K3 Power Problem ??
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Hi Folks, When doing RTTY at 100 watts a high current warning flashes in the VFO B display area and RF power is automatically cut back to about 60 watts. SWR is about 1.1:1 or there abouts; nothing approaching 1.5:1. I have found there is 0.6 volts drop in the Elecraft supplied power cable (Power Poles are soldered) and about 0.2 volt drop between my power supply and the output of the Rigrunner. It's between the power supply and the K3. Voltage at the radio drops to 13.2 vdc and current is 23-24 amps on transmit. Under that load the voltage at the power supply drops 0.01 volts. I run the power supply (it's variable) at 14.0 volts at the supply. It's a 40 amp power supply. I have a popular off shore rig that has no problem with the existing power setup. In reading the Supply/Voltage Current specifications on page eight (8) of the Owners Manual I find it recommends "When using reduced supply voltage (<12volts), power output should be reduced (e.g. 70 W at 11 V). Further, "For best results, use the supplied 5 foot (1.3 m) power cable." Those two statements appear to be in error when applied to my radio. My K3 appears to be overly sensitive to voltage and current. The only adjustment I can locate that might relate to this is the menu CONFIG:ADC REF entry. However, I seriously doubt it will have any impact on this as this appears to be a serious error and adjust appears to be for fine tuning at best. I certainly would appreciate any ones constructive input on this situation. I could appreciate knowing the gauge of the supplied cable....I'm hoping that doubling or tripling the size might help. But, that seems to be a bandaide rather that eliminating the root cause. Thank, have a good day and 73. Jim, W0EM ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Jim,
23 to 24 amps on transmit? The manual says you should have 17 to 22. At 14v it sure sounds like you're running a lot more than 100w out. How are you measuring the output? W5OV -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim Harris Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:46 PM To: Elecraft Email; Gary Elecraft Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Power Problem ?? Hi Folks, When doing RTTY at 100 watts a high current warning flashes in the VFO B display area and RF power is automatically cut back to about 60 watts. SWR is about 1.1:1 or there abouts; nothing approaching 1.5:1. I have found there is 0.6 volts drop in the Elecraft supplied power cable (Power Poles are soldered) and about 0.2 volt drop between my power supply and the output of the Rigrunner. It's between the power supply and the K3. Voltage at the radio drops to 13.2 vdc and current is 23-24 amps on transmit. Under that load the voltage at the power supply drops 0.01 volts. I run the power supply (it's variable) at 14.0 volts at the supply. It's a 40 amp power supply. I have a popular off shore rig that has no problem with the existing power setup. In reading the Supply/Voltage Current specifications on page eight (8) of the Owners Manual I find it recommends "When using reduced supply voltage (<12volts), power output should be reduced (e.g. 70 W at 11 V). Further, "For best results, use the supplied 5 foot (1.3 m) power cable." Those two statements appear to be in error when applied to my radio. My K3 appears to be overly sensitive to voltage and current. The only adjustment I can locate that might relate to this is the menu CONFIG:ADC REF entry. However, I seriously doubt it will have any impact on this as this appears to be a serious error and adjust appears to be for fine tuning at best. I certainly would appreciate any ones constructive input on this situation. I could appreciate knowing the gauge of the supplied cable....I'm hoping that doubling or tripling the size might help. But, that seems to be a bandaide rather that eliminating the root cause. Thank, have a good day and 73. Jim, W0EM ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Hi, Exactly 100 watts set on K3. Measured about 90 watts out on two external watt meters. One on an MFJ antenna tuner and the other is a high end MFJ power meter. They agree within a couple of watts near 100 watts measured. Have a good day and 73. Jim, W0EM > From: [hidden email] > To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email] > Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 Power Problem ?? > Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 21:51:35 -0600 > > Jim, > > 23 to 24 amps on transmit? The manual says you should have 17 to 22. At 14v > it sure sounds like you're running a lot more than 100w out. > > How are you measuring the output? > > W5OV > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim Harris > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:46 PM > To: Elecraft Email; Gary Elecraft > Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Power Problem ?? > > > Hi Folks, > > When doing RTTY at 100 watts a high current warning flashes in the VFO B > display area and RF power is automatically cut back to about 60 watts. SWR > is about 1.1:1 or there abouts; nothing approaching 1.5:1. I have found > there is 0.6 volts drop in the Elecraft supplied power cable (Power Poles > are soldered) and about 0.2 volt drop between my power supply and the output > of the Rigrunner. It's between the power supply and the K3. Voltage at the > radio drops to 13.2 vdc and current is 23-24 amps on transmit. Under that > load the voltage at the power supply drops 0.01 volts. I run the power > supply (it's variable) at 14.0 volts at the supply. It's a 40 amp power > supply. I have a popular off shore rig that has no problem with the > existing power setup. > > In reading the Supply/Voltage Current specifications on page eight (8) of > the Owners Manual I find it recommends "When using reduced supply voltage > (<12volts), power output should be reduced (e.g. 70 W at 11 V). Further, > "For best results, use the supplied 5 foot (1.3 m) power cable." Those two > statements appear to be in error when applied to my radio. > > My K3 appears to be overly sensitive to voltage and current. The only > adjustment I can locate that might relate to this is the menu CONFIG:ADC REF > entry. However, I seriously doubt it will have any impact on this as this > appears to be a serious error and adjust appears to be for fine tuning at > best. > > I certainly would appreciate any ones constructive input on this situation. > I could appreciate knowing the gauge of the supplied cable....I'm hoping > that doubling or tripling the size might help. But, that seems to be a > bandaide rather that eliminating the root cause. > > Thank, have a good day and 73. > > Jim, W0EM > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Jim,
23 to 24 amps is excessive current to be drawing at 14v and probably means that you are drawing too much. Have you verified that those watt meters are accurate? As some comparison data, running 100 watts out of my K3 into a 1:1.1 SWR it only draws 17.1 amps. 73, Bob W5OV -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim Harris Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 10:41 PM To: [hidden email]; Elecraft Email; Gary Elecraft Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Problem ?? Hi, Exactly 100 watts set on K3. Measured about 90 watts out on two external watt meters. One on an MFJ antenna tuner and the other is a high end MFJ power meter. They agree within a couple of watts near 100 watts measured. Have a good day and 73. Jim, W0EM > From: [hidden email] > To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]; [hidden email] > Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 Power Problem ?? > Date: Fri, 4 Dec 2009 21:51:35 -0600 > > Jim, > > 23 to 24 amps on transmit? The manual says you should have 17 to 22. At 14v > it sure sounds like you're running a lot more than 100w out. > > How are you measuring the output? > > W5OV > > -----Original Message----- > From: [hidden email] > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim Harris > Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 7:46 PM > To: Elecraft Email; Gary Elecraft > Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Power Problem ?? > > > Hi Folks, > > When doing RTTY at 100 watts a high current warning flashes in the VFO B > display area and RF power is automatically cut back to about 60 watts. > is about 1.1:1 or there abouts; nothing approaching 1.5:1. I have found > there is 0.6 volts drop in the Elecraft supplied power cable (Power Poles > are soldered) and about 0.2 volt drop between my power supply and the output > of the Rigrunner. It's between the power supply and the K3. Voltage at the > radio drops to 13.2 vdc and current is 23-24 amps on transmit. Under that > load the voltage at the power supply drops 0.01 volts. I run the power > supply (it's variable) at 14.0 volts at the supply. It's a 40 amp power > supply. I have a popular off shore rig that has no problem with the > existing power setup. > > In reading the Supply/Voltage Current specifications on page eight (8) of > the Owners Manual I find it recommends "When using reduced supply voltage > (<12volts), power output should be reduced (e.g. 70 W at 11 V). Further, > "For best results, use the supplied 5 foot (1.3 m) power cable." Those > statements appear to be in error when applied to my radio. > > My K3 appears to be overly sensitive to voltage and current. The only > adjustment I can locate that might relate to this is the menu CONFIG:ADC REF > entry. However, I seriously doubt it will have any impact on this as this > appears to be a serious error and adjust appears to be for fine tuning at > best. > > I certainly would appreciate any ones constructive input on this situation. > I could appreciate knowing the gauge of the supplied cable....I'm hoping > that doubling or tripling the size might help. But, that seems to be a > bandaide rather that eliminating the root cause. > > Thank, have a good day and 73. > > Jim, W0EM > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Jim HaRRIS
Jim, if you calibrated the K3 Wattmeter with a low reading Wattmeter it
would give the symptoms you describe. The calibration is optional and calls for an accurate Wattmeter, the K3 already comes calibrated from the factory. You might have a fault, K3 Support will be able to assist. I use the supplied cable and obtain good correlation to the expected power at 5 and 50 Watts, but slightly less at 100 Watts. There is a table of the results at: http://www.astromag.co.uk/k3/ I've never had an over current warning. 73 Dave, G4AON K3/100 #80 --------------------- Exactly 100 watts set on K3. Measured about 90 watts out on two external watt meters. One on an MFJ antenna tuner and the other is a high end MFJ power meter. They agree within a couple of watts near 100 watts measured. Have a good day and 73. Jim, W0EM ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Dave,
What current does your radio draw with 100w output? W5OV -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dave G4AON Sent: Saturday, December 05, 2009 2:46 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Power Problem ?? Jim, if you calibrated the K3 Wattmeter with a low reading Wattmeter it would give the symptoms you describe. The calibration is optional and calls for an accurate Wattmeter, the K3 already comes calibrated from the factory. You might have a fault, K3 Support will be able to assist. I use the supplied cable and obtain good correlation to the expected power at 5 and 50 Watts, but slightly less at 100 Watts. There is a table of the results at: http://www.astromag.co.uk/k3/ I've never had an over current warning. 73 Dave, G4AON K3/100 #80 --------------------- Exactly 100 watts set on K3. Measured about 90 watts out on two external watt meters. One on an MFJ antenna tuner and the other is a high end MFJ power meter. They agree within a couple of watts near 100 watts measured. Have a good day and 73. Jim, W0EM ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Dave, G4AON
Dave,
Looks like you have pointed me in the right direction. I had not done the wattmeter calibration as the manual implies that it is optional. That plus the usual inaccuracies in the average wattmeter I decided to accept the factory settings. This morning I did the procedure and thus far have not had a high current warning. Current is 1-2 amps less than before; still a little on the high side but at least no warnings about it. Knock on wood...... For the Elecraft tech writers and anyone attempting to do the procedure there is an error in the procedure. On page 49 of the Owner's Manual the last step on the bottom left should read tap XMIT rather than hold TUNE. If TUNE is used rather than XMIT the radio will output 20 watts regardless of the power set while calibrating. Thanks for the help. 73, Jim, W0EM
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In reply to this post by Jim HaRRIS
100W measured on the following bands gives:
160m, 18.1 A 80m, 17.3A 40m, 22.5A 30m, 21.5A 20m, 20.5A 15m, 19.4A 10m, 17.5A 6m, 21.5A These figures were with 13.5 ~ 13.4 Volts from my power supply as measured on the K3's display (both for Amps and Voltage). Power measurement into a 50 Ohm load with a calibrated LP-100 power meter. 73 Dave, G4AON K3/100 #80 -------------- Dave, What current does your radio draw with 100w output? W5OV ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Dave,
Thank you for taking he time to take the measurements nd pass them along. I said in my previous post that I had calibrated the wattmeter and it seemed to help. Well, it did help some but not enough to completely eliminate high current warnings and subsequent power reductions. In trouble shooting I have found that some interesting things. 1. Going through the tuner part of my antenna tuner adds about three (3) more amps than going direct through the tuner. 2. I have set CONFIG:WMTR to the setting (180) that requires least current regardless of actual external meter indication. If the setting (160) is used that indicates 50 watts on the external meter when 50 is set on the radio, the current is nearly one amp higher. 3. When the radio is room temperature on 20 meters with 100 watts set, the current is 20.25 amps when going directly into two different dummy loads. After about four minutes of 15 seconds on and off the current is 21.6 amps and climbing. 4. When using an antenna with an SWR of higher than 1.2:1, the current warning is always displayed with subsequent power reduction. 5. I have found the current warning threshold is at about 24.5 amps. It seems the high current warning only is displayed during RTTY at 100 watts into less than a perfect antenna while tuning with an external antenna tuner. I've never seen the warning in any other mode. If this is in fact normal then I'm very disappointed with my K3. It sure spoiled my contest effort today. I've previously learned that the S-meter does not respond in the way I would expect. These and 2-3 other issues have left a less than sterling impression of the K3. I'm trying hard to like this radio but my offshore rig doesn't have these kind of issues. Does anyone else on the list have high current warnings when running RTTY at 100 watts? If support is listening I sure would like to hear from you. Jim, W0EM <quote author="Dave G4AON"> 100W measured on the following bands gives: 160m, 18.1 A 80m, 17.3A 40m, 22.5A 30m, 21.5A 20m, 20.5A 15m, 19.4A 10m, 17.5A 6m, 21.5A These figures were with 13.5 ~ 13.4 Volts from my power supply as measured on the K3's display (both for Amps and Voltage). Power measurement into a 50 Ohm load with a calibrated LP-100 power meter. 73 Dave, G4AON K3/100 #80 -------------- |
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