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K3: Low speaker output problem

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Ralph Parker

K3: Low speaker output problem

Hi gang:
Here's the situation -
Headset audio level is OK, AF gain at 11 o'clock with my Sony MDR-V6es.
I get barely enough audio output from the speaker with the gain at 3 o'clock.
I have to set it full CW to hear the audio while I work around the shack.
Audio is not distorted at his setting.
Same problem with the built-in or separate speakers.
AF GAIN is set to HI.
I just did the DSP UPG to ol' 1823, and uploaded the newest firmware.
It made no difference in audio output.
This situation has existed since I first got the radio.

Here's the question -
Anybody else notice this?
Did I miss a mod or upgrade?
Should I get out the schematic and make my own mod?
Suggestions gratefully received.

VE7XF

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Jim Cox

Re: K3: Low speaker output problem

It appears you have something defective in the K3 as 9 to 10 oclock on the
volume control is loud here, I couldnt stand 3 oclock. Have you talked to
Elecraft support and what did they say?

Jim K4JAF

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ralph Parker" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 1:16 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Low speaker output problem

> Hi gang:
> Here's the situation -
> Headset audio level is OK, AF gain at 11 o'clock with my Sony MDR-V6es.
> I get barely enough audio output from the speaker with the gain at 3
> o'clock.
> I have to set it full CW to hear the audio while I work around the shack.
> Audio is not distorted at his setting.
> Same problem with the built-in or separate speakers.
> AF GAIN is set to HI.
> I just did the DSP UPG to ol' 1823, and uploaded the newest firmware.
> It made no difference in audio output.
> This situation has existed since I first got the radio.
>
> Here's the question -
> Anybody else notice this?
> Did I miss a mod or upgrade?
> Should I get out the schematic and make my own mod?
> Suggestions gratefully received.
>
> VE7XF
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Guy, K2AV

Re: K3: Low speaker output problem

This can also be due to the efficiency of some low impedance speakers.
All speakers are NOT alike, and some require quite a bit of power to
produce the same audio level as other speakers. Try it on other
speakers and then if still no joy, talk to Elecraft.

73, Guy.

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 8:14 AM, Jim Cox <[hidden email]> wrote:

> It appears you have something defective in the K3 as 9 to 10 oclock on the
> volume control is loud here, I couldnt stand 3 oclock. Have you talked to
> Elecraft support and what did they say?
>
> Jim K4JAF
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ralph Parker" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 1:16 AM
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Low speaker output problem
>
>
>> Hi gang:
>> Here's the situation -
>> Headset audio level is OK, AF gain at 11 o'clock with my Sony MDR-V6es.
>> I get barely enough audio output from the speaker with the gain at 3
>> o'clock.
>> I have to set it full CW to hear the audio while I work around the shack.
>> Audio is not distorted at his setting.
>> Same problem with the built-in or separate speakers.
>> AF GAIN is set to HI.
>> I just did the DSP UPG to ol' 1823, and uploaded the newest firmware.
>> It made no difference in audio output.
>> This situation has existed since I first got the radio.
>>
>> Here's the question -
>> Anybody else notice this?
>> Did I miss a mod or upgrade?
>> Should I get out the schematic and make my own mod?
>> Suggestions gratefully received.
>>
>> VE7XF
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

The Smiths

Re: K3: Low speaker output problem

In reply to this post by Jim Cox

I've found that if you're working weak signals, and you have your NR on, and perhaps your NB on, with a tight Width setting it's almost necessary to run the AF audio pot at 3 o'clock to all the way up. This is normal as far as I can tell. If an S9 signal attacks though, you best watch out, you will find the it's going to be MUCH louder than the rest of the band noise and signals. For this you can set the AGC threshold and Slope to try and compensate some.
But the answer to your question is, There's nothing wrong with your rig.. All 3 of the K3's that I've used exhibit this same operation. A little more speaker gain on the external speaker would be a nice thing.

> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 07:14:00 -0500
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Low speaker output problem
>
> It appears you have something defective in the K3 as 9 to 10 oclock on the
> volume control is loud here, I couldnt stand 3 oclock. Have you talked to
> Elecraft support and what did they say?
>
> Jim K4JAF
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ralph Parker" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 1:16 AM
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Low speaker output problem
>
>
> > Hi gang:
> > Here's the situation -
> > Headset audio level is OK, AF gain at 11 o'clock with my Sony MDR-V6es.
> > I get barely enough audio output from the speaker with the gain at 3
> > o'clock.
> > I have to set it full CW to hear the audio while I work around the shack.
> > Audio is not distorted at his setting.
> > Same problem with the built-in or separate speakers.
> > AF GAIN is set to HI.
> > I just did the DSP UPG to ol' 1823, and uploaded the newest firmware.
> > It made no difference in audio output.
> > This situation has existed since I first got the radio.
> >
> > Here's the question -
> > Anybody else notice this?
> > Did I miss a mod or upgrade?
> > Should I get out the schematic and make my own mod?
> > Suggestions gratefully received.
> >
> > VE7XF
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

ussv dharma

Do I have a problem?

It seems that most signals I hear are rather weak....is it that the K3 is now allowing me to :hear: signals I didn't before?, OR is it that something is deficient?

Susan

If you don't change direction you WILL arrive exactly where you're headed!! Susan Meckley, Skipper W7KFI-mm AFA9SM USSV DHARMA

--- On Tue, 9/7/10, The Smiths <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: The Smiths <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Low speaker output problem
> To: [hidden email], [hidden email], "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 9:05 AM
>
> I've found that if you're working weak signals, and you
> have your NR on, and perhaps your NB on, with a tight Width
> setting it's almost necessary to run the AF audio pot at 3
> o'clock to all the way up. This is normal as far as I
> can tell. If an S9 signal attacks though, you best
> watch out, you will find the it's going to be MUCH louder
> than the rest of the band noise and signals. For this
> you can set the AGC threshold and Slope to try and
> compensate some.
> But the answer to your question is, There's nothing wrong
> with your rig.. All 3 of the K3's that I've used exhibit
> this same operation. A little more speaker gain on the
> external speaker would be a nice thing.
>
> > From: [hidden email]
> > To: [hidden email];
> [hidden email]
> > Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 07:14:00 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Low speaker output
> problem
> >
> > It appears you have something defective in the K3 as 9
> to 10 oclock on the
> > volume control is loud here, I couldnt stand 3 oclock.
> Have you talked to
> > Elecraft support and what did they say?
> >
> > Jim K4JAF
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ralph Parker" <[hidden email]>
> > To: <[hidden email]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 1:16 AM
> > Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Low speaker output problem
> >
> >
> > > Hi gang:
> > > Here's the situation -
> > > Headset audio level is OK, AF gain at 11 o'clock
> with my Sony MDR-V6es.
> > > I get barely enough audio output from the speaker
> with the gain at 3
> > > o'clock.
> > > I have to set it full CW to hear the audio while
> I work around the shack.
> > > Audio is not distorted at his setting.
> > > Same problem with the built-in or separate
> speakers.
> > > AF GAIN is set to HI.
> > > I just did the DSP UPG to ol' 1823, and uploaded
> the newest firmware.
> > > It made no difference in audio output.
> > > This situation has existed since I first got the
> radio.
> > >
> > > Here's the question -
> > > Anybody else notice this?
> > > Did I miss a mod or upgrade?
> > > Should I get out the schematic and make my own
> mod?
> > > Suggestions gratefully received.
> > >
> > > VE7XF
> > >
> > >
> ______________________________________________________________
> > > Elecraft mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> > >
> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

K2QI

Re: K3: Low speaker output problem

In reply to this post by The Smiths

For what it's worth, I usually run af gain up to about 12 o'clock when using the built in speaker. Sometimes more or less depending on signal strength.

James K2QI
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: The Smiths <[hidden email]>
Sender: [hidden email]
Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 19:05:48
To: <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>; Elecraft Reflector<[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Low speaker output problem

I've found that if you're working weak signals, and you have your NR on, and perhaps your NB on, with a tight Width setting it's almost necessary to run the AF audio pot at 3 o'clock to all the way up. This is normal as far as I can tell. If an S9 signal attacks though, you best watch out, you will find the it's going to be MUCH louder than the rest of the band noise and signals. For this you can set the AGC threshold and Slope to try and compensate some.
But the answer to your question is, There's nothing wrong with your rig.. All 3 of the K3's that I've used exhibit this same operation. A little more speaker gain on the external speaker would be a nice thing.

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

--... ...-- -.. . .--- .- -- . ...

Jim Brown-10

Re: Do I have a problem?

In reply to this post by ussv dharma

On Tue, 7 Sep 2010 12:12:31 -0700 (PDT), ussv dharma wrote:

>It seems that most signals I hear are rather weak....is it that the K3 is
>now allowing me to :hear: signals I didn't before?, OR is it that something
>is deficient?

What band(s), what antenna(s)? The K3 is a very sensitive radio.

There are some simple set-up things that could be causing signals to be weak.
Perhaps the ATTenuator is on. Perhaps you have the RX antenna engaged.
Perhaps you have connected the antenna to ANT1 and have ANT2 selected.
Perhaps you have the RF gain turned down too far. Perhaps a filter gain
setting is wrong.

I suggest you study the pictorial of the front panel and display so that you
recognize and understand all the read-out icons. Study the description of
control functions in the manual. Study the menu settings in the manual.

The K3 is a pretty straightforward radio, but with a lot of features that can
be turned on and off, and a lot of variations in the way controls can be made
to operate.

73, Jim K9YC

______________________________________________________________
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Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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Guy, K2AV

Re: Do I have a problem?

In reply to this post by ussv dharma

There's no way to evaluate your question without further data.

What band, what mode, what time of day, what antenna are you using to
listen, what is the ambient noise, which way is your antenna oriented?

Do you see S-meter indications on your signals, but still hear low
audio? Do you hear a difference changing PRE/ATT setting?

Do you have NR or NB on? What are the settings you are using? Does
the volume improve when NB and NR are off? What are your firmware
versions?

What do you have CONFIG:AF GAIN set to?

73, Guy.

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 3:12 PM, ussv dharma <[hidden email]> wrote:
> It seems that most signals I hear are rather weak....is it that the K3 is now allowing me to :hear: signals I didn't before?, OR is it that something is deficient?
>
> Susan
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Gary Ferdinand

Re: K3: Low speaker output problem

In reply to this post by The Smiths

My K3 does not act like you describe. I can blow my ears off with the
external speaker set to 3:00. Regardless of the NR/NB settings and I've
played with the settings for each. This with extremely weak sigs from mid
east on 80 and with width settings down to 200 cps. 9:00 with cans and
11:00 max with speaker, usually less. Perhaps there's two groups of K3s out
there having different characteristics. Mine is #4495. I have not changed
the factory settings for AGC at all. I have played with the NR/NB settings.
I've found that although the NR does attenuate the background noise, it
improves the SNR such that my speaker/headset controls remain pretty much
the same as w/o NR or a tad higher. The gain adjustment on the narrow
filters is positive of course.

Good luck es 73,

Gary W2CS

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:elecraft-
> [hidden email]] On Behalf Of The Smiths
> Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 3:06 PM
> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; Elecraft Reflector
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Low speaker output problem
>
>
> I've found that if you're working weak signals, and you have your NR
> on, and perhaps your NB on, with a tight Width setting it's almost
> necessary to run the AF audio pot at 3 o'clock to all the way up. This
> is normal as far as I can tell. If an S9 signal attacks though, you
> best watch out, you will find the it's going to be MUCH louder than the
> rest of the band noise and signals. For this you can set the AGC
> threshold and Slope to try and compensate some.
> But the answer to your question is, There's nothing wrong with your
> rig.. All 3 of the K3's that I've used exhibit this same operation. A
> little more speaker gain on the external speaker would be a nice thing.
>
> > From: [hidden email]
> > To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> > Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 07:14:00 -0500
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Low speaker output problem
> >
> > It appears you have something defective in the K3 as 9 to 10 oclock
> on the
> > volume control is loud here, I couldnt stand 3 oclock. Have you
> talked to
> > Elecraft support and what did they say?
> >
> > Jim K4JAF
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ralph Parker" <[hidden email]>
> > To: <[hidden email]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 1:16 AM
> > Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Low speaker output problem
> >
> >
> > > Hi gang:
> > > Here's the situation -
> > > Headset audio level is OK, AF gain at 11 o'clock with my Sony MDR-
> V6es.
> > > I get barely enough audio output from the speaker with the gain at
> 3
> > > o'clock.
> > > I have to set it full CW to hear the audio while I work around the
> shack.
> > > Audio is not distorted at his setting.
> > > Same problem with the built-in or separate speakers.
> > > AF GAIN is set to HI.
> > > I just did the DSP UPG to ol' 1823, and uploaded the newest
> firmware.
> > > It made no difference in audio output.
> > > This situation has existed since I first got the radio.
> > >
> > > Here's the question -
> > > Anybody else notice this?
> > > Did I miss a mod or upgrade?
> > > Should I get out the schematic and make my own mod?
> > > Suggestions gratefully received.
> > >
> > > VE7XF
> > >
> > > ______________________________________________________________
> > > Elecraft mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> > >
> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

The Smiths

Re: Do I have a problem?

In reply to this post by ussv dharma

If you've followed the write ups that I sent to you you're probably hearing weak signals you were unable to before with the loud noise floors. I doubt that your rig has lost it's sensitivity.

> Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 12:12:31 -0700
> From: [hidden email]
> Subject: Do I have a problem?
> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email]
>
> It seems that most signals I hear are rather weak....is it that the K3 is now allowing me to :hear: signals I didn't before?, OR is it that something is deficient?
>
> Susan
>
> If you don't change direction you WILL arrive exactly where you're headed!! Susan Meckley, Skipper W7KFI-mm AFA9SM USSV DHARMA
>
>
> --- On Tue, 9/7/10, The Smiths <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > From: The Smiths <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Low speaker output problem
> > To: [hidden email], [hidden email], "Elecraft Reflector" <[hidden email]>
> > Date: Tuesday, September 7, 2010, 9:05 AM
> >
> > I've found that if you're working weak signals, and you
> > have your NR on, and perhaps your NB on, with a tight Width
> > setting it's almost necessary to run the AF audio pot at 3
> > o'clock to all the way up. This is normal as far as I
> > can tell. If an S9 signal attacks though, you best
> > watch out, you will find the it's going to be MUCH louder
> > than the rest of the band noise and signals. For this
> > you can set the AGC threshold and Slope to try and
> > compensate some.
> > But the answer to your question is, There's nothing wrong
> > with your rig.. All 3 of the K3's that I've used exhibit
> > this same operation. A little more speaker gain on the
> > external speaker would be a nice thing.
> >
> > > From: [hidden email]
> > > To: [hidden email];
> > [hidden email]
> > > Date: Tue, 7 Sep 2010 07:14:00 -0500
> > > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Low speaker output
> > problem
> > >
> > > It appears you have something defective in the K3 as 9
> > to 10 oclock on the
> > > volume control is loud here, I couldnt stand 3 oclock.
> > Have you talked to
> > > Elecraft support and what did they say?
> > >
> > > Jim K4JAF
> > >
> > >
> > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > From: "Ralph Parker" <[hidden email]>
> > > To: <[hidden email]>
> > > Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 1:16 AM
> > > Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Low speaker output problem
> > >
> > >
> > > > Hi gang:
> > > > Here's the situation -
> > > > Headset audio level is OK, AF gain at 11 o'clock
> > with my Sony MDR-V6es.
> > > > I get barely enough audio output from the speaker
> > with the gain at 3
> > > > o'clock.
> > > > I have to set it full CW to hear the audio while
> > I work around the shack.
> > > > Audio is not distorted at his setting.
> > > > Same problem with the built-in or separate
> > speakers.
> > > > AF GAIN is set to HI.
> > > > I just did the DSP UPG to ol' 1823, and uploaded
> > the newest firmware.
> > > > It made no difference in audio output.
> > > > This situation has existed since I first got the
> > radio.
> > > >
> > > > Here's the question -
> > > > Anybody else notice this?
> > > > Did I miss a mod or upgrade?
> > > > Should I get out the schematic and make my own
> > mod?
> > > > Suggestions gratefully received.
> > > >
> > > > VE7XF
> > > >
> > > >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > > > Elecraft mailing list
> > > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> > > >
> > > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > >
> > >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > > Elecraft mailing list
> > > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> > >
> > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
>

drewko

Re: K3: Low speaker output problem

In reply to this post by Gary Ferdinand

Same here-- mostly 3 o'clock on the AF gain with the external speaker;
occasionally up to 11 o'clock. And it's a fairly noisy environment
here, especially in summertime with window A/C unit grinding away
nearby or windows open and dogs barking, jets flying over, cicadas
buzzing ,etc.

My K3 is an older one at 2+ years. I have attached a speaker baffle
inside the case but still used the same volume levels without it. I am
a CW op but also listen to AM broadcast on SW or MW, same volume.

Three o'clock on the AF gain control would be extreme for me, but does
not blow my ears off. I DO think the taper on the the K3 AF gain
control is a little weird in that I would expect the 3 o'clock
position to be much louder than it actually is. But I never set it
there and haven't fooled around with the AGC or noise parameters to
see what difference they make.

73,
Drew
AF2Z

On Tue, 07 Sep 2010 16:15:00 -0400, you wrote:

>My K3 does not act like you describe. I can blow my ears off with the
>external speaker set to 3:00. Regardless of the NR/NB settings and I've
>played with the settings for each. This with extremely weak sigs from mid
>east on 80 and with width settings down to 200 cps. 9:00 with cans and
>11:00 max with speaker, usually less. Perhaps there's two groups of K3s out
>there having different characteristics. Mine is #4495. I have not changed
>the factory settings for AGC at all. I have played with the NR/NB settings.
>I've found that although the NR does attenuate the background noise, it
>improves the SNR such that my speaker/headset controls remain pretty much
>the same as w/o NR or a tad higher. The gain adjustment on the narrow
>filters is positive of course.
>
>Good luck es 73,
>
>Gary W2CS
>
>

WA1NTA

Re: K3: Low speaker output problem

In reply to this post by Gary Ferdinand

Gary,

Perhaps you are correct, but my serial number is not much younger than
yours, only 200 or so, the only way I can get adequate volume from my K3
when the shack is noisy is to shut of the AGC, but that can be a two edged
sword. I can turn the volume all the way up and the depending on what I am
listening to it most often isn't too loud. (I'm not hard of hearing) My K3
is factory assembled, so I know it wasn't my fault :-)

73
George,
WA1NTA

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gary Ferdinand
Sent: Tuesday, September 07, 2010 4:15 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Low speaker output problem

My K3 does not act like you describe. I can blow my ears off with the
external speaker set to 3:00. Regardless of the NR/NB settings and I've
played with the settings for each. This with extremely weak sigs from mid
east on 80 and with width settings down to 200 cps. 9:00 with cans and
11:00 max with speaker, usually less. Perhaps there's two groups of K3s out
there having different characteristics. Mine is #4495. I have not changed
the factory settings for AGC at all. I have played with the NR/NB settings.
I've found that although the NR does attenuate the background noise, it
improves the SNR such that my speaker/headset controls remain pretty much
the same as w/o NR or a tad higher. The gain adjustment on the narrow
filters is positive of course.

Good luck es 73,

Gary W2CS

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AC7AC

Re: Do I have a problem?

In reply to this post by ussv dharma

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

DaveL G3TJP

Re: K3: Low speaker output problem

In reply to this post by Ralph Parker

I've had several bouts of no output and a couple of low output from my K3 #1122. It's been down to the speakers jack socket seemingly being a very sloppy fit with every one of several changes of jack plug.

I thought I'd tamed it by taping the speaker wires to another firmly secured cable in the hope that would keep all well and truly together, but on switching on after a few weeks of lack of use, my outboard speakers were "at it" again, and a good wiggling of the jack plug was required to alleviate the problem.

I don't know if this is a common problem or a unique one, but it is a minor irritant, especially if one speaker goes out and then comes back on as the other goes off. I kind of "wobble" on my chair when that happens HI!

73 all. Dave G3TJP
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AC7AC

Re: Do I have a problem?

In reply to this post by AC7AC

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3: Low speaker output problem

In reply to this post by DaveL G3TJP

Dave,

Check to confirm that you are using a 3.5mm plug on your speaker
cable and not a 1/8" plug. The difference is slight *BUT* it can
cause the "sloppy fit" behavior you are seeing.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 9/7/2010 7:50 PM, David Lankshear wrote:

> I've had several bouts of no output and a couple of low output from
> my K3 #1122. It's been down to the speakers jack socket seemingly
> being a very sloppy fit with every one of several changes of jack
> plug.
>
> I thought I'd tamed it by taping the speaker wires to another firmly
> secured cable in the hope that would keep all well and truly
> together, but on switching on after a few weeks of lack of use, my
> outboard speakers were "at it" again, and a good wiggling of the jack
> plug was required to alleviate the problem.
>
> I don't know if this is a common problem or a unique one, but it is a
> minor irritant, especially if one speaker goes out and then comes
> back on as the other goes off. I kind of "wobble" on my chair when
> that happens HI!
>
> 73 all. Dave G3TJP
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list Home:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
> http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
> mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Tim Tucker

Re: K3: Low speaker output problem

Because of this thread I decided to do a quick comparison of my K3 to
another rig. I have the W2IHY iPlus hooked up to both the K3 and 746 Pro
using the Icom SP-21 speaker. For those that aren't familiar with the
iPlus, it allows you (among other things) to switch your audio stack and
output speaker between two rigs. I switched both rigs back and forth on
some strong 75m stations tonight with both rigs' NB and NR turned off and RF
gain turned to max on each. Both rigs AGC were set to slow for posterity's
sake. I'm using the proper speaker cables on both rigs running to the iPlus
switch and then from the iPlus to the SP-21.

I tested the entire AF range of both rigs which switching back and forth on
the same RX stations. The results of this test show me that the Icom 746
Pro audio output is significantly greater than the K3. I don't have any
test equipment to measure this, but I could probably make an audio recording
if desired. The K3's audio wasn't too low and was generally very
comfortable, but the 746 Pro did have more output potential if desired. I
could see how the greater volume potential would be desired by those who are
hard of hearing. Keep in mind that this test is using a MONO speaker. I
could do the test again using some stereo headphones output from the iPlus
if there is any interest.

Tim
AE6LX

On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> Dave,
>
> Check to confirm that you are using a 3.5mm plug on your speaker
> cable and not a 1/8" plug. The difference is slight *BUT* it can
> cause the "sloppy fit" behavior you are seeing.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 9/7/2010 7:50 PM, David Lankshear wrote:
> > I've had several bouts of no output and a couple of low output from
> > my K3 #1122. It's been down to the speakers jack socket seemingly
> > being a very sloppy fit with every one of several changes of jack
> > plug.
> >
> > I thought I'd tamed it by taping the speaker wires to another firmly
> > secured cable in the hope that would keep all well and truly
> > together, but on switching on after a few weeks of lack of use, my
> > outboard speakers were "at it" again, and a good wiggling of the jack
> > plug was required to alleviate the problem.
> >
> > I don't know if this is a common problem or a unique one, but it is a
> > minor irritant, especially if one speaker goes out and then comes
> > back on as the other goes off. I kind of "wobble" on my chair when
> > that happens HI!
> >
> > 73 all. Dave G3TJP
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list Home:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
> > http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
> > mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
> > email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Guy, K2AV

Re: K3: Low speaker output problem

I have a pair of Radio Shack Minimus-7 speakers which I've had for 20
or 30 years. They have wonderful fidelity for speakers of that size.
For a long time I used a 30 watt stereo amp to drive them. What the
Minimus-7 does NOT have is any degree of efficiency. They are, in a
word, spectacularly NON-efficient. I'm not going to throw them away
by any means, but I will keep a amp in front of them. The amp I had
was a very 1960's design driving an output transformer matching the 8
ohm impedance with a rating of 30 watts per channel.

I was not able to get adequate volume out of the Minimus-7 when I put
them behind the K3. Replacing them with Radio Shack Optimus XTS-25, I
can raise the K3 volume to intolerable levels. There is nothing WRONG
with the Minimus-7, they simply require power to drive them, and were
designed to go behind forty watt amplifiers.

The point is that speakers have WILD variation in efficiency, that is
to say the voltage required on the speaker terminals to produce a
fixed sound pressure in front of the speaker. In some cases
inefficiency is DELIBERATELY used to smooth response, sometimes having
sound-absorbing, (therefore efficiency reducing) insulation inside the
case to dampen case resonances, and deal with other issues that work
against smooth frequency response.

**** It is for sure that there are some speakers which the K3 will not
drive adequately. ****

Before tearing apart your K3 looking for burned resistors, etc., see
if the speaker is one of those with deliberately engineered,
on-purpose low efficiency rated for higher wattage. If you have a
small speaker with multiple internal cones, a crossover, and rated at
50 watts, you most likely will not be able to drive it with your K3.

73, Guy.

On Wed, Sep 8, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Tim Tucker <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Because of this thread I decided to do a quick comparison of my K3 to
> another rig. I have the W2IHY iPlus hooked up to both the K3 and 746 Pro
> using the Icom SP-21 speaker. For those that aren't familiar with the
> iPlus, it allows you (among other things) to switch your audio stack and
> output speaker between two rigs. I switched both rigs back and forth on
> some strong 75m stations tonight with both rigs' NB and NR turned off and RF
> gain turned to max on each. Both rigs AGC were set to slow for posterity's
> sake. I'm using the proper speaker cables on both rigs running to the iPlus
> switch and then from the iPlus to the SP-21.
>
> I tested the entire AF range of both rigs which switching back and forth on
> the same RX stations. The results of this test show me that the Icom 746
> Pro audio output is significantly greater than the K3. I don't have any
> test equipment to measure this, but I could probably make an audio recording
> if desired. The K3's audio wasn't too low and was generally very
> comfortable, but the 746 Pro did have more output potential if desired. I
> could see how the greater volume potential would be desired by those who are
> hard of hearing. Keep in mind that this test is using a MONO speaker. I
> could do the test again using some stereo headphones output from the iPlus
> if there is any interest.
>
> Tim
> AE6LX
>
> On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 8:35 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>>
>> Dave,
>>
>> Check to confirm that you are using a 3.5mm plug on your speaker
>> cable and not a 1/8" plug. The difference is slight *BUT* it can
>> cause the "sloppy fit" behavior you are seeing.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 9/7/2010 7:50 PM, David Lankshear wrote:
>> > I've had several bouts of no output and a couple of low output from
>> > my K3 #1122. It's been down to the speakers jack socket seemingly
>> > being a very sloppy fit with every one of several changes of jack
>> > plug.
>> >
>> > I thought I'd tamed it by taping the speaker wires to another firmly
>> > secured cable in the hope that would keep all well and truly
>> > together, but on switching on after a few weeks of lack of use, my
>> > outboard speakers were "at it" again, and a good wiggling of the jack
>> > plug was required to alleviate the problem.
>> >
>> > I don't know if this is a common problem or a unique one, but it is a
>> > minor irritant, especially if one speaker goes out and then comes
>> > back on as the other goes off. I kind of "wobble" on my chair when
>> > that happens HI!
>> >
>> > 73 all. Dave G3TJP
>> > ______________________________________________________________
>> > Elecraft mailing list Home:
>> > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help:
>> > http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post:
>> > mailto:[hidden email]
>> >
>> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this
>> > email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> >
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Merv Schweigert

Re: K3: Low speaker output problem

> **** It is for sure that there are some speakers which the K3 will not
> drive adequately. ****
>
>
> 73, Guy.
>
>
I have had what some would call low audio out of serial number 26XX
since new,
to suit my tastes I drove a set of computer speakers that are amplified,
and they
worked fair, I have since changed to a set of Motorola speakers and an
outboard
solid state stereo amp about 10 watts, works great and the speakers
have good
communications audio.
Compared to several other brands of radios the K3 has much less audio
"power"
than any of them, not sure it there is a difference in K3s in the audio
department
or if its just my old ears, but I do not have enough audio to drive a
set of speakers
off the radio to decent volume without an external amp.
Headphone output is the same, I have to crank up the audio and if using
a narrow
filter and or DSP I do not have enough audio with the gain full open,
thats with
Heil cans, Yamaha cans, and several others tested. I plug the
headphones into the
external amps output and switch between cans and speakers.
I guess there could be a problem with my K3, but have run into several
others
who have similar results. So I assume there are differences in the
audio the same
as there is in the IF/RF gain between units.
Nothing that bothers me with the external amp in line. 73 Merv K9FD
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Edward R Cole

Re: K3: Low speaker output problem

In reply to this post by Ralph Parker

Being curious I checked my K3 (4043) which I run with an external
speaker (an old National 1950's era 10-inch speaker -probably 4 or
8-ohm). Comfortable audio with volume set at "9-oclock". Turning on
NB does not affect the level. NR lowers volume which requires
adjusting volume to "11-oclock" to bring it back to the same level
without NR (setting is F2-2).

I wear hearing aids in both ears for compensation of 30-dB loss in my
hearing. I find the level at "12-oclock" plenty loud for any signal
(really too loud). My wife can hear the radio anywhere in the house
with it at "11-oclock". BTW my Sony stereo headset hears at the same
level as the speaker. I believe they are typically 32-ohm (Sony
MDR-V600). I will be getting one of the Yamaha CM500 one of these
days for the convenience of the boom mike/headset.

But I guess this varies with what you connect to the radio.

Ed - KL7UW
PS: checked into the Alaska-Pacific Net this morning with 12w on
14.292. Amazing what can be done with very few watts.

------------------------------

Message: 6
Date: Tue, 07 Sep 2010 23:35:08 -0400
From: "Joe Subich, W4TV" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Low speaker output problem
To: [hidden email]
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Dave,

Check to confirm that you are using a 3.5mm plug on your speaker
cable and not a 1/8" plug. The difference is slight *BUT* it can
cause the "sloppy fit" behavior you are seeing.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45
======================================
BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com
EME: 144-QRT*, 432-100w, 1296-QRT*, 3400-fall 2010
DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email]
======================================
*temp
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