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K3 MTBF

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rfenabled

K3 MTBF

Does anyone know the MTBF of the K3...?
Gary
K3 ser# 679
VK4WT/P
Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra
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Matt Palmer-4

Re: K3 MTBF

Such a number is really meaningless to an amateur and without
information on the method in which it was computed.

Matt
W8ESE

On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 1:39 PM, <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Does anyone know the MTBF of the K3...?
> Gary
> K3 ser# 679
> VK4WT/P
> Sent via BlackBerry® from Telstra
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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David Woolley (E.L)

Re: K3 MTBF

Matt Palmer wrote:
> Such a number is really meaningless to an amateur and without
> information on the method in which it was computed.

I suspect the sort of things being referencedplgu here are:

- many pieces of modern electronics fail through old age in less hours
than their MTBF (e.g. computer disk drives), which means they are only
useful if you have many instances of the product and replace them before
they reach old age;

- MTBF doesn't account for things like lightning strikes and shorted
antenna cables;

- for a semi-kit, many failure modes will depend on the quality of the
assembly process and anti-static measures;

- failure rates are very temperature dependent and somewhat dependent on
other environmental factors, like humidity.

-

--
David Woolley
"we do not overly restrict the subject matter on the list, and we
encourage postings on a wide range of amateur radio related topics"
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gm3sek

Re: K3 MTBF

In reply to this post by rfenabled

rfenabled wrote:
>Does anyone know the MTBF of the K3...?

"Mean Time Between Firmware" ?

--

73 from Ian GM3SEK
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Matt Zilmer

Re: K3 MTBF

In reply to this post by David Woolley (E.L)

Please also note that SW is a component in MTBF, for embedded systems
(SDRs) like the K3. This is also true in consumer electronics (where
I'm stuck for the moment). We figure in SW failures as a statistical
value, but don't really count them as a full failure unless a unit is
"bricked" and becomes unusable. When you make millions of anything,
this does happen and needs to be counted. The case is quite different
for a unique and lower-volume product like the K3.

For consumer products that need an unanticipated power cycle or reset
to start working again, we assign a fractional failure. Usually 0.2
or 0.3 depending on the Annoyance Quotient to the end-user.

Many consumer products have SW MTBF in the hundreds of hours because
release intervals prevent thorough debugging and bug fixing. That's
one factor, but so is software complexity. From anecdotal evidence
(I'm not an Elecraft insider, so it's mostly from this list), it looks
like the collective MTBF of the K3 due only to software has a much
better record than any consumer appliance has. At least that I've
heard about.

It goes without saying that the hardware platform is bulletproof. But
when something fails, it would probably occur first in switches and
controls, followed by connectors, and last place would likely be the
electronics itself.

Be glad Wayne, Lyle, Eric, the Aptos crew, and a large assemblage of
Field Testers all try to break the K3 firmware in advance of most
releases.

Now - I wonder if Wayne or Eric have any data collected on MTBF.... I
bet that's one of those trade secret thingies.... :)

73,
matt W6NIA

On Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:47:44 +0000, you wrote:

>Matt Palmer wrote:
>> Such a number is really meaningless to an amateur and without
>> information on the method in which it was computed.
>
>I suspect the sort of things being referencedplgu here are:
>
>- many pieces of modern electronics fail through old age in less hours
>than their MTBF (e.g. computer disk drives), which means they are only
>useful if you have many instances of the product and replace them before
>they reach old age;
>
>- MTBF doesn't account for things like lightning strikes and shorted
>antenna cables;
>
>- for a semi-kit, many failure modes will depend on the quality of the
>assembly process and anti-static measures;
>
>- failure rates are very temperature dependent and somewhat dependent on
>other environmental factors, like humidity.
>
>-