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K3 Port sharing redux

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Wes Stewart-2

K3 Port sharing redux

In an earlier post I asked for help from the collective wisdom of this group.
In response I received a lot, some via the reflector, some privately. I would
like to thank all for the assistance.

Some of what I learned I'll repeat.

1) WSJT-X can be run using port sharing despite the common wisdom. I found
that Omni-rig was the answer, in my case anyway.

2) LP-Bridge will work, if Omni-rig is used and WSJT-X is "connected" to the
first virtual port.

3) Contrary to popular belief, LP-Bridge was stable. (I've been running it for
years without WSJT)

4) I'm trying the trial version of Win4K3Suite. If com0com is used, it too
works, with one caveat so far.

5) Setting up the ports is a PITA and one secret is to "Save" things that you
think are configured.

6) Looking at com0com ports in Windows Device Manager only the last pair will
show the two comport IDs. The way my brain works this made it appear that the
previously setup pairs were broken; they're not.

7) LP-Bridge will autostart programs flawlessly. It does take longer than
Win4K3 to initiate because it creates the virtual ports at runtime.

8) It seems that Win4K3 will not autostart programs unless they are .exes. The
way I have DXBase installed (recommended) is in the root directory. Windows UAC
will prompt for permission to run the .exe, so I use a Windows task to start the
program. LP-Bridge will execute the task, Win4K3 will not, so I have to start
it manually answering to UAC before Win4K3 will start. If this can be fixed, I
might be inclined to buy the program.

Comments welcome.

Wes N7WS

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K3 Port sharing redux

Very good info to know. Thanks for sharing.

73
Bob, K4TAX

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jun 14, 2019, at 5:58 PM, Wes <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> In an earlier post I asked for help from the collective wisdom of this group. In response I received a lot, some via the reflector, some privately. I would like to thank all for the assistance.
>
> Some of what I learned I'll repeat.
>
> 1) WSJT-X can be run using port sharing despite the common wisdom. I found that Omni-rig was the answer, in my case anyway.
>
> 2) LP-Bridge will work, if Omni-rig is used and WSJT-X is "connected" to the first virtual port.
>
> 3) Contrary to popular belief, LP-Bridge was stable. (I've been running it for years without WSJT)
>
> 4) I'm trying the trial version of Win4K3Suite. If com0com is used, it too works, with one caveat so far.
>
> 5) Setting up the ports is a PITA and one secret is to "Save" things that you think are configured.
>
> 6) Looking at com0com ports in Windows Device Manager only the last pair will show the two comport IDs. The way my brain works this made it appear that the previously setup pairs were broken; they're not.
>
> 7) LP-Bridge will autostart programs flawlessly. It does take longer than Win4K3 to initiate because it creates the virtual ports at runtime.
>
> 8) It seems that Win4K3 will not autostart programs unless they are .exes. The way I have DXBase installed (recommended) is in the root directory. Windows UAC will prompt for permission to run the .exe, so I use a Windows task to start the program. LP-Bridge will execute the task, Win4K3 will not, so I have to start it manually answering to UAC before Win4K3 will start. If this can be fixed, I might be inclined to buy the program.
>
> Comments welcome.
>
> Wes N7WS
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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ng7m

Re: K3 Port sharing redux

In reply to this post by Wes Stewart-2

Wes, I think you are pretty well set on the continued use of LP_Bridge.
Keep in mind that Larry hasn't touched / updated LP_Bridge for 3.5 years,
plus it's painful to wait for it to start up the virtual eltima IMHO. You
just do not get true virtual K3 CAT instances with LP_Bridge that support
all the K3 CAT commands etc. Plus with LP_Bridge you can't supply a K3 CAT
read only feed direct to hardware at anything faster than 4800 baud, and
when you do that, the hardware must be set to Kenwood protocol IMHO, again
the hardware won't see the full K3 CAT command set.

There is no reason to use Omni-rig with Win4K3Suite. Again, the beauty to
true virual K3 CAT feeds. The software and hardware thinks it's connected
direct to your K3/S. No more fooling around with another abstraction layer
and required support by the hardware you are using.

com0com port setup couldn't be easier when you use the com0com graphical
setup program. No need to look at the device manager at all. And the port
pairs are created at boot time without a laborious wait for Eltima drivers
to load like LP-Bridge. The control you get with com0com and Win4K3Suite
is much more robust and powerful than LP-Bridge. Hands down... as I said
before... LP-Bridge isn't in the same ball park, and I also ran LP-Bridge
for years, but I would never go back at this point. However, you can tell
I'm a Win4K3Suite fan boy. :) Did you watch my video?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbf7BPfcj4U

You are really limiting yourself with LP-Bridge, especially if you use
Omni-rig too? No reason for that even with WSJT etc. You just don't need
any of that abstraction layer API nonsense with Win4K3Suite.

As far as the auto launch question, you should join and post int he
Win4K3Suite Groups.io group. Personally, I don't use any auto launch
because with Win4K3Suite, once it's started and it does start up fast
unlike LP-Bridge (talk about a PITA), you can then just launch the software
you want to use for the type of operating you are doing. I start
Win4K3Suite and Launch N1MM if I'm going to contest, or DXLap for general
operating and WSJT for FT-8, or run them all at the same time. You can see
this in the video <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbf7BPfcj4U>. By the
time LP-Bridge finally starts and creates the virtual ports, you could have
everything running twice with Win4K3Suite.

As far as the UAC prompt, are you saying that LP-Bridge launches your app
without sowing the UAC prompt to run the software as an administrator? Are
you starting LP-Bridge as an admin in this case? Try running Win4K3Sute as
an admin and launch your apps?

Anyway, my two cents... I'm a Win4KSuite fan so its clear I'm very bias at
this point, big time and I like the ongoing updates and full support of the
K3 full CAT command set.

Good luck, I really think you are making it harder than it needs to be
where you are trying to use Omni-rig and LP-Bridge and mixing a semi
virtual K3 CAT via LP-Bridge and then using UDP broadcasts with Omni-Rig
and or a direct Omni-rig connect to a virual port in LP-Bridge? You could
do the same thing with Win4K3Sute, but there is no need to introduce
Omni-Rig for WSJT, just connect WSJT to a virtual K3 CAT feed from
Win4K3Suite or LP-Bridge for that matter.

I could go on and on... you are very limited with LP-Bridge... where with
Win4K3Suite, you can setup 6 Virtual K3 CAT feeds... using software and or
hardware and whatever baud radio you want and you can control if they are
read/write polling or not K3 CAT feeds. It's the best $50-$60 software I
have bought for my station needs. But then again, LP-Bridge is free. It
comes down to good, fast and cheap.... you can only ever have two of those
three options and sacrifice the third one. :)

Max NG7M

--
M. George
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Wes Stewart-2

Re: K3 Port sharing redux

Max,

I'm not necessarily set on using LP-Bridge, although it is suiting my needs. As
to its age, my logging program hasn't been updated in 12 years and it still
works fine. I don't have a problem with the start up time, generally, the
computer is on all of the time and my programs are all loaded. I don't really
care about CAT commands as long as 1) my logging program can read the K3
frequency and mode, 2) SpectraVue can communicate with the K3 and vice versa,
3) a couple of other programs can do the same.

I never said I was using Omni-rig with Win4K3, that I found necessary to run FT8
using LPB at someone's suggestion.

I find it a bit humorous to have you tell me that I didn't need to look at
Device Manager since I got the idea by watching your video @29:30 (Yes, I did
watch it and it was helpful).

I launch DXBase using a Windows task to avoid the UAC prompt. I have a desktop
shortcut that points to that task. I can run that script in LPB to autostart
DXBase but AFAIK it won't autostart in Win4K3.

Wes

On 6/15/2019 3:27 PM, M. George wrote:

> Wes, I think you are pretty well set on the continued use of LP_Bridge.
> Keep in mind that Larry hasn't touched / updated LP_Bridge for 3.5 years,
> plus it's painful to wait for it to start up the virtual eltima IMHO. You
> just do not get true virtual K3 CAT instances with LP_Bridge that support
> all the K3 CAT commands etc. Plus with LP_Bridge you can't supply a K3 CAT
> read only feed direct to hardware at anything faster than 4800 baud, and
> when you do that, the hardware must be set to Kenwood protocol IMHO, again
> the hardware won't see the full K3 CAT command set.
>
> There is no reason to use Omni-rig with Win4K3Suite. Again, the beauty to
> true virual K3 CAT feeds. The software and hardware thinks it's connected
> direct to your K3/S. No more fooling around with another abstraction layer
> and required support by the hardware you are using.
>
> com0com port setup couldn't be easier when you use the com0com graphical
> setup program. No need to look at the device manager at all. And the port
> pairs are created at boot time without a laborious wait for Eltima drivers
> to load like LP-Bridge. The control you get with com0com and Win4K3Suite
> is much more robust and powerful than LP-Bridge. Hands down... as I said
> before... LP-Bridge isn't in the same ball park, and I also ran LP-Bridge
> for years, but I would never go back at this point. However, you can tell
> I'm a Win4K3Suite fan boy. :) Did you watch my video?
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbf7BPfcj4U
>
> You are really limiting yourself with LP-Bridge, especially if you use
> Omni-rig too? No reason for that even with WSJT etc. You just don't need
> any of that abstraction layer API nonsense with Win4K3Suite.
>
> As far as the auto launch question, you should join and post int he
> Win4K3Suite Groups.io group. Personally, I don't use any auto launch
> because with Win4K3Suite, once it's started and it does start up fast
> unlike LP-Bridge (talk about a PITA), you can then just launch the software
> you want to use for the type of operating you are doing. I start
> Win4K3Suite and Launch N1MM if I'm going to contest, or DXLap for general
> operating and WSJT for FT-8, or run them all at the same time. You can see
> this in the video <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zbf7BPfcj4U>. By the
> time LP-Bridge finally starts and creates the virtual ports, you could have
> everything running twice with Win4K3Suite.
>
> As far as the UAC prompt, are you saying that LP-Bridge launches your app
> without sowing the UAC prompt to run the software as an administrator? Are
> you starting LP-Bridge as an admin in this case? Try running Win4K3Sute as
> an admin and launch your apps?
>
> Anyway, my two cents... I'm a Win4KSuite fan so its clear I'm very bias at
> this point, big time and I like the ongoing updates and full support of the
> K3 full CAT command set.
>
> Good luck, I really think you are making it harder than it needs to be
> where you are trying to use Omni-rig and LP-Bridge and mixing a semi
> virtual K3 CAT via LP-Bridge and then using UDP broadcasts with Omni-Rig
> and or a direct Omni-rig connect to a virual port in LP-Bridge? You could
> do the same thing with Win4K3Sute, but there is no need to introduce
> Omni-Rig for WSJT, just connect WSJT to a virtual K3 CAT feed from
> Win4K3Suite or LP-Bridge for that matter.
>
> I could go on and on... you are very limited with LP-Bridge... where with
> Win4K3Suite, you can setup 6 Virtual K3 CAT feeds... using software and or
> hardware and whatever baud radio you want and you can control if they are
> read/write polling or not K3 CAT feeds. It's the best $50-$60 software I
> have bought for my station needs. But then again, LP-Bridge is free. It
> comes down to good, fast and cheap.... you can only ever have two of those
> three options and sacrifice the third one. :)
>
> Max NG7M
>
>

ng7m

Re: K3 Port sharing redux

In reply to this post by Wes Stewart-2

Wes, maybe I read your email wrong, but you implied that setting up
the com0com pairs was a PITA. You used the acronym PITA and I assumed
you were talking about com0com. That's why I commented that you
actually do not need to look at the device manager because it appears
that confused you. Like anything, it isn't a PITA after you understand
how it works. I showed that in the video because it would be a natural
question for guys to look at. But again, you do not need to look at
the device manager unless you are curious. I find it humorous you are
using a 12 year old logging program that is no longer supported. ;)
wink, wink. Wow. :) DXBase must really be something special. ;) I
doubt I'll be switching to DXBase any time soon.

You said you were using Omni-rig with WSJT... there is no reason for
that with Win4K3Suite. You could probably use LP-Bridge too and avoid
using Omni-Rig. You could if you needed to (use Omni-Rig with
Win4K3Suite) but I see no reason for it unless you like to complicate
your setup... that's what I said in my previous email. The mis-mash of
LP-Bridge and Omni-Rig etc... gets ugly. And if you were using NaP3
with LP-Bridge you would see the instability issues much more often...
the dreaded red X in the NaP3 screen. But again, it doesn't sound
like you are doing that. You are using SpectraVue?? and I'm not
familiar with that, but if it directly supports the K3 CAT feed
connection you could simply setup a virtual com0com pair there and
SpectraVue would think it was directly connected to the K3.

If you leave your computer running all the time, I'm not sure why the
UAC and or start up of software is a concern either. That seemed like
a big deal for some reason in your email I replied to.

If auto start of DXBase from Win4K3Suite is a show stopper, you better
stick with LP-Bridge, but I see no reason why you couldn't setup a
batch file for that and have Win4K3Suite start up the batch file that
runs DXBase. You can see that when you select an auto start program,
.bat is one of the options.

Anyway, good luck... if you want to keep this discussion going, I
would suggest we take it off the list here and send direct email. You
asked for input on sharing the K3 CAT feed and if you wanted my
opinion on Win4K3Suite you certainly got it... :) I won't be replying
on the elecraft list again related to our discussion. Send me an
email direct.

Max NG7M

Max,

I'm not necessarily set on using LP-Bridge, although it is suiting my
needs. As
to its age, my logging program hasn't been updated in 12 years and it still
works fine. I don't have a problem with the start up time, generally, the
computer is on all of the time and my programs are all loaded. I don't really
care about CAT commands as long as 1) my logging program can read the K3
frequency and mode, 2) SpectraVue can communicate with the K3 and vice versa,
3) a couple of other programs can do the same.

I never said I was using Omni-rig with Win4K3, that I found necessary
to run FT8
using LPB at someone's suggestion.

I find it a bit humorous to have you tell me that I didn't need to look at
Device Manager since I got the idea by watching your video @29:30 (Yes, I did
watch it and it was helpful).

I launch DXBase using a Windows task to avoid the UAC prompt. I have a desktop
shortcut that points to that task. I can run that script in LPB to autostart
DXBase but AFAIK it won't autostart in Win4K3.

Wes

--
M. George
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Ed Pflueger

Re: K3 Port sharing redux

Running DXBase from within Win4K3Suite using windows 7 or 10 Pro has never
been a problem. It fires up just like any other logging problem I have.
Speaking of DXBase I have used it since 1988 or so and really can't find
anything better. Sorry to say it will never see any additional improvement
and trying to find anything comparable has been an issue for me. This
really sounds stupid but I'm running three of the major logging programs
along with Dxbase trying to find a substitute and narrowing it down to
several. By the way I'm doing it with Win4K3 suite and com0com with no
issues. I have ordered a K4HD and hope that Tom VA2FSQ can provide a
program for that rig since it works so well.

Ed.. AB4IQ

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of M. George
Sent: Sunday, June 16, 2019 12:50 AM
To: Elecraft Mailer <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Port sharing redux

Wes, maybe I read your email wrong, but you implied that setting up the
com0com pairs was a PITA. You used the acronym PITA and I assumed you were
talking about com0com. That's why I commented that you actually do not need
to look at the device manager because it appears that confused you. Like
anything, it isn't a PITA after you understand how it works. I showed that
in the video because it would be a natural question for guys to look at.
But again, you do not need to look at the device manager unless you are
curious. I find it humorous you are using a 12 year old logging program
that is no longer supported. ;) wink, wink. Wow. :) DXBase must really be
something special. ;) I doubt I'll be switching to DXBase any time soon.

You said you were using Omni-rig with WSJT... there is no reason for that
with Win4K3Suite. You could probably use LP-Bridge too and avoid using
Omni-Rig. You could if you needed to (use Omni-Rig with
Win4K3Suite) but I see no reason for it unless you like to complicate your
setup... that's what I said in my previous email. The mis-mash of LP-Bridge
and Omni-Rig etc... gets ugly. And if you were using NaP3 with LP-Bridge
you would see the instability issues much more often...
the dreaded red X in the NaP3 screen. But again, it doesn't sound like you
are doing that. You are using SpectraVue?? and I'm not familiar with that,
but if it directly supports the K3 CAT feed connection you could simply
setup a virtual com0com pair there and SpectraVue would think it was
directly connected to the K3.

If you leave your computer running all the time, I'm not sure why the UAC
and or start up of software is a concern either. That seemed like a big
deal for some reason in your email I replied to.

If auto start of DXBase from Win4K3Suite is a show stopper, you better stick
with LP-Bridge, but I see no reason why you couldn't setup a batch file for
that and have Win4K3Suite start up the batch file that runs DXBase. You can
see that when you select an auto start program, .bat is one of the options.

Anyway, good luck... if you want to keep this discussion going, I would
suggest we take it off the list here and send direct email. You asked for
input on sharing the K3 CAT feed and if you wanted my opinion on Win4K3Suite
you certainly got it... :) I won't be replying on the elecraft list again
related to our discussion. Send me an email direct.

Max NG7M

Max,

I'm not necessarily set on using LP-Bridge, although it is suiting my needs.
As to its age, my logging program hasn't been updated in 12 years and it
still works fine. I don't have a problem with the start up time, generally,
the computer is on all of the time and my programs are all loaded. I don't
really care about CAT commands as long as 1) my logging program can read the
K3 frequency and mode, 2) SpectraVue can communicate with the K3 and vice
versa,
3) a couple of other programs can do the same.

I never said I was using Omni-rig with Win4K3, that I found necessary to run
FT8 using LPB at someone's suggestion.

I find it a bit humorous to have you tell me that I didn't need to look at
Device Manager since I got the idea by watching your video @29:30 (Yes, I
did watch it and it was helpful).

I launch DXBase using a Windows task to avoid the UAC prompt. I have a
desktop shortcut that points to that task. I can run that script in LPB to
autostart DXBase but AFAIK it won't autostart in Win4K3.

Wes

--
M. George
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Wes Stewart-2

Re: K3 Port sharing redux

I have found no substitute for DXBase either. I have tried them all but stick
with it. The problem with most software IMHO, of course, is that it's written
by software people rather than regular human beings.

I put myself on the list for a K4, but I'll be pushing 79 years of age before
there will be a bug-free version. If I want a new toy, which I'm thinking I do,
I might buy a brand K.

Wes N7WS

On 6/16/2019 4:50 AM, AB4IQ wrote:

> Running DXBase from within Win4K3Suite using windows 7 or 10 Pro has never
> been a problem. It fires up just like any other logging problem I have.
> Speaking of DXBase I have used it since 1988 or so and really can't find
> anything better. Sorry to say it will never see any additional improvement
> and trying to find anything comparable has been an issue for me. This
> really sounds stupid but I'm running three of the major logging programs
> along with Dxbase trying to find a substitute and narrowing it down to
> several. By the way I'm doing it with Win4K3 suite and com0com with no
> issues. I have ordered a K4HD and hope that Tom VA2FSQ can provide a
> program for that rig since it works so well.
>
> Ed.. AB4IQ