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K3-Problem with DX spot point-&-click and ACLog

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Terry Schieler

K3-Problem with DX spot point-&-click and ACLog

FWIW.

Well I spoke with Scott, N3FJP regarding the problems I had with the K3 and
his ACLog logging program. Although there is a radio selection for Elecraft
in his CAT software he says it does not support the K3. I offered to help
him (which I've done before) but he said he was afraid if he made changes to
ACLog for K3 support it could harm the functionality with other Elecraft
rigs. Matter of fact, he got quite curt with me when I sent him the
Elecraft Programmer's Reference:

W0FM:
" Thanks Scott. Would having the Elecraft K3 Programmer's Reference be of
help? "

N3FJP:
" No, again, "fixing" the K3 may introduce problems for other Elecrafts.

73, Scott
N3FJP"

Looks like I'll be shopping for a new logging program.

Terry, W0FM

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ab2tc

Re: K3-Problem with DX spot point-&-click and ACLog

Hi,

I highly recommend Ham Radio Deluxe. It supports the K3, Simon - the author - is a K3 owner and supporter. Pointing and clicking on a DX spot or on a frequency dial works great. I use it in conjunction with LP-PAN and LP-Bridge. Pointing and clicking on the panadapter display also works flawlessly and instantly. Whenever the K3 adds new remote control features, Simon is there supporting them within days.

AB2TC - Knut

Terry Schieler wrote

Looks like I'll be shopping for a new logging program.

Terry, W0FM

_

Greg - AB7R

Re: K3-Problem with DX spot point-&-click and ACLog

In reply to this post by Terry Schieler

I've noticed that from Scott one before when I made a similar request. I did what
you did.....stopped using it and went to another program. I also no longer recommend
that program to anyone for that reason. I think that's a mistake on his part not to
support the K3. Oh well...

Check out N1MM for contesting. It's free, and it does much more the ACLog. For
general logging, try HRD. It has a nice log and great K3 support.

-------------------------
73,
Greg - AB7R
Whidbey Island WA
NA-065

On Thu Oct 30 8:20 , "Terry Schieler" sent:

>FWIW.
>
>Well I spoke with Scott, N3FJP regarding the problems I had with the K3 and
>his ACLog logging program. Although there is a radio selection for Elecraft
>in his CAT software he says it does not support the K3. I offered to help
>him (which I've done before) but he said he was afraid if he made changes to
>ACLog for K3 support it could harm the functionality with other Elecraft
>rigs. Matter of fact, he got quite curt with me when I sent him the
>Elecraft Programmer's Reference:
>
>W0FM:
>" Thanks Scott. Would having the Elecraft K3 Programmer's Reference be of
>help? "
>
>N3FJP:
>" No, again, "fixing" the K3 may introduce problems for other Elecrafts.
>
>73, Scott
>N3FJP"
>
>
>Looks like I'll be shopping for a new logging program.
>
>Terry, W0FM
>
>
>_______________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Post to: [hidden email]
>You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
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>Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

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Jeff Wandling W7BRS

Re: K3-Problem with DX spot point-&-click and ACLog

I'll keep my fingers on the VFO. I can't go HRD path.

As far as ACLog.. Ugh.

The way for him to solve the problem is to make the source GPL'd.
There's a fair number of technical people on this list who would be able
to patch his code to make it work.

Everyone benefits, including him by being able to sell the improved code
base with the premium features obtained by paying the fee. He wouldn't
lose a dime*

I don't know why he doesn't GPL it. *The trial license featue is easily
worked around by simply re-installing the software.

-jeff

On Thu, 30 Oct 2008, Greg - AB7R wrote:
> Check out N1MM for contesting. It's free, and it does much more the ACLog. For
> general logging, try HRD. It has a nice log and great K3 support.
>
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ab2tc

Re: K3-Problem with DX spot point-&-click and ACLog

You bet I'll keep my fingers on the VFO. For regular tuning up and down the band, in my view there is no substitute for a tuning knob. But point and click is very convenient for cluster spots and fast QSY in general.

Jeff Wandling W7BRS wrote

I'll keep my fingers on the VFO. I can't go HRD path.

David Woolley (E.L)

Re: K3-Problem with DX spot point-&-click and ACLog

In reply to this post by Jeff Wandling W7BRS

Jeff Wandling W7BRS wrote:

> The way for him to solve the problem is to make the source GPL'd.
> There's a fair number of technical people on this list who would be able
> to patch his code to make it work.
>
> Everyone benefits, including him by being able to sell the improved code
> base with the premium features obtained by paying the fee. He wouldn't
> lose a dime*

Unless people voluntarily assign it to him, he would not own the
copyright in any modifications, so he would not be able to sell
copyright licences (or the actual copyright). He can still sell the
service of putting it onto media, or otherwise distributing, and for
support, but anyone else would be free to do so.

He could also use changes to understand where problems lie, and make his
own changes to fix the problems, but would need to be careful to avoid
any accusation of copying. He would still own the copyright in his
original work, and could licence it, or derivatives of it, under any
licence he likes, in parallel with the GPL.

(Exception: trivial and obvious changes cannot be copyrighted. I
believe the Free Software Foundation (FSF) uses four changed as the
measure of what is trivial.)

This is not to say that using the GPL would be a bad idea, just that one
needs to understand the limitations.

Note: the FSF believe that assigning copyright requires a formal
contract, and make a token payment (USD 1) for copyrights assigned to
them. Assigning means transferring ownership of the intellectual
property, losing ones own rights in it.

--
David Woolley
"The Elecraft list is a forum for the discussion of topics related to
Elecraft products and more general topics related ham radio"
List Guidelines <http://www.elecraft.com/elecraft_list_guidelines.htm>
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w7aqk

Re: K3-Problem with DX spot point-&-click and ACLog

In reply to this post by Terry Schieler

Terry and All,

Hmmm! Sure doesn't sound like the Scott I've been dealing with for 8 years?
10 year? I have been using his ACLog program for all that time, and he has
always been very cooperative. I would add, however, that when I inquired if
he had ever thought about offering an adaptation of his logging program for
use on a Pocket PC, he indicated he just hadn't had the time to consider
doing that, and wasn't sure when and if he could. But he was nice enough
about it.

I rather suspect you caught him on a bad day, or possible there was
something conveyed in your original conversation with him (which we don't
really know the content of) that might have come across not quite as you
intended. My wife says I can be that way sometimes, even though it isn't on
purpose. With some 2000 K3's out there in the bushes, and a lot more
coming, I would think Scott might see the benefit of having a K3 version. I
have no idea if he really follows the Elecraft success story though.
Possibly if he hears from more of his customers who now use K3's, he might
be persuaded to give it more priority. So, for whatever good it might do,
I'll drop him an email indicating how much I hope he can find time to
accomodate us. It will take a lot more than just me to have any impact
however. By the way, I have been inclined all these years to recommend
ACLog anytime someone asked. Maybe the way to get Scott's attention is to
ask him if future recommendations should contain a caveat that not all
features of his program will fully integrate with K3's as they do with other
transceivers. Maybe I'll try that approach, but very tactfully (I hope).

Dave W7AQK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Schieler" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 8:20 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3-Problem with DX spot point-&-click and ACLog

> FWIW.
>
> Well I spoke with Scott, N3FJP regarding the problems I had with the K3
> and
> his ACLog logging program. Although there is a radio selection for
> Elecraft
> in his CAT software he says it does not support the K3. I offered to help
> him (which I've done before) but he said he was afraid if he made changes
> to
> ACLog for K3 support it could harm the functionality with other Elecraft
> rigs. Matter of fact, he got quite curt with me when I sent him the
> Elecraft Programmer's Reference:
>
> W0FM:
> " Thanks Scott. Would having the Elecraft K3 Programmer's Reference be of
> help? "
>
> N3FJP:
> " No, again, "fixing" the K3 may introduce problems for other Elecrafts.
>
> 73, Scott
> N3FJP"
>
>
> Looks like I'll be shopping for a new logging program.
>
> Terry, W0FM
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

Terry Schieler

RE: K3-Problem with DX spot point-&-click and ACLog

Hi Dave (W7AQK) et all:

You are correct, Dave. I have been a strong supporter of Scott's logging
software for many, many years. I spent a great deal of my own time working
with him to get ACLog to work with my (then new) FT1000MP. We finally got
there, and it worked flawlessly ever since. That is exactly why I was so
surprised with Scott's reaction to my offer to help with the implementation
of the K3. What the heck, it's almost the same basic framework as the K2,
which he has implemented.

I watched curiously as Scott's attention turned to weather forecasting
software and some other projects just a bit "outside the box" in my mind. I
was a huge proponent of ACLog specifically because of Scott and Kimberly's
great support for the program and recommended it to everyone (see my posts
on eHam.net). That is exactly why I felt like Scott brushed me off when I
had specific questions about the K3 interface. To me, it sounded like he
was saying "I'm not going there". Perhaps he's too busy, perhaps he has
developed other interests, and, like you say, maybe I caught him on a bad
day. I don't know. But as someone who has helped him promote his product
in the past, and offered to do it again, who is then rebuked, I don't know
what else to think. (Insert typical: "I have no financial or business
interest in ACLog" here.)

Again, you are, indeed, correct. It sure doesn't sound like the Scott that
I've dealt with for many years. But how do you do what he does in light of
the huge success of Elecraft's K3?

I have since sampled some very nice logging and CAT software to which I
wouldn't have given a moment of thought to until now.

73,
Terry, W0FM

-----Original Message-----
From: David Yarnes [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 9:22 PM
To: Terry Schieler; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3-Problem with DX spot point-&-click and ACLog

Terry and All,

Hmmm! Sure doesn't sound like the Scott I've been dealing with for 8 years?

10 year? I have been using his ACLog program for all that time, and he has
always been very cooperative. I would add, however, that when I inquired if

he had ever thought about offering an adaptation of his logging program for
use on a Pocket PC, he indicated he just hadn't had the time to consider
doing that, and wasn't sure when and if he could. But he was nice enough
about it.

I rather suspect you caught him on a bad day, or possible there was
something conveyed in your original conversation with him (which we don't
really know the content of) that might have come across not quite as you
intended. My wife says I can be that way sometimes, even though it isn't on

purpose. With some 2000 K3's out there in the bushes, and a lot more
coming, I would think Scott might see the benefit of having a K3 version. I

have no idea if he really follows the Elecraft success story though.
Possibly if he hears from more of his customers who now use K3's, he might
be persuaded to give it more priority. So, for whatever good it might do,
I'll drop him an email indicating how much I hope he can find time to
accomodate us. It will take a lot more than just me to have any impact
however. By the way, I have been inclined all these years to recommend
ACLog anytime someone asked. Maybe the way to get Scott's attention is to
ask him if future recommendations should contain a caveat that not all
features of his program will fully integrate with K3's as they do with other

transceivers. Maybe I'll try that approach, but very tactfully (I hope).

Dave W7AQK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Terry Schieler" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 8:20 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3-Problem with DX spot point-&-click and ACLog