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K3 Off Grid

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David Peterson

K3 Off Grid

I would like to operate my K3 off grid.

I would like detailed information on this. I am not a technical ham, so, I will need detailed help.

I am working on the "technical side," but this takes time!

In advance, thanks for your help.

David
KA9GEU
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Re: K3 Off Grid

David, it just means that you will not use commercial AC power for anything. You will need a 12 volt battery and a means of charging your battery without using AC supplied by the grid. You could charge it by an automobile engine, which means that any mobile is off grid. You could get a solar charger or use a generator. It brings me to wonder why you want to operate off grid when you don't know what it means.

Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart

________________________________
From: David Peterson <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Monday, March 3, 2014 6:03 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Off Grid

I would like to operate my K3 off grid.

I would like detailed information on this. I am not a technical ham, so, I will need detailed help.

I am working on the "technical side," but this takes time!

In advance, thanks for your help.

David
KA9GEU
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Re: K3 Off Grid

Maybe I need to explain further. The grid is the network that provides power in most modern countries. It is a network of wiring and switches so that power generated by power plants connected to the grid can be directed from where it is generated to where it is needed by the power companies without sending excessive current through any portion of the grid to overload the equipment or waste any more power than is needed to supply all users. If a power plant is lost or needs to shut down for repair or modification it can be accommodated by other power plants picking up the load. Power Generating companies sell each other power and no bodies lights go out unless there is a real problem and then the companies switch to load shedding so that less critical loads can be shut down, but the goal is to avoid anyone not having the power they wish to pay for and use. I suppose that David wishes to operate free from the grid to prove a point, but the grid
is very efficient and you cannot save money by generating your own electricity unless the cost of transmission lines is excessive, such as a mountain cabin or pipeline equipment in a remote location. Hams might want to be capable of operating free of the grid for emergency operation when the community loses the ability to generate enough electricity, like the F-117s did to Bagdad during the Gulf Wars. Nuclear attacks or insane environmentalists getting their way comes to mind. In which case, we will need gasoline, diesel or propane fueled generators to fill the need until we can restore power. We will be in a world of hurt until we can reestablish the grid.

Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart

________________________________
From: Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]>
To: WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, March 3, 2014 10:31 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Off Grid

I'm glad someone answered his question. I've been a ham a tad over 60 years (and using Elecraft rigs since 1999), but "off the grid" baffled me -- though I seldom operate all battery. Made me think of grid squares used for 6 meters and such, but I didn't think that's what he meant. Thanks, Willis :-)

I don't get his reasons either. Maybe he will tell us why. But if
that's a primary goal the KX3 would be a better choice, I think.

73, Phil w7ox

On 3/3/14, 8:16 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote:

David, it just means that you will not use commercial AC power for anything. You will need a 12 volt battery and a means of charging your battery without using AC supplied by the grid. You could charge it by an automobile engine, which means that any mobile is off grid. You could get a solar charger or use a generator. It brings me to wonder why you want to operate off grid when you don't know what it means.

Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart ________________________________ From: David Peterson <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Sent: Monday, March 3, 2014 6:03 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Off Grid I would like to operate my K3 off grid. I would like detailed information on this. I am not a technical ham, so, I will need detailed help. I am working on the "technical side," but this takes time! In advance, thanks for your help. David
KA9GEU
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Re: K3 Off Grid

They often tell me that one should never ask an engineer the time because he will tell you how to build a watch! I plead guilty to that, but it seems that not all people who use the buzz words understand what they mean and not all people who would like an answer know what question to ask. The simple answer if to connect the K3 to your can battery, use QRP if you can and don't get too long winded and run your battery down so that you can't start the car when you want to leave. Back to answer number 1. All mobile rigs are off the grid!

Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart

________________________________
From: Gerald Manthey <[hidden email]>
To: WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, March 3, 2014 11:06 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Off Grid

Hello Willis
He was just wanting to use his K3 for camping trips. I explained a battery and either charge with jumper cables from his vehicle or a small solar panel to charge it with. I explained my set up and how I am off grid, most the time completely off grid. I also explained generators to him and explained how I use them to charge my battery banks when there is no sun for days. I also use wind turbine to charge my banks up. Also explained the benefit of having a generator during an emergency or power outage such as storms or snow storms, etc. I believe he has opted for a small quiet Honda Generator to power stuff camping and to charge his battery and run the rig.

Think I might have scared him with my set up. hihi the difference between living minimal and living normal off grid.
I believe a small battery would do him for camping, but the generator will help during any emergency even at home.
73's
Gerald KC6CNN

On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:53 PM, WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]> wrote:

Maybe I need to explain further. The grid is the network that provides power in most modern countries. It is a network of wiring and switches so that power generated by power plants connected to the grid can be directed from where it is generated to where it is needed by the power companies without sending excessive current through any portion of the grid to overload the equipment or waste any more power than is needed to supply all users. If a power plant is lost or needs to shut down for repair or modification it can be accommodated by other power plants picking up the load. Power Generating companies sell each other power and no bodies lights go out unless there is a real problem and then the companies switch to load shedding so that less critical loads can be shut down, but the goal is to avoid anyone not having the power they wish to pay for and use. I suppose that David wishes to operate free from the grid to prove a point, but the grid

> is very efficient and you cannot save money by generating your own electricity unless the cost of transmission lines is excessive, such as a mountain cabin or pipeline equipment in a remote location. Hams might want to be capable of operating free of the grid for emergency operation when the community loses the ability to generate enough electricity, like the F-117s did to Bagdad during the Gulf Wars. Nuclear attacks or insane environmentalists getting their way comes to mind. In which case, we will need gasoline, diesel or propane fueled generators to fill the need until we can restore power. We will be in a world of hurt until we can reestablish the grid.
>
>
>Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman
>K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart
>
>
>________________________________
> From: Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]>
>To: WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Monday, March 3, 2014 10:31 PM
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Off Grid
>
>
>
>I'm glad someone answered his question. I've been a ham a tad over 60 years (and using Elecraft rigs since 1999), but "off the grid" baffled me -- though I seldom operate all battery. Made me think of grid squares used for 6 meters and such, but I didn't think that's what he meant. Thanks, Willis :-)
>
>I don't get his reasons either. Maybe he will tell us why. But if
> that's a primary goal the KX3 would be a better choice, I think.
>
>73, Phil w7ox
>
>
>
>On 3/3/14, 8:16 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote:
>
>David, it just means that you will not use commercial AC power for anything. You will need a 12 volt battery and a means of charging your battery without using AC supplied by the grid. You could charge it by an automobile engine, which means that any mobile is off grid. You could get a solar charger or use a generator. It brings me to wonder why you want to operate off grid when you don't know what it means.
>
>Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman
>K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart ________________________________ From: David Peterson <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Sent: Monday, March 3, 2014 6:03 PM
>Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Off Grid I would like to operate my K3 off grid. I would like detailed information on this. I am not a technical ham, so, I will need detailed help. I am working on the "technical side," but this takes time! In advance, thanks for your help. David
>KA9GEU
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Bill Frantz

Re: K3 Off Grid

In reply to this post by Cookie

I fully agree with you about the value of the grid, but there
are more common reasons for the power going down that we should
protect against:

Ice storms: I remember stepping over the power lines
leading to a
B&B I thought I was going to spend the night at. That didn't
work, but for EmCom we need to be able to run our radios.

Earthquakes: The could knock our local power quite easily. (They
are our canonical "bad thing" for Los Gatos AREE/RACES planning.)

Hurricanes: They can knock down the power lines.

Tornados: Ditto

We don't need human foolishness to need emergency power.

I have a solar panel and batteries that will run my radio. At
100 watts, I may run short if there are a lot of messages that
need to be sent. I should run indefinitely at QRP levels.

The moral is, there may be emergency operations at QRP levels.
Give them some bandwidth.

Cheers - Bill. AE6JV

On 3/3/14 at 8:53 PM, [hidden email] (WILLIS COOKE) wrote:

> Hams might want to be capable of operating free of the grid
>for emergency operation when the community loses the ability to
>generate enough electricity, like the F-117s did to Bagdad
>during the Gulf Wars. Nuclear attacks or insane
>environmentalists getting their way comes to mind. In which
>case, we will need gasoline, diesel or propane fueled
>generators to fill the need until we can restore power. We
>will be in a world of hurt until we can reestablish the grid.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Bill Frantz | If the site is supported by | Periwinkle
(408)356-8506 | ads, you are the product. | 16345
Englewood Ave
www.pwpconsult.com | | Los Gatos,
CA 95032

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Dave, W8OV

Re: K3 Off Grid

In reply to this post by David Peterson

David,

I'll describe my setup for you. As others have mentioned, you need only
2 basic items, a 12V battery and some means of charging it. My
particular arrangement is as follows:

* 100Ah Group 31 12V battery. Mine is an AGM type, which is safer
than a wet cell type to keep indoors.
* 20A MPPT type charge controller to limit charging rate from solar
panel to battery to protect wires and battery.
* 60W solar panel to keep the battery topped off or for QRP use. I
had these on hand so use them when I can.
* 210W solar panel when I need to run full power for extended
times, e.g., Field Day, contests, etc.
* Battery charger for operation when sun is not available. Mine is
a BatteryMINDer 12248; many others available.
* TGE N8XJK Boost Regulator to keep the voltage to the K3 steady as
the battery is used, and to filter the "noise" from the BatteryMINDer.
* PWRcheck meter to keep tabs on voltage, current, etc.
* 1200W pure sine wave inverter; not needed for radio, but can run
our refrigerator all day in case of grid failure.

I also recommend the ARRL publication "Emergency Power for Radio
Communications" by Mike Bryce WB8VGE to enhance your "technical side."

I hope this helps. Best wishes on getting your K3 "off the grid".

73, Dave W8OV

On 3/3/2014 6:03 PM, David Peterson wrote:
> I would like to operate my K3 off grid.
>
> I would like detailed information on this. I am not a technical ham, so, I will need detailed help.
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k6dgw

Re: K3 Off Grid

In reply to this post by Cookie

I didn't read his question that way, it seemed he wanted to operate in
places where there are no power lines. I sold my KPA100 and KAT100
because I was always using my K2 at low power in the field, in the last
several years activating SOTA summits. I've settled on LiFePO4 as the
best choice. It's not "off the grid," all I'm doing is buying energy
from Pacific Gas and Electric, stuffing it into a little package, and
taking it with me in my pack.

Incidentally, if you charge your big battery with a gasoline generator,
you're still "on the grid." From an economic perspective, "energy is
energy," if it's not electrons coming from the power company in wires,
it's gasoline coming from a refinery in a pipe. Solar, wind, or if
you're fortunate enough to own a dam, can take you "off the grid." Be
sure and include the capital cost of the solar panels, turbines, or the
dam when you compute the cost of your energy. :-))

We all use propane here and my neighbor once commented that the price of
propane tracked the price of gasoline. He was sure it was a government
conspiracy [he has lots of those] and I don't think he believed me when
I told him it's just economics.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014
- www.cqp.org

On 3/3/2014 8:53 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote:

> I suppose that David wishes to operate free from the grid to prove a
> point, but the grid is very efficient and you cannot save money by
> generating your own electricity unless the cost of transmission lines
> is excessive, such as a mountain cabin or pipeline equipment in a
> remote location.

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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: K3 Off Grid

In reply to this post by Cookie

This is a great example of why people should use "REPLY LIST" or "REPLY
ALL" in their mail client.

This could have been a great discussion of camping and portable power,
about emergency operating, etc., but because it was nearly all off-list,
it wasn't.

73 -- Lynn

On 3/3/2014 9:25 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote:

> They often tell me that one should never ask an engineer the time because he will tell you how to build a watch! I plead guilty to that, but it seems that not all people who use the buzz words understand what they mean and not all people who would like an answer know what question to ask. The simple answer if to connect the K3 to your can battery, use QRP if you can and don't get too long winded and run your battery down so that you can't start the car when you want to leave. Back to answer number 1. All mobile rigs are off the grid!
>
> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman
> K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Gerald Manthey <[hidden email]>
> To: WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, March 3, 2014 11:06 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Off Grid
>
>
>
> Hello Willis
> He was just wanting to use his K3 for camping trips. I explained a battery and either charge with jumper cables from his vehicle or a small solar panel to charge it with. I explained my set up and how I am off grid, most the time completely off grid. I also explained generators to him and explained how I use them to charge my battery banks when there is no sun for days. I also use wind turbine to charge my banks up. Also explained the benefit of having a generator during an emergency or power outage such as storms or snow storms, etc. I believe he has opted for a small quiet Honda Generator to power stuff camping and to charge his battery and run the rig.
>
> Think I might have scared him with my set up. hihi the difference between living minimal and living normal off grid.
> I believe a small battery would do him for camping, but the generator will help during any emergency even at home.
> 73's
> Gerald KC6CNN
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 3, 2014 at 10:53 PM, WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Maybe I need to explain further. The grid is the network that provides power in most modern countries. It is a network of wiring and switches so that power generated by power plants connected to the grid can be directed from where it is generated to where it is needed by the power companies without sending excessive current through any portion of the grid to overload the equipment or waste any more power than is needed to supply all users. If a power plant is lost or needs to shut down for repair or modification it can be accommodated by other power plants picking up the load. Power Generating companies sell each other power and no bodies lights go out unless there is a real problem and then the companies switch to load shedding so that less critical loads can be shut down, but the goal is to avoid anyone not having the power they wish to pay for and use. I suppose that David wishes to operate free from the grid to prove a point, but the grid
>> is very efficient and you cannot save money by generating your own electricity unless the cost of transmission lines is excessive, such as a mountain cabin or pipeline equipment in a remote location. Hams might want to be capable of operating free of the grid for emergency operation when the community loses the ability to generate enough electricity, like the F-117s did to Bagdad during the Gulf Wars. Nuclear attacks or insane environmentalists getting their way comes to mind. In which case, we will need gasoline, diesel or propane fueled generators to fill the need until we can restore power. We will be in a world of hurt until we can reestablish the grid.
>>
>>
>> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman
>> K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Phil Wheeler <[hidden email]>
>> To: WILLIS COOKE <[hidden email]>
>> Sent: Monday, March 3, 2014 10:31 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Off Grid
>>
>>
>>
>> I'm glad someone answered his question. I've been a ham a tad over 60 years (and using Elecraft rigs since 1999), but "off the grid" baffled me -- though I seldom operate all battery. Made me think of grid squares used for 6 meters and such, but I didn't think that's what he meant. Thanks, Willis :-)
>>
>> I don't get his reasons either. Maybe he will tell us why. But if
>> that's a primary goal the KX3 would be a better choice, I think.
>>
>> 73, Phil w7ox
>>
>>
>>
>> On 3/3/14, 8:16 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote:
>>
>> David, it just means that you will not use commercial AC power for anything. You will need a 12 volt battery and a means of charging your battery without using AC supplied by the grid. You could charge it by an automobile engine, which means that any mobile is off grid. You could get a solar charger or use a generator. It brings me to wonder why you want to operate off grid when you don't know what it means.
>>
>> Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman
>> K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart ________________________________ From: David Peterson <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Sent: Monday, March 3, 2014 6:03 PM
>> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Off Grid I would like to operate my K3 off grid. I would like detailed information on this. I am not a technical ham, so, I will need detailed help. I am working on the "technical side," but this takes time! In advance, thanks for your help. David
>> KA9GEU
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Re: K3 Off Grid

That is why I put all my answers on the List. I felt that it was a general interest topic that most would enjoy. In spite of my opinion, I got one very pointed complaint for copying another's question to my answer on the list when he wanted to keep it private. This is a prime example of why one should ask questions as specific as possible. How do I use my K3 when I camp for a day is much different than how do I use my K3 off grid. Camping is certainly "Off Grid" but it is not the first thing that comes to mind. Camping with your car setting there is not the same as Camping with your camper equipped with house battery and engine battery and neither of these is the same as using your K3 at a wilderness cabin where you expect to be "Off Grid" till the snow melts north of Fairbanks. It seemed to me that the various meanings of "Off Grid" needed discussion, but perhaps the building of the watch was too much.

Willis 'Cookie' Cooke, TDXS DX Chairman
K5EWJ & Trustee N5BPS, USS Cavalla, USS Stewart

________________________________
From: "Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT" <[hidden email]>
To: [hidden email]
Sent: Tuesday, March 4, 2014 12:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Off Grid

This is a great example of why people should use "REPLY LIST" or "REPLY
ALL" in their mail client.

This could have been a great discussion of camping and portable power,
about emergency operating, etc., but because it was nearly all off-list,
it wasn't.

73 -- Lynn

On 3/3/2014 9:25 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote:

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Lynn W. Taylor, WB6UUT

Re: K3 Off Grid

It's a discussion list.

Replying off-list stifles discussion. It keeps valid and interesting
ideas away from the general list membership.

I don't see any time soon that I'll have a station where I live, so I'm
very interested in the camping/day outing approaches.

I'm interested in a more academic sense when it comes to living
permanently off-grid, but I'm still interested.

... and if someone wants a message kept private, then they probably
should rethink sending it.

73 -- Lynn

On 3/4/2014 12:07 PM, WILLIS COOKE wrote:
> That is why I put all my answers on the List. I felt that it was a
> general interest topic that most would enjoy. In spite of my opinion,
> I got one very pointed complaint for copying another's question to my
> answer on the list when he wanted to keep it private. This is a prime
> example of why one should ask questions as specific as possible.

<snipped>

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