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K3 QSK/CW receive audio dropouts

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Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS

K3 QSK/CW receive audio dropouts

This post was updated on .

Hi all,

few days ago I realized on K3 (using latest MCU/FPF) weird receive audio dropout problem.
It happends during QSK CW operation and it is hearable in audio in between TX periods > time to time but it is repeatable. I did not heard these dropouts during receiving only mode...
Simply when I am listenning on K3 all is ok but when I am starting to call CW or I am making QSO then dropouts in audio are readable in between TX periods with QSK.

Is there someone with similar effect please?
Is there chance that it is linked to K3S weird transmit audio dropout problem discussed in different threat?

Thank for ideas.

73 - Petr, OK1RP

73 - Petr, OK1RP
"Apple & Elecraft freak"
B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 QSK CW Audio Dropouts

Petr,

Yes, Wayne' explanation was that the PA Temp is sampled between
characters in CW, so if one uses QSK and listens closely, you can hear
the gaps in the audio when the K3 returns to receive.

You may find a change in a firmware upgrade coming soon, but I don't
know when.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/6/2015 12:05 PM, ok1rp wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> few days ago I realized on K3 (using latest MCU/FPF) weird receive audio
> dropout problem.
> It happends during QSK CW operation and it is hearable in audio in between
> TX periods > time to time but it is repeatable. I did not heard these
> dropouts during receiving only mode...
> Simply when I am listenning on K3 all is ok but when I am starting to call
> CW or I am making QSO then dropouts in audio are readable in between TX
> periods with QSK.
>
> Is there someone with similar effect please?
> Is there chance that it is linked to K3S weird transmit audio dropout
> problem discussed in different threat?
>
>

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Jim - N4ST

Re: K3 QSK CW Audio Dropouts

In reply to this post by Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS

If it is the PA Temp issue, the dropouts should only occur on 12, 10 & 6
meters.
The other bands will be clean.
Drove me nuts when I got my new K3S last week.

__________
73,
Jim - N4ST

-----Original Message-----
From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of ok1rp
Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 12:05
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 QSK CW Audio Dropouts

Hi all,

few days ago I realized on K3 (using latest MCU/FPF) weird receive audio
dropout problem.
It happends during QSK CW operation and it is hearable in audio in between
TX periods > time to time but it is repeatable. I did not heard these
dropouts during receiving only mode...
Simply when I am listenning on K3 all is ok but when I am starting to call
CW or I am making QSO then dropouts in audio are readable in between TX
periods with QSK.

Is there someone with similar effect please?
Is there chance that it is linked to K3S weird transmit audio dropout
problem discussed in different threat?

Thank for ideas.

73 - Petr, OK1RP

-----
http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
--
View this message in context:
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-QSK-CW-Audio-Dropouts-tp7610047.html
Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Steve Ellington-2

Re: K3 QSK CW Audio Dropouts

K3S....QSK on any band, CW...I hear an occasional clunk or pop but only
when using the bug. Seems like it builds up then suddenly discharges or
something or maybe a weird timing issue. Nothing too serious. I don't
notice it with the internal keyer, just the bug and on the lower bands 80,
40 etc.
N4LQ

On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 1:15 PM, Jim - N4ST <[hidden email]> wrote:

> If it is the PA Temp issue, the dropouts should only occur on 12, 10 & 6
> meters.
> The other bands will be clean.
> Drove me nuts when I got my new K3S last week.
>
> __________
> 73,
> Jim - N4ST
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Elecraft [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> ok1rp
> Sent: Friday, November 6, 2015 12:05
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 QSK CW Audio Dropouts
>
> Hi all,
>
> few days ago I realized on K3 (using latest MCU/FPF) weird receive audio
> dropout problem.
> It happends during QSK CW operation and it is hearable in audio in between
> TX periods > time to time but it is repeatable. I did not heard these
> dropouts during receiving only mode...
> Simply when I am listenning on K3 all is ok but when I am starting to call
> CW or I am making QSO then dropouts in audio are readable in between TX
> periods with QSK.
>
> Is there someone with similar effect please?
> Is there chance that it is linked to K3S weird transmit audio dropout
> problem discussed in different threat?
>
> Thank for ideas.
>
> 73 - Petr, OK1RP
>
>
>
> -----
> http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
> --
> View this message in context:
>
> http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-QSK-CW-Audio-Dropouts-tp7610047.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 QSK CW Audio Dropouts

That particular audio dropout that I described will only happen on 12,
10 and 6 meters.
If something similar is heard on other bands, look for some other cause.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 11/6/2015 3:06 PM, Steve Ellington wrote:
> K3S....QSK on any band, CW...I hear an occasional clunk or pop but only
> when using the bug. Seems like it builds up then suddenly discharges or
> something or maybe a weird timing issue. Nothing too serious. I don't
> notice it with the internal keyer, just the bug and on the lower bands 80,
> 40 etc.
> N4LQ
>
>

______________________________________________________________
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Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K3 QSK CW Audio Dropouts

In reply to this post by Steve Ellington-2

Steve, I believe anything else you are hearing is something else. This
issue is strictly on 12M, 10M and 6M. Even noticed on 10M and 6M AM
with the artifact being a momentary carrier collapse. It's fast, about
10 milliseconds and does occur every 15 seconds.

I tried a bug with my K3S and did not find to have reliable keying. I
cleaned the bug contacts but to no avail. Went back to the Iambic
paddles and the internal keyer with 100% satisfaction.

73
Bob, K4TAX

On 11/6/2015 2:06 PM, Steve Ellington wrote:
> K3S....QSK on any band, CW...I hear an occasional clunk or pop but only
> when using the bug. Seems like it builds up then suddenly discharges or
> something or maybe a weird timing issue. Nothing too serious. I don't
> notice it with the internal keyer, just the bug and on the lower bands 80,
> 40 etc.
> N4LQ

______________________________________________________________
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Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
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Steve Ellington-2

Re: K3 QSK CW Audio Dropouts

Depends on the bug. With my McElroy stream I had to add a 1uf capacitor in
parallel with it. After reducing the dit gap to compensate to the keying,
it sounds great.
On my Vibroplex Presentation, no capacitor is needed and keying is perfect.
I noticed the same thing on my old K3 and a few other rigs. I suspect it's
something to do with contact bounce due to variations in the dit spring and
how different rigs react to the bounce.
I have to remember we are no longer just keying a circuit rather we are
keying a computer from another planet. :*)
Steve N4LQ

On Fri, Nov 6, 2015 at 4:04 PM, Bob McGraw - K4TAX <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Steve, I believe anything else you are hearing is something else. This
> issue is strictly on 12M, 10M and 6M. Even noticed on 10M and 6M AM with
> the artifact being a momentary carrier collapse. It's fast, about 10
> milliseconds and does occur every 15 seconds.
>
> I tried a bug with my K3S and did not find to have reliable keying. I
> cleaned the bug contacts but to no avail. Went back to the Iambic paddles
> and the internal keyer with 100% satisfaction.
>
> 73
> Bob, K4TAX
>
> On 11/6/2015 2:06 PM, Steve Ellington wrote:
>
>> K3S....QSK on any band, CW...I hear an occasional clunk or pop but only
>> when using the bug. Seems like it builds up then suddenly discharges or
>> something or maybe a weird timing issue. Nothing too serious. I don't
>> notice it with the internal keyer, just the bug and on the lower bands 80,
>> 40 etc.
>> N4LQ
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS

Re: K3 QSK CW Audio Dropouts

Hi,

It happends even when K3 is keying from it´s memory. So paddle or ext. bug is not an issue.

73 - Petr, OK1RP

73 - Petr, OK1RP
"Apple & Elecraft freak"
B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt

wayne burdick

Re: K3 QSK CW Audio Dropouts

Administrator

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

We're talking about two different things.

What OK1RP may be hearing is the ATU switching its relays when he first transmits in a band segment that requires new LC settings. The firmware attempts to do that between CW elements (in RX mode). This should be extremely rare. (If it's happening more frequently, it could be related to particular combination of AGC and QSK menu settings along with high QRM/QRN on a given frequency. I would try selecting "OLD QSK" or "NEW QSK" to see if that has any impact, and/or increase the AGC THR value.)

The PA temperature anomaly reported earlier should also be extremely rare, and in fact no one had even mentioned it in years. Nothing has changed in this firmware recently. But I'm working on a firmware improvement for that and will discuss it later after testing.

Wayne
N6KR

On Nov 6, 2015, at 9:45 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Petr,
>
> Yes, Wayne' explanation was that the PA Temp is sampled between characters in CW, so if one uses QSK and listens closely, you can hear the gaps in the audio when the K3 returns to receive.
>
> You may find a change in a firmware upgrade coming soon, but I don't know when.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 11/6/2015 12:05 PM, ok1rp wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> few days ago I realized on K3 (using latest MCU/FPF) weird receive audio
>> dropout problem.
>> It happends during QSK CW operation and it is hearable in audio in between
>> TX periods > time to time but it is repeatable. I did not heard these
>> dropouts during receiving only mode...
>> Simply when I am listenning on K3 all is ok but when I am starting to call
>> CW or I am making QSO then dropouts in audio are readable in between TX
>> periods with QSK.
>>
>> Is there someone with similar effect please?
>> Is there chance that it is linked to K3S weird transmit audio dropout
>> problem discussed in different threat?
>>
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Vic Rosenthal

Re: K3 QSK CW Audio Dropouts

I tried to hear this and didn't succeed. And I'm the world's most finicky QSK user.

Vic 4X6GP/K2VCO

> On 7 Nov 2015, at 3:04 AM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> We're talking about two different things.
>
> What OK1RP may be hearing is the ATU switching its relays when he first transmits in a band segment that requires new LC settings. The firmware attempts to do that between CW elements (in RX mode). This should be extremely rare. (If it's happening more frequently, it could be related to particular combination of AGC and QSK menu settings along with high QRM/QRN on a given frequency. I would try selecting "OLD QSK" or "NEW QSK" to see if that has any impact, and/or increase the AGC THR value.)
>
> The PA temperature anomaly reported earlier should also be extremely rare, and in fact no one had even mentioned it in years. Nothing has changed in this firmware recently. But I'm working on a firmware improvement for that and will discuss it later after testing.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
>> On Nov 6, 2015, at 9:45 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>
>> Petr,
>>
>> Yes, Wayne' explanation was that the PA Temp is sampled between characters in CW, so if one uses QSK and listens closely, you can hear the gaps in the audio when the K3 returns to receive.
>>
>> You may find a change in a firmware upgrade coming soon, but I don't know when.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>>> On 11/6/2015 12:05 PM, ok1rp wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> few days ago I realized on K3 (using latest MCU/FPF) weird receive audio
>>> dropout problem.
>>> It happends during QSK CW operation and it is hearable in audio in between
>>> TX periods > time to time but it is repeatable. I did not heard these
>>> dropouts during receiving only mode...
>>> Simply when I am listenning on K3 all is ok but when I am starting to call
>>> CW or I am making QSO then dropouts in audio are readable in between TX
>>> periods with QSK.
>>>
>>> Is there someone with similar effect please?
>>> Is there chance that it is linked to K3S weird transmit audio dropout
>>> problem discussed in different threat?
>>

Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS

Re: K3 QSK CW Audio Dropouts

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Hi Wayne,

Many thanks!
The ATU switching is not the case probably because my ATU was
bypassed...
I will try to check what will be changed when old/new QSK is used.
I will report the results.

Best regards,
73 - Petr, OK1RP

On Sat, Nov 7, 2015, at 02:04 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:

> We're talking about two different things.
>
> What OK1RP may be hearing is the ATU switching its relays when he first
> transmits in a band segment that requires new LC settings. The firmware
> attempts to do that between CW elements (in RX mode). This should be
> extremely rare. (If it's happening more frequently, it could be related
> to particular combination of AGC and QSK menu settings along with high
> QRM/QRN on a given frequency. I would try selecting "OLD QSK" or "NEW
> QSK" to see if that has any impact, and/or increase the AGC THR value.)
>
> The PA temperature anomaly reported earlier should also be extremely
> rare, and in fact no one had even mentioned it in years. Nothing has
> changed in this firmware recently. But I'm working on a firmware
> improvement for that and will discuss it later after testing.
>
> Wayne
> N6KR
>
>
> On Nov 6, 2015, at 9:45 AM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > Petr,
> >
> > Yes, Wayne' explanation was that the PA Temp is sampled between characters in CW, so if one uses QSK and listens closely, you can hear the gaps in the audio when the K3 returns to receive.
> >
> > You may find a change in a firmware upgrade coming soon, but I don't know when.
> >
> > 73,
> > Don W3FPR
> >
> > On 11/6/2015 12:05 PM, ok1rp wrote:
> >> Hi all,
> >>
> >> few days ago I realized on K3 (using latest MCU/FPF) weird receive audio
> >> dropout problem.
> >> It happends during QSK CW operation and it is hearable in audio in between
> >> TX periods > time to time but it is repeatable. I did not heard these
> >> dropouts during receiving only mode...
> >> Simply when I am listenning on K3 all is ok but when I am starting to call
> >> CW or I am making QSO then dropouts in audio are readable in between TX
> >> periods with QSK.
> >>
> >> Is there someone with similar effect please?
> >> Is there chance that it is linked to K3S weird transmit audio dropout
> >> problem discussed in different threat?
> >>
> >>
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> > Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

73 - Petr, OK1RP
"Apple & Elecraft freak"
B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt

Petr, OK1RP/M0SIS

Re: K3 QSK CW Audio Dropouts

Hi Wayne and others,

so after testing it I have to report that it is the same in both modes...standard QSK as same as in QRQ mode. It is occasional issue but it is repeatable. It is noticeable even with ATU bypassed, AGC THR 008... both QSK modes, quiet band...

73 - Petr, OK1RP

73 - Petr, OK1RP
"Apple & Elecraft freak"
B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx
MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt