K3 RTTY setup with MMTTY

[Julius Fazekas n2wn]

I'm running into problems interfacing my K3 with MMTTY on transmit.

First, I'm unclear as to whether a keying interface (simple NPN 1K combo) is needed for the FSK IN and DTR? I am guessing that FSK IN comes from the TXD line out from the computer and DTR from the DTR out.

Then under the COM Port Radio Command, I'm not sure what needs to be specified. Do we chose Kenwood (like N1MM in the old days) or does it require something special?

How easy is it to damage the RS-232 / AUX I/O on the K3, if one makes the wrong connection?

Frustrated in Tennessee,
Julius

Julius Fazekas
N2WN

Tennessee Contest Group
TnQP http://www.tnqp.org/

Elecraft K2/100 #4455
Elecraft K3/100 #366
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[Don Wilhelm-4]

Julius,

It will be easiest to use MMTTY in its AFSK mode.  Connect the soundcard
line-in and line out to the K3 line-out and line-in jacks.  Connect a
serial cable from the computer to the K3 RS-232 connector and set the K3
for DTR = PTT.  Set MMTTY to use the COM port that you have connected
and you should be good to go with the K3 in DATA A or AFSK mode.

If you prefer to use FSK, you will have more work to do.  You will have
to translate the RS-232 level signal (-15v to +15v) to a TTL level (0v
to +5v).  The K3 can be damaged by applying the RS-232 levels to the FSK
input.  You can use the transistor/diode/resistor scheme to activate
PTT, but you can also use the method described above.

73,
Don W3FPR

Julius Fazekas wrote:

> I'm running into problems interfacing my K3 with MMTTY on transmit.
>
> First, I'm unclear as to whether a keying interface (simple NPN 1K combo) is needed for the FSK IN and DTR? I am guessing that FSK IN comes from the TXD line out from the computer and DTR from the DTR out.
>
> Then under the COM Port Radio Command, I'm not sure what needs to be specified. Do we chose Kenwood (like N1MM in the old days) or does it require something special?
>
> How easy is it to damage the RS-232 / AUX I/O on the K3, if one makes the wrong connection?
>
> Frustrated in Tennessee,
> Julius
>
> Julius Fazekas
> N2WN
>  
>

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[Joe Subich, W4TV-4]

> First, I'm unclear as to whether a keying interface (simple
> NPN 1K combo) is needed for the FSK IN and DTR? I am guessing
> that FSK IN comes from the TXD line out from the computer and
> DTR from the DTR out.

If you want to use MMTTY in the FSK mode, make two NPN/1K
interfaces.  Connect one from TxD to the FSK input on the
ACC jack and connect the other from DTR to the PTT input
on the ACC jack.  That puts everything on one cable/plug.

> Then under the COM Port Radio Command, I'm not sure what
> needs to be specified. Do we chose Kenwood (like N1MM in the
> old days) or does it require something special?

Yes, "Kenwood" works with MMTTY 1.65.  MMTTY 1.66G calls the
protocol Kenwood/Elecraft to eliminate any confusion.  Do not
check either 'flow control' or DTR/RTS PTT.  Since you will
be using FSK, set the "Frequency offset" to "None" since the
K3 reports the mark frequency (in FSK D or AFSK A).

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV
 

 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Julius Fazekas
> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 11:16 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3 RTTY setup with MMTTY
>
>
> I'm running into problems interfacing my K3 with MMTTY on transmit.
>
> First, I'm unclear as to whether a keying interface (simple
> NPN 1K combo) is needed for the FSK IN and DTR? I am guessing
> that FSK IN comes from the TXD line out from the computer and
> DTR from the DTR out.
>
> Then under the COM Port Radio Command, I'm not sure what
> needs to be specified. Do we chose Kenwood (like N1MM in the
> old days) or does it require something special?
>
> How easy is it to damage the RS-232 / AUX I/O on the K3, if
> one makes the wrong connection?
>
> Frustrated in Tennessee,
> Julius
>
> Julius Fazekas
> N2WN
>
> Tennessee Contest Group
> TnQP http://www.tnqp.org/
>
> Elecraft K2/100 #4455
> Elecraft K3/100 #366 _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

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[Richard Ferch]

Julius,

If you want to use FSK without giving up radio control you will need two
serial ports - one for radio control and one for FSK keying. You cannot do
FSK on the same port as radio control (unless you are using the KY; software
command, which the vast majority of software, including MMTTY, does not
support). If the port you use for FSK is a USB-to-serial adapter rather than
a true serial port, you will need to use the EXTFSK plugin for FSK.

In MMTTY you must configure a serial port for PTT (different from the radio
control port) in order to use FSK. However, you don't actually have to use
this port for PTT; you can configure it, enable it for FSK, and then just
not connect aany PTT line to DTR or RTS. MMTTY gives you two other
alternatives: you can do PTT either by software control or by keying DTR and
RTS on the radio control port.

If you use MMTTY's PTT port for FSK and/or PTT, both FSK and PTT will
require keying transistors, because these inputs on the K3's ACC connector
are TTL-level, not RS232 (FSK from TxD via a keying transistor to pin 5, PTT
from either DTR or RTS via a keying transistor to pin 4). If you choose to
do PTT using the radio control port (either DTR or RTS), you will not need a
keying transistor for this line, because this is an RS232-level input on the
K3.

For the radio command protocol, just choose Kenwood.

The K3's AFSK A mode is operationally equivalent to FSK D, but does not
require an FSK keying circuit; instead, you need an audio cable between the
sound card's line out and the radio's LINE IN jack.

73,
Rich VE3KI

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[Joe Subich, W4TV-4]

> In the K3 menu, PTT-KEY should be set to DTR-off? or?

If you are going to do FSK and PTT from the FSK port,
you can set PTT-KEY to OFF-OFF.  

If you want PTT from the CAT port for other reasons (other
software) set DTR/RTS in MMTTY's "Radio Command" dialog to
PTT and set the K3 PTT-KEY to RTS-OFF (RTS is more commonly
used for PTT by other software - e.g. N1MM Logger,
WriteLog, etc.).

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Julius Fazekas [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 2:47 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 RTTY setup with MMTTY
>
>
> Thanks Joe!
>
> First think I will do is get the update, that will save a
> lil' confusion.
>
> In the K3 menu, PTT-KEY should be set to DTR-off? or?
>
> Looks like I didn't damage the K3 I/O, was sweating that, but
> it was a bad setting.
>
> Cheers,
> Julius
>
> Julius Fazekas
> N2WN
>
> Tennessee Contest Group
> TnQP http://www.tnqp.org/
>
> Elecraft K2/100 #4455
> Elecraft K3/100 #366
>
>
> --- On Sun, 1/4/09, Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > From: Joe Subich, W4TV <[hidden email]>
> > Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 RTTY setup with MMTTY
> > To: [hidden email], [hidden email]
> > Date: Sunday, January 4, 2009, 1:35 PM
> > > First, I'm unclear as to whether a keying interface
> > (simple
> > > NPN 1K combo) is needed for the FSK IN and DTR? I am
> > guessing
> > > that FSK IN comes from the TXD line out from the
> > computer and
> > > DTR from the DTR out.
> >
> > If you want to use MMTTY in the FSK mode, make two NPN/1K
> > interfaces.  Connect one from TxD to the FSK input on the
> > ACC jack and connect the other from DTR to the PTT input
> > on the ACC jack.  That puts everything on one cable/plug.
> >
> > > Then under the COM Port Radio Command, I'm not
> > sure what
> > > needs to be specified. Do we chose Kenwood (like N1MM
> > in the
> > > old days) or does it require something special?
> >
> > Yes, "Kenwood" works with MMTTY 1.65.  MMTTY
> > 1.66G calls the
> > protocol Kenwood/Elecraft to eliminate any confusion.  Do
> > not
> > check either 'flow control' or DTR/RTS PTT.  Since
> > you will
> > be using FSK, set the "Frequency offset" to
> > "None" since the
> > K3 reports the mark frequency (in FSK D or AFSK A).
> >
> > 73,
> >
> >    ... Joe, W4TV
> >  
> >
> >  
> >
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [hidden email]
> > > [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of
> > Julius Fazekas
> > > Sent: Sunday, January 04, 2009 11:16 AM
> > > To: [hidden email]
> > > Subject: [Elecraft] K3 RTTY setup with MMTTY
> > >
> > >
> > > I'm running into problems interfacing my K3 with
> > MMTTY on transmit.
> > >
> > > First, I'm unclear as to whether a keying
> > interface (simple
> > > NPN 1K combo) is needed for the FSK IN and DTR? I am
> > guessing
> > > that FSK IN comes from the TXD line out from the
> > computer and
> > > DTR from the DTR out.
> > >
> > > Then under the COM Port Radio Command, I'm not
> > sure what
> > > needs to be specified. Do we chose Kenwood (like N1MM
> > in the
> > > old days) or does it require something special?
> > >
> > > How easy is it to damage the RS-232 / AUX I/O on the
> > K3, if
> > > one makes the wrong connection?
> > >
> > > Frustrated in Tennessee,
> > > Julius
> > >
> > > Julius Fazekas
> > > N2WN
> > >
> > > Tennessee Contest Group
> > > TnQP http://www.tnqp.org/
> > >
> > > Elecraft K2/100 #4455
> > > Elecraft K3/100 #366
> > _______________________________________________
> > > Elecraft mailing list
> > > Post to: [hidden email]
> > > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> > > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> > >  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   
> > >
> > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> > > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

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[Ralph]

I only use one serial port here running FSK/MMTTY under N1MM and it controls my K3 perfect (FSK D).

 

73,

Ralph K1ZZI

 

Date: Sun, 4 Jan 2009 14:33:08 -0500
From: "Richard Ferch" <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 RTTY setup with MMTTY
To: <[hidden email]>
Message-ID: <[hidden email]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Julius,

If you want to use FSK without giving up radio control you will need two
serial ports - one for radio control and one for FSK keying. You cannot do
FSK on the same port as radio control (unless you are using the KY; software
command, which the vast majority of software, including MMTTY, does not
support). If the port you use for FSK is a USB-to-serial adapter rather than
a true serial port, you will need to use the EXTFSK plugin for FSK.

In MMTTY you must configure a serial port for PTT (different from the radio
control port) in order to use FSK. However, you don't actually have to use
this port for PTT; you can configure it, enable it for FSK, and then just
not connect aany PTT line to DTR or RTS. MMTTY gives you two other
alternatives: you can do PTT either by software control or by keying DTR and
RTS on the radio control port.

If you use MMTTY's PTT port for FSK and/or PTT, both FSK and PTT will
require keying transistors, because these inputs on the K3's ACC connector
are TTL-level, not RS232 (FSK from TxD via a keying transistor to pin 5, PTT
from either DTR or RTS via a keying transistor to pin 4). If you choose to
do PTT using the radio control port (either DTR or RTS), you will not need a
keying transistor for this line, because this is an RS232-level input on the
K3.

For the radio command protocol, just choose Kenwood.

The K3's AFSK A mode is operationally equivalent to FSK D, but does not
require an FSK keying circuit; instead, you need an audio cable between the
sound card's line out and the radio's LINE IN jack.

73,
Rich VE3KI

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[Richard Ferch]

Ralph K1ZZI wrote:

> I only use one serial port here running FSK/MMTTY under N1MM and it
controls my K3 perfect (FSK D).

What do you mean by "controls", Ralph? Can you change frequency from the
computer? Does N1MM have frequency information from the radio?

If so, I would love to know how you are getting the FSK data to be
transmitted to the radio without using another port (either another serial
port, or maybe a parallel port using EXTFSK).

If not, and the only radio control you have is PTT and FSK keying (but no
frequency control), then you are missing out on some of N1MM Logger's best
capabilities and features. The second sentence in the N1MM user manual is:
"You really won't be impressed without the radio connected" - that's how
important the software's author thinks those features are.

73,
Rich VE3KI

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[w7aqk]

Hi Richard and All,

O.K.  Since I'm just getting into this digital stuff, I'm not afraid to ask
a dumb question.   Does what you say mean that I cannot use Ham Radio
Deluxe, plus its associated program digital master 780, to both control my
K3, as well as send and receive digital modes like PSK31 or RTTY?  I think i
can receive these modes with just the one serial port connection, but not
sure about sending.

Dave W7AQK


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Ferch" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 RTTY setup with MMTTY

> Ralph K1ZZI wrote:
>
>> I only use one serial port here running FSK/MMTTY under N1MM and it
> controls my K3 perfect (FSK D).
>
> What do you mean by "controls", Ralph? Can you change frequency from the
> computer? Does N1MM have frequency information from the radio?
>
> If so, I would love to know how you are getting the FSK data to be
> transmitted to the radio without using another port (either another serial
> port, or maybe a parallel port using EXTFSK).
>
> If not, and the only radio control you have is PTT and FSK keying (but no
> frequency control), then you are missing out on some of N1MM Logger's best
> capabilities and features. The second sentence in the N1MM user manual is:
> "You really won't be impressed without the radio connected" - that's how
> important the software's author thinks those features are.
>
> 73,
> Rich VE3KI
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com 

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[Richard Ferch]

Hi Dave,

For sound card digital modes other than RTTY, you use the K3's DATA A mode.
This does not require a serial port connection for keying - it transmits
signals based on the audio from the sound card. For RTTY, you can do AFSK
RTTY the same way, i.e. with an audio connection, although there is a
different data sub-mode on the K3 called AFSK A that is specifically
optimized for RTTY. Both of these modes will work with a single serial port
connected to the radio's RS-232 jack for radio control, plus a pair of audio
cables between the sound card LINE IN and LINE OUT jacks and the K3's LINE
OUT and LINE IN jacks. That's all the interface you need.

If you insist on using FSK for RTTY instead of AFSK, then yes, you need
another port to do your FSK keying from, and unlike CW this port cannot be
the same one that you use for radio control (frequencies, etc.). You will
most likely need a one-transistor switch to convert the output from the port
to TTL level for input to the K3's ACC connector.

For getting started in digital modes, you can forget all about FSK and just
get your feet wet with AFSK. AFSK RTTY is perfectly compatible with FSK
RTTY, so you will not be missing anything.

73,
Rich VE3KI


-----Original Message-----
From: Dave Yarnes [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: January 6, 2009 1:50 AM
To: Richard Ferch; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 RTTY setup with MMTTY


Hi Richard and All,

O.K.  Since I'm just getting into this digital stuff, I'm not afraid to ask
a dumb question.   Does what you say mean that I cannot use Ham Radio
Deluxe, plus its associated program digital master 780, to both control my
K3, as well as send and receive digital modes like PSK31 or RTTY?  I think i

can receive these modes with just the one serial port connection, but not
sure about sending.

Dave W7AQK


----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Ferch" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 7:12 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 RTTY setup with MMTTY

> Ralph K1ZZI wrote:
>
>> I only use one serial port here running FSK/MMTTY under N1MM and it
> controls my K3 perfect (FSK D).
>
> What do you mean by "controls", Ralph? Can you change frequency from
> the computer? Does N1MM have frequency information from the radio?
>
> If so, I would love to know how you are getting the FSK data to be
> transmitted to the radio without using another port (either another
> serial port, or maybe a parallel port using EXTFSK).
>
> If not, and the only radio control you have is PTT and FSK keying (but
> no frequency control), then you are missing out on some of N1MM
> Logger's best capabilities and features. The second sentence in the
> N1MM user manual is: "You really won't be impressed without the radio
> connected" - that's how important the software's author thinks those
> features are.
>
> 73,
> Rich VE3KI
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

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[Joe Subich, W4TV-4]

> If you insist on using FSK for RTTY instead of AFSK, then
> yes, you need another port to do your FSK keying from, and
> unlike CW this port cannot be the same one that you use for
> radio control (frequencies, etc.). You will most likely need
> a one-transistor switch to convert the output from the port
> to TTL level for input to the K3's ACC connector.

If you want to do FSK you will need software other than
Ham Radio Deluxe and DM780 since they do not support FSK.

73,

   ... Joe, W4TV
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Richard Ferch
> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 7:31 PM
> To: 'Dave Yarnes'; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 RTTY setup with MMTTY
>
>
> Hi Dave,
>
> For sound card digital modes other than RTTY, you use the
> K3's DATA A mode. This does not require a serial port
> connection for keying - it transmits signals based on the
> audio from the sound card. For RTTY, you can do AFSK RTTY the
> same way, i.e. with an audio connection, although there is a
> different data sub-mode on the K3 called AFSK A that is
> specifically optimized for RTTY. Both of these modes will
> work with a single serial port connected to the radio's
> RS-232 jack for radio control, plus a pair of audio cables
> between the sound card LINE IN and LINE OUT jacks and the
> K3's LINE OUT and LINE IN jacks. That's all the interface you need.
>
> If you insist on using FSK for RTTY instead of AFSK, then
> yes, you need another port to do your FSK keying from, and
> unlike CW this port cannot be the same one that you use for
> radio control (frequencies, etc.). You will most likely need
> a one-transistor switch to convert the output from the port
> to TTL level for input to the K3's ACC connector.
>
> For getting started in digital modes, you can forget all
> about FSK and just get your feet wet with AFSK. AFSK RTTY is
> perfectly compatible with FSK RTTY, so you will not be
> missing anything.
>
> 73,
> Rich VE3KI
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Dave Yarnes [mailto:[hidden email]]
> Sent: January 6, 2009 1:50 AM
> To: Richard Ferch; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 RTTY setup with MMTTY
>
>
> Hi Richard and All,
>
> O.K.  Since I'm just getting into this digital stuff, I'm not
> afraid to ask
> a dumb question.   Does what you say mean that I cannot use Ham Radio
> Deluxe, plus its associated program digital master 780, to
> both control my
> K3, as well as send and receive digital modes like PSK31 or
> RTTY?  I think i
>
> can receive these modes with just the one serial port
> connection, but not
> sure about sending.
>
> Dave W7AQK
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Ferch" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Monday, January 05, 2009 7:12 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 RTTY setup with MMTTY
>
>
> > Ralph K1ZZI wrote:
> >
> >> I only use one serial port here running FSK/MMTTY under N1MM and it
> > controls my K3 perfect (FSK D).
> >
> > What do you mean by "controls", Ralph? Can you change frequency from
> > the computer? Does N1MM have frequency information from the radio?
> >
> > If so, I would love to know how you are getting the FSK data to be
> > transmitted to the radio without using another port (either another
> > serial port, or maybe a parallel port using EXTFSK).
> >
> > If not, and the only radio control you have is PTT and FSK
> keying (but
> > no frequency control), then you are missing out on some of N1MM
> > Logger's best capabilities and features. The second sentence in the
> > N1MM user manual is: "You really won't be impressed without
> the radio
> > connected" - that's how important the software's author
> thinks those
> > features are.
> >
> > 73,
> > Rich VE3KI
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Post to: [hidden email]
> > You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
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_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com