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K3(S) QSK Operation

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K9MA

K3(S) QSK Operation

I just learned of the "37 wpm" problem with the original K3 (non-S),
which I have. I just verified that, indeed, above 37 wpm the cw gets
all messed up. This seems to occur whether in QSK (Break-in) or PTT
mode. The problem seems to go away, at least up to 50 wpm, in the QRQ mode.

A possibly related issue is the slow QSK recovery. In the normal QSK
mode, one can just hear between the dits at 16 wpm. In QRQ mode, that
goes all the way up to 18 wpm.

Does the new synthesizer ala K3S solve either of these problems? If not,
is there another solution?

73,

Scott K9MA

--
Scott K9MA

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Vic Rosenthal

Re: K3(S) QSK Operation

The new synthesizer solves the 37 wpm problem. It also seems to speed up
the QSK somewhat. I just tried it on my updated K3 and I seem to be able
to hear between dits at 25 to maybe 27 wpm.

73,
Victor, 4X6GP
Rehovot, Israel
Formerly K2VCO
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco/
On 6 Sep 2017 06:19, K9MA wrote:

> I just learned of the "37 wpm" problem with the original K3 (non-S),
> which I have. I just verified that, indeed, above 37 wpm the cw gets
> all messed up. This seems to occur whether in QSK (Break-in) or PTT
> mode. The problem seems to go away, at least up to 50 wpm, in the QRQ
> mode.
>
> A possibly related issue is the slow QSK recovery. In the normal QSK
> mode, one can just hear between the dits at 16 wpm. In QRQ mode, that
> goes all the way up to 18 wpm.
>
> Does the new synthesizer ala K3S solve either of these problems? If not,
> is there another solution?
>
> 73,
>
> Scott K9MA
>

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KENT TRIMBLE

Re: K3(S) QSK Operation

Even with the new synthesizers, the DSP noise reduction circuitry introduces latency in the QSK T/R switching, so be sure it is off for true high speed QSK.

Kent K9ZTV

> On Sep 5, 2017, at 10:29 PM, Victor Rosenthal 4X6GP <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> The new synthesizer solves the 37 wpm problem. It also seems to speed up the QSK somewhat. I just tried it on my updated K3 and I seem to be able to hear between dits at 25 to maybe 27 wpm.
>
> 73,
> Victor, 4X6GP
>

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Bob Wilson, N6TV

Re: K3(S) QSK Operation

In reply to this post by K9MA

The 37 WPM jitter issue is actually related to VOX timing (with either QSK
or semi-breakin). If you hold the PTT line closed while transmitting, via
a foot switch, software-controlled PTT, or an external keyer like a WinKey
with a PTT output, you can send as fast as you like, no CW jitter, but you
give up QSK and semi-breakin. This works whether you have VOX ON or OFF.

For more details, see this post from about 4 years ago:

http://lists.f5mzn.org/pipermail/support/2013-November/083384.html

The new KSYN3A synthesizer is highly recommended though, especially for QRQ
CW.

Also, what firmware version are you running?

73,
Bob, N6TV

On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 8:19 PM, K9MA <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I just learned of the "37 wpm" problem with the original K3 (non-S), which
> I have. I just verified that, indeed, above 37 wpm the cw gets all messed
> up. This seems to occur whether in QSK (Break-in) or PTT mode. The
> problem seems to go away, at least up to 50 wpm, in the QRQ mode.
>
> A possibly related issue is the slow QSK recovery. In the normal QSK
> mode, one can just hear between the dits at 16 wpm. In QRQ mode, that goes
> all the way up to 18 wpm.
>
> Does the new synthesizer ala K3S solve either of these problems? If not,
> is there another solution?
>
> 73,
>
> Scott K9MA
>
> --
> Scott K9MA
>
> [hidden email]
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

K9MA

Re: K3(S) QSK Operation

Thanks, Bob.

Yes, closing PTT allows sending at high speed. I rarely send at over 35
wpm, but I guess I can just turn on the PTT when I do. (I have an
actual switch for that purpose. Remember those?) Firmware is up to date.

It doesn't sound like the KSYN3A will solve this problem, though,
whatever its other merits. I've never found the phase noise of the
original to be an issue, so it's hard to justify the expense.

73,

Scott K9MA

On 9/6/2017 01:51, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:

> The 37 WPM jitter issue is actually related to VOX timing (with either
> QSK or semi-breakin). If you hold the PTT line closed while
> transmitting, via a foot switch, software-controlled PTT, or an
> external keyer like a WinKey with a PTT output, you can send as fast
> as you like, no CW jitter, but you give up QSK and semi-breakin. This
> works whether you have VOX ON or OFF.
>
> For more details, see this post from about 4 years ago:
>
> http://lists.f5mzn.org/pipermail/support/2013-November/083384.html
>
> The new KSYN3A synthesizer is highly recommended though, especially
> for QRQ CW.
>
> Also, what firmware version are you running?
>
> 73,
> Bob, N6TV
>
> On Tue, Sep 5, 2017 at 8:19 PM, K9MA <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> I just learned of the "37 wpm" problem with the original K3
> (non-S), which I have. I just verified that, indeed, above 37 wpm
> the cw gets all messed up. This seems to occur whether in QSK
> (Break-in) or PTT mode. The problem seems to go away, at least up
> to 50 wpm, in the QRQ mode.
>
> A possibly related issue is the slow QSK recovery. In the normal
> QSK mode, one can just hear between the dits at 16 wpm. In QRQ
> mode, that goes all the way up to 18 wpm.
>
> Does the new synthesizer ala K3S solve either of these problems?
> If not, is there another solution?
>
> 73,
>
> Scott K9MA
>
> --
> Scott K9MA
>
> [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> <http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> <http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm>
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
>

markmusick

Re: K3(S) QSK Operation

Yes, Scott the KSYN3A does solve some of the CW keying issues.

From the Elecraft website Spare Parts and Mods page:

FASTER CW BREAK-IN AND MORE ACCURATE CW ELEMENT TIMING is listed as one of the advantages of upgrading to the new SYN.

From the QST review:
The new synthesizer has its own microcontroller to offload the main microcontroller during transmit-receive switching, resulting in less jitter in transmit-receive timing, making high-speed CW cleaner.

Also, see KSYN3A FAQ on the Elecraft website order page.

7. How does the new synth affect CW operation? a. The KSYN3A switches faster than the KSYN3, which allows us to more precisely control CW timing. This means less "jitter" (timing variation) at high CW speeds. Many CW operators who had been using "QRQ" mode (CONFIG:CW QRQ=ON) for CW in the 35-60 WPM range will now be able to use normal CW mode (CW QRQ=OFF), meaning they no longer give up RIT and SPLIT when using fast CW. Receive recover times also improve. Note that we recently introduced a variation on CW break-in signal processing called "NEW QSK" (selected by tapping '3' in the CW WGHT menu entry). This eliminates audio T/R artifacts heard with the original algorithm ("OLD QSK"), at the expense of some slowing of receive recovery (by purging the DSP's "pipeline"). Installing a KSYN3A speeds up receive recovery for both the OLD and NEW QSK settings.

73,
Mark, WB9CIF

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of K9MA
Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 2:25 PM
To: Bob Wilson, N6TV <[hidden email]>; Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3(S) QSK Operation

Thanks, Bob.

Yes, closing PTT allows sending at high speed. I rarely send at over 35 wpm, but I guess I can just turn on the PTT when I do. (I have an actual switch for that purpose. Remember those?) Firmware is up to date.

It doesn't sound like the KSYN3A will solve this problem, though, whatever its other merits. I've never found the phase noise of the original to be an issue, so it's hard to justify the expense.

73,

Scott K9MA

On 9/6/2017 01:51, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote:

--
Scott K9MA

[hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
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Dale Boresz

Re: K3(S) QSK Operation

In reply to this post by K9MA

Scott,

The new KSYN3A most definitely DOES resolve the old jitter issue. I updated
my both of my synths as soon as the new ones were available, and even
without QRQ engaged, the cw timing is jitter free. If the new KSYN3A did
nothing else, I'd have still bought them just for the great cw performance.

73,

Dale - WA8SRA

On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 10:25 AM, K9MA <[hidden email]> wrote:

> ...
>

> It doesn't sound like the KSYN3A will solve this problem, though, whatever
> its other merits. I've never found the phase noise of the original to be
> an issue, so it's hard to justify the expense.
>
> 73,
>
> Scott K9MA
>
>
>

markmusick

Re: K3(S) QSK Operation

In reply to this post by K9MA

Scott, Bob and Everyone.
Also, note the article that Bob quotes is 4 years old. Pre K3S and pre KSYN3A upgrade of for K3s. It does not apply to a K3S or a K3 that has been upgraded with a KSYN3A.

73,
Mark, WB9CIF

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of K9MA
Sent: Wednesday, September 6, 2017 2:25 PM
To: Bob Wilson, N6TV <[hidden email]>; Elecraft Reflector <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3(S) QSK Operation

Thanks, Bob.

Yes, closing PTT allows sending at high speed. I rarely send at over 35 wpm, but I guess I can just turn on the PTT when I do. (I have an actual switch for that purpose. Remember those?) Firmware is up to date.

It doesn't sound like the KSYN3A will solve this problem, though, whatever its other merits. I've never found the phase noise of the original to be an issue, so it's hard to justify the expense.

73,

Scott K9MA

On 9/6/2017 01:51, Bob Wilson, N6TV wrote: