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K3 Shuts Off On High Power-HELP!

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-.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.-

K3 Shuts Off On High Power-HELP!

My K3 is shutting off on high power. CW and SSB. It seems to be drawing too many amps and I am checking this on an external power supply (DAIWA PS-304). I get the same results when I am on the dummy load and when I am on the antenna. I didn't check six meters but here is the data. What's going on? Do I need to reset the whole radio?

3.8 mhz- 100w @ 28-30 amps.>>>> shuts off
4.1 mhz(Mars) 100W @ 20 amps *stays on
7.2 mhz 100w @ 25-30 amps shuts off
14.2 mhz 100w @ 27-30 amps shuts off
10.1 mhz 100w @ 28 amps shuts off
18.1mhz 100w @20 amps *stays on
21.2 100w @ 28-30 amps shuts off
24.930 100w @ 26-28 amps shuts off
28.4 100w @ 25 amp * stays on

Six meters didn't test yet.

-.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.-

Re: K3 Shuts Off On High Power-HELP!

I just shut the radio and power supply off and turned it back on. Now on all the bands it is drawing around 25 amps and not cutting out but the CW still cuts out and shuts off the radio. I wonder if there is a setting in the menu that I knocked out of whack by accident. I do have a good ground and tested it.

Robert Friess

Re: K3 Shuts Off On High Power-HELP!

The radio is drawing too much current. What is the key down supply
voltage at the radio?

Bob

On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 6:53 PM, -.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.-
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I just shut the radio and power supply off and turned it back on. Now on all
> the bands it is drawing around 25 amps and not cutting out but the CW still
> cuts out and shuts off the radio. I wonder if there is a setting in the menu
> that I knocked out of whack by accident. I do have a good ground and tested
> it.
> --
> View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Shuts-Off-On-High-Power-HELP%21-tp2387427p2387588.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
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Ian Maude

Re: K3 Shuts Off On High Power-HELP!

In reply to this post by -.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.-

-.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.- wrote:
> My K3 is shutting off on high power. CW and SSB. It seems to be drawing too
> many amps and I am checking this on an external power supply (DAIWA PS-304).
> I get the same results when I am on the dummy load and when I am on the
> antenna. I didn't check six meters but here is the data. What's going on? Do
> I need to reset the whole radio? :-((
>
My guess is that your power supply has gone AWOL. Check the voltage
from it on key-down.

73 Ian

--

Ian J Maude, G0VGS
SysOp GB7MBC & HB9DRV-9 DX Clusters
Member RSGB, GQRP, FISTS
K2 #4044 |K3 #455
http://www.amateurradiotraining.org

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Gary Smith

Re: K3 Shuts Off On High Power-HELP!

In reply to this post by -.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.-

Just running 100W on 1.812 MHz & 14.2V at the K3 drew around 17-18A
from my Astron.

3.525 MHz draws the same

25-30 amps isn't right.

Wish I could be of more help.

Gary
KA1J

> My K3 is shutting off on high power. CW and SSB. It seems to be drawing too
> many amps and I am checking this on an external power supply (DAIWA PS-304).
> I get the same results when I am on the dummy load and when I am on the
> antenna. I didn't check six meters but here is the data. What's going on? Do
> I need to reset the whole radio? :-((
>
> 3.8 mhz- 100w @ 28-30 amps.>>>> shuts off
> 4.1 mhz(Mars) 100W @ 20 amps *stays on
> 7.2 mhz 100w @ 25-30 amps shuts off
> 14.2 mhz 100w @ 27-30 amps shuts off
> 10.1 mhz 100w @ 28 amps shuts off
> 18.1mhz 100w @20 amps *stays on
> 21.2 100w @ 28-30 amps shuts off
> 24.930 100w @ 26-28 amps shuts off
> 28.4 100w @ 25 amp * stays on
>
> Six meters didn't test yet.
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Shuts-Off-On-High-Power-HELP%21-tp2387427p2387427.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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Craig WØLV

Re: K3 Shuts Off On High Power-HELP!

In reply to this post by -.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.-

Check the power plugs on the back of the radio. I had the same problem

-.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.- wrote

My K3 is shutting off on high power. CW and SSB. It seems to be drawing too many amps and I am checking this on an external power supply (DAIWA PS-304). I get the same results when I am on the dummy load and when I am on the antenna. I didn't check six meters but here is the data. What's going on? Do I need to reset the whole radio?

3.8 mhz- 100w @ 28-30 amps.>>>> shuts off
4.1 mhz(Mars) 100W @ 20 amps *stays on
7.2 mhz 100w @ 25-30 amps shuts off
14.2 mhz 100w @ 27-30 amps shuts off
10.1 mhz 100w @ 28 amps shuts off
18.1mhz 100w @20 amps *stays on
21.2 100w @ 28-30 amps shuts off
24.930 100w @ 26-28 amps shuts off
28.4 100w @ 25 amp * stays on

Six meters didn't test yet.

Jack Smith-6

K3 Typical TX Current Consumption

As part of a detailed series of transmitter performance measurements
(still underway), I measured my K3's current requirements at various
supply voltages and output powers for all bands.

At 100 watts commanded power, tune mode, and with 13.8 V nominal applied
(13.797 measured), I measured the following current requirements:

Frequency (KHZ) Current (A)
1850 17.919
3900 17.116
5330.5 17.094
7250 16.796
10120 18.544
14175 18.587
18120 15.232
21250 16.966
24950 15.53
28350 14.308

The power supply used for these tests is an Hewlett Packard digitally
controlled model 6652A with remote voltage sensing--the sensing leads
are connected to the Anderson connector where it enters my K3. Hence the
wiring drop (but not the connector drop) is compensated for. I measured
the standard Elecraft 5 ft cable as having around 40 milliohms loop
resistance, if I remember correctly, which amounts to 0.72 V drop at
18A. My notes are in the basement and I'm writing this from a couple of
floors above, so I could be mis-remembering the number slightly.

The figures are shown in three decimal places, as that's how the HP
6652A reports. The instrument's stated accuracy is +/- 0.15% + 26 mA.

In addition to the band-to-band changes, reflecting different
efficiency, my data shows that the current requirement is more or less
independent of supply voltage, with only a small change in current noted
for a particular power output as the supply voltage changes between
11.2V to 15.0V. I assume this is because the majority of the supply
current goes to the HPA stage and the final transistors have more or
less constant base drive so the finals operate in constant current mode
with respect to the DC supply voltage. This has some interesting
ramifications for efficiency and heat dissipation versus supply voltage
when one is operating CW, more about which when I complete my
measurements and finish writing up the analysis.

Jack K8ZOA
www.cliftonlaboratories.com

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hb9ari@bluewin.ch

Re: K3 Shuts Off On High Power-HELP!

In reply to this post by Ian Maude

Ian,

I've just done a test:
100W RMS (LP-100A) single tone 1500Hz sinus USB @7.035MHz into a 50ohms
dummy load,
20A under 14.0V (at K3 power terminals) K3 #1212

73 QRO fr Rudolf, HB9ARI

Ian Maude wrote:

> -.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.- wrote:
>
>> My K3 is shutting off on high power. CW and SSB. It seems to be drawing too
>> many amps and I am checking this on an external power supply (DAIWA PS-304).
>> I get the same results when I am on the dummy load and when I am on the
>> antenna. I didn't check six meters but here is the data. What's going on? Do
>> I need to reset the whole radio? :-((
>>
>>
> My guess is that your power supply has gone AWOL. Check the voltage
> from it on key-down.
>
> 73 Ian
>
>

hb9ari@bluewin.ch

Re: K3 Shuts Off On High Power-HELP!

In reply to this post by Ian Maude

Correction!

There are 18.5A (instead of 20A) under 14.0V.
I omit to subtract 1.5A for some
external accessories!
Sorry!

73,
Rudolf

Ian Maude wrote:

alsopb

Re: K3 Shuts Off On High Power-HELP!

N3TU

Is it possible that the TX power calibration by band was not done?
Might be worth trying it again with the dummy load. The new firmware
program makes it easy.

73 de Brian/K3KO

hb9ari wrote:

>Correction!
>
>There are 18.5A (instead of 20A) under 14.0V.
>I omit to subtract 1.5A for some
>external accessories!
>Sorry!
>
>73,
>Rudolf
>
>Ian Maude wrote:
>
>
>>-.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.- wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>My K3 is shutting off on high power. CW and SSB. It seems to be drawing too
>>>many amps and I am checking this on an external power supply (DAIWA PS-304).
>>>I get the same results when I am on the dummy load and when I am on the
>>>antenna. I didn't check six meters but here is the data. What's going on? Do
>>>I need to reset the whole radio? :-((
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>My guess is that your power supply has gone AWOL. Check the voltage
>>from it on key-down.
>>
>>73 Ian
>>
>>
>>
>>
>______________________________________________________________
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>
>

P.B. Christensen

Re: K3 Typical TX Current Consumption

In reply to this post by Jack Smith-6

> The power supply used for these tests is an Hewlett Packard digitally
> controlled model 6652A with remote voltage sensing--the sensing leads
> are connected to the Anderson connector where it enters my K3.

Same here, Jack. I recently purchased a used HP 6652A and use the sense
leads in the same manner. I run the K3 at 14.5 VDC and the 6652A is
programmed to open at 16 VDC.

For those curious, the HP/Agilent 6652A is a programmable 25A, 0-20 VDC
lab-grade supply. It runs very cool, and is extremely stable. It's also a
linear pass-transistor design ;-) The 6652A replaces a 16-year-old Astron
RS-35A.

On the used market, it's possible to find these supplies for about $400-$500
in good operating and cosmetic condition. I believe the new price is close
to $6K.

The supply's fan runs a bit louder than I'd like. I just completed a
modification using a NTC thermistor, power MOSFET, multi-turn pot, and a 5W
resistor in series with the fan lead. Now, the fan only operates when the
temp threshold is exceeded and when active, is no longer audible yet is
still produces adequate cooling volume.

Hey, this is starting to sound like an eHam review, so I better stop here.

Paul, W9AC

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Ken Kopp-3

K3 Power calibration and current consumption

In reply to this post by alsopb

I may well be the only one "caught" by this, but be sure that
the TRANSMITTER GAIN procedure on pages 49 and 50
of the manual has been done, but also include the 100W level.

IMO, the first paragraph under WATTMETER on page 49
should read "... 5 W, 50 W , 100 W (K3/100 only) .... etc.

If you only use the Utility's calibration procedure as suggested
in the second paragraph under TRANSMITTER GAIN on page
49, the 100W level will --not-- be calibrated.

If there's a reference in the manual to setting the 100W output
level, I've overlooked it. I spent a number of hours trying to get
my external Bird(s) and the "dialed-up" power level to agree. In
my case the PA was delivering 110 - 115 watts to the dummy
load at the "dialed up" 100W setting.

This condition might account for higher than expected current
consumption.

Once I set the gain level at 100W and then ran the Utility's
calibration routine, the Bird(s) and the "dialed up" power agree
throughout the 0-100W range. (:-)

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
[hidden email]
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K2QI

Re: K3 Power calibration and current consumption

Hi Ken,

With my K3, I only performed the 5W and 50W calibration. When I set the RF
level to 100W, the output of a constant carrier signal into a dummy load
matches my external meters without issue. I did not have to do anything
else other than to calibrate at 5 and 50W. There is no mention in the
manual of calibrating at 100W.

73,
James KC2UEE

On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 10:42 AM, Ken Kopp <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I may well be the only one "caught" by this, but be sure that
> the TRANSMITTER GAIN procedure on pages 49 and 50
> of the manual has been done, but also include the 100W level.
>
> IMO, the first paragraph under WATTMETER on page 49
> should read "... 5 W, 50 W , 100 W (K3/100 only) .... etc.
>
> If you only use the Utility's calibration procedure as suggested
> in the second paragraph under TRANSMITTER GAIN on page
> 49, the 100W level will --not-- be calibrated.
>
> If there's a reference in the manual to setting the 100W output
> level, I've overlooked it. I spent a number of hours trying to get
> my external Bird(s) and the "dialed-up" power level to agree. In
> my case the PA was delivering 110 - 115 watts to the dummy
> load at the "dialed up" 100W setting.
>
> This condition might account for higher than expected current
> consumption.
>
> Once I set the gain level at 100W and then ran the Utility's
> calibration routine, the Bird(s) and the "dialed up" power agree
> throughout the 0-100W range. (:-)
>
> 73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
> [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
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--... ...-- -.. . .--- .- -- . ...

wayne burdick

Re: K3 Power calibration and current consumption

Administrator

In reply to this post by Ken Kopp-3

Hi Ken,

There isn't any "100 W calibration" on the K3. All gain calibration is
done at 5 and 50 W (and optionally 1 mW if you have a KXV3). These are
the points we picked do the cal, and the firmware then extrapolates
from there. So, how accurate the rig is at any setting from 13 to 100 W
depends on whether you've done the 50 W calibration.

There is one additional form of optional calibration: the K3's
wattmeter. See CONFIG:WMTR in the owner's manual.

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Feb 26, 2009, at 7:42 AM, Ken Kopp wrote:

> I may well be the only one "caught" by this, but be sure that
> the TRANSMITTER GAIN procedure on pages 49 and 50
> of the manual has been done, but also include the 100W level.
>
> IMO, the first paragraph under WATTMETER on page 49
> should read "... 5 W, 50 W , 100 W (K3/100 only) .... etc.

---

http://www.elecraft.com

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-.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.-

RE: [Elecraft] K3 Shuts Off On High Power-HELP!

In reply to this post by Gary Smith

I talked to Elecraft and they said it could my 18 year old power supply is going. I am due for one anyway and hopefully it will work right again.

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 05:39:45 -0800
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Shuts Off On High Power-HELP!

Just running 100W on 1.812 MHz & 14.2V at the K3 drew around 17-18A
from my Astron.

3.525 MHz draws the same

25-30 amps isn't right.

Wish I could be of more help.

Gary
KA1J

> My K3 is shutting off on high power. CW and SSB. It seems to be drawing too
> many amps and I am checking this on an external power supply (DAIWA PS-304).
> I get the same results when I am on the dummy load and when I am on the
> antenna. I didn't check six meters but here is the data. What's going on? Do
> I need to reset the whole radio? :-((
>
> 3.8 mhz- 100w @ 28-30 amps.>>>> shuts off
> 4.1 mhz(Mars) 100W @ 20 amps *stays on
> 7.2 mhz 100w @ 25-30 amps shuts off
> 14.2 mhz 100w @ 27-30 amps shuts off
> 10.1 mhz 100w @ 28 amps shuts off
> 18.1mhz 100w @20 amps *stays on
> 21.2 100w @ 28-30 amps shuts off
> 24.930 100w @ 26-28 amps shuts off
> 28.4 100w @ 25 amp * stays on
>
> Six meters didn't test yet.
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Shuts-Off-On-High-Power-HELP%21-tp2387427p2387427.html
> Sent from the Elecraft mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

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-.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.-

RE: [Elecraft] K3 Shuts Off On High Power-HELP!

In reply to this post by Craig WØLV

I will check the pwr plugs. Tnx.

Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2009 05:57:47 -0800
From: [hidden email]
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Shuts Off On High Power-HELP!

Check the power plugs on the back of the radio. I had the same problem

-.-. --.-N3TU -.-. --.- wrote:

My K3 is shutting off on high power. CW and SSB. It seems to be drawing too many amps and I am checking this on an external power supply (DAIWA PS-304). I get the same results when I am on the dummy load and when I am on the antenna. I didn't check six meters but here is the data. What's going on? Do I need to reset the whole radio?

3.8 mhz- 100w @ 28-30 amps.>>>> shuts off
4.1 mhz(Mars) 100W @ 20 amps *stays on
7.2 mhz 100w @ 25-30 amps shuts off
14.2 mhz 100w @ 27-30 amps shuts off
10.1 mhz 100w @ 28 amps shuts off
18.1mhz 100w @20 amps *stays on
21.2 100w @ 28-30 amps shuts off
24.930 100w @ 26-28 amps shuts off
28.4 100w @ 25 amp * stays on

Six meters didn't test yet.

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