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K3 PTT RLS

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ni0c

K3 PTT RLS

N6KR wrote:

"If you switch the amp using PTT, you can adjust the delay from end of
RF to PTT release. See the CONFIG:PTT RLS menu entry."

According to the latest manual I have downloaded (Rev. D2), PTT RLS has
"no effect" in the CW mode.

If this has been changed, it is cause for celebration. The lack of detailed
information on a PTT "tail" time similar to that provided by the K1EL WinKey
is the main reason that I use the latter to key my K3 and (non-QSK) amplifier, rather than using the K3's internal keyer.

73,
Chuck NI0C
K2/10 s/n 5853
K3/100 s/n 1061

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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 PTT RLS

Chuck,

I don't recall the exact release timing, RF will always cease *before*
the drop of KEYOUT , so the amp relay should still be engaged when RF
ceases. That is true for both PTT and QSK.
Unless you can create a relay that drops out before its coil voltage is
removed, I cannot ever see a problem here.

73,
Don W3FPR

ni0c wrote:

> N6KR wrote:
>
> "If you switch the amp using PTT, you can adjust the delay from end of
> RF to PTT release. See the CONFIG:PTT RLS menu entry."
>
>
> According to the latest manual I have downloaded (Rev. D2), PTT RLS has
> "no effect" in the CW mode.
>
> If this has been changed, it is cause for celebration. The lack of detailed
> information on a PTT "tail" time similar to that provided by the K1EL WinKey
> is the main reason that I use the latter to key my K3 and (non-QSK) amplifier, rather than using the K3's internal keyer.
>
>

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ni0c

Re: K3 PTT RLS

W3FPR wrote:

> Unless you can create a relay that drops out before its coil voltage is
> removed, I cannot ever see a problem here.
>

Don, the problem (solved by the K1EL PTT
output, with its programmable PTT "lead" and
"tail" times) is excessive relay chatter in non-QSK
CW operations. For example, I have the WinKey
programmed for 20 ms lead and 180 ms tail times,
which provides smooth operation (no amp relay
dropout between words) at the speeds I normally
operate.

I haven't tried keying my amp yet using the K3 PTT
simply because I wasn't aware of a programmable
"tail" time. BTW, I just checked the PTT RLS feature
(I'm using the latest Beta FW, 3.10), but the dial ranges
from 0 to 30 only-- I presume this is in milliseconds.)

73,
Chuck NI0C
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 PTT RLS

Chuck,

OK - I was responding to the original stated concern that RF might still
be present when the amp relay drops (at least that is how I interpreted
the original question) - and that is what will not happen.

As far as not having the amp relay drop out between words at 30 WPM,
that is a different matter. Most QSK operators like to hear between
words (or some even characters), and that would not happen if the amp
relay is still engaged (so they use fast relays or QSK options on the
amp). Semi-QSK is available on the K3 and the delay is adjustable using
the DELAY knob on the front panel (see the manual page 30). Remember
that TEST mode is available and handy for setting the timing - KEYOUT
and everything else works just like real transmit except that no RF is
generated.

So in summary, TX DLY adjusts the leading delay and in semi-QSK the
DELAY knob adjusts the tail. You can have that type operation using the
internal keyer in the K3 and devote the WinKey to use with the computer
based apps.

73,
Don W3FPR

ni0c wrote:

> W3FPR wrote:
>
>
>
>> Unless you can create a relay that drops out before its coil voltage is
>> removed, I cannot ever see a problem here.
>>
>>
>
> Don, the problem (solved by the K1EL PTT
> output, with its programmable PTT "lead" and
> "tail" times) is excessive relay chatter in non-QSK
> CW operations. For example, I have the WinKey
> programmed for 20 ms lead and 180 ms tail times,
> which provides smooth operation (no amp relay
> dropout between words) at the speeds I normally
> operate.
>
> I haven't tried keying my amp yet using the K3 PTT
> simply because I wasn't aware of a programmable
> "tail" time. BTW, I just checked the PTT RLS feature
> (I'm using the latest Beta FW, 3.10), but the dial ranges
> from 0 to 30 only-- I presume this is in milliseconds.)
>
>
> 73,
> Chuck NI0C
>
>

ni0c

Re: K3 PTT RLS

Don, W3FPR referenced page 30 of the K3 manual and wrote:

> So in summary, TX DLY adjusts the leading delay and in semi-QSK the
> DELAY knob adjusts the tail. You can have that type operation using the
> internal keyer in the K3 and devote the WinKey to use with the computer
> based apps.
>

Thanks for that clarification, Don. And I understand the difference between
QSK and non QSK operation, as I was using QSK for CW traffic handling
nearly fifty years ago. :)

However, it has never been clear to me (and still isn't) whether or not the
front
panel DLY function controls the tail of the PTT output signal as well as the
T/R
changeover of the K3 itself. I think the manual could be clearer in this
regard.

73,
Chuck NI0C

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Dave, G4AON

Re: K3 PTT RLS

In reply to this post by ni0c

Chuck (and others), the original purpose of the PTT RLS feature had
nothing to do with keying linear amplifiers. It was included in the
firmware for the purpose of delaying the key-off time to allow audio to
exit the DSP before the transmission drops. This is necessary on modes
such as AMTOR and Pactor, otherwise the last part of the transmission is
missed off. The timing is in milliseconds, the typical setting should be
around 12.

73 Dave, G4AON
K3/100 #80
-----------------

I haven't tried keying my amp yet using the K3 PTT
simply because I wasn't aware of a programmable
"tail" time. BTW, I just checked the PTT RLS feature
(I'm using the latest Beta FW, 3.10), but the dial ranges
from 0 to 30 only-- I presume this is in milliseconds.)

73,
Chuck NI0C
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 PTT RLS

In reply to this post by ni0c

Chuck,

I don't know the answer, but usually PTT used with phone or data does
not present a problem similar to your preferences for semi-break-in CW.

Perhaps someone who has experimented with that aspect and made
measurements can provide the answer.

73,
Don W3FPR

ni0c wrote:

> However, it has never been clear to me (and still isn't) whether or not the
> front
> panel DLY function controls the tail of the PTT output signal as well as the
> T/R
> changeover of the K3 itself. I think the manual could be clearer in this
> regard.
>
> 73,
> Chuck NI0C
>
>
>

N5GE

Re: K3 PTT RLS

In reply to this post by ni0c

On Thu, 16 Apr 2009 10:35:27 -0500, "ni0c" <[hidden email]> wrote:

[snip]
>However, it has never been clear to me (and still isn't) whether or not the
>front
>panel DLY function controls the tail of the PTT output signal as well as the
>T/R
>changeover of the K3 itself. I think the manual could be clearer in this
>regard.
[snip]

I just tested this with the K3 I use for the XVTR's here. I am able
to control the relay drop time of the bricks here by using the semi
break in QSK setting and adjusting the DELAY setting on the front
panel as described on Pg 30 of the latest K3 Manual.

You're right. It could be clearer...

Tom, N5GE
K3 #806, K3 #1055
XV144, XV432
W1 and other small kits.
http://www.n5ge.com

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Amateur Radio Operator N5GE