K3 Obsolete?
Locked
 
|
The DSP chip in the K3 - TMS320VC33PGE
(as of Sept 2008 per TI) is Not Recommended for New Design (i.e., obsolete) and a "lifetime buy" order is in effect http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tms320vc33.pdf the potential replacement (TMS320C6727B) is "similar but not functionally equivalent" - whatever that means. The D/A converter is listed as obsolete and no longer available. Should we be concerned ? Ken
73
Ken |
|
|
> The D/A converter is listed as obsolete and no longer available.
>From what I see on the TI site, the part you mentioned is listed as 'not recommended for new designs'. While there is no factory stock at the moment they are expecting >10K on Dec 15th, so it is still in production, and distributors still show stock on hand. > Should we be concerned ? Not me. Eric and Wayne maybe, but that would be their decision. While there are companies I feel I could manage better than the current owners, Elecraft is not one of them. Mark AD5SS On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 9:27 AM, Ken_ke2n <[hidden email]> wrote: > > The DSP chip in the K3 - TMS320VC33PGE > (as of Sept 2008 per TI) > is Not Recommended for New Design (i.e., obsolete) > and a "lifetime buy" order is in effect > > http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tms320vc33.pdf > > the potential replacement (TMS320C6727B) is "similar but not functionally > equivalent" - whatever that means. > > The D/A converter is listed as obsolete and no longer available. > > Should we be concerned ? > > Ken > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
I would be more concerned with YaeComWood and their proprietary chips than
anything Elecraft makes. Try to find components for some of the other rigs... Mike AI4NS _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
In reply to this post by Ken_ke2n
The K3 is designed for a long production life.
The use of functional circuit modules, like the DSP board or the synthesizer board, allows us to upgrade and improve and support the radio with a simple board swap. To my knowledge there are *no* components that are on a "lifetime buy" or "no longer in production" status. You can be certain that we monitor the supply chain very closely, and that we want to ensure a long life for our premier product! 73, Lyle KK7P _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
In reply to this post by Ken_ke2n
oops - I see I put in the wrong link (although one of the reply-ee's found it)
it should be this one for the DSP http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tms320vc33.html the D/A chip that I was referring to is the TI one too ... also tried to find the the TI D/A chip on Mouser and Digikey and got the obsolete designation as well. I am not surprised that there is a big batch of the TMS chips coming. That's what they do: announce upcoming obsolescence, get an idea of who wants how many and then make one final big batch and no more after. I doubt anything in this fast moving technology is designed for a long product life. Its basically cell phone technology that is driving the market and they try to sell me a cell phone every two years. I believe that unless I am unlucky the chips in my K3 will last longer than I will. However, I have never bought a rig before that had obsolete parts in it when I opened the box. But that is the way things are these days... Ken
73
Ken |
|
|
I believe that unless I am unlucky the chips in my K3 will last longer than I will.
Let me re-phrase that. Unless my K3 is unlucky (gets struck by lightning) it should last a long time. I myself personally hope to last through a couple more new radios :-)
73
Ken |
|
|
In reply to this post by Ken_ke2n
> it should be this one for the DSP
> > http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tms320vc33.html That page _DOES_NOT_ say the chip is 'obsolete', it says 'Product is Not Recommended for New Design'. Go ahead and do a text search on the page, the word obsolete is not on the page. If you read to the bottom of the page you see the >10K of chips in the pipeline, and you see a recent update of distributor stock. > However, I have never bought a rig before that had obsolete parts in it when > I opened the box. (Seems to me that most (all?) of the modern rigs I've bought had a bunch of proprietary chips in them. Who can tell if they're obsolete?) If this really bothers you I can think of two options: 1/buy a YaeComWood, or 2/start your own company and design a competitor to the K3. Competition is a good thing. Mark AD5SS On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 5:25 PM, Ken_ke2n <[hidden email]> wrote: > > oops - I see I put in the wrong link (although one of the reply-ee's found > it) > > it should be this one for the DSP > > http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tms320vc33.html > > the D/A chip that I was referring to is the TI one too ... > also tried to find the the TI D/A chip on Mouser and Digikey and got the > obsolete designation as well. > > I am not surprised that there is a big batch of the TMS chips coming. That's > what they do: announce upcoming obsolescence, get an idea of who wants how > many and then make one final big batch and no more after. > > I doubt anything in this fast moving technology is designed for a long > product life. Its basically cell phone technology that is driving the market > and they try to sell me a cell phone every two years. > > I believe that unless I am unlucky the chips in my K3 will last longer than > I will. > > However, I have never bought a rig before that had obsolete parts in it when > I opened the box. > > But that is the way things are these days... > > Ken Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
At 08:40 PM 11/11/2008, Mark Bayern wrote...
> > it should be this one for the DSP > > > > http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tms320vc33.html > >That page _DOES_NOT_ say the chip is 'obsolete', it says 'Product is >Not Recommended for New Design'. Same thing. You're obviously not familiar with semiconductor marketing, and how they "spin" things. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
In reply to this post by Ken_ke2n
Ok - trying to retrace my steps on the internet search
the TMS is NRND - not obsolete (yet) the "TLV320ACC23" as indicated on the schematic was not found - I just looked at the first few chips and THEY were all obsolete. I am guessing that the schematic has a typo and the device is TLV320AIC23 (K3 DSP IF: CODECS drawing 2004051101) this part is also NRND, but not obsolete. Sorry for the confusion - my "lifetime buy" comment was incorrect (applied to a different part) Ken I am not worried; my 25 year old ICOM with all its proprietary chips still works. Check back with me on the K3 in, say, September of 2033 - I'll bet it still works....
73
Ken |
|
|
Ken_ke2n wrote:
> Ok - trying to retrace my steps on the internet search > > the TMS is NRND - not obsolete (yet) Probably the worst that could happen if a chip disappeared would be that elecraft would have to design a new board with newer chips when the supply of old boards/chips ran out. Then Lyle or his grandson would have to make appropriate code changes for it. The K3 Utility would (hopefully) detect the board level and load the appropriate code. Big deal! -- 73, Vic, K2VCO Fresno CA http://www.qsl.net/k2vco _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
In reply to this post by Mike S-8
Well, I just concluded eight-plus years as a senior tech writer at
a major Silicon Valley semiconductor manufacturer, so I know a little about this phraseology. :-) "Not recommended for new designs" means: "We've got a ton of this generation in the bins, so we'll keep selling them to our big customers and distributors, if they really want them, until we run out. And that's not going to happen any time soon. But you know, this generation has always been a little buggy; some things never quite worked the way we expected. We'll continue to support it and all its errata and patches because we have to, but really, we're just not very keen about it any more. We've got a new, improved, more capable, more expensive generation out there on the market already, and another two generations beyond that are already in the development pipeline, so... well, not to put too fine a point on it, you know, but we'd really prefer that you buy our newer stuff. You'll find our support for the new stuff to be much livelier and more enthusiastic." "Obsolete" means: "Some of our distributors likely still have a lot of this old stuff back in their warehouses, so you can still get it. Cheap! And since nobody ever volunteers to go pawing through our public website to weed out all the obsolete app notes, you can probably still find stuff on it if you dig deep enough... But look, we're not making it any more, and we've shut down all real-time tech support for it. The engineers who designed it aren't even here anymore. If you call, our guys won't even talk to you about it. Basically, you're on your own. Sorry about that." That's about the gist of it. :-) Bill W5WVO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike S" <[hidden email]> To: "Mark Bayern" <[hidden email]> Cc: "Ken_ke2n" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [K3] [Elecraft] K3 Obsolete? > At 08:40 PM 11/11/2008, Mark Bayern wrote... > > > it should be this one for the DSP > > > > > > http://focus.ti.com/docs/prod/folders/print/tms320vc33.html > > > >That page _DOES_NOT_ say the chip is 'obsolete', it says 'Product is > >Not Recommended for New Design'. > > Same thing. You're obviously not familiar with semiconductor marketing, > and how they "spin" things. > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
In reply to this post by Mike S-8
> Same thing. You're obviously not familiar with semiconductor marketing, and
> how they "spin" things. No it is not. It can also mean that they have a newer model that is more cost effective, easier to build, faster, etc ...Eventually any chip will be obsolete, but this only means what it says, 'not recommended for new designs'. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
At 10:17 PM 11/11/2008, Mark Bayern wrote...
> > Same thing. You're obviously not familiar with semiconductor > marketing, and > > how they "spin" things. > >No it is not. Obsolete - Outmoded in design, style, or construction. QED. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
In reply to this post by Mark Bayern
I believe the FT-847 was discontinued because finding some key parts became
impossible and Yaesu didn't want to redesign an old-ish radio. As for buying a Kenwood - I have the TS-480 and TS-2000 and would like to see a new Kenwood HF radio, with any luck pure analgue. Simon Brown, HB9DRV www.ham-radio-deluxe.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mark Bayern" <[hidden email]> > > If this really bothers you I can think of two options: 1/buy a > YaeComWood, or 2/start your own company and design a competitor to the > K3. Competition is a good thing. > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
In reply to this post by Ken_ke2n
> the TMS is NRND - not obsolete (yet)
Correct. Remember, the K3 has been in active development - and the focus of my efforts - since the summer of 2003. We did a lot of research in choosing this particular DSP for the K3. It was chosen for very good reasons. This part is still in production. TI's track record with their DSPs is that they remain in production for several years after they reach NRND status, and they give their customers at least a year's notice for any so-called "lifetime buy". There has been no such notice, and the NRND status only occurred in the last several months. > the "TLV320ACC23" as indicated on the schematic was not found - I just > looked at the first few chips and THEY were all obsolete. > > I am guessing that the schematic has a typo and the device is TLV320AIC23 Yes, the schematic has a typo. The CODEC is a TLV320AIC23B. TI claims it is "active." It is not NRND, it is not obsolete. It is in full production and fully supported. The Transmit DAC is a TI TLV320DAC23. Same story. --- There is absolutely nothing to worry about here. Relax. Get on the air. Call CQ. Even if there were lots of sunspots, there would be no signals if everyone just listens! Enjoy your K3! 73, Lyle KK7P _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
I am here in China this week so cannot be on the air - only send trouble-making emails ...
but will be back tomorrow night in time for part 2 of the ARRL EME test - where I will be using my new K3. thanks for the clarification - at least I did find a typo for elecraft to fix ... 73 Ken
73
Ken |
«
Return to [K3]
|
1 view|%1 views
| Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |