sidetone you hear is actually a beat
note of the tx carrier. No artifacts at all. Of course it lacks a few
frills!

Steve
N4LQ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jessie Oberreuter" <[hidden email]>
To: "Guy Olinger K2AV" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Steve Ellington" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, May 14, 2010 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Link to QRQ CW RECORDING

>
> Wayne already gave us an artifact free hard QSK at 50 WPM rig! It's
> called the SST! The receiver runs continuously -- not only can you hear
> between the dits, you can hear /during/ the dits :). I've had several
> FULL DUPLEX conversations on it!
>

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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VR2BrettGraham

Re: K3 Link to QRQ CW RECORDING

In reply to this post by Steve Ellington

N4LQ said:

> This file was made about a year ago and sent to Elecraft.
> A Winkeyer USB was used to generate 45 wpm and key the K3. This playback has been slowed so you can hear the uneven elements.
> The second half shows how the problem goes away when the K3 is locked in Transmit mode.
> http://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0By_pJYMIPoenM2FhNDE0ZDQtNzdkMy00ZjIyLWJmOWItNGFjZTI0ZWJhYWMy&hl=en
>

Acoustically coupled & way over driven, has what I hope is echo on
trailing edges. Presumably from another receiver?

There looks to variation in some element lengths & inter-element spacing
(bother either shortened or lengthened by about 10 ms?) before N4LQ
asserts PTT by pressing the front panel XMIT button. After that, no
variations & consistent dot/dot-space/dash ratio near 1:1:2.5.

Radio following keying I would have thought is basic stuff & 45 wpm
isn't really all that fast.

This must be something that was introduced after new/old QSK selection,
as would have expected somebody to have noticed at the time, as folks
then were looking at key closure & transmitted RF with 'scope, also with
an eye on receiver recovery.

73, ex-VR2BG/p.

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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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