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K3 Monitor

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Ed Gray W0SD

K3 Monitor

It is my understanding that the monitor audio in the K3 was not so good
early on but that this has been taken care of and has been OK for quite
awhile.

The past two days I have gotten extensive on the air checks on 10 meters
in preparation for the 10M contest coming up this week end as the
monitor does not sound right to me. It sounds like there is a echo.
However I have run checks with locals at S-9+ and with stations 200
miles away at S-0 to S-7 with QSB and I am getting great audio reports.

The real clincher is I listen on my other K3 with the attenuator on and
RF gain backed off and it sounds good. Something does not seem correct
with my monitor audio, ie it is not a true representation of what the
transmitter sounds like. Does anyone have any ideas?

Ed W0SD

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Barry Simpson

RE: K3 Monitor

Hi Ed

My monitor had a similar effect on SSB when I first got my K3. It was more
of a delay in the monitor rather than an echo.

However various firmware updates appear to have eliminated the issue. I am
running the next to the last beta firmware update. I wonder what version you
are running ?

73

Barry VK2BJ

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Jan Erik Holm

Re: K3 Monitor

In reply to this post by Ed Gray W0SD

Monitor does not sound good. It never has and it doesn´t
now with the latest FW.
The only way is to listen to yourself in another RX.

/ Jim SM2EKM
---------------
Ed Gray W0SD wrote:

> It is my understanding that the monitor audio in the K3 was not so good
> early on but that this has been taken care of and has been OK for quite
> awhile.
>
> The past two days I have gotten extensive on the air checks on 10 meters
> in preparation for the 10M contest coming up this week end as the
> monitor does not sound right to me. It sounds like there is a echo.
> However I have run checks with locals at S-9+ and with stations 200
> miles away at S-0 to S-7 with QSB and I am getting great audio reports.
>
> The real clincher is I listen on my other K3 with the attenuator on and
> RF gain backed off and it sounds good. Something does not seem correct
> with my monitor audio, ie it is not a true representation of what the
> transmitter sounds like. Does anyone have any ideas?
>
> Ed W0SD
>

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KK7P

Re: K3 Monitor

In reply to this post by Ed Gray W0SD

> ... Something does not seem correct
> with my monitor audio, ie it is not a true representation of what the
> transmitter sounds like. Does anyone have any ideas?

With MON, you hear the slightly delayed audio from the monitor as well
as your own voice. This may be perceived by some as a slight echo.

The delay is due to how DSP works.

Tx audio is processed by the DSP (leveled, filtered and equalized),
converted to a nominal 15 kHz IF, clipped (if compression is on) and
then sampled, downconverted to audio, filtered again, and passed to the
speaker or headphones (or, now, LINE OUT :-)

There is some delay associated with all of this processing. This is
most likely what you are hearing as a slight echo effect.

If you record MON and then play it back while you are not speaking,
you'll hear no echo.

If you have the KDVR3 installed, listen to a voice message. No echo.

73,

Lyle KK7P

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Ed Gray W0SD

Re: K3 Monitor

Lyle,
Thanks for the info! It sounds absolutely correct as the DVR that I am
inputting on "line in" from my computer sounds a lot better in the
monitor. I did find out when using line in that the mic is still "HOT"
which makes sense. This leads to the question??? With the KDVR3 when
sending over the air is the mic muted? I don't have a KDVR3 yet but am
planning on getting it for at least one of my K3's.

Ed W0SD

Lyle Johnson wrote:

>> ... Something does not seem correct with my monitor audio, ie it is
>> not a true representation of what the transmitter sounds like. Does
>> anyone have any ideas?
>
> With MON, you hear the slightly delayed audio from the monitor as well
> as your own voice. This may be perceived by some as a slight echo.
>
> The delay is due to how DSP works.
>
> Tx audio is processed by the DSP (leveled, filtered and equalized),
> converted to a nominal 15 kHz IF, clipped (if compression is on) and
> then sampled, downconverted to audio, filtered again, and passed to the
> speaker or headphones (or, now, LINE OUT :-)
>
> There is some delay associated with all of this processing. This is
> most likely what you are hearing as a slight echo effect.
>
> If you record MON and then play it back while you are not speaking,
> you'll hear no echo.
>
> If you have the KDVR3 installed, listen to a voice message. No echo.
>
> 73,
>
> Lyle KK7P

KK7P

Re: K3 Monitor

> ...I did find out when using line in that the mic is
> still "HOT" which makes sense.

This is true if MIC+LINE IN is turned on; otherwise MIC or LINE IN is
active, but not both.

> This leads to the question??? With the KDVR3 when
> sending over the air is the mic muted?

I believe it is muted in the current firmware.

73,

Lyle KK7P
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W8ZN

Re: K3 Monitor

In reply to this post by Ed Gray W0SD

Ed raises a good question, with the built in isolation transformers in the K3, computer audio into the Line in now sounds great. With the mic+line enabled to allow the computer to call CQ's and a live mic connected to either the FPL or RPL, is there a way to mute the "live" mic while audio comes in the LINE in? Or does the noise gate only affect the mic amp stages?

I guess the only way to do this would be if the rig is keyed via RTS or DTR, only the line in is active, but if keyed via vox or PTT, the mic is active???

Thanks,

Terry -W8ZN
-------------- Original message ----------------------
From: Ed Gray W0SD <[hidden email]>

> Lyle,
> Thanks for the info! It sounds absolutely correct as the DVR that I am
> inputting on "line in" from my computer sounds a lot better in the
> monitor. I did find out when using line in that the mic is still "HOT"
> which makes sense. This leads to the question??? With the KDVR3 when
> sending over the air is the mic muted? I don't have a KDVR3 yet but am
> planning on getting it for at least one of my K3's.
>
> Ed W0SD
>
> Lyle Johnson wrote:
> >> ... Something does not seem correct with my monitor audio, ie it is
> >> not a true representation of what the transmitter sounds like. Does
> >> anyone have any ideas?
> >
> > With MON, you hear the slightly delayed audio from the monitor as well
> > as your own voice. This may be perceived by some as a slight echo.
> >
> > The delay is due to how DSP works.
> >
> > Tx audio is processed by the DSP (leveled, filtered and equalized),
> > converted to a nominal 15 kHz IF, clipped (if compression is on) and
> > then sampled, downconverted to audio, filtered again, and passed to the
> > speaker or headphones (or, now, LINE OUT :-)
> >
> > There is some delay associated with all of this processing. This is
> > most likely what you are hearing as a slight echo effect.
> >
> > If you record MON and then play it back while you are not speaking,
> > you'll hear no echo.
> >
> > If you have the KDVR3 installed, listen to a voice message. No echo.
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Lyle KK7P
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Ignacy

Re: K3 Monitor

In reply to this post by Ed Gray W0SD

I was happy with the K3 monitor and transmit audio after upgrading from 2.48 (I think) to 2.67. I was happy with TX power stability after the TX calibration on all bands; the defaults were far off on most bands..
Ignacy

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 Monitor

In reply to this post by W8ZN

Terry,

I believe Lyle answered that already.

I do not believe that muting the mic when PTT is asserted from the
RS-232 input is a good idea. Many logging programs use the RS-232
signals to activate transmit.

Some mics (mostly handhelds) are muted until their PTT switch is
depressed, but desk mics are usually wired with live AF signals.

73,
Don W3FPR

[hidden email] wrote:
> Ed raises a good question, with the built in isolation transformers in the K3, computer audio into the Line in now sounds great. With the mic+line enabled to allow the computer to call CQ's and a live mic connected to either the FPL or RPL, is there a way to mute the "live" mic while audio comes in the LINE in? Or does the noise gate only affect the mic amp stages?
>
> I guess the only way to do this would be if the rig is keyed via RTS or DTR, only the line in is active, but if keyed via vox or PTT, the mic is active???
>
> Thanks,
>
> Terry -W8ZN
>
>
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Barry N1EU

Muting mic when voice keying (was K3 Monitor)

Don Wilhelm-4 wrote

I do not believe that muting the mic when PTT is asserted from the
RS-232 input is a good idea. Many logging programs use the RS-232
signals to activate transmit.

Actually, I think that would be an excellent option: mute the mic input when PTT is asserted via the CAT RS-232 RTS/DTR line. In a typical contest setup, your computer logger/dvk'er will feed audio into K3 line in and assert PTT via RS-232 CAT port. When you use your mic, you can use K3 PTT input.

This would solve N1MM Logger's inability to mute the K3 mic while voice keying because the K3 doesn't offer separate level controls for mic and line (like the Orion does).

73,
Barry N1EU

KK7P

Re: K3 Monitor

In reply to this post by W8ZN

> ... With the mic+line enabled to allow the computer to
> call CQ's and a live mic connected to either the FPL or
> RPL, is there a way to mute the "live" mic while audio
> comes in the LINE in?

No. The problem is, what if you want the MIC to override the LINE IN?
Or vice versa? It quickly gets complicated.

If you choose MIC+LINE, then its up to you to not make noise while the
computer is sending audio, and to be sure the computer is quiet when you
speak :-)

> Or does the noise gate only affect the mic amp stages?

Tx Gate, if enabled, applies to the transmit audio path, regardless of
source.

73,

Lyle KK7P
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KK7P

Re: Muting mic when voice keying (was K3 Monitor)

In reply to this post by Barry N1EU

>> I do not believe that muting the mic when PTT is asserted from the
>> RS-232 input is a good idea. Many logging programs use the RS-232
>> signals to activate transmit.
>>
> Actually, I think that would be an excellent option: mute the mic input
> when PTT is asserted via the CAT RS-232 RTS/DTR line. In a typical contest
> setup, your computer logger/dvk'er will feed audio into K3 line in and
> assert PTT via RS-232 CAT port. When you use your mic, you can use K3 PTT
> input.

The K3 has a single internal line for PTT. It doesn't matter if it is
the front panel MIC, the rear panel PTT IN (e.g., footswitch), or
RTS|DTR from the RS232 connector. It can respond to PTT from any
available source; it cannot distinguish the source.

> This would solve N1MM Logger's inability to mute the K3 mic while voice
> keying because the K3 doesn't offer separate level controls for mic and line
> (like the Orion does).

The K3 in fact does have separate gain controls for the LINE IN and MIC
paths. When using the front panel, you can only adjust one at a time,
since there is only one knob.

An external program could easily set the active Tx audio path from MIC
to LINE IN, send the audio, then switch the Tx audio path back to MIC.

73,

Lyle KK7P
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Ed Gray W0SD

Re: Muting mic when voice keying (was K3 Monitor)

In reply to this post by Barry N1EU

I must be missing something. From the way I read the manual you just
turn Line in on and set the level and then you go back to Mic + line in
and the level for line in is retained and different than the mic level.
Did I not understand the manual?

Barry N1EU wrote:

>
> Don Wilhelm-4 wrote:
>> I do not believe that muting the mic when PTT is asserted from the
>> RS-232 input is a good idea. Many logging programs use the RS-232
>> signals to activate transmit.
>>
> Actually, I think that would be an excellent option: mute the mic input
> when PTT is asserted via the CAT RS-232 RTS/DTR line. In a typical contest
> setup, your computer logger/dvk'er will feed audio into K3 line in and
> assert PTT via RS-232 CAT port. When you use your mic, you can use K3 PTT
> input.
>
> This would solve N1MM Logger's inability to mute the K3 mic while voice
> keying because the K3 doesn't offer separate level controls for mic and line
> (like the Orion does).
>
> 73,
> Barry N1EU
>
>
>
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>
>
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>

MontyS

Re: Muting mic when voice keying (was K3 Monitor)

In reply to this post by Barry N1EU

My K3 has separate level controls for mic and line in. s/n 699. I use line
in for computer-generated audio, as many do I'm sure.

Monty K2DLJ

>
> This would solve N1MM Logger's inability to mute the K3 mic while voice
> keying because the K3 doesn't offer separate level controls for mic and
> line
> (like the Orion does).
>
> 73,
> Barry N1EU

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Ed Gray W0SD

KDVR3 Firmware request

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

First a little back ground as Wayne probably has not read the line-In +
Mic discussion.

When one uses the computer for a DVR for contesting an easy way to do it
is to take advantage of the Line Input but given one also wants to use
the mic for operating then the "MIC" is hot during the playing of the
DVR. For SO2R there are added issues of switching the DVR from the
computer and the mic between the two radios. Lyle KK7P pointed out that
an external program could easily set the active Tx audio path from MIC
to LINE IN, send the audio, then switch the Tx audio path back to MIC.
The problem is to get your program author to make those changes for the
K3 but definitely an option!

I am thinking the KDVR3 is a better way to go to cure the "hot" mic and
associated sound card problems. It also should get rid of the "black
box" for SO2R DVR with two radios with a KDVR3 in each radio. You still
have the issue of switching the mic between two radio.

Given there are 8 messages available with the KDRV3 that would be enough
for different contests and one could have some for guest operators. I
assume once you choose the "second" bank you stay there and you don't
have to tap rec/M1, rec/m2, etc. each time to use what I would call
message 5 and 6. It takes us a long time to get a DVR that is "high
quality, does not have pauses, starts right, ends promptly, has the
right amount of enthusiasm etc. What I am saying is once you have a
good one you want to save it for future use.

KDVR3 Firmware request: Would it be possible to have a KDVR3 menu item
where you could set it so you could not record over the top, ie erase,an
existing message without going back and changing this menu item?

Another reason for this request is if I understand what I read that
doing over the air recording would erase an existing message if the
buffer is full. It would be better if the on the air recording and play
back used separate memory but I don't think that is the case or for that
matter realistic. I apologize if it already works this way. Anyway it
seems to me there could be some conflict with using the on the air
record function and accidentally erasing DVR messages. Obviously there
is the "mistake" category where you accidentally record over/erase a
message and that is why a firmware choice to prevent this would be a
nice feature. Basically like the computer message with the second
chance "DO you really want to do this" idea.

There are a lot of on the air contest DVR's messages that are horrible!
Here at W0SD we don't ever want to have one of those so we spend a lot
of time getting a good one and even then one has to be careful that
other factors such as sound card problems, ground loops, etc. don't mess
things up. Of course there is the issue of getting the levels and sound
between the DVR and the Mic to sound the same. That is why I would like
to have a firmware choice to preventing erasing a good message on the
KDVR3 without being very intentional about it.

There was a request to use the computer key board to play the message
and that has merit rather than tapping the M1, etc. button on the K3 but
I can see where this at best would involve making it available to
programmers but this would be a good thing. When you go to SO2R with
two K3's this is also a contest software job but having it available to
programmers would be a good thing.

Conclusion: I am thinking the KDVR3 really has a market for contesters
especially with the firmware taking care of some things while at the
same time not messing things up for the operators who mainly want the
KDVR3 to record for on the air play back or I assume you can go to
"TEST" mode and send to line out and record on your computer, etc. to
save or send to others to listen to.

This just got me thinking: I wonder if it could be possible to send a
DVR from the computer on the line in and be recorded by the KDVR3. This
would be a relatively fast way of getting a DVR into the K3? Maybe it
is but if so I missed it.

Ed W0SD

Ed W0SD

Thanks,

Ed W0SD

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Ed Gray W0SD

Re: KDVR3 Firmware request

Dave, your points are very well taken! I agree that most of these
matters need to be dealt with in the contest/operating software.
However I still think that a firmware choice to prevent all but the most
intentional erasure of a message or recording with the KDVR3 would be a
good thing. It is like a computer file, once it is gone it is gone
forever unless there is a backup. If you spend the time to record a
good DVR on the KDVR3 I think having a choice so as to not lose it very
easily would add a lot as a reason to have a KDVR3. I think the same
would hold true of a nice on the air recording you made with the KDVR3.
I don't think this is not as serious as you should be able to play it
on the "line out" and save it on the computer and make backups and have
it for the rest of your life or send it to someone else. Of course if
you don't back it up you could lose it.

Another good use for the KDVR3 would be on a one or two person
DX-pedition, maybe larger. They can have the KDVR3 installed in the K3
and do their messages. With this firmware change they would not have to
be concerned about losing them. Often one or more of the team members
are not that familiar with the radio and could accidentally erase a
message. Generally you just have a laptop on a DX-pedition so using the
KDVR3 would be a great step forward IMHO. My experience from being on
several DX-peditions is that a laptop lacks when it comes to using a
contesting program with one or no com ports, etc.

Personally I can not get very enthused about plugging my microphone into
a computer and then running wires here and there. IMHO it just adds to
the chance of cable problems, etc. but that is personal preference.
This is even more true on a DX-Pedition, forget one cable and you are in
major trouble in the places I have been!!!

So we agree a lot of this should be handled by contesting software but I
think the KDVR3 installed in a K3 should be made as useful as reasonable
possible through the firmware or why sell it? I realize different K3
users have different likes for a KDVR3 but I think they would be
interested in protecting their effort in creating a good DVR message so
it was not easily erased just like your computer operating system gives
you a second chance before you delete something.

I think the beauty of the K3 firmware in that within reason things can
be done to enhance the use of the K3 with the KDVR3. It is not unusual
for me to spend 1 hour getting a "near perfect" DVR message. I would
like to have a way to protect that "near perfect" DVR. However I do
agree with Dave and never intended in trying to make it a SO2R DVR radio
even with two K3's. This is beyond what needs to be done in the K3
firmware and is not fair to the broad spectrum of K3 users most of which
have no interest on SO2R. For that matter I don't do SO2R but some of
the people who operate here do.

There is a downside to getting contesting software to do what you want
it to do and that is you have to convince the authors to do it for the
K3. Sometimes that is not as easy to do as it might seem.

Ed W0SD

Dave Hachadorian wrote:

> Before getting too wrapped up in so2r/contesting dvr/mic switching
> within the K3, keep in mind that Writelog, and N1MM, and probably other
> Windows-based contesting software, already have elegant solutions to
> that problem.
>
> You connect your mic to MONO MIC IN of the sound card, and STEREO LINE
> OUT from the sound card to the radios' LINE IN, with left channel going
> to the left radio, and right channel going to the right radio. Mic is
> muted when messages are playing. Messages can be re-recorded on the fly.
> Different messages can be stored in the voice of the different
> operators. Different messages can be used for S&P vs. CQ mode. With this
> setup, you don't need to connect a mic directly to the K3.
>
> Just some thoughts to keep the issue in perspective.
>
> Dave Hachadorian, K6LL
> Yuma, AZ
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ed Gray W0SD" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 5:49 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] KDVR3 Firmware request
>
>
>> First a little back ground as Wayne probably has not read the line-In
>> + Mic discussion.
>>
>> When one uses the computer for a DVR for contesting an easy way to do
>> it is to take advantage of the Line Input but given one also wants to
>> use the mic for operating then the "MIC" is hot during the playing of
>> the DVR. For SO2R there are added issues of switching the DVR from
>> the computer and the mic between the two radios. Lyle KK7P pointed
>> out that an external program could easily set the active Tx audio path
>> from MIC to LINE IN, send the audio, then switch the Tx audio path
>> back to MIC. The problem is to get your program author to make those
>> changes for the K3 but definitely an option!
>>
>> I am thinking the KDVR3 is a better way to go to cure the "hot" mic
>> and associated sound card problems. It also should get rid of the
>> "black box" for SO2R DVR with two radios with a KDVR3 in each radio.
>> You still have the issue of switching the mic between two radio.
>>
>> Given there are 8 messages available with the KDRV3 that would be
>> enough for different contests and one could have some for guest
>> operators. I assume once you choose the "second" bank you stay there
>> and you don't have to tap rec/M1, rec/m2, etc. each time to use what I
>> would call message 5 and 6. It takes us a long time to get a DVR that
>> is "high quality, does not have pauses, starts right, ends promptly,
>> has the right amount of enthusiasm etc. What I am saying is once you
>> have a good one you want to save it for future use.
>>
>> KDVR3 Firmware request: Would it be possible to have a KDVR3 menu
>> item where you could set it so you could not record over the top, ie
>> erase,an existing message without going back and changing this menu item?
>>
>> Another reason for this request is if I understand what I read that
>> doing over the air recording would erase an existing message if the
>> buffer is full. It would be better if the on the air recording and
>> play back used separate memory but I don't think that is the case or
>> for that matter realistic. I apologize if it already works this way.
>> Anyway it seems to me there could be some conflict with using the on
>> the air record function and accidentally erasing DVR messages.
>> Obviously there is the "mistake" category where you accidentally
>> record over/erase a message and that is why a firmware choice to
>> prevent this would be a nice feature. Basically like the computer
>> message with the second chance "DO you really want to do this" idea.
>>
>> There are a lot of on the air contest DVR's messages that are
>> horrible! Here at W0SD we don't ever want to have one of those so we
>> spend a lot of time getting a good one and even then one has to be
>> careful that other factors such as sound card problems, ground loops,
>> etc. don't mess things up. Of course there is the issue of getting
>> the levels and sound between the DVR and the Mic to sound the same.
>> That is why I would like to have a firmware choice to preventing
>> erasing a good message on the KDVR3 without being very intentional
>> about it.
>>
>> There was a request to use the computer key board to play the message
>> and that has merit rather than tapping the M1, etc. button on the K3
>> but I can see where this at best would involve making it available to
>> programmers but this would be a good thing. When you go to SO2R with
>> two K3's this is also a contest software job but having it available
>> to programmers would be a good thing.
>>
>> Conclusion: I am thinking the KDVR3 really has a market for contesters
>> especially with the firmware taking care of some things while at the
>> same time not messing things up for the operators who mainly want the
>> KDVR3 to record for on the air play back or I assume you can go to
>> "TEST" mode and send to line out and record on your computer, etc. to
>> save or send to others to listen to.
>>
>> This just got me thinking: I wonder if it could be possible to send a
>> DVR from the computer on the line in and be recorded by the KDVR3.
>> This would be a relatively fast way of getting a DVR into the K3?
>> Maybe it is but if so I missed it.
>>
>> Ed W0SD
>>
>> Ed W0SD
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Ed W0SD
>>
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>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
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> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.16/1843 - Release Date: 12/11/2008 8:36 AM
>

KK7P

Re: KDVR3 Firmware request

>>> Another reason for this request is if I understand what I read that
>>> doing over the air recording would erase an existing message if the
>>> buffer is full.

The 90-second record-off-the-air DVR loop buffer, and the eight DVR Tx
message memory buffers, are completely separate. You can't erase a Tx
Buffer message with an Rx recording, and vice versa.

At least, not with the current firmware :-)

73,

Lyle KK7P

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Ed Gray W0SD

Re: KDVR3 Firmware request

Thanks Lyle! For me that is great news!

I have another question on the KDVR3. If I am using PTT rather than VOX
can I play a DVR message by tapping for example M1. Let me explain
more. A long term problem with VHF contesting and using DVR on two
meters and above is hot switching the amplifier T/R relay at high power,
ie 8877 on two meters. By and large people use PTT and even then in
some cases a sequencer to be sure the amplifier T/R relay has to be
closed or at least gets a head start at two meters and up. If you use
DVR on VOX you soon burn up an amplifier T/R relay at Two meters and up
unless it is an expensive vaccum T/R and I have seen them go!

With the KDVR3 I am wondering when using the K3 with a XVERTER if one
can key it and the amplifier it is driving with PTT and then play the
KDVR3 message tapping the M1, etc. key.

I am assuming if the VOX is not on the KDVR3 will not key up the radio
if you accidently hit M1, etc. However I am wondering since in USB or
LSB you can send CW even though the radio has the VOX turned off. Put
another way you can not transmit with the mic until you engage PTT but
if you hit the key it still works jsut like VOX. Maybe there is a
setting where that can be defeated but if so I have missed it?

Ed W0SD

Lyle Johnson wrote:

>>>> Another reason for this request is if I understand what I read that
>>>> doing over the air recording would erase an existing message if the
>>>> buffer is full.
>
> The 90-second record-off-the-air DVR loop buffer, and the eight DVR Tx
> message memory buffers, are completely separate. You can't erase a Tx
> Buffer message with an Rx recording, and vice versa.
>
> At least, not with the current firmware :-)
>
> 73,
>
> Lyle KK7P
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
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> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com
> Version: 8.0.176 / Virus Database: 270.9.16/1843 - Release Date: 12/11/2008 8:36 AM
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-3

RE: Muting mic when voice keying (was K3 Monitor)

In reply to this post by Barry N1EU

> This would solve N1MM Logger's inability to mute the K3 mic
> while voice keying because the K3 doesn't offer separate
> level controls for mic and line (like the Orion does).

All N1MM logger needs to do is read the mic gain (MG;), store
the value and issue an MG000; command to mute the mic. When
the message is over, issue MG##; with the stored value. It's
not brain surgery.

However, routing the microphone into the soundcard and the
soundcard output to the K3 mic input is far preferable as
it allows N1MM Logger (or WriteLog, WinTest, etc.) to handle
muting of the microphone while the wave file is running
automatically without transceiver commands or contention
over line vs. mic priority.

It's not even difficult to configure mic PTT or footswitch
to serve as a "dump" switch which cancels the wave file
in midstream and reconnects the microphone.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Barry N1EU
> Sent: Thursday, December 11, 2008 11:27 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] Muting mic when voice keying (was K3 Monitor)
>
>
>
>
> Don Wilhelm-4 wrote:
> >
> > I do not believe that muting the mic when PTT is asserted from the
> > RS-232 input is a good idea. Many logging programs use the RS-232
> > signals to activate transmit.
> >
> Actually, I think that would be an excellent option: mute
> the mic input when PTT is asserted via the CAT RS-232 RTS/DTR
> line. In a typical contest setup, your computer
> logger/dvk'er will feed audio into K3 line in and assert PTT
> via RS-232 CAT port. When you use your mic, you can use K3 PTT input.
>
> This would solve N1MM Logger's inability to mute the K3 mic
> while voice keying because the K3 doesn't offer separate
> level controls for mic and line (like the Orion does).
>
> 73,
> Barry N1EU
>
> --
> View this message in context:
> http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Monitor-tp1641973p1643966.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

Iain MacDonnell - N6ML

Re: KDVR3 Firmware request

In reply to this post by Ed Gray W0SD

Ed Gray W0SD wrote:

> Thanks Lyle! For me that is great news!
>
> I have another question on the KDVR3. If I am using PTT rather than VOX
> can I play a DVR message by tapping for example M1. Let me explain
> more. A long term problem with VHF contesting and using DVR on two
> meters and above is hot switching the amplifier T/R relay at high power,
> ie 8877 on two meters. By and large people use PTT and even then in
> some cases a sequencer to be sure the amplifier T/R relay has to be
> closed or at least gets a head start at two meters and up. If you use
> DVR on VOX you soon burn up an amplifier T/R relay at Two meters and up
> unless it is an expensive vaccum T/R and I have seen them go!
>
> With the KDVR3 I am wondering when using the K3 with a XVERTER if one
> can key it and the amplifier it is driving with PTT and then play the
> KDVR3 message tapping the M1, etc. key.
>
> I am assuming if the VOX is not on the KDVR3 will not key up the radio
> if you accidently hit M1, etc.

Pressing M1 *does* key the radio even if you're in PTT mode, and it
should - I don't want to have to separately assert PTT (or use VOX) to
transmit a recorded audio message.

I don't drive an amplifier myself, but I understand that there's a
configurable delay between they KEY OUT of the K3 and actual transmit.
I expect it should apply to DVR-initiated TX as well as PTT . Wouldn't
that be sufficient?

> However I am wondering since in USB or
> LSB you can send CW even though the radio has the VOX turned off. Put
> another way you can not transmit with the mic until you engage PTT but
> if you hit the key it still works jsut like VOX. Maybe there is a
> setting where that can be defeated but if so I have missed it?

Are you asking about the CW key or the M1 button? The CW key will only
be active in SSB mode if you have turned on "SSB +CW" in CONFIG:CW WGHT
(manual page 53). Whether or not that should key the radio without VOX
or PTT is an interesting question, but I'm not sure if it's the one
you're asking! :)

~Iain / N6ML

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