K3 RTC - Battery and more
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Well, found that the battery that I used on the RTC backup was NG.
Measured it and it didn't have any B+. I had another of the same size and now the battery backup works FB! Also, as far as time keeping, it seems my radio looses about 1 second each min. In 1 hour 16 min. it was off by 1 min. 12 sec. compared to WWV on 5Mhz. Strange thing is, it must be looking at the RTC chip for an update of the time when ever you change bands. Change bands and it 'resyncs' to the WWV time that the RTC chip must be keeping. Seems that the 'software' clock is the 'looser'. Now that I have a good battery for the RTC chip the RTC keeps good time! Guess it might be something for the 'to do' list to check on the clock software in the "ROS" - Radios operating system... :) 73 - Arnie KA0NCR K3-100 #185 ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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I'm kinda lost here, I thought this thread started with the K3 clock losing
time - what's RTC? - Is it Real Time Clock, in which case, that's what it is. If you meant Radio Time Control, that it is not afaik. So I don't believe this rig is picking up time signals from anywhere? Someone put me right here if I've got this wrong? My K3 clock, which I set about 18 hrs ago and the rig has been off for about the last 12 of those, has lost about 4 seconds. Now I don't think that's particularly good, even if its based on simple electronics with no kind of sync with network etc. I presume Eric or Wayne will see this post sometime and so they will be aware, but I'm not about to worry them or me about it right now, they have enough on their plates. 73 de M0XDF, K3 # 174, HexKey # 375 On 24/1/08 19:30, "Arnie Grubbs" <[hidden email]> sent: > Well, found that the battery that I used on the RTC backup was NG. > Measured it and it didn't have any B+. I had another of the same > size and now the battery backup works FB! > > > Also, as far as time keeping, it seems my radio looses about > 1 second each min. In 1 hour 16 min. it was off by 1 min. 12 sec. > compared to WWV on 5Mhz. > > Strange thing is, it must be looking at the RTC chip for an update > of the time when ever you change bands. Change bands and it 'resyncs' > to the WWV time that the RTC chip must be keeping. Seems that the > 'software' clock is the 'looser'. Now that I have a good battery for > the RTC chip the RTC keeps good time! > > Guess it might be something for the 'to do' list to check on the > clock software in the "ROS" - Radios operating system... :) > > 73 - Arnie KA0NCR > K3-100 #185 The universe is like a safe to which there is a combination. But the combination is locked up in the safe. -Peter De Vries, editor, novelist (1910-1993) _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: K3 RTC - Battery and more - software and RTC chip time.
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Hello David, Let me try to clear up what I was trying to say.. This is what I think is happening: The radio has a Real Time Clock chip that keeps track of the time when the radio is powered off. From what I see, the radio will 'read' that chip to find out what the time is when it powers up. After that, it looks like the radio "keeps time" all by itself using internal software routines... This is is what I gather from watching the time while messing with the radio. It seems that it does not look at the real time clock chip again, UNLESS you change bands, or power off and on again. Then it looks like it reloads the software clock from the real time clock chip. This can be seen by the clock display on the radio "catching up" to the correct time in the RTC when I change bands. My radio time display will at that instance, jump a number of seconds (or min.) and will be back "on correct time" again, until it slowly drifts off again. ------- > My K3 clock, which I set about 18 hrs ago and the rig has been off for about > the last 12 of those, has lost about 4 seconds. -------- >From what I read of your statement, you let it sit for 12 hour powered down and then turned it back on. IF that is what you did, it read the RTC chip time at power up, and thats what you were seeing on the display. So the battery backed up time chip was only off 4 seconds in 18 hours. Thats probably different than what you would see if you had left the radio run, and didn't change the band you were listening to. IF you were to just let the radio sit for 12 hours powered up, say, listening to a time standard broadcast, and then come back and compare at the end of the period to the broadcast, I bet you would see a larger time difference. On mine, I see a difference after only a few min. When I change bands, the radio corrects the time display by reading from the RTC chip again... as it will jump many seconds in an instant. Hope that helps to try to explain what I see going on with my radio. 73 - Arnie KA0NCR --- "David Ferrington, M0XDF" <[hidden email]> wrote: > I'm kinda lost here, I thought this thread started with the K3 clock losing > time - what's RTC? - Is it Real Time Clock, in which case, that's what it > is. If you meant Radio Time Control, that it is not afaik. > So I don't believe this rig is picking up time signals from anywhere? > > Someone put me right here if I've got this wrong? > > My K3 clock, which I set about 18 hrs ago and the rig has been off for about > the last 12 of those, has lost about 4 seconds. > > Now I don't think that's particularly good, even if its based on simple > electronics with no kind of sync with network etc. > > I presume Eric or Wayne will see this post sometime and so they will be > aware, but I'm not about to worry them or me about it right now, they have > enough on their plates. > > 73 de M0XDF, K3 # 174, HexKey # 375 > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Arnie Grubbs
OK understand now and you are correct - see embedded comments ...
On 25/1/08 11:01, "Arnie Grubbs" <[hidden email]> sent: > The radio has a Real Time Clock chip that keeps track of the > time when the radio is powered off. From what I see, the > radio will 'read' that chip to find out what the time is when it powers up. > After that, it looks like the radio "keeps time" all by itself using internal > software routines... > This is is what I gather from watching the time while messing > with the radio. It seems that it does not look at the real time clock chip > again, > UNLESS you change bands, or power off and on again. Right, yes I see that now, in fact, it drifts out quite a lot if you don't change band. Since I posted, and had left it on one band, it had drifted 30 seconds in 1 hour. >> My K3 clock, which I set about 18 hrs ago and the rig has been off for about >> the last 12 of those, has lost about 4 seconds. > From what I read of your statement, you let it sit for 12 hour powered down > and then turned it back on. IF that is what you did, it read the RTC chip time > at power up, and thats what you were seeing on the display. So the battery > backed up time chip was only off 4 seconds in 18 hours. Thats probably > different than what you would see if you left the radio run, and didn't change > the band you were listening to. Yes, that's what I did - 4 secs for an RTC is not good. Are you positive it reads time on power up? I'll run more tests over the next few days. I'm using NTP to get time and setting my clock to that (with someone reading the time as I set it, so good to within a second). I have just set it, lets see what it is around this time tommorrow. Thanks for the explanation. -- The problem with being sure that God is on your side is that you can't change your mind, because God sure isn't going to change His. -Roger Ebert, film-critic (1942- ) _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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Well, after 22 hours, the last 15 of which, its been off, the K3 RTC has
lost 4 seconds. That seems rather high and was the same value yesterday for 18 hours, its possible that the RTC is not losing that much time, but the reading of it is incorrect in some way. If I can leave it off for 48 hours, I'll see if it looses 8 seconds. Very difficult to leave this rig off :) Do you think a low voltage battery might account for the loss? Seems more likely it works or doesn't, but I'm just wondering. I'll have to get the cover off and check. I confirm it does read the RTC and update the cpu time at power on. On 25/1/08 11:22, "David Ferrington, M0XDF" <[hidden email]> sent: [snip] >>> My K3 clock, which I set about 18 hrs ago and the rig has been off for about >>> the last 12 of those, has lost about 4 seconds. [snip] > Yes, that's what I did - 4 secs for an RTC is not good. Are you positive it > reads time on power up? I'll run more tests over the next few days. > I'm using NTP to get time and setting my clock to that (with someone reading > the time as I set it, so good to within a second). I have just set it, lets > see what it is around this time tommorrow. -- I know that you believe that you understood what you think I said, but I am not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant. - Robert McCloskey, State Department spokesman (attributed) _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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