K3 - P3 or LP-PAN comparison
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In another post I ask about sub-receiver versus panadapter. Here, a
question about type of panadapter. My station occupies a very small space, and adding the P3 would strain the real estate. So, I've been looking at other panadapter possibilities that use the computer screen for display. What sort of useful comparisons can be made between the P3 and the LP-Pan box/software? Are there any other panadapter options that I should consider? Thanks for any and all opinions. ...robert -- Robert G. Strickland, PhD, ABPH - KE2WY [hidden email] Syracuse, New York, USA ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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N8LP on his website has a very comprehensive and IMHO honest comparison of P3 and LP-PAN.
In snapshot, if you are strained on cash, good in computers, and occasional software problems are not an issue, use LP-PAN. If reliability and ability to change parameters fast via buttons are more important, P3 is good. I used SDR-IQ but eventually bought P3. Ignacy |
Re: K3 - P3 or LP-PAN comparison
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In reply to this post by RobertG
Robert,
The Perseus SDR, which uses a computer for display and control purposes, performs very well as a panadapter, also as a multi mode receiver which covers 10 kHz to 40 MHz The maximum span which can be displayed is 1600 kHz, and the minimum span is 800 Hz. The resolution bandwidth is stated to be 1 (one) Hz when the span is set for 800 Hz, which allows one to see clearly a weak CW signal separated by 10 - 11 Hz from a very much stronger CW signal ( 50 - 60 db stronger) at the narrower scan settings. I have never run out of markers when attempting to deduce (using my Perseus) the listening pattern of a DX station in a pileup, if he/she is following some sort of listening pattern. The dimensions of this SDR are 4.25 x 1.5 x 7.5 inches, and it weighs 380 grams (sorry for mixing Imperial with Metric!). I have no financial interests related to this SDR. 73, Geoff LX2AO On July 02, 2012 at 8:01 PM, Robert G. Strickland wrote: > In another post I ask about sub-receiver versus panadapter. Here, a > question about type of panadapter. My station occupies a very small > space, and adding the P3 would strain the real estate. So, I've been > looking at other panadapter possibilities that use the computer screen > for display. > Are there any other panadapter options that > I should consider? Thanks for any and all opinions. > > ...robert ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Ignacy
Could you give us the URL for the comparison. I've been on the page, but I
can't find it. Thanks and 73, Guy. On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Ignacy <[hidden email]> wrote: > N8LP on his website has a very comprehensive and IMHO honest comparison of > P3 > and LP-PAN. > > In snapshot, if you are strained on cash, good in computers, and occasional > software problems are not an issue, use LP-PAN. > > If reliability and ability to change parameters fast via buttons are more > important, P3 is good. > > I used SDR-IQ but eventually bought P3. > > Ignacy > > -- > View this message in context: > http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-P3-or-LP-PAN-comparison-tp7558493p7558497.html > Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3 - P3 or LP-PAN comparison
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Here's the direct link: http://www.telepostinc.com/P3_comp.html It's there plain as day about 1/3 of the way down the main LP-Pan page: http://www.telepostinc.com/LP-PAN.html Note - the comparison is between LP-Pan with NaP3 software and P3SVGA. LP-Pan/NaP3 is very computer intensive (PowerSDR is a resource hog) which is not adequately disclosed and the price comparisons are very biased by the cost of the SVGA option which increases the price of the base P3 by nearly 40%. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 7/2/2012 10:42 PM, Guy Olinger K2AV wrote: > Could you give us the URL for the comparison. I've been on the page, but I > can't find it. Thanks and 73, Guy. > > On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 3:22 PM, Ignacy <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> N8LP on his website has a very comprehensive and IMHO honest comparison of >> P3 >> and LP-PAN. >> >> In snapshot, if you are strained on cash, good in computers, and occasional >> software problems are not an issue, use LP-PAN. >> >> If reliability and ability to change parameters fast via buttons are more >> important, P3 is good. >> >> I used SDR-IQ but eventually bought P3. >> >> Ignacy >> >> -- >> View this message in context: >> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-P3-or-LP-PAN-comparison-tp7558493p7558497.html >> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com. >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 10:04 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
> ...LP-Pan/NaP3 is very computer intensive... ============== On my 2009-vintage Asus laptop, running LP-Bridge and LP-Pan increases CPU usage by about 15 percentage points. With MixW2 and VE7CC running and a web browser open, total CPU load is about 30%. I have an outboard 23" monitor configured as an extended desktop, and am using ASIO drivers for an EMU 0202. The NaP3 window is 13 1/2" wide, of which 12" is the panadapter picture of the band. There is enough CPU capability to display videos at full-screen size on the laptop screen while the rest of the stuff is running. Tony KT0NY -- http://www.isb.edu/faculty/facultydir.aspx?ddlFaculty=352 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3 - P3 or LP-PAN comparison
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NaP3 is not the only software required with LP-Pan. Most installations require LP-Bridge or some other software port sharing package to allow both NaP3 and a logging program to "share" control of the K3. Several logging packages fail to work properly with LP-Bridge to the point that their developers refuse to accept bug reports if LPB is running. The resource load of LP-Pan must include both NaP3 and LPB as well as the interference they cause to logging software. There is no such problem with the P3. 73, ... Joe, W4TV On 7/2/2012 11:36 PM, Tony Estep wrote: > On Mon, Jul 2, 2012 at 10:04 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> ...LP-Pan/NaP3 is very computer intensive... > > ============== > On my 2009-vintage Asus laptop, running LP-Bridge and LP-Pan increases CPU > usage by about 15 percentage points. With MixW2 and VE7CC running and a web > browser open, total CPU load is about 30%. I have an outboard 23" monitor > configured as an extended desktop, and am using ASIO drivers for an EMU > 0202. The NaP3 window is 13 1/2" wide, of which 12" is the panadapter > picture of the band. There is enough CPU capability to display videos at > full-screen size on the laptop screen while the rest of the stuff is > running. > > Tony KT0NY > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4
I guess that one can find advantages of P3, LP-Pan or something else depending on circumstances.
The main advantage of P3 is that it is standalone. No hassles of software installation, instantaneous turn on, and excellent integration with K3. But since the P3's the firmware is proprietary, it is modified dependent on Elecraft's priorities. For instance, a feature I am missing the most in P3 is noise blanker. Under heavy power noise, K3's noise blanker can work pretty well but P3's screen is covered by noise. In contrast, the noise blanker on SDR-IQ was extraordinary, allowing to see weak signals in the present of heavy noise. At least two solutions here: 1) request a feature from Elecraft, or 2) call the power company. I had many of software crashes with SDR-IQ. Perhaps no longer with new computer and new drivers but I have lost enough time... To tell the truth, the support of LP-PAN is more helpful than the support of SDR-IQ. Ignacy, NO9E |
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In reply to this post by RobertG
I use an SDR-IQ on the i-f output of my K3. I use LP-Bridge to share data between the K3, SpectraVue, DXBase logging and/or N1MM.
Additionally, with a laptop/SDR-IQ combination I have a nice little standalone receiver for travel use, although the sensitivity is poor without something like an active antenna. Disclaimer: I once owned an LP-PAN but sold it, I've never owned a P3 although I played with a preproduction one once. Wes Stewart N7WS --- On Mon, 7/2/12, Robert G. Strickland <[hidden email]> wrote: In another post I ask about sub-receiver versus panadapter. Here, a question about type of panadapter. My station occupies a very small space, and adding the P3 would strain the real estate. So, I've been looking at other panadapter possibilities that use the computer screen for display. What sort of useful comparisons can be made between the P3 and the LP-Pan box/software? Are there any other panadapter options that I should consider? Thanks for any and all opinions. ...robert -- Robert G. Strickland, PhD, ABPH - KE2WY [hidden email] Syracuse, New York, USA ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Ignacy
Note: The noise blanker in NaP3 works on the display as well.
Larry N8LP
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In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4
We used to compare LP-PAN / NaP3 to the P3, but the apt comparison now is with P3SVGA unless the user plans to use a 4" monitor on his PC ;-) NaP3 is not a resource hog. I am running it on PCs ranging from a P4 to an Atom to an i3. It runs fine on all of them. The E-MU 0204 can be a hog on older PCs, but you really have to try to find a PC that slow today.
Larry N8LP
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In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4
LP-Bridge is not intended to support every command that every app might use, but it supports 99% of the commands that most people use, and uses very few resources. The biggest issues come with macros and commands that require critical response timing, but LP-Bridge's ability to limit traffic to the rig compared to splitters that just send everything from all the apps to the rig is a big advantage. There are some rules that have to be obeyed when using multiple apps so that they don't work against each other and confuse the rig. LP-Bridge enforces those rules at the expense of supporting 100% of the commands from a given app. In some cases, LPB2 can be more useful if one app needs complete control and the others can live with the dozen most used commands.
One source of many problems is the use of USB to serial adapters. You have to be careful to use a good brand with the proper drivers, especially with win7 64-bit. Larry N8LP
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In reply to this post by n7ws
Some comments that may be helpful for both threads about the P3:
I have two K3s in an SO2R contest configuration. The K3 I use mostly for running has an LP-Pan and NaP3. I just installed the pre-amp option in my LP-PAN, and it works well, but I haven't done a contest with it yet. The run K3 also has a SubRX that I use almost exclusively for Diversity reception. The radio I use mostly for S&P has a P3 (no SVGA card) and no SubRX. Both panadapter solutions work well, but I have a preference for the P3, especially for S&P. The main reason is that the P3 display seems sharper and more responsive to me. This will sound odd, but the signals on LP-PAN/NaP3 seem slightly "fat" and "slow", and the screen display seems more chaotic that it does on the P3. It could be that the display is just that much bigger, but I don't know. I've not been able to make the NaP3 display look as good or respond as well as the P3 display. The main reason I use LP-PAN/NaP3 on the run radio is to check the band activity (i.e., is the band open enough to run?) I've tried to use it to find an empty space to run, but haven't had a lot of success with that. For some reason, that's easier to do with the P3. Another issue is screen real-estate. I happen to have a 24" main monitor that I use for the contest logger, a 20" second monitor that I use for NaP3 and a bunch of other utility programs and a 7" touch screen I use for a program I wrote called AntennaMaster that I use to select antennas, tune SteppIRs, tune my Acom amp, etc. If you have just one monitor, it's hard to find enough room on it for NaP3 and all the other things you might want to see during a contest. As for CPU usage, when I had a core2-Duo system, LP-PAN/PowerSDR-IF used a lot of CPU and the system fans would be humping it all contest. I worried about the heat stress that was putting on the system, especially the CPU. Now I have an i7-based system with an NVIDIA 570 graphics card and the CPU usage is much lower. CPU usage with LP-PAN/NaP3 is so low I barely notice that the fans are running a little faster. FWIW, I use LP-Bridge with Writelog and NaP3, and it works flawlessly. All in all, if the P3 was a little less expensive, I would use one on the run radio instead of LP-PAN/NaP3 (anybody want to sell me a used P3?) Now, I hasten to add that there are some advantages to the LP-PAN/NaP3 or LP-PAN/PowerSDR-IF solutions. For one thing, it can provide a sub receiver if you don't have one. Second, it can produce excellent filtering and audio for AM B/C stations without having to buy a 6 KHz filter for the K3. For another thing, PowerSDR-IF has some monitor modes that transform it into a very useful receive monitor scope (like being able to see the other station's transmit envelope.) LP-PAN is also a lot cheaper than a P3. Even if I had a P3 for the run K3, I wouldn't sell my LP-PAN. I would hook them up together (more feasible with the $25 LP-PAN pre-amp option installed because the pre-amp helps to compensate for the 3dB IF splitter loss in the P3.) On the SubRX, whether money should be spent on that over a P3 depends very much on what you do with the radio. I would probably go for the sub because it makes the K3 a much more powerful radio. If you're a DX-er, it's indispensable because it allows dual-watch. If you're a contester with the right kind of antennas (ideally, opposite polarity), Diversity reception can be an unbelievable upgrade to your station -- it was for mine. That said, I use a full-size 2-el 40m beam at 110' and a full-size 40m 4-square with 60 radials per element. That combo had better be good! As has been noted, Diversity does require purchasing identical filters for all bandwidths with which you want to do Diversity reception. If you aren't a DX-er or a serious contester, then a sub might be less important and a P3 might make more sense for the dollars you have to spend. Hope this is helpful. 73, Dick WC1M > -----Original Message----- > From: Wes Stewart [mailto:[hidden email]] > Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2012 11:59 AM > To: Elecraft; Robert G. Strickland > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 - P3 or LP-PAN comparison > > I use an SDR-IQ on the i-f output of my K3. I use LP-Bridge to share > data between the K3, SpectraVue, DXBase logging and/or N1MM. > > Additionally, with a laptop/SDR-IQ combination I have a nice little > standalone receiver for travel use, although the sensitivity is poor > without something like an active antenna. > > Disclaimer: I once owned an LP-PAN but sold it, I've never owned a P3 > although I played with a preproduction one once. > > Wes Stewart N7WS > > --- On Mon, 7/2/12, Robert G. Strickland <[hidden email]> wrote: > > > > In another post I ask about sub-receiver versus panadapter. Here, a > question about type of panadapter. My station occupies a very small > space, and adding the P3 would strain the real estate. So, I've been > looking at other panadapter possibilities that use the computer screen > for display. What sort of useful comparisons can be made between the P3 > and the LP-Pan box/software? Are there any other panadapter options that > I should consider? Thanks for any and all opinions. > > ...robert > -- > Robert G. Strickland, PhD, ABPH - KE2WY > [hidden email] > Syracuse, New York, USA > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3 - P3 or LP-PAN comparison
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In reply to this post by RobertG
I purchased the sub-Rx for entirely different application:
dual-polarity diversity eme reception using adaptive SDR sw (Linrad): http://www.kl7uw.com/LINRAD.htm I originally bought two filters for the sub-Rx: 2.8 and 13-KHz thinking the 13-KHz filter would permit me to run wideband audio to a soundcard for JT-65 or Spectran waterfall displays. But then I learned the K3 audio output is filtered to about 4-KHz voiding this approach. Thus, I sold my second 13-KHz filter. I currently have just one 2.8-KHz filter in the sub-Rx which is adequate since DSP filtering can reduce this as needed. I should state I do not do HF contesting or DX chasing so need for a good CW filter in the sub-Rx is not required. I have 13-KHz, 2.8-KHz, and 400-Hz filters in the main-Rx. I do have two LP-Pan for connection to both main-RX and sub-Rx IF outputs in order to provide audio IQ signals to my computer via a four port M-Audio Delta44 soundcard. This is how I implement my dual-pol reception system for 2m-eme and accomplish 96-KHz bandspan bandwidth (limit of Delta44 soundcard). For simple bandspan reception I use the LP-Pan and emu-0202 at up to 192-KHz bandwidth on the main-Rx. 73, Ed - KL7UW, WD2XSH/45 ====================================== BP40IQ 500 KHz - 10-GHz www.kl7uw.com EME: 50-1.1kw?, 144-1.4kw, 432-QRT, 1296-?, 3400-? DUBUS Magazine USA Rep [hidden email] "Kits made by KL7UW" http://www.kl7uw.com/kits.htm ====================================== ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by wc1m
If you haven't tried it, play with the FFT samples and averaging a bit more. Also the DSP windowing functions. It should be possible to set the RBW for NaP3 to be the same, higher or lower than P3, and the setting is saved per mode and per band. The FFT settings have changed over time with the various releases of NaP3, so the version you use will matter.
Larry N8LP
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In reply to this post by RobertG
I just discovered an email filter that was trashing responses to my
request for opinions about the P3 and LP-PAN. Thanks to all who replied. Very helpful. ...robert On 7/2/2012 19:01, Robert G. Strickland wrote: > In another post I ask about sub-receiver versus panadapter. Here, a > question about type of panadapter. My station occupies a very small > space, and adding the P3 would strain the real estate. So, I've been > looking at other panadapter possibilities that use the computer screen > for display. What sort of useful comparisons can be made between the P3 > and the LP-Pan box/software? Are there any other panadapter options that > I should consider? Thanks for any and all opinions. > > ...robert > -- Robert G. Strickland, PhD, ABPH - KE2WY [hidden email] Syracuse, New York, USA ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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One very good option is the RF Space SDR-IQ receiver/panadapter. I had
LP-Pan for a year or so and it seemed that software problems had it down more than it ran. So I sold it and bought the SDR-IQ have been well pleased plus another good receiver also. 73, Fred/N0AZZ -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Robert G. Strickland Sent: Saturday, July 07, 2012 9:10 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: [Elecraft] thanks for help w/ P3 and LP-PAN I just discovered an email filter that was trashing responses to my request for opinions about the P3 and LP-PAN. Thanks to all who replied. Very helpful. ...robert On 7/2/2012 19:01, Robert G. Strickland wrote: > In another post I ask about sub-receiver versus panadapter. Here, a > question about type of panadapter. My station occupies a very small > space, and adding the P3 would strain the real estate. So, I've been > looking at other panadapter possibilities that use the computer screen > for display. What sort of useful comparisons can be made between the > P3 and the LP-Pan box/software? Are there any other panadapter options > that I should consider? Thanks for any and all opinions. > > ...robert > -- Robert G. Strickland, PhD, ABPH - KE2WY [hidden email] Syracuse, New York, USA ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2012.0.1913 / Virus Database: 2437/5115 - Release Date: 07/06/12 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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