K3 SSB Noise Reduction
Locked
 
|
Can anybody explain to me why with NR engaged SSB signal drop's in volume significantly. AF volume has to be readjusted every time the NR is turned ON and than again when is turned off.
NR is on F1-1. I don't believe that this is normal. Thanks, Mark ____________________________________________________________________________________ Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
This is my experience too with the K3 NB.
I believe it is normal, but question why the AF level can not be auto adjusted to offset this reduction with the NB engaged.
|
|
|
In reply to this post by mark roz
For NB please read NR, still, why the reduction in volume?
|
|
|
Is it really a reduction in volume, or is it that with the noise gone,
it sounds quieter? I've noticed the 'apparent' reduction in volume, but I actually think its that the NR has removed all the spurious noise and the result is a cleaner audio that somehow sounds lower volume. -- The high minded man must care more for the truth than for what people think. -Aristotle, philosopher (384-322 BCE) On 20 Mar 2008, at 20:37, F5VJC wrote: > For NB please read NR, still, why the reduction in volume? > mark roz wrote: >> >> Can anybody explain to me why with NR engaged SSB signal drop's in >> volume >> significantly. AF volume has to be readjusted every time the NR is >> turned >> ON and than again when is turned off. >> NR is on F1-1. >> I don't believe that this is normal. Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
David,
There is nothing to think about. There is for sure significant reduction of volume. Just listen to the station on 20m (low noise) using speaker 4 feet away. Adjust the volume (to low level) to the point that you could still understand what the person is saying. Than push NR. I bet that volume will drop to the point that you will not copy the station. Certainly, not compensating for AF gain loss when NR is engaged makes noise reduction function "work much better" NR in CW works fb. Little AF gain Loss. Mark --- On Thu, 3/20/08, David Ferrington, M0XDF <[hidden email]> wrote: > From: David Ferrington, M0XDF <[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 SSB Noise Reduction > To: "F5VJC" <[hidden email]> > Cc: [hidden email] > Date: Thursday, March 20, 2008, 4:43 PM > Is it really a reduction in volume, or is it that with the > noise gone, > it sounds quieter? > I've noticed the 'apparent' reduction in > volume, but I actually think > its that the NR has removed all the spurious noise and the > result is a > cleaner audio that somehow sounds lower volume. > -- > The high minded man must care more for the truth than for > what people > think. -Aristotle, philosopher (384-322 BCE) > > On 20 Mar 2008, at 20:37, F5VJC wrote: > > For NB please read NR, still, why the reduction in > volume? > > mark roz wrote: > >> > >> Can anybody explain to me why with NR engaged SSB > signal drop's in > >> volume > >> significantly. AF volume has to be readjusted > every time the NR is > >> turned > >> ON and than again when is turned off. > >> NR is on F1-1. > >> I don't believe that this is normal. > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
In reply to this post by mark roz
Yes Mark you are not alone. I normally run with the AF gain set at 9
o'clock. but when the NR is on I have to advance to nearly 11 o'clock for the same volume from the speaker. In config , my AGC settings are all at the default and AF GAIN is set to Hi. I have a couple of skeds where the signals run close to the noise level. I have a 2.1 KHz filter and I usually run with a bandwidth of 2.0KHz under these circumstances. I am constantly switching the NR on and off but I sometimes forget to reduce the AF gain before switching off the NR. I get a rude awakening with a blast from the speaker. The NR does work very well and greatly improves the readability when signals are close to the noise level. The more agressive NR settings reduce the volume still further. I would prefer the audio level to be as close as possible whether the NR is on or off. I hope this can be taken care of soon. 73 Tony Fegan VE3QF K3 #137 mark roz wrote: > Can anybody explain to me why with NR engaged SSB signal drop's in volume significantly. AF volume has to be readjusted every time the NR is turned ON and than again when is turned off. > NR is on F1-1. > I don't believe that this is normal. > Thanks, > Mark > > > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
In reply to this post by Deni F5VJC
With the K2 DSP I seem to remember that there was a parameter to
normalise the gain between NR In and Out. Maybe the same could be done with the K3 DSP ? 73 Stewart G3RXQ On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 13:33:10 -0700 (PDT), F5VJC wrote: > > This is my experience too with the K3 NB. > I believe it is normal, but question why the AF level can not be auto > adjusted to offset this reduction with the NB engaged. > > > mark roz wrote: > >> Can anybody explain to me why with NR engaged SSB signal drop's in volume >> significantly. AF volume has to be readjusted every time the NR is turned >> ON and than again when is turned off. >> NR is on F1-1. >> I don't believe that this is normal. >> Thanks, >> Mark >> >> >> __________________________________________________________________ __________________ >> Be a better friend, newshound, and >> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. >> http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Post to: [hidden email] >> You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com >> > > ----- > 73, Deni F5VJC > > K2 1188 K3 325 > > For a Ham Radio friendly holiday in France... > Visit www.mycottageinbrittany.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
In reply to this post by Tony Fegan VE3QF
OK, I accept what you are all saying about the gain, I was just
postulating :) I agree it does drop off, but I didn't think that much. Anyone tried it with CONFIG:AF GAIN set LO? I haven't, just wondered. If there was a config control for an offset, it would need to be based on the 4 'strenghts' I think, not on the Fx number, but the digit after the - -- Life is an eternal challenge, a variant on Maeterlinck's theme that the Bluebird of happiness is by the side of each and everyone of us, always within reach, yet, if pursued to catch and possess is beyond our grasp. - Donald Campbell, CBE. (1921-1967) On 21 Mar 2008, at 05:11, Tony Fegan VE3QF wrote: > Yes Mark you are not alone. I normally run with the AF gain set at > 9 o'clock. but when the NR is on I have to advance to nearly 11 > o'clock for the same volume from the speaker. In config , my AGC > settings are all at the default and AF GAIN is set to Hi. > I have a couple of skeds where the signals run close to the noise > level. I have a 2.1 KHz filter and I usually run with a bandwidth of > 2.0KHz under these circumstances. I am constantly switching the NR > on and off but I sometimes forget to reduce the AF gain before > switching off the NR. I get a rude awakening with a blast from the > speaker. > The NR does work very well and greatly improves the readability > when signals are close to the noise level. The more agressive NR > settings reduce the volume still further. > I would prefer the audio level to be as close as possible whether > the NR is on or off. I hope this can be taken care of soon. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
> OK, I accept what you are all saying about the gain, I was just
> postulating :) > I agree it does drop off, but I didn't think that much. > Anyone tried it with CONFIG:AF GAIN set LO? I haven't, just wondered. > If there was a config control for an offset, it would need to be based > on the 4 'strenghts' I think, not on the Fx number, but the digit after > the - The first value you see -- the Fx -- has to do with the aggressiveness of the filter. The second value you see specifies the blend of processed and unprocessed audio. Keep in mind always that the denoiser is not a denoiser; it is a signal enhancer. It will act to suppress *everything* until it decides there is some sort of signal present, then act to pass that signal. The more the signal appears to be a pure tone (like CW) the faster and more decisively the algorithm acts. The less it looks like a signal (noisy SSB comes to mind) the slower and less decisively the algorithm acts. This is why the audio level is low to begin with. For CW with reasonable S/N, it usually quickly builds up to the same overall amplitude as without the NR. For SSB with poor S/N, it builds up slowly and to a lesser overall amplitude. Thus, observations that the signal amplitude sometimes or often appears reduced are correct. The disagreements about how much it is reduced are also correct. It depends on the NR settings, the S/N of the signal you are listening to at the moment, the type of signal, the IF and AF bandwidth... FWIW, I usually have mine set to F1-1 or F1-2 for SSB operation. YMMV. 73, Lyle KK7P _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
mine is usually F1-3 or F1-4 for SSB down on 160m & 80m - but I have a
noisy QTH ans not helped by my poor siting of the ANT (soon to be corrected). The NR works real well ans helps a lot, so I'm happy and don't mind having to crank up the AF occasionaly -- Those who walk bravely through life, unafraid of loss or failure, find that they very rarely lose or fail. On 21 Mar 2008, at 13:46, Lyle Johnson wrote: >> FWIW, I usually have mine set to F1-1 or F1-2 for SSB operation. >> YMMV. _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
In reply to this post by KK7P
Lyle,
So, with SSB signal S9 and noise S2 with NR= F1-1 signal shouldn't drop to much?? SSB signals always drop about 3dB. Even signals SSB with good S/N. I understand all what you are saying but how hard it would be to increase AF gain when NR is engaged? Thanks, Mark --- On Fri, 3/21/08, Lyle Johnson <[hidden email]> wrote: > From: Lyle Johnson <[hidden email]> > Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 SSB Noise Reduction > To: "Elecraft" <[hidden email]> > Date: Friday, March 21, 2008, 6:46 AM > > OK, I accept what you are all saying about the gain, I > was just > > postulating :) > > I agree it does drop off, but I didn't think that > much. > > Anyone tried it with CONFIG:AF GAIN set LO? I > haven't, just wondered. > > If there was a config control for an offset, it would > need to be based > > on the 4 'strenghts' I think, not on the Fx > number, but the digit after > > the - > > The first value you see -- the Fx -- has to do with the > aggressiveness > of the filter. The second value you see specifies the > blend of > processed and unprocessed audio. > > Keep in mind always that the denoiser is not a denoiser; it > is a signal > enhancer. It will act to suppress *everything* until it > decides there > is some sort of signal present, then act to pass that > signal. The more > the signal appears to be a pure tone (like CW) the faster > and more > decisively the algorithm acts. The less it looks like a > signal (noisy > SSB comes to mind) the slower and less decisively the > algorithm acts. > This is why the audio level is low to begin with. > > For CW with reasonable S/N, it usually quickly builds up to > the same > overall amplitude as without the NR. > > For SSB with poor S/N, it builds up slowly and to a lesser > overall > amplitude. > > Thus, observations that the signal amplitude sometimes or > often appears > reduced are correct. The disagreements about how much it > is reduced are > also correct. > > It depends on the NR settings, the S/N of the signal you > are listening > to at the moment, the type of signal, the IF and AF > bandwidth... > > FWIW, I usually have mine set to F1-1 or F1-2 for SSB > operation. YMMV. > > 73, > > Lyle KK7P > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
> I understand all what you are saying but how hard it would be to increase AF gain when NR is engaged?
Mode-based NR gain compensation is one of the items on the list of requests/suggestions. 73, Lyle KK7P _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
My TS2000 and FT1000MP MKV both have similar audio reductions when using the
NR. I think it is the nature of the beast !! Barry Simpson VK2BJ _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
In reply to this post by mark roz
SSB is an unutterably horrible noise and needs to be blanked? ;)
Sorry couldn't help myself. 73 Dave Wilburn K4DGW K2/100 - S/N 5982 "For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know." mark roz wrote: > Can anybody explain to me why with NR engaged SSB signal drop's in volume significantly. AF volume has to be readjusted every time the NR is turned ON and than again when is turned off. > NR is on F1-1. > I don't believe that this is normal. > Thanks, > Mark > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Be a better friend, newshound, and > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
|
|
you are correct. It is noisy isn't it?
SSB NR should be standard on all rigs. Have a great weekend! Ken, KA0W David Wilburn wrote: > SSB is an unutterably horrible noise and needs to be blanked? ;) > Sorry couldn't help myself. 73 > Dave Wilburn > K4DGW > K2/100 - S/N 5982 > "For those who fought for it, freedom has a flavor the protected will > never know." > mark roz wrote: >> Can anybody explain to me why with NR engaged SSB signal drop's in volume significantly. AF volume has to be readjusted every time the NR is turned ON and than again when is turned off. >> NR is on F1-1. >> I don't believe that this is normal. >> Thanks, >> Mark >> >> >> >> ____________________________________________________________________________________ >> Be a better friend, newshound, and >> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Post to: [hidden email] >> You must be a subscriber to post to the list. >> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): >> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm >> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com >> > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
«
Return to Elecraft
|
1 view|%1 views
| Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |