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K3 Power Output

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GW4IMC

K3 Power Output

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Bill Maddock-2

Re: K3 Power Output

Trev,

Sounds like a typical K3, both of mine will react very similar especially if I change bands. I will typically hit the tune button
and adjust my power if necessary. Now perhaps if I went through
the transmitter calibration it would go away! I still need to
do all the mods on my first K3 sn# 1059. Nonetheless I am curious
for a response on this one

73 de Bill N4ZI K3's #1059 & #2914

--- On Tue, 9/1/09, trev <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: trev <[hidden email]>
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Tuesday, September 1, 2009, 5:33 PM
>
> It's been a long time since I made a post to this group so
> hope someone can
> help.
> My K3/100 which has all the latest firmware installed
> behaves oddly. When
> the TX is keyed with
> the mic the power out only goes to approx 30watts although
> it is set to
> 100watts. Then it seems
> to slowly build when the mic is keyed a few times. Maybe I
> am missing
> something or have a parameter set wrong in a menu.
> I would appreciate any thoughts or ideas. Thanks in
> advance.
> Trev GW4IMC
> --
> View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Power-Output-tp3563445p3563445.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
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>

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Eric Swartz - WA6HHQ

Re: K3 Power Output

Administrator

All bets are off if you have not performed the K3 TX calibration. That
is a required step after building the K3.

73,Eric WA6HHQ

Bill Maddock wrote:

> Trev,
>
> Sounds like a typical K3, both of mine will react very similar especially if I change bands. I will typically hit the tune button
> and adjust my power if necessary. Now perhaps if I went through
> the transmitter calibration it would go away! I still need to
> do all the mods on my first K3 sn# 1059. Nonetheless I am curious
> for a response on this one
>
> 73 de Bill N4ZI K3's #1059 & #2914
>
>

hb9ari@bluewin.ch

Re: K3 Power Output

In reply to this post by GW4IMC

Hi Trev,

Since the beginning, i always get the same behavior
with my K3 #1212 (factory build). I work
essentially with JT65A mode; as this mode
is a single tone mode, i've set the modulation
level just before full ALC and power to 50W
(for DX only...). At the beginning of a
JT65A transmit sequence, the power start
at ~ 25W and go up to ~ 48W in 3 to 5 sec.
If the PA temperature is at ~ 40 to 46°C,
the power variation is lower and power
output start at ~40W; i'm certainly
wrong, but i've always thought that this
was related to PA temp and, as i never get
an output power higher then selected,
this was not a problem in my case.

What is a problem for me is the transmit
audio response; i've tried to adjust XTAL filter
without success; TX EQU compensation
too. As my VFO working frequency
is always set to the JT65A "preferred"
frequency, it's the audio frequency who
defines the actual output spectrum;
for some audio values, i get well over 3dB
output power variations between some
JT65A instantaneous frequencies; for example,
with a 45W max power, for somes frequencies,
level go under 20W; i work with this since more
then one year and i'm always hoping that
the AGC of my correspondent can handle
a "little" ~3dB RF input variation (the QSB
is generally higher...)

Sorry for this time and bandwidth consuming
message.

73 QRO de Rudolf, hb9ari

trev wrote:

> It's been a long time since I made a post to this group so hope someone can
> help.
> My K3/100 which has all the latest firmware installed behaves oddly. When
> the TX is keyed with
> the mic the power out only goes to approx 30watts although it is set to
> 100watts. Then it seems
> to slowly build when the mic is keyed a few times. Maybe I am missing
> something or have a parameter set wrong in a menu.
> I would appreciate any thoughts or ideas. Thanks in advance.
> Trev GW4IMC
>

dj7mgq

Region 1 SSB Field Day

Hi,

this weekend from Saturday 13.00 UTC to Sunday 12.59 UTC is the Region
1 SSB Field Day. So keep your ears open for puny signals coming from
our side of the pond! This year our local club will be running Field
Day stations at three different QTHs simultaneously.

For more information see the following links:

German rules (in English):
<http://www.darc.de/referate/dx/xedcfr.htm>

German FD Stations & QTHs:
<http://www.dxhf.darc.de/~fdssblog/map.php>

South African rules:
<http://www.sarl.org.za/public/contests/IARU%20Region%201%20HF%20Field%20Day.pdf>

British Rules:
<http://www.vhfcc.org/hfcc/rules/2009/rssbfd.shtml>

Please work as many portable stations in region 1 as possible. Thank you!

vy 73 de toby

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hb9brj

Re: K3 Power Output

In reply to this post by hb9ari@bluewin.ch

hb9ari wrote

I work essentially with JT65A mode; as this mode
is a single tone mode, i've set the modulation
level just before full ALC and power to 50W
(for DX only...). At the beginning of a
JT65A transmit sequence, the power start
at ~ 25W and go up to ~ 48W in 3 to 5 sec.

I'm active in WSPR mode, which is a single tone as well.
Mode = "DATA A", ALC = 4 bars, PWR = 5W.
An external wattmeter shows an absolutely steady power throughout the entire 2-minute TX cycle.
The bottom cover just underneath the LPA gets pretty hot, but at 5W the KPA3 is bypassed.
Will run a test at higher power to see whether or not it makes a difference.

73, Markus HB9BRJ

Julian, G4ILO

Re: K3 Power Output

In reply to this post by hb9ari@bluewin.ch

hb9ari wrote

Hi Trev,

Since the beginning, i always get the same behavior
with my K3 #1212 (factory build). I work
essentially with JT65A mode; as this mode
is a single tone mode, i've set the modulation
level just before full ALC and power to 50W
(for DX only...). At the beginning of a
JT65A transmit sequence, the power start
at ~ 25W and go up to ~ 48W in 3 to 5 sec.
If the PA temperature is at ~ 40 to 46°C,
the power variation is lower and power
output start at ~40W; i'm certainly
wrong, but i've always thought that this
was related to PA temp and, as i never get
an output power higher then selected,
this was not a problem in my case.

What is a problem for me is the transmit
audio response; i've tried to adjust XTAL filter
without success; TX EQU compensation
too. As my VFO working frequency
is always set to the JT65A "preferred"
frequency, it's the audio frequency who
defines the actual output spectrum;
for some audio values, i get well over 3dB
output power variations between some
JT65A instantaneous frequencies; for example,
with a 45W max power, for somes frequencies,
level go under 20W; i work with this since more
then one year and i'm always hoping that
the AGC of my correspondent can handle
a "little" ~3dB RF input variation (the QSB
is generally higher...)

Sorry for this time and bandwidth consuming
message.

73 QRO de Rudolf, hb9ari

Are you not using DATA A for this, Rudolph? If so, you can set the audio drive for a steady 4 bars in the "ALC" scale and the K3 will adjust the power for the value selected across the whole range of the audio spectrum (that you might reasonably want to use.)

It didn't always work like this, but it has for many months now. Using PSK31 I can click on a signal anywhere from about 300Hz to 2700Hz, call them and get exactly the power requested (within reason, of course.)

Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

Julian, G4ILO

Re: K3 Power Output

In reply to this post by hb9brj

hb9brj wrote

I'm active in WSPR mode, which is a single tone as well.
Mode = "DATA A", ALC = 4 bars, PWR = 5W.
An external wattmeter shows an absolutely steady power throughout the entire 2-minute TX cycle.
The bottom cover just underneath the LPA gets pretty hot, but at 5W the KPA3 is bypassed.
Will run a test at higher power to see whether or not it makes a difference.

It would be nice to have the option to leave the KPA3 in at low power. I avoid using QRP for high duty cycle modes because I'm afraid it stresses the radio more than using 12W does.

Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
* KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
* KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html

Alexandr Kobranov

Re: K3 Power Output

In reply to this post by hb9brj

Hi Markus,
you prabably know but maybe good for the others trying WSJT/WSPR:
You can try very simply power levels per tone by using WSJT menu Setup
- Generate messages for test tones.
Then you have @A - @D and @1000 and @2000 in TX1 - TX6 windows
You can test each tone separately and try to adjust level of TX EQ to
obtain the best distribution.
Yes, there are differencies, very big sometimes.
Maybe later when TX EQ will be -per mode- saved and (if any chance)
user selected frq of setting point possible there will be better game
with it.

Good luck,
73!
Lexa, ok1dst
K3/10 #727

hb9brj napsal(a):

>
> hb9ari wrote:
>> I work essentially with JT65A mode; as this mode
>> is a single tone mode, i've set the modulation
>> level just before full ALC and power to 50W
>> (for DX only...). At the beginning of a
>> JT65A transmit sequence, the power start
>> at ~ 25W and go up to ~ 48W in 3 to 5 sec.
>>
>
> I'm active in WSPR mode, which is a single tone as well.
> Mode = "DATA A", ALC = 4 bars, PWR = 5W.
> An external wattmeter shows an absolutely steady power throughout the entire
> 2-minute TX cycle.
> The bottom cover just underneath the LPA gets pretty hot, but at 5W the KPA3
> is bypassed.
> Will run a test at higher power to see whether or not it makes a difference.
>
> 73, Markus HB9BRJ

hb9ari@bluewin.ch

Re: K3 Power Output

In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO

Hi Julian,

I don't remember the reason(...) but i work
in USB mode. I will try to work in DATA A
mode this week-end and at the same time,
recover the reason for the USB mode choice!
(i read that somewhere!)

For the ALC, i set the level just before the
end of "variation" (if i'm correct, as i'm not
in my shack, it should be 4 steady bars and
the 5th flashing?)
ele
Thank you for the info.

73 QRO de Rudolf, HB9ARI

Julian, G4ILO wrote:

>
> hb9ari wrote:
>
>> Hi Trev,
>>
>> Since the beginning, i always get the same behavior
>> with my K3 #1212 (factory build). I work
>> essentially with JT65A mode; as this mode
>> is a single tone mode, i've set the modulation
>> level just before full ALC and power to 50W
>> (for DX only...). At the beginning of a
>> JT65A transmit sequence, the power start
>> at ~ 25W and go up to ~ 48W in 3 to 5 sec.
>> If the PA temperature is at ~ 40 to 46°C,
>> the power variation is lower and power
>> output start at ~40W; i'm certainly
>> wrong, but i've always thought that this
>> was related to PA temp and, as i never get
>> an output power higher then selected,
>> this was not a problem in my case.
>>
>> What is a problem for me is the transmit
>> audio response; i've tried to adjust XTAL filter
>> without success; TX EQU compensation
>> too. As my VFO working frequency
>> is always set to the JT65A "preferred"
>> frequency, it's the audio frequency who
>> defines the actual output spectrum;
>> for some audio values, i get well over 3dB
>> output power variations between some
>> JT65A instantaneous frequencies; for example,
>> with a 45W max power, for somes frequencies,
>> level go under 20W; i work with this since more
>> then one year and i'm always hoping that
>> the AGC of my correspondent can handle
>> a "little" ~3dB RF input variation (the QSB
>> is generally higher...)
>>
>> Sorry for this time and bandwidth consuming
>> message.
>>
>> 73 QRO de Rudolf, hb9ari
>>
>>
>>
>
> Are you not using DATA A for this, Rudolph? If so, you can set the audio
> drive for a steady 4 bars in the "ALC" scale and the K3 will adjust the
> power for the value selected across the whole range of the audio spectrum
> (that you might reasonably want to use.)
>
> It didn't always work like this, but it has for many months now. Using PSK31
> I can click on a signal anywhere from about 300Hz to 2700Hz, call them and
> get exactly the power requested (within reason, of course.)
>
> -----
> Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222.
> * G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com
> * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html
> * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html
>
>

hb9ari@bluewin.ch

Re: K3 Power Output

In reply to this post by Alexandr Kobranov

Hi Lexa,

Very good info, i will do some tests this week-end.

At the same time, a verification of the audio level
response (WSJT/Sound card) should be a good precaution...

73 QRO de Rudolf, HB9ARI

Alexandr Kobranov wrote:

> Hi Markus,
> you prabably know but maybe good for the others trying WSJT/WSPR:
> You can try very simply power levels per tone by using WSJT menu Setup
> - Generate messages for test tones.
> Then you have @A - @D and @1000 and @2000 in TX1 - TX6 windows
> You can test each tone separately and try to adjust level of TX EQ to
> obtain the best distribution.
> Yes, there are differencies, very big sometimes.
> Maybe later when TX EQ will be -per mode- saved and (if any chance)
> user selected frq of setting point possible there will be better game
> with it.
>
> Good luck,
> 73!
> Lexa, ok1dst
> K3/10 #727
>
>
>
> hb9brj napsal(a):
>
>> hb9ari wrote:
>>
>>> I work essentially with JT65A mode; as this mode
>>> is a single tone mode, i've set the modulation
>>> level just before full ALC and power to 50W
>>> (for DX only...). At the beginning of a
>>> JT65A transmit sequence, the power start
>>> at ~ 25W and go up to ~ 48W in 3 to 5 sec.
>>>
>>>
>> I'm active in WSPR mode, which is a single tone as well.
>> Mode = "DATA A", ALC = 4 bars, PWR = 5W.
>> An external wattmeter shows an absolutely steady power throughout the entire
>> 2-minute TX cycle.
>> The bottom cover just underneath the LPA gets pretty hot, but at 5W the KPA3
>> is bypassed.
>> Will run a test at higher power to see whether or not it makes a difference.
>>
>> 73, Markus HB9BRJ
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

hb9brj

Re: K3 Power Output

In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO

Julian, G4ILO wrote

It would be nice to have the option to leave the KPA3 in at low power. I avoid using QRP for high duty cycle modes because I'm afraid it stresses the radio more than using 12W does.

Julian, you can force the KPA3 to stay on by means of a workaround:
Set PWR = 15W, then define actual TX power using MIC gain.

73, Markus HB9BRJ

hb9ari@bluewin.ch

Re: K3 Power Output

In reply to this post by hb9ari@bluewin.ch

Ok! It's in the "to do" list!

73,
Rudolf

Alexandr Kobranov wrote:

> Absolutely!
> One thing is to have uniformity of power out (this is what we need as
> a final), the other is to know levels of AF out per tone from the
> sound card and then characteristic of the rest of line.
>
> Let me know your results, my setting was very fast and without any
> remarks so no table of tone/af level/power out level per WSJTx mode
> done yet. Will try in some spare time and we can compare :-)
>
> 73!
> L. -dst-
>
> hb9ari napsal(a):
>> Hi Lexa,
>>
>> Very good info, i will do some tests this week-end.
>>
>> At the same time, a verification of the audio level
>> response (WSJT/Sound card) should be a good precaution...
>>
>> 73 QRO de Rudolf, HB9ARI
>>
>> Alexandr Kobranov wrote:
>>> Hi Markus,
>>> you prabably know but maybe good for the others trying WSJT/WSPR:
>>> You can try very simply power levels per tone by using WSJT menu
>>> Setup - Generate messages for test tones.
>>> Then you have @A - @D and @1000 and @2000 in TX1 - TX6 windows
>>> You can test each tone separately and try to adjust level of TX EQ
>>> to obtain the best distribution.
>>> Yes, there are differencies, very big sometimes.
>>> Maybe later when TX EQ will be -per mode- saved and (if any chance)
>>> user selected frq of setting point possible there will be better
>>> game with it.
>>>
>>> Good luck,
>>> 73!
>>> Lexa, ok1dst
>>> K3/10 #727
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> hb9brj napsal(a):
>>>
>>>> hb9ari wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I work essentially with JT65A mode; as this mode
>>>>> is a single tone mode, i've set the modulation
>>>>> level just before full ALC and power to 50W
>>>>> (for DX only...). At the beginning of a
>>>>> JT65A transmit sequence, the power start
>>>>> at ~ 25W and go up to ~ 48W in 3 to 5 sec.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>> I'm active in WSPR mode, which is a single tone as well.
>>>> Mode = "DATA A", ALC = 4 bars, PWR = 5W.
>>>> An external wattmeter shows an absolutely steady power throughout
>>>> the entire
>>>> 2-minute TX cycle.
>>>> The bottom cover just underneath the LPA gets pretty hot, but at 5W
>>>> the KPA3
>>>> is bypassed.
>>>> Will run a test at higher power to see whether or not it makes a
>>>> difference.
>>>>
>>>> 73, Markus HB9BRJ
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>>> Elecraft mailing list
>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>>
>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>

hb9ari@bluewin.ch

Re: K3 Power Output

In reply to this post by GW4IMC

Trev,

You're Welcome!

As written, i've also to work on the "problem"...

73,
Rudolf

TREVOR WATERS wrote:

> Rudolf,
> Many thanks for the reply to my post. Still working on the problem here.
> Many thanks for your thoughts
> Gud DX Best 73
> Trev GW4IMC
>
> --- On *Wed, 2/9/09, hb9ari /<[hidden email]>/* wrote:
>
>
> From: hb9ari <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Output
> To: "trev" <[hidden email]>
> Date: Wednesday, 2 September, 2009, 7:54 AM
>
> Trev,
> Sorry, but i've replied to your private address!
> 73,
> Rudolf
>
> trev wrote:
> > It's been a long time since I made a post to this group so hope
> someone can
> > help.
> > My K3/100 which has all the latest firmware installed behaves
> oddly. When
> > the TX is keyed with
> > the mic the power out only goes to approx 30watts although it is
> set to
> > 100watts. Then it seems
> > to slowly build when the mic is keyed a few times. Maybe I am
> missing
> > something or have a parameter set wrong in a menu. I would
> appreciate any thoughts or ideas. Thanks in advance.
> > Trev GW4IMC
>

KK7P

Re: K3 Power Output

In reply to this post by hb9brj

>
>> ...you can force the KPA3 to stay on by means of a workaround:
>> Set PWR = 15W, then define actual TX power using MIC gain.
>>

This will most likely result in the radio's long term ALC gradually
increasing gain in the transmit path until it either (a) runs out of
gain or (b) hits it internal limits.

Not recommended.

73,

Lyle KK7P

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Kjeld Holm

K3 Operator Error

In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO

Dear all,

Problem:
Low output on RTTY and PSK31 on 80 meters using the mode DATA-R and output
from sound card.

Situation:
Starting on 15 meters running RTTY or PSK31 with an output of about 85 W.
Using Ham Radio Deluxe switching to 80 meters, also switching antenna.
The output falls down to about 40 W.

Changing to CW (still 80 meters, same antenna) I get 85 W again like on 15
meters.

Which settting have I overlooked that brings my output down?

Vy 73
OZ1CCM Kjeld

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