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K3: SO2R-in-a-box

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K1LI

K3: SO2R-in-a-box

Call me stubborn, but I believe that it should be possible to *make* the K3
and a logging program work together as "SO2R-in-a-box." This probably
involves external, switched bandpass filters, might involve an external
antenna switch and/or applying a "context swtich" via the logging program,
but it seems that it must be possible - and a good idea.

Has anyone made this work? Is anyone working on it? Is anyone interested in
starting up a new group (off this reflector) to work up ideas?

--
73 -- Brian -- K1LI
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Oliver Grossmann

Re: K3: SO2R-in-a-box

Hi Brian,

I had the same idea and was thinking building an automatic switch
contrilled by CAT. So you can get QRG of Main and Subreceiver and switch
antennas like wanted.
Even for diversity operation this would be helpfull.

If the Elecraftteam is able to manage TX and RX simultaniously this
would be very nice.
For the Filtering you would need preselector for Sub receiver and
TX-Bandpassfilter for Main receiver and TXpath.
For my point of view the K3 Frontpanel is large enough for contest
operation. Maybe the Filtering and the noise reduction of the Sub
receiver would be a bit long-winded.

73 Olli, DH2WQ
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Oliver Grossmann | DH2WQ | [hidden email]

Brian Machesney schrieb:

> Call me stubborn, but I believe that it should be possible to *make* the K3
> and a logging program work together as "SO2R-in-a-box." This probably
> involves external, switched bandpass filters, might involve an external
> antenna switch and/or applying a "context swtich" via the logging program,
> but it seems that it must be possible - and a good idea.
>
> Has anyone made this work? Is anyone working on it? Is anyone interested in
> starting up a new group (off this reflector) to work up ideas?
>
>

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Bill W4ZV

Re: K3: SO2R-in-a-box

In reply to this post by K1LI

Brian Machesney wrote

Call me stubborn, but I believe that it should be possible to *make* the K3
and a logging program work together as "SO2R-in-a-box." This probably
involves external, switched bandpass filters, might involve an external
antenna switch and/or applying a "context swtich" via the logging program,
but it seems that it must be possible - and a good idea.

Has anyone made this work? Is anyone working on it? Is anyone interested in
starting up a new group (off this reflector) to work up ideas?

True SO2R means you can listen on the second receiver while transmitting on the main radio receiver. That can NEVER happen with the K3 because both receivers are muted while transmitting. SO2V (Single Op 2 VFOs) is possible with N1MM as N1EU describes below:

http://n1eu.com/K3/K3_subrx.htm#SO2V_Operation

73, Bill

wayne burdick

Re: K3: SO2R-in-a-box

Administrator

It may be possible to do full duplex with the sub receiver on a
different band and antenna from main, since it's very well-shielded.
I'll give this a try. Some firmware changes will be required.

73,
Wayne

----
http://www.elecraft.com

On Oct 16, 2009, at 7:21 AM, Bill W4ZV <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
>
> Brian Machesney wrote:
>>
>> Call me stubborn, but I believe that it should be possible to
>> *make* the
>> K3
>> and a logging program work together as "SO2R-in-a-box." This probably
>> involves external, switched bandpass filters, might involve an
>> external
>> antenna switch and/or applying a "context swtich" via the logging
>> program,
>> but it seems that it must be possible - and a good idea.
>>
>> Has anyone made this work? Is anyone working on it? Is anyone
>> interested
>> in
>> starting up a new group (off this reflector) to work up ideas?
>>
>
> True SO2R means you can listen on the second receiver while
> transmitting on
> the main radio receiver. That can NEVER happen with the K3 because
> both
> receivers are muted while transmitting. SO2V (Single Op 2 VFOs) is
> possible
> with N1MM as N1EU describes below:
>
> http://n1eu.com/K3/K3_subrx.htm#SO2V_Operation
>
> 73, Bill
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-SO2R-in-a-box-tp3835713p3835807.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>
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Bill W4ZV

Re: K3: SO2R-in-a-box

wayne burdick wrote

It may be possible to do full duplex with the sub receiver on a
different band and antenna from main, since it's very well-shielded.
I'll give this a try. Some firmware changes will be required.

Remember that most folks who want to do this will be running full power, so you'll need a set of external bandpass filters besides internal shielding. I would let a SO2R op close to you (like W0YK or K6XX) thoroughly test it at full power before releasing it.

73, Bill

KK7P

Re: K3: SO2R-in-a-box

>> It may be possible to do full duplex with the sub receiver on a
>> different band and antenna from main, since it's very well-shielded.
>> I'll give this a try. Some firmware changes will be required.
>>
>
> Remember that most folks who want to do this will be running full power, so
> you'll need a set of external bandpass filters besides internal shielding.
> I would let a SO2R op close to you (like W0YK or K6XX) thoroughly test it at
> full power before releasing it.

Or using transverters to operate satellites, in which case they will likely be
using milliwatt power levels to the transverters.

73,

Lyle KK7P/7 (Tucson AZ)
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John-483

Re: K3: SO2R-in-a-box

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

If you pull this rabbit out of your hat, how about an IPO.

John k7up

At 08:32 AM 16/10/09, you wrote:
>It may be possible to do full duplex with the sub receiver on a
>different band and antenna from main, since it's very well-shielded.
>I'll give this a try. Some firmware changes will be required.
>
>73,
>Wayne
>
>----
>http://www.elecraft.com

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3: SO2R-in-a-box

In reply to this post by Bill W4ZV

"SO2R-in-a-box" will probably require that the subreceiver
use the 2nd antenna jack on the KAT3 (or a yet to be designed
antenna switch) in order to be compatible with conventional
BPF, antenna switching and amplifier configurations. In that
case it will be limited by the isolation in the KAT3.

The alternative is to use the subreceiver and Aux Ant jack
with A<>B logic for transmitting. That case will require an
entirely new band decoding/BPF/antenna switching topology -
one that supports TX/RX/RX switching (which happens to be on
of the features of microHAM Station Master Deluxe whenever
it is finally available) and an understanding that the
transmit "radio" will always be in the left ear (e.g. will
move with transmit focus).

73,

... Joe, W4TV

> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill W4ZV
> Sent: Friday, October 16, 2009 10:46 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: SO2R-in-a-box
>
>
>
>
>
> wayne burdick wrote:
> >
> > It may be possible to do full duplex with the sub receiver on a
> > different band and antenna from main, since it's very
> well-shielded.
> > I'll give this a try. Some firmware changes will be required.
> >
>
> Remember that most folks who want to do this will be running
> full power, so you'll need a set of external bandpass filters
> besides internal shielding.
> I would let a SO2R op close to you (like W0YK or K6XX)
> thoroughly test it at full power before releasing it.
>
> 73, Bill
>

Bill W4ZV

Re: [Elecraft] K3: SO2R-in-a-box

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV-4 (via Nabble) <[hidden email]> wrote:

"SO2R-in-a-box" will probably require that the subreceiver
use the 2nd antenna jack on the KAT3 (or a yet to be designed
antenna switch) in order to be compatible with conventional
BPF, antenna switching and amplifier configurations. In that
case it will be limited by the isolation in the KAT3.

The alternative is to use the subreceiver and Aux Ant jack
with A<>B logic for transmitting. That case will require an
entirely new band decoding/BPF/antenna switching topology -
one that supports TX/RX/RX switching (which happens to be on
of the features of microHAM Station Master Deluxe whenever
it is finally available) and an understanding that the
transmit "radio" will always be in the left ear (e.g. will
move with transmit focus).

JMHO but I believe true SO2R should wait until there's more real estate on a larger K4 front panel, even if the internal RF issues can be solved in the K3. The K3 already suffers from ergonomic overload and lack of flexibility with antenna selection, audio routing, etc. even when just using diversity in SO1R. True SO2R adds another level of complexity to an already overloaded interface. Given this, I believe there are higher priorities to work on with the K3 and save SO2R for a better human interface in the K4.

73, Bill W4ZV

Ignacy

Re: [Elecraft] K3: SO2R-in-a-box

Just being a devil's advocate, if nearly all the switching/setting is handled by a computer, can the radio be almost a black box?

No, I don't do SO2R.
Ignacy

Bill W4ZV wrote

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV-4 (via Nabble) <
ml-user+154617-66613788@n2.nabble.com<ml-user%2B154617-66613788@n2.nabble.com>
> wrote:

>
> "SO2R-in-a-box" will probably require that the subreceiver
> use the 2nd antenna jack on the KAT3 (or a yet to be designed
> antenna switch) in order to be compatible with conventional
> BPF, antenna switching and amplifier configurations. In that
> case it will be limited by the isolation in the KAT3.
>
> The alternative is to use the subreceiver and Aux Ant jack
> with A<>B logic for transmitting. That case will require an
> entirely new band decoding/BPF/antenna switching topology -
> one that supports TX/RX/RX switching (which happens to be on
> of the features of microHAM Station Master Deluxe whenever
> it is finally available) and an understanding that the
> transmit "radio" will always be in the left ear (e.g. will
> move with transmit focus).
>

JMHO but I believe true SO2R should wait until there's more real estate on a
larger K4 front panel, even if the internal RF issues can be solved in the
K3. The K3 already suffers from ergonomic overload and lack of flexibility
with antenna selection, audio routing, etc. even when just using diversity
in SO1R. True SO2R adds another level of complexity to an already
overloaded interface. Given this, I believe there are higher priorities to
work on with the K3 and save SO2R for a better human interface in the K4.

73, Bill W4ZV

Tom Haavisto

Re: K3: SO2R-in-a-box

In reply to this post by K1LI

SO2R is short for Single op, TWO radio.

While I trust the good folks at Elecraft can make the second receiver work
full duplex, the end result will NOT be TWO radios. Many folks are using
two K3's for SO2R, and others are using the K3 plus something else for
SO2R.

Consider for a moment that I have two (manual tune) amps, with different
drive requirements. You also need outboard filtering, and the more antennas
the better. You also need some way of selecting all those antennas. Plus
some other stuff for good measure to make everything work. The bottom line
being - one radio vs two is not the most expensive part of the equation.
Yes - its an additional expense, but if you want to play SO2R, pick up a
used contest grade rig. Now that the K3 is out there, used gear is going
down in price, making it less of a show stopper if you want to play SO2R.

While I have no doubt the K3 can do many things, I just don't see any
advantage to trying to make one radio look like two, and no one will be
particularly happy with the end result by trying to make it so.

Tom - VE3CX

On Fri, Oct 16, 2009 at 9:58 AM, Brian Machesney <[hidden email]>wrote: