K3 QSK Timing
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I have finally achieved one of my life goals and am the owner of a real
digital oscilloscope (Siglent SDS1202X-E). What is great about this compared to my prior life with super-cheap n-hand scopes is that it can actually measure things. So the first job I gave it was to measure the time between KEY OUT going to ground and the start of RF from my K3, as well as the time between the end of RF and KEY OUT opening. It is a K3 upgraded with the new synthesizers. So I would expect the K3S to be similar, but if anyone feels like measuring one, I would be interested. MCU Firmware is 5.64 (not quite the latest). So here is what I determined: with 35 wpm dits (or dahs, it doesn't matter) from the internal keyer in Full QSK mode, CONFIG TX DLY = 8 (normal), there is a minimum of 5.6 ms between KEY OUT low and the first whiff of RF. I say minimum, because there is a certain amount of jitter in the length of the element, and the interval is sometimes a bit longer. The interval after RF before KEY OUT goes high is similar. In semi-QSK the delay before RF is the same. Setting TX DLY to a greater value subtracts time from the keyed element and adds it to the delay. So setting it to 9 gives you a delay of 6.6 ms but the period that RF is on is 1 ms shorter. It's interesting that the normal delay with QRQ mode on is still 5.6 ms. And the jitter is still noticeable. I didn't try changing TX DLY with QRQ mode on. Results were not significantly different at speeds of 25 and 40 wpm. So if you are using it to drive an amplifier without special timing circuitry (i.e., where the key line passes through the amplifier before going to the transceiver), make sure the relays in the amplifier are fast enough! -- 73, Victor, 4X6GP Rehovot, Israel Formerly K2VCO CWops no. 5 http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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"So here is what I determined: with 35 wpm dits (or dahs, it doesn't matter) from the internal keyer in Full QSK mode, CONFIG TX DLY = 8 (normal), there is a minimum of 5.6 ms between KEY OUT low and the first whiff of RF. I say minimum, because there is a certain amount of jitter in the length of the element, and the interval is sometimes a bit longer. The interval after RF before KEY OUT goes high is similar."
I made similar measurements on my Kenwood TS-590S with a Rogol DS1054Z. However, I also captured RX audio on one 'scope channel. I found the limiting factor for QSK was the time it took the receiver to recover after the internal TR relay had switched. The practical QSK limit for the TS-590S was about 26 wpm. Any faster than that and the receiver did not "open" between elements. 73, Andy, k3wyc ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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For any practical purpose needed by amateur radio operators that I can think of, the ability to hear between elements is not a life-and-death virtue. The ability to hear between characters is by far magical enough.
I speak as one who has been doing 30 wpm full-QSK traffic work for 60 years, beginning with Johnson and B&W vacuum tube electronic T/R switches common in the late fifties and early sixties. Back then the trick was to prevent RF from the transmitter being pumped directly into the receiver when both were connected “live” to the same antenna. The other issue was how to monitor one’s sending. Some operators preferred muting their receivers and listening on an external monitor. While some electronic T/R switches did have provisions for receiver muting, if unmuting was not fast enough, QSK itself was compromised. Personally, I preferred copying on the unmuted RF-protected but RF Gain-reduced receiver itself. Using separate transmitters and receivers with no internal switching mechanism, the main worry in those days was protecting the receiver from RF. Today, using nothing but transceivers, the main worry is protecting relays from hot-switching (especially in linear amplifiers). I was reading the mail recently on a couple of high-speed ops enjoying a lengthy QSO together, punctuated by frequent break-ins from the listening side. By the time the sender had heard and reacted to the break-in, at least one and sometimes two (depending on length) complete words (not elements or characters) had already been transmitted. In short, hearing between elements gave us bragging fodder but served no real practical purpose. Hearing between characters was (and remains) way good enough for CW traffic work, and, in my opinion, Elecraft pin-diode switching is the best of the best. 73, Kent K9ZTV > On Jun 2, 2020, someone wrote: > > The practical QSK limit for the TS-590S was about 26 wpm. Any faster than that and the receiver did not "open" between elements. > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by ANDY DURBIN
"In short, hearing between elements gave us bragging fodder but served no real practical purpose. "
My interest was from an engineering perspective. I found that, at typical contest and DX chasing speeds, the TS-590S BDLY-FBK (full break-in) setting offered no operational advantage. I chose to set break in delay to "5" which stops the TR relay cycling for each element and still allows me to hear between characters. No reason to beat the TR relay to death. 73, Andy, k3wyc ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Vic Rosenthal
Really interesting, Vic. Here's a minor point: Instead of measuring to the "first whiff" of RF, I'd probably measure to the point of 90% of max RF value. This is because the rise time of a pulse is usually defined as the time to go from 10% to 90% of the final (peak) value.
Congratulations on your new scope. Al W6LX ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Well, that is probably how Elecraft came up with the published spec of 8
ms. But since what I'm concerned with is preventing hot-switching, my number is more useful. 73, Victor, 4X6GP Rehovot, Israel Formerly K2VCO CWops no. 5 http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/ On 02/06/2020 19:39, Al Lorona wrote: > Really interesting, Vic. Here's a minor point: Instead of measuring > to the "first whiff" of RF, I'd probably measure to the point of 90% > of max RF value. This is because the rise time of a pulse is usually > defined as the time to go from 10% to 90% of the final (peak) value. > > Congratulations on your new scope. > > Al W6LX > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by KENT TRIMBLE
I have always felt as K9ZTV does.
I don't mean to speak heresy here, and I would never deny anybody's right to use full QSK, such as when chasing DX. However, I have never felt the need to hear between dits. Between characters or words seems more than enough for me, especially at the CW speeds where most people exist. Plus, I've always felt it was rude to be interrupted during a transmission for anything other than an emergency. One time, when I was a novice, the other guy suddenly broke in frantically: MUST QRT QRT LOST BIAS. That was definitely a valid emergency. I could almost smell his final getting red hot and hear the plate current pegging the meter that evening. Al W6LX >>>For any practical purpose needed by amateur radio operators that I can think of, the ability to hear between elements is not a life-and-death virtue. The ability to hear between characters is by far magical enough. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Not being a high speed CW op nor a contest CW op, I find that QSK is,
well, just very nice. I don't need to hear between the CW elements, nor even the letters, but more so in between the words. Some ops have a clean fist but run all the words together. No spaces. Drives me nuts. Itwouldbelikemewritingthismessageandnotputtinginanyspaces Now that just doesn't work with my brain. As to break-in or full QSK, I see it much like a conversation occurs in a room. There's thoughts shared back and forth between participants and does the allude to swapping ops. Yet, one can operate semi-QSK with the same style and results. Seems that after all, once CW speed gets above certain points, hearing between CW elements and words become non existent. After 61 years as a ham, starting as a Novice in 1959, I'm becoming a fairly good CW op and likewise enjoying it. I use it largely to stimulate my old slow brain. 73 Bob, K4TAX On 6/11/2020 11:59 AM, Al Lorona wrote: > I have always felt as K9ZTV does. > > I don't mean to speak heresy here, and I would never deny anybody's right to use full QSK, such as when chasing DX. However, I have never felt the need to hear between dits. Between characters or words seems more than enough for me, especially at the CW speeds where most people exist. Plus, I've always felt it was rude to be interrupted during a transmission for anything other than an emergency. One time, when I was a novice, the other guy suddenly broke in frantically: MUST QRT QRT LOST BIAS. That was definitely a valid emergency. I could almost smell his final getting red hot and hear the plate current pegging the meter that evening. > > Al W6LX > > >>>> For any practical purpose needed by amateur radio operators that I can think of, the ability to hear between elements is not a life-and-death virtue. The ability to hear between characters is by far magical enough. > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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I still do CW traffic handling, qsk is really important to me. That’s the reason I plunked down m money for the K4.
Tom W4KX Sent from my iPad > On Jun 11, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Not being a high speed CW op nor a contest CW op, I find that QSK is, well, just very nice. I don't need to hear between the CW elements, nor even the letters, but more so in between the words. Some ops have a clean fist but run all the words together. No spaces. Drives me nuts. Itwouldbelikemewritingthismessageandnotputtinginanyspaces Now that just doesn't work with my brain. > > As to break-in or full QSK, I see it much like a conversation occurs in a room. There's thoughts shared back and forth between participants and does the allude to swapping ops. Yet, one can operate semi-QSK with the same style and results. Seems that after all, once CW speed gets above certain points, hearing between CW elements and words become non existent. > > After 61 years as a ham, starting as a Novice in 1959, I'm becoming a fairly good CW op and likewise enjoying it. I use it largely to stimulate my old slow brain. > > 73 > > Bob, K4TAX > > > > >> On 6/11/2020 11:59 AM, Al Lorona wrote: >> I have always felt as K9ZTV does. >> >> I don't mean to speak heresy here, and I would never deny anybody's right to use full QSK, such as when chasing DX. However, I have never felt the need to hear between dits. Between characters or words seems more than enough for me, especially at the CW speeds where most people exist. Plus, I've always felt it was rude to be interrupted during a transmission for anything other than an emergency. One time, when I was a novice, the other guy suddenly broke in frantically: MUST QRT QRT LOST BIAS. That was definitely a valid emergency. I could almost smell his final getting red hot and hear the plate current pegging the meter that evening. >> >> Al W6LX >> >> >>>>> For any practical purpose needed by amateur radio operators that I can think of, the ability to hear between elements is not a life-and-death virtue. The ability to hear between characters is by far magical enough. >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to [hidden email] > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Hi Tom,
On the K4, with full QSK selected, you can hear between dots at 40 WPM. There's no need for a "QRQ" mode, as on the K3, because the K4 doesn't have to update a synth between TX and RX. Wayne N6KR > On Jun 11, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Tom Doligalski via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote: > > I still do CW traffic handling, qsk is really important to me. That’s the reason I plunked down m money for the K4. > > Tom W4KX > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Jun 11, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Not being a high speed CW op nor a contest CW op, I find that QSK is, well, just very nice. I don't need to hear between the CW elements, nor even the letters, but more so in between the words. Some ops have a clean fist but run all the words together. No spaces. Drives me nuts. Itwouldbelikemewritingthismessageandnotputtinginanyspaces Now that just doesn't work with my brain. >> >> As to break-in or full QSK, I see it much like a conversation occurs in a room. There's thoughts shared back and forth between participants and does the allude to swapping ops. Yet, one can operate semi-QSK with the same style and results. Seems that after all, once CW speed gets above certain points, hearing between CW elements and words become non existent. >> >> After 61 years as a ham, starting as a Novice in 1959, I'm becoming a fairly good CW op and likewise enjoying it. I use it largely to stimulate my old slow brain. >> >> 73 >> >> Bob, K4TAX >> >> >> >> >>> On 6/11/2020 11:59 AM, Al Lorona wrote: >>> I have always felt as K9ZTV does. >>> >>> I don't mean to speak heresy here, and I would never deny anybody's right to use full QSK, such as when chasing DX. However, I have never felt the need to hear between dits. Between characters or words seems more than enough for me, especially at the CW speeds where most people exist. Plus, I've always felt it was rude to be interrupted during a transmission for anything other than an emergency. One time, when I was a novice, the other guy suddenly broke in frantically: MUST QRT QRT LOST BIAS. That was definitely a valid emergency. I could almost smell his final getting red hot and hear the plate current pegging the meter that evening. >>> >>> Al W6LX >>> >>> >>>>>> For any practical purpose needed by amateur radio operators that I can think of, the ability to hear between elements is not a life-and-death virtue. The ability to hear between characters is by far magical enough. >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> Message delivered to [hidden email] >> >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to [hidden email] > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Hi Wayne!
I had faith that the excellent qsk in the K3 would carry over to the K4. Thanks so much! I can easily recognize other rigs in cw nets. 50 years of cw traffic! Tom W4KX Sent from my iPad > On Jun 11, 2020, at 3:23 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Hi Tom, > > On the K4, with full QSK selected, you can hear between dots at 40 WPM. > > There's no need for a "QRQ" mode, as on the K3, because the K4 doesn't have to update a synth between TX and RX. > > Wayne > N6KR > > >> On Jun 11, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Tom Doligalski via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> I still do CW traffic handling, qsk is really important to me. That’s the reason I plunked down m money for the K4. >> >> Tom W4KX >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> Not being a high speed CW op nor a contest CW op, I find that QSK is, well, just very nice. I don't need to hear between the CW elements, nor even the letters, but more so in between the words. Some ops have a clean fist but run all the words together. No spaces. Drives me nuts. Itwouldbelikemewritingthismessageandnotputtinginanyspaces Now that just doesn't work with my brain. >>> >>> As to break-in or full QSK, I see it much like a conversation occurs in a room. There's thoughts shared back and forth between participants and does the allude to swapping ops. Yet, one can operate semi-QSK with the same style and results. Seems that after all, once CW speed gets above certain points, hearing between CW elements and words become non existent. >>> >>> After 61 years as a ham, starting as a Novice in 1959, I'm becoming a fairly good CW op and likewise enjoying it. I use it largely to stimulate my old slow brain. >>> >>> 73 >>> >>> Bob, K4TAX >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 6/11/2020 11:59 AM, Al Lorona wrote: >>>> I have always felt as K9ZTV does. >>>> >>>> I don't mean to speak heresy here, and I would never deny anybody's right to use full QSK, such as when chasing DX. However, I have never felt the need to hear between dits. Between characters or words seems more than enough for me, especially at the CW speeds where most people exist. Plus, I've always felt it was rude to be interrupted during a transmission for anything other than an emergency. One time, when I was a novice, the other guy suddenly broke in frantically: MUST QRT QRT LOST BIAS. That was definitely a valid emergency. I could almost smell his final getting red hot and hear the plate current pegging the meter that evening. >>>> >>>> Al W6LX >>>> >>>> >>>>>>> For any practical purpose needed by amateur radio operators that I can think of, the ability to hear between elements is not a life-and-death virtue. The ability to hear between characters is by far magical enough. >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>> Elecraft mailing list >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>> Message delivered to [hidden email] >>> >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> Message delivered to [hidden email] >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Message delivered to [hidden email] > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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I eavesdrop on the 80 m traffic nets occasionally. Impressive level of efficiency and skill among the ops. Who knew there were so many Q-codes :)
Wayne N6KR > On Jun 11, 2020, at 2:03 PM, Tom Doligalski <[hidden email]> wrote: > > Hi Wayne! > > I had faith that the excellent qsk in the K3 would carry over to the K4. Thanks so much! > > I can easily recognize other rigs in cw nets. > > 50 years of cw traffic! > > Tom W4KX > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Jun 11, 2020, at 3:23 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Hi Tom, >> >> On the K4, with full QSK selected, you can hear between dots at 40 WPM. >> >> There's no need for a "QRQ" mode, as on the K3, because the K4 doesn't have to update a synth between TX and RX. >> >> Wayne >> N6KR >> >> >>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Tom Doligalski via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> I still do CW traffic handling, qsk is really important to me. That’s the reason I plunked down m money for the K4. >>> >>> Tom W4KX >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Not being a high speed CW op nor a contest CW op, I find that QSK is, well, just very nice. I don't need to hear between the CW elements, nor even the letters, but more so in between the words. Some ops have a clean fist but run all the words together. No spaces. Drives me nuts. Itwouldbelikemewritingthismessageandnotputtinginanyspaces Now that just doesn't work with my brain. >>>> >>>> As to break-in or full QSK, I see it much like a conversation occurs in a room. There's thoughts shared back and forth between participants and does the allude to swapping ops. Yet, one can operate semi-QSK with the same style and results. Seems that after all, once CW speed gets above certain points, hearing between CW elements and words become non existent. >>>> >>>> After 61 years as a ham, starting as a Novice in 1959, I'm becoming a fairly good CW op and likewise enjoying it. I use it largely to stimulate my old slow brain. >>>> >>>> 73 >>>> >>>> Bob, K4TAX >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On 6/11/2020 11:59 AM, Al Lorona wrote: >>>>> I have always felt as K9ZTV does. >>>>> >>>>> I don't mean to speak heresy here, and I would never deny anybody's right to use full QSK, such as when chasing DX. However, I have never felt the need to hear between dits. Between characters or words seems more than enough for me, especially at the CW speeds where most people exist. Plus, I've always felt it was rude to be interrupted during a transmission for anything other than an emergency. One time, when I was a novice, the other guy suddenly broke in frantically: MUST QRT QRT LOST BIAS. That was definitely a valid emergency. I could almost smell his final getting red hot and hear the plate current pegging the meter that evening. >>>>> >>>>> Al W6LX >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>>>> For any practical purpose needed by amateur radio operators that I can think of, the ability to hear between elements is not a life-and-death virtue. The ability to hear between characters is by far magical enough. >>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>> Elecraft mailing list >>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>>>> >>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email] >>>> >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>> Elecraft mailing list >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>> Message delivered to [hidden email] >>> ______________________________________________________________ >>> Elecraft mailing list >>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>> >>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>> Message delivered to [hidden email] >> ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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The P3 is quite useful to an NTS NCS. I just called the Carolinas Net (CN) and was very pleased to see where I could send folks down 2 (while I had folks up 2). Things have got much more difficult with the digital modes!
Tom W4KX Sent from my iPad > On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:07 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote: > > I eavesdrop on the 80 m traffic nets occasionally. Impressive level of efficiency and skill among the ops. Who knew there were so many Q-codes :) > > Wayne > N6KR > > >> On Jun 11, 2020, at 2:03 PM, Tom Doligalski <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> Hi Wayne! >> >> I had faith that the excellent qsk in the K3 would carry over to the K4. Thanks so much! >> >> I can easily recognize other rigs in cw nets. >> >> 50 years of cw traffic! >> >> Tom W4KX >> >> Sent from my iPad >> >>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 3:23 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Tom, >>> >>> On the K4, with full QSK selected, you can hear between dots at 40 WPM. >>> >>> There's no need for a "QRQ" mode, as on the K3, because the K4 doesn't have to update a synth between TX and RX. >>> >>> Wayne >>> N6KR >>> >>> >>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Tom Doligalski via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>> I still do CW traffic handling, qsk is really important to me. That’s the reason I plunked down m money for the K4. >>>> >>>> Tom W4KX >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad >>>> >>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Not being a high speed CW op nor a contest CW op, I find that QSK is, well, just very nice. I don't need to hear between the CW elements, nor even the letters, but more so in between the words. Some ops have a clean fist but run all the words together. No spaces. Drives me nuts. Itwouldbelikemewritingthismessageandnotputtinginanyspaces Now that just doesn't work with my brain. >>>>> >>>>> As to break-in or full QSK, I see it much like a conversation occurs in a room. There's thoughts shared back and forth between participants and does the allude to swapping ops. Yet, one can operate semi-QSK with the same style and results. Seems that after all, once CW speed gets above certain points, hearing between CW elements and words become non existent. >>>>> >>>>> After 61 years as a ham, starting as a Novice in 1959, I'm becoming a fairly good CW op and likewise enjoying it. I use it largely to stimulate my old slow brain. >>>>> >>>>> 73 >>>>> >>>>> Bob, K4TAX >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On 6/11/2020 11:59 AM, Al Lorona wrote: >>>>>> I have always felt as K9ZTV does. >>>>>> >>>>>> I don't mean to speak heresy here, and I would never deny anybody's right to use full QSK, such as when chasing DX. However, I have never felt the need to hear between dits. Between characters or words seems more than enough for me, especially at the CW speeds where most people exist. Plus, I've always felt it was rude to be interrupted during a transmission for anything other than an emergency. One time, when I was a novice, the other guy suddenly broke in frantically: MUST QRT QRT LOST BIAS. That was definitely a valid emergency. I could almost smell his final getting red hot and hear the plate current pegging the meter that evening. >>>>>> >>>>>> Al W6LX >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> For any practical purpose needed by amateur radio operators that I can think of, the ability to hear between elements is not a life-and-death virtue. The ability to hear between characters is by far magical enough. >>>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>>> Elecraft mailing list >>>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>>>>> >>>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email] >>>>> >>>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>>> Elecraft mailing list >>>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>>>> >>>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>>> Message delivered to [hidden email] >>>> ______________________________________________________________ >>>> Elecraft mailing list >>>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >>>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >>>> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >>>> >>>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >>>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >>>> Message delivered to [hidden email] >>> > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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Panadapters are helpful but not essential for CW traffic work.
The procedure for the better part of a hundred years has been ... (1) The receiving station always goes to the frequency directed by the NCS or beyond if the directed frequency is busy. (2) Once the receiving station (not the sending station) has found a clear frequency, he repeatedly sends the sending station’s call sign until the sending station locates him. (3) Unless the above protocol is followed, neither station will find the other and will be two ships passing in the night. (4) While previous generations of traffic handlers did not have to contend with digital QRM, they did have to contend with CW QRM on bands many times more crowded than exist today, and with receivers many times less selective. The above time-tested procedure shifts responsibility for finding a clear frequency away from the NCS (where it does not belong) to the the two stations most interested in finding one. (5) In a well-run CW traffic net, the NCS functions as a traffic director by making judicious use of Q-signals specific to traffic work (there aren’t that many) to insure net efficiency and accuracy. (6) National Traffic System nets are not social nets. They clear their traffic and secure. 73, Kent K9ZTV Missouri Section Net Manager > On Jun 11, 2020, at 6:36 PM, Tom Doligalski via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote: > > The P3 is quite useful to an NTS NCS. I just called the Carolinas Net (CN) and was very pleased to see where I could send folks down 2 (while I had folks up 2). Things have got much more difficult with the digital modes! > > Tom W4KX > > Sent from my iPad > >> On Jun 11, 2020, at 5:07 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote: >> >> I eavesdrop on the 80 m traffic nets occasionally. Impressive level of efficiency and skill among the ops. Who knew there were so many Q-codes :) >> >> Wayne >> N6KR >> >> >>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 2:03 PM, Tom Doligalski <[hidden email]> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Wayne! >>> >>> I had faith that the excellent qsk in the K3 would carry over to the K4. Thanks so much! >>> >>> I can easily recognize other rigs in cw nets. >>> >>> 50 years of cw traffic! >>> >>> Tom W4KX >>> >>> Sent from my iPad >>> >>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 3:23 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Tom, >>>> >>>> On the K4, with full QSK selected, you can hear between dots at 40 WPM. >>>> >>>> There's no need for a "QRQ" mode, as on the K3, because the K4 doesn't have to update a synth between TX and RX. >>>> >>>> Wayne >>>> N6KR >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 11:51 AM, Tom Doligalski via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> I still do CW traffic handling, qsk is really important to me. That’s the reason I plunked down m money for the K4. >>>>> >>>>> Tom W4KX >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad >>>>> >>>>>>> On Jun 11, 2020, at 1:56 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX <[hidden email]> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Not being a high speed CW op nor a contest CW op, I find that QSK is, well, just very nice. I don't need to hear between the CW elements, nor even the letters, but more so in between the words. Some ops have a clean fist but run all the words together. No spaces. Drives me nuts. Itwouldbelikemewritingthismessageandnotputtinginanyspaces Now that just doesn't work with my brain. >>>>>> >>>>>> As to break-in or full QSK, I see it much like a conversation occurs in a room. There's thoughts shared back and forth between participants and does the allude to swapping ops. Yet, one can operate semi-QSK with the same style and results. Seems that after all, once CW speed gets above certain points, hearing between CW elements and words b ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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The Elecraft manual says the condenser type MH4 mic is acceptable for use on the K2, but I don't see any bias for it in the K2 or SSB2 schematics. I never had a mic for the K2 so I thought I'd get the MH4 and maybe use it on my K3s as well.
Am I missing something? Is there bias for it on the K2? Chuck Hawley [hidden email] Amateur Radio, KE9UW aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]
Chuck, KE9UW
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Hi Charles,
Bias for the MH4 (and previous MH2) mic is provided by placing a 5.6k resistor between pin 1 and 6 on the mic connector of the K2. Most of us just solder the resistor to those pins on the back of the mic connector on the Front Panel Board. My MH4 came with a small envelope that contained a 5.6k resistor and 8 2-pin jumpers for the mic config header. The UP and DN buttons on the MH4 switch between VFO A and VFO B on the K2. It switches bands on the K3, KX3 and KX2. 73, Dave, W8FGU On June 12, 2020 10:02:15 "hawley, charles j jr" <[hidden email]> wrote: > The Elecraft manual says the condenser type MH4 mic is acceptable for use > on the K2, but I don't see any bias for it in the K2 or SSB2 schematics. I > never had a mic for the K2 so I thought I'd get the MH4 and maybe use it on > my K3s as well. > Am I missing something? Is there bias for it on the K2? > > Chuck Hawley > [hidden email] > > Amateur Radio, KE9UW > aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by ke9uw
It is a front panel resistor that needs to be added if.. I recall.
-73- Frank KG9H [hidden email] > On Jun 12, 2020, at 9:00 AM, hawley, charles j jr <[hidden email]> wrote: > > The Elecraft manual says the condenser type MH4 mic is acceptable for use on the K2, but I don't see any bias for it in the K2 or SSB2 schematics. I never had a mic for the K2 so I thought I'd get the MH4 and maybe use it on my K3s as well. > Am I missing something? Is there bias for it on the K2? > > Chuck Hawley > [hidden email] > > Amateur Radio, KE9UW > aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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In reply to this post by Dave Van Wallaghen-2
Ah so...
That's going to take some disassembly. Disconnect the battery. Remove the RTC and unscrew the control board and pull the front panel off I guess. I just looked and need to install the 5 volt jumper and then the resistor. I finished building this 10 years ago so I had to get out the assembly manual 🙂 Thanks for the info, 73, Chuck Hawley [hidden email] Amateur Radio, KE9UW aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles ________________________________ From: Dave Van Wallaghen <[hidden email]> Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:11 AM To: hawley, charles j jr <[hidden email]>; Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] MH4 Mic on a K2? Hi Charles, Bias for the MH4 (and previous MH2) mic is provided by placing a 5.6k resistor between pin 1 and 6 on the mic connector of the K2. Most of us just solder the resistor to those pins on the back of the mic connector on the Front Panel Board. My MH4 came with a small envelope that contained a 5.6k resistor and 8 2-pin jumpers for the mic config header. The UP and DN buttons on the MH4 switch between VFO A and VFO B on the K2. It switches bands on the K3, KX3 and KX2. 73, Dave, W8FGU On June 12, 2020 10:02:15 "hawley, charles j jr" <[hidden email]> wrote: The Elecraft manual says the condenser type MH4 mic is acceptable for use on the K2, but I don't see any bias for it in the K2 or SSB2 schematics. I never had a mic for the K2 so I thought I'd get the MH4 and maybe use it on my K3s as well. Am I missing something? Is there bias for it on the K2? Chuck Hawley [hidden email] Amateur Radio, KE9UW aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mailman.qth.net_mailman_listinfo_elecraft&d=DwQFAg&c=OCIEmEwdEq_aNlsP4fF3gFqSN-E3mlr2t9JcDdfOZag&r=imPL7_MWlqUt4mUSmcrrMnd8cjgTGP0QkPfuSUyyYjY&m=Go-WDnT44ktbg8fFBGs4NY20Xlfto-4TkrE_f3xvXrc&s=2exrJpST0D7alfJA-3Ddelwi_AR-0qSndqbTbLQgUfQ&e=> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mailman.qth.net_mmfaq.htm&d=DwQFAg&c=OCIEmEwdEq_aNlsP4fF3gFqSN-E3mlr2t9JcDdfOZag&r=imPL7_MWlqUt4mUSmcrrMnd8cjgTGP0QkPfuSUyyYjY&m=Go-WDnT44ktbg8fFBGs4NY20Xlfto-4TkrE_f3xvXrc&s=2tFeNUDaZwZS1WIZKXz5Ead6wNmrxFB3n4Ajz8uu-dw&e=> Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.qsl.net&d=DwQFAg&c=OCIEmEwdEq_aNlsP4fF3gFqSN-E3mlr2t9JcDdfOZag&r=imPL7_MWlqUt4mUSmcrrMnd8cjgTGP0QkPfuSUyyYjY&m=Go-WDnT44ktbg8fFBGs4NY20Xlfto-4TkrE_f3xvXrc&s=ly6sfDRPiJ3qj5tGD-CrdqpYGP7qVr_9D6WrvO5L_1c&e=> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.qsl.net_donate.html&d=DwQFAg&c=OCIEmEwdEq_aNlsP4fF3gFqSN-E3mlr2t9JcDdfOZag&r=imPL7_MWlqUt4mUSmcrrMnd8cjgTGP0QkPfuSUyyYjY&m=Go-WDnT44ktbg8fFBGs4NY20Xlfto-4TkrE_f3xvXrc&s=wDjzfZ9miaDt-TbhU5uTI-xAFmiY1zQAWaF2SNwOhwk&e=> Message delivered to [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]
Chuck, KE9UW
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Chuck,
If you want the VFO switching capability with the up and down buttons on the MH4, you will want the jumpers installed for the UP and DN function on the header also. If you look at the KSB2 manual, it just says to install all 8 jumpers for the MH2 (and now MH4). I do know some ops who have built an adapter to fit the 8-pin mic connector and is placed in between the mic and connector. They then wire the adapter to match the mic they are using. Probably more work than just removing the Front Panel though ;-) 73, Dave, W8FGU On 6/12/2020 12:07:06 PM, "hawley, charles j jr" <[hidden email]> wrote: >Ah so... >That's going to take some disassembly. Disconnect the battery. Remove >the RTC and unscrew the control board and pull the front panel off I >guess. I just looked and need to install the 5 volt jumper and then the >resistor. I finished building this 10 years ago so I had to get out the >assembly manual 🙂 >Thanks for the info, > >73, > >Chuck Hawley > [hidden email] > > Amateur Radio, KE9UW > aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles > >-------------------------------------------------------------------------------- >From: Dave Van Wallaghen <[hidden email]> >Sent: Friday, June 12, 2020 9:11 AM >To: hawley, charles j jr <[hidden email]>; Elecraft Reflector ><[hidden email]> >Subject: Re: [Elecraft] MH4 Mic on a K2? > >Hi Charles, > >Bias for the MH4 (and previous MH2) mic is provided by placing a 5.6k >resistor between pin 1 and 6 on the mic connector of the K2. > >Most of us just solder the resistor to those pins on the back of the >mic connector on the Front Panel Board. My MH4 came with a small >envelope that contained a 5.6k resistor and 8 2-pin jumpers for the mic >config header. The UP and DN buttons on the MH4 switch between VFO A >and VFO B on the K2. It switches bands on the K3, KX3 and KX2. > >73, >Dave, W8FGU > >On June 12, 2020 10:02:15 "hawley, charles j jr" ><[hidden email]> wrote: > >>The Elecraft manual says the condenser type MH4 mic is acceptable for >>use on the K2, but I don't see any bias for it in the K2 or SSB2 >>schematics. I never had a mic for the K2 so I thought I'd get the MH4 >>and maybe use it on my K3s as well. >>Am I missing something? Is there bias for it on the K2? >> >>Chuck Hawley >> [hidden email] >> >> Amateur Radio, KE9UW >> aka Jack, BMW Motorcycles >>______________________________________________________________ >>Elecraft mailing list >>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mailman.qth.net_mailman_listinfo_elecraft&d=DwQFAg&c=OCIEmEwdEq_aNlsP4fF3gFqSN-E3mlr2t9JcDdfOZag&r=imPL7_MWlqUt4mUSmcrrMnd8cjgTGP0QkPfuSUyyYjY&m=Go-WDnT44ktbg8fFBGs4NY20Xlfto-4TkrE_f3xvXrc&s=2exrJpST0D7alfJA-3Ddelwi_AR-0qSndqbTbLQgUfQ&e=> >>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__mailman.qth.net_mmfaq.htm&d=DwQFAg&c=OCIEmEwdEq_aNlsP4fF3gFqSN-E3mlr2t9JcDdfOZag&r=imPL7_MWlqUt4mUSmcrrMnd8cjgTGP0QkPfuSUyyYjY&m=Go-WDnT44ktbg8fFBGs4NY20Xlfto-4TkrE_f3xvXrc&s=2tFeNUDaZwZS1WIZKXz5Ead6wNmrxFB3n4Ajz8uu-dw&e=> >>Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.qsl.net&d=DwQFAg&c=OCIEmEwdEq_aNlsP4fF3gFqSN-E3mlr2t9JcDdfOZag&r=imPL7_MWlqUt4mUSmcrrMnd8cjgTGP0QkPfuSUyyYjY&m=Go-WDnT44ktbg8fFBGs4NY20Xlfto-4TkrE_f3xvXrc&s=ly6sfDRPiJ3qj5tGD-CrdqpYGP7qVr_9D6WrvO5L_1c&e=> >>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.qsl.net_donate.html&d=DwQFAg&c=OCIEmEwdEq_aNlsP4fF3gFqSN-E3mlr2t9JcDdfOZag&r=imPL7_MWlqUt4mUSmcrrMnd8cjgTGP0QkPfuSUyyYjY&m=Go-WDnT44ktbg8fFBGs4NY20Xlfto-4TkrE_f3xvXrc&s=wDjzfZ9miaDt-TbhU5uTI-xAFmiY1zQAWaF2SNwOhwk&e=> >>Message delivered to [hidden email] > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email] |
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