Elecraft

K3 S-Meter

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Tobyp

K3 S-Meter

>>...I would like to see the RF gain ride the signals instead of deflecting. W4CAK wrote>>> Ralph, ve7Xf wrote,I don't understand.
The S-meter usually indicates the AGC voltage.
I like it the way it is.

Ralph, VE7XF
Ralph, I probably did not phrase that properly. I would like to see the RF gain removed from affecting the S-Meter in any way. Let us see the signals on the s-meter and at the same time have a very quiet copy on the received weaker signal. Every one wants a signal report,but if you have the RF gain up you dont see his signal in order to give a honest report. . Toby W4CAK
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Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 S-Meter

On the contrary, one can give an honest report even with the RF gain
reduced (but only under certain circumstances).
If one has reduced the RF gain to the point (just) where the S-meter
deflection is at the noise floor, then the S-meter readings should still
be valid - you are simply reducing the receiver gain to keep from
hearing the noise.

For instance, if your local noise floor is S-3, then reducing the RF
gain so the S-meter reads a low of S-3, you will find an S-4 signal
still " moving the meter" at S-4 - he is 1 S-unit higher than your noise
level. Would you want to report that signal strength at S-1 (if the RF
gain did not increase the S-meter reading) or report him to be a
realistic S-4.

Each to his own, but that is the way I see the picture.

Yes, reducing the RF gain to greater than the band noise level will skew
the S-meter readings, but I do not use the RF gain control for that, I
reduce the gain just to the point where the S-meter matches the band
noise. Signals stronger than that band noise will still be indicating
at the level indicated on the S-meter.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/4/2013 7:22 PM, Toby Pennington wrote:

>
>
>>> ...I would like to see the RF gain ride the signals instead of deflecting. W4CAK wrote>>> Ralph, ve7Xf wrote,I don't understand.
> The S-meter usually indicates the AGC voltage.
> I like it the way it is.
>
> Ralph, VE7XF
> Ralph, I probably did not phrase that properly. I would like to see the RF gain removed from affecting the S-Meter in any way. Let us see the signals on the s-meter and at the same time have a very quiet copy on the received weaker signal. Every one wants a signal report,but if you have the RF gain up you dont see his signal in order to give a honest report. . Toby W4CAK
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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N5GE

Re: K3 S-Meter

In reply to this post by Tobyp

RST is not a reflection of S-METER readings at all. It is a means of
describing the quality of a received signal, not just the strength.

Furthermore Amateur radio manufacturers (not Elecraft) are notorious
for not following the 50 microvolts = S9 rule, so S-meter readings
are meaningless as measure of signal quality in most cases.

The link below describes the RST system for signal quality reports.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RST_code

The folks who defined the RST system probably didn't have S-Meters on
their receivers.

73,
Tom
Amateur Radio Operator N5GE
ARRL Lifetime Member
QCWA Lifetime Member

On Mon, 4 Mar 2013 16:22:07 -0800, "Toby Pennington"
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>>>...I would like to see the RF gain ride the signals instead of deflecting. W4CAK wrote>>> Ralph, ve7Xf wrote,I don't understand.
>The S-meter usually indicates the AGC voltage.
>I like it the way it is.
>
>Ralph, VE7XF
>Ralph, I probably did not phrase that properly. I would like to see the RF gain removed from affecting the S-Meter in any way. Let us see the signals on the s-meter and at the same time have a very quiet copy on the received weaker signal. Every one wants a signal report,but if you have the RF gain up you dont see his signal in order to give a honest report. . Toby W4CAK
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

drewko

Re: K3 S-Meter

In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4

Don,

I always seem to have my RF gain adjusted by ear to below where the
s-meter will deflect on a particular signal. So I will most always
have to readjust the gain to see an s-meter reading. The RF gain can
be adjusted much lower than the signal's meter deflection point but
still have an audible signal. A moderate strength signal can still be
heard when the RF gain has been turned down to the point where the
s-meter incicates s9+40 db.

The more I think about it the less useful it seems to have the meter
deflect upward with a lowered RF gain setting. Does anyone find this
action useful for tuning in a signal?

I know that I would be fiddling around with the RF gain control a lot
less if the s-meter display was not affected by the gain control. Why
not make the s-meter "absolute mode", which is independent of the
attenuation setting, also independent of the RF gain control? That
seems more consistent and logical to me.

73,
Drew
AF2Z

On Mon, 04 Mar 2013 19:55:32 -0500, you wrote:

>On the contrary, one can give an honest report even with the RF gain
>reduced (but only under certain circumstances).
>If one has reduced the RF gain to the point (just) where the S-meter
>deflection is at the noise floor, then the S-meter readings should still
>be valid - you are simply reducing the receiver gain to keep from
>hearing the noise.
>
>For instance, if your local noise floor is S-3, then reducing the RF
>gain so the S-meter reads a low of S-3, you will find an S-4 signal
>still " moving the meter" at S-4 - he is 1 S-unit higher than your noise
>level. Would you want to report that signal strength at S-1 (if the RF
>gain did not increase the S-meter reading) or report him to be a
>realistic S-4.
>
>Each to his own, but that is the way I see the picture.
>
>Yes, reducing the RF gain to greater than the band noise level will skew
>the S-meter readings, but I do not use the RF gain control for that, I
>reduce the gain just to the point where the S-meter matches the band
>noise. Signals stronger than that band noise will still be indicating
>at the level indicated on the S-meter.
>
>73,
>Don W3FPR
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 S-Meter

Drew,

The S-meter operates off the AGC voltage and cannot be controlled in the
firmware. The result is that you will "have to put up with it" Most all
receivers have done the same thing in my 50+ years of hamming.

What I can say is is that if you reduce the RF Gain to eliminate the
band noise level, and the S-meter now reads (for example) S-3, a signal
that is now indicating S-9 should receive a proper report of S-6.

Actually, the S in he RST report is better given with respect to other
signals on the band rather than as an absolute number. Report the "S"
in the RST report with your ears rather than what the S-meter is
indicating. For those who have operated older receivers, that is the
way it is done. If you look at the "S" report in the ARRL handbook, it
will indicate that is a strength relative to other stations on the band
rather than relying on a meter reading. DXpedition and contest contacts
are always "599" just for expediency.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 3/6/2013 10:30 AM, drewko wrote:

> Don,
>
> I always seem to have my RF gain adjusted by ear to below where the
> s-meter will deflect on a particular signal. So I will most always
> have to readjust the gain to see an s-meter reading. The RF gain can
> be adjusted much lower than the signal's meter deflection point but
> still have an audible signal. A moderate strength signal can still be
> heard when the RF gain has been turned down to the point where the
> s-meter incicates s9+40 db.
>
> The more I think about it the less useful it seems to have the meter
> deflect upward with a lowered RF gain setting. Does anyone find this
> action useful for tuning in a signal?
>
> I know that I would be fiddling around with the RF gain control a lot
> less if the s-meter display was not affected by the gain control. Why
> not make the s-meter "absolute mode", which is independent of the
> attenuation setting, also independent of the RF gain control? That
> seems more consistent and logical to me.
>
>