K3 Speaker, Season finale
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It is not easy for me to understand the rationale of many of the hams that recommend buying an old, battered CB speaker at a flea market to shine beside their K3/P3/KPA500 line up. It is like spending on an Armani suit and wearing it with a pair of old dirty sneakers bought second-hand at a yard sale. No kidding, I have seen that too! And all this for the sake of Elecraft, to save the company from the "shame" of having to use their talent to build a matching speaker enclosure? Somebody should have told Arthur Collins, but it is too late for that, I guess. Can you imagine somebody buying a Rolls Royce without tires only because Rolls Royce doesn't make tires? And last but not least, what is the science of designing a transceiver with so many advanced features if the output product, the sound coming out of the speaker, is mediocre at best? Why should a company hang the reputation of its product on some other manufacturer of cheap computer speakers that will not care for the excellence and expertise invested in Elecraft's flagship system? The sound coming out of the K3 is mediocre at best. It is up to Elecraft to provide a solution. If need be, I am willing to pay for it. Ramón Tristani [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Does this mean you'd be willing to pay the R&D costs, or just the list
price for Qty 2, Elecraft-developed K3 speakers? In my experience with Elecraft, the principals decide what a product line includes. I doubt that style-matched speakers is on their list of 'must do' items, but I don't speak for them and don't have the inside dope. It's "up to Elecraft" to do business however they see fit. That is a fact. One thing I can say with certainty is that there are plenty of high quality speaker sets available at retail. The Bose Companion 2 multimedia speakers are particularly effective, and at $99 SRP it's going to be difficult for Elecraft to compete (tooling costs, unit price, or reproduction quality). I'm pretty sure Elecraft folks have thought of this angle as well. They run a tight ship and don't miss much. 73, matt W6NIA On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 11:44:04 -0400, you wrote: > > >It is not easy for me to understand the rationale of many of the hams that recommend buying an old, battered CB speaker at a flea market to shine beside their K3/P3/KPA500 line up. It is like spending on an Armani suit and wearing it with a pair of old dirty sneakers bought second-hand at a yard sale. No kidding, I have seen that too! > >And all this for the sake of Elecraft, to save the company from the "shame" of having to use their talent to build a matching speaker enclosure? Somebody should have told Arthur Collins, but it is too late for that, I guess. Can you imagine somebody buying a Rolls Royce without tires only because Rolls Royce doesn't make tires? > >And last but not least, what is the science of designing a transceiver with so many advanced features if the output product, the sound coming out of the speaker, is mediocre at best? Why should a company hang the reputation of its product on some other manufacturer of cheap computer speakers that will not care for the excellence and expertise invested in Elecraft's flagship system? > >The sound coming out of the K3 is mediocre at best. It is up to Elecraft to provide a solution. If need be, I am willing to pay for it. > >Ramón Tristani >[hidden email] > > > >______________________________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:[hidden email] > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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I will make a short answer for me anyway, if I didn't like Elecraft's
business model and where they put their priorities I would not be an owner. Much less sold many thousands of dollars of other brands of radio's/Amps/etc. to switch to all Elecraft gear for the most part. I see speakers from other manufactures who have SDR's but never seem to do updates to them or if so 1 or 2 every 2 yrs or so if the customers are lucky. 73, Fred/N0AZZ K3 Ser #'s 6730/5299--KX3 # 2573--K2/100--KAT100 P3/SVGA--KPA500--KAT500--W2 -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Matt Zilmer Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 11:07 AM To: Ramon Tristani Cc: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Speaker, Season finale Does this mean you'd be willing to pay the R&D costs, or just the list price for Qty 2, Elecraft-developed K3 speakers? In my experience with Elecraft, the principals decide what a product line includes. I doubt that style-matched speakers is on their list of 'must do' items, but I don't speak for them and don't have the inside dope. It's "up to Elecraft" to do business however they see fit. That is a fact. One thing I can say with certainty is that there are plenty of high quality speaker sets available at retail. The Bose Companion 2 multimedia speakers are particularly effective, and at $99 SRP it's going to be difficult for Elecraft to compete (tooling costs, unit price, or reproduction quality). I'm pretty sure Elecraft folks have thought of this angle as well. They run a tight ship and don't miss much. 73, matt W6NIA On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 11:44:04 -0400, you wrote: > > >It is not easy for me to understand the rationale of many of the hams that recommend buying an old, battered CB speaker at a flea market to shine beside their K3/P3/KPA500 line up. It is like spending on an Armani suit and wearing it with a pair of old dirty sneakers bought second-hand at a yard sale. No kidding, I have seen that too! > >And all this for the sake of Elecraft, to save the company from the "shame" of having to use their talent to build a matching speaker enclosure? Somebody should have told Arthur Collins, but it is too late for that, I guess. Can you imagine somebody buying a Rolls Royce without tires only because Rolls Royce doesn't make tires? > >And last but not least, what is the science of designing a transceiver with so many advanced features if the output product, the sound coming out of the speaker, is mediocre at best? Why should a company hang the reputation of its product on some other manufacturer of cheap computer speakers that will not care for the excellence and expertise invested in Elecraft's flagship system? > >The sound coming out of the K3 is mediocre at best. It is up to Elecraft to provide a solution. If need be, I am willing to pay for it. > >Ramón Tristani >[hidden email] > > > >______________________________________________________________ >Elecraft mailing list >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >Post: mailto:[hidden email] > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email >list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.2904 / Virus Database: 3162/6266 - Release Date: 04/22/13 ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Ramon Tristani-2
On 4/23/2013 8:44 AM, Ramon Tristani wrote:
> And last but not least, what is the science of designing a transceiver with so many advanced features if the output product, the sound coming out of the speaker, is mediocre at best? As a retired audio professional (Fellow of the Audio Engineering Society), ham for 55 years, and contester since 1957, I have several thoughts on this question. 1) The science of loudspeaker design, while well understood, is so far removed from the science of building high quality radio transceivers that it makes no sense for a small company like Elecraft to devote their limited engineering resources to designing and building one. 2) For any serious operating, I've always used headphones. I use a loudspeaker only for casual operation, and for monitoring while I'm in the shack doing somethings else. 3) The "ideal" loudspeaker for ham radio is nothing more or less than one that has very smooth, uniform ("flat) frequency response in the range of 200 - 4,000 Hz, maintains that uniformity over a wide range of angles where the listener is likely to have his/her ears. It should either be sufficiently efficient that it can be made loud enough by the relatively small speaker amplifiers in the K3, or it should have its own internal power amplifier. The problem with loudspeakers having internal power amplifiers is that nearly all I have seen, including some rather expensive pro models, have serious RFI problems. Loudspeakers that are relatively small tend to have smooth response over wider angles, but they also tend to be less efficient (that is, they take a bit more power to drive). Bottom line -- Elecraft made exactly the right decision to stay out of the loudspeaker business. If you want an outboard loudspeaker for ANY ham rig, simply look in the pro audio world for one that has flat response, sensitivity of at least 80 dBSPL for 1 watt at 1 meter, and fits on your operating desk. Look for audio products, not radio products. The best I know of is the RCF MR55, which is made in Italy and distributed worldwide. I've used them in some very high quality professional installations. http://www.rcf.it/products/installed-sound-systems/monitor-series/mr-55 Exception -- for many years, Motorola has marketed some small loudspeakers designed for use with their commercial VHF/UHF transceivers that works well for ham radio. 73, Jim k9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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As the party responsible for the K3's speaker selection and orientation, I thought I'd weigh in here.
The speaker selected has extremely high sensitivity (95 dB SPL) and excellent audio response, thanks in part to its large (and shielded) magnet. It met our fidelity and drive-level goals for an internal speaker. The speaker is mounted on the top cover rather than facing forward based on our experiments with the K3 and earlier radios. We tried mounting the same speaker (and others) in an enclosure the same height as the K3, on the front panel. While mid and high-range audio was a little louder in this orientation, bass was significantly weaker. It turns out that response is accentuated by mounting the speaker on the top cover due to enclosure geometry (larger surface area). In most home installations the speaker audio is also reflected off the wall or equipment directly behind the radio. This, too, favors a top-mounted speaker. If you want more audio power and wider response range, you can use two passive (or powered) external speakers. The K3 was designed to drive two passive (non-powered) external 4 to 8-ohm speakers such as the KLH970 to quite high volume levels. These speakers are about 8x4x4" (HWD), so they are indeed taller than the K3, but they're black and nicely styled and look very nice on either side of the radio. I put mine on a shelf above it. The K3 was designed from the ground up to be full stereo, so I do recommend using two speakers rather than one. This gives you audio effects such as simulated stereo, as well as main/left and sub/right when using the sub receiver. We may offer our own matching speakers someday, though we have no such project in the works since (in our opinion) the K3's internal speaker does an excellent job. You can also achieve excellent results with two external unpowered speakers that may set you back $20. 73, Wayne N6KR ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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On 4/23/2013 11:15 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote:
> The speaker selected has extremely high sensitivity (95 dB SPL) and excellent audio response, thanks in part to its large (and shielded) magnet. It met our fidelity and drive-level goals for an internal speaker. I think it was an excellent choice. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3 Speaker, Season finale
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In reply to this post by wayne burdick
On 4/23/2013 2:15 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: > If you want more audio power and wider response range, you can use > two passive (or powered) external speakers. The K3 was designed to > drive two passive (non-powered) external 4 to 8-ohm speakers such as > the KLH970 to quite high volume levels. These speakers are about > 8x4x4" (HWD), so they are indeed taller than the K3, but they're > black and nicely styled and look very nice on either side of the > radio. I put mine on a shelf above it. The KLH970 are a fairly decent value ... Overstock.com is showing the KLH970 at $30/pair (factory refurbished). I've used a similar pair of Sony B1000 bookshelf speakers (about $50 for the pair at the time) without any complaints. 73, ... Joe, W4TV ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Friends,
A good point regarding these speakers is that Radio Shack sells similar speakers sometimes labeled KLH and more recently labeled Auvio for about $40. You would hardly expect Elecraft to be able to distribute as good a speaker pair for such a price. Similarly power supplies are readily available from OEM sources and available for much less that ham radio manufacturers are able to retail them at. 73 Doug EI2CN -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Joe Subich, W4TV Sent: 23 April 2013 19:50 To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Speaker, Season finale On 4/23/2013 2:15 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: > If you want more audio power and wider response range, you can use > two passive (or powered) external speakers. The K3 was designed to > drive two passive (non-powered) external 4 to 8-ohm speakers such as > the KLH970 to quite high volume levels. These speakers are about > 8x4x4" (HWD), so they are indeed taller than the K3, but they're > black and nicely styled and look very nice on either side of the > radio. I put mine on a shelf above it. The KLH970 are a fairly decent value ... Overstock.com is showing the KLH970 at $30/pair (factory refurbished). I've used a similar pair of Sony B1000 bookshelf speakers (about $50 for the pair at the time) without any complaints. 73, ... Joe, W4TV ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4
This one there sure looks like my Motorola speakers:
http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Midland-21-406-Mobile-Speaker/3697658/p roduct.html Though cheaper at http://www.amazon.com/Midland-21-406-Amateur-Extension-Speaker/dp/B000246VPM 73, Jim N7US -----Original Message----- On 4/23/2013 2:15 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: > If you want more audio power and wider response range, you can use two > passive (or powered) external speakers. The K3 was designed to drive > two passive (non-powered) external 4 to 8-ohm speakers such as the > KLH970 to quite high volume levels. These speakers are about 8x4x4" > (HWD), so they are indeed taller than the K3, but they're black and > nicely styled and look very nice on either side of the radio. I put > mine on a shelf above it. The KLH970 are a fairly decent value ... Overstock.com is showing the KLH970 at $30/pair (factory refurbished). I've used a similar pair of Sony B1000 bookshelf speakers (about $50 for the pair at the time) without any complaints. 73, ... Joe, W4TV ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
Yes, an excellent choice, especially for CW sidetone freq. of 700Hz which is my
favorite. I get a noticeable boost in sidetone level by using a 60 degree deflector over the top internal speaker made from 3 inch black ABS tubing. Have yet to find a more sensitive speaker for CW sidetone ranges. 73, Mike AC5p ________________________________ From: Jim Brown <[hidden email]> To: [hidden email] Sent: Tue, April 23, 2013 1:25:28 PM Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Speaker, Season finale On 4/23/2013 11:15 AM, Wayne Burdick wrote: > The speaker selected has extremely high sensitivity (95 dB SPL) and excellent >audio response, thanks in part to its large (and shielded) magnet. It met our >fidelity and drive-level goals for an internal speaker. I think it was an excellent choice. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by N7US
That speaker is probably a licensed copy of the Moto speaker used on Syntors, Micors, Mitreks, etc.
Matt Zilmer, W6NIA Semper Gumby -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim McDonald Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 12:14 PM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Speaker, Season finale This one there sure looks like my Motorola speakers: http://www.overstock.com/Electronics/Midland-21-406-Mobile-Speaker/3697658/p roduct.html Though cheaper at http://www.amazon.com/Midland-21-406-Amateur-Extension-Speaker/dp/B000246VPM 73, Jim N7US -----Original Message----- On 4/23/2013 2:15 PM, Wayne Burdick wrote: > If you want more audio power and wider response range, you can use two > passive (or powered) external speakers. The K3 was designed to drive > two passive (non-powered) external 4 to 8-ohm speakers such as the > KLH970 to quite high volume levels. These speakers are about 8x4x4" > (HWD), so they are indeed taller than the K3, but they're black and > nicely styled and look very nice on either side of the radio. I put > mine on a shelf above it. The KLH970 are a fairly decent value ... Overstock.com is showing the KLH970 at $30/pair (factory refurbished). I've used a similar pair of Sony B1000 bookshelf speakers (about $50 for the pair at the time) without any complaints. 73, ... Joe, W4TV ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Matt Zilmer
Matt,
The matching speaker for the Yaesu FTdx9000 (we all now how much they cost) is expensive. Is it better than the two internal speakers in the transceiver?...not really was my opinion. Even the FTdx900 with two internal speakers was not great. We all have different audio opinions and to make the 'perfect' speaker for all would be a case of a 'bridge too far' I reckon. I for one would rather spend my money on receiver performance over ANY other add on or toy or appearance grabbing device 73. On 24 April 2013 02:06, Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]> wrote: > Does this mean you'd be willing to pay the R&D costs, or just the list > price for Qty 2, Elecraft-developed K3 speakers? > > In my experience with Elecraft, the principals decide what a product > line includes. I doubt that style-matched speakers is on their list > of 'must do' items, but I don't speak for them and don't have the > inside dope. > > It's "up to Elecraft" to do business however they see fit. That is a > fact. > > One thing I can say with certainty is that there are plenty of high > quality speaker sets available at retail. The Bose Companion 2 > multimedia speakers are particularly effective, and at $99 SRP it's > going to be difficult for Elecraft to compete (tooling costs, unit > price, or reproduction quality). I'm pretty sure Elecraft folks have > thought of this angle as well. They run a tight ship and don't miss > much. > > 73, > matt W6NIA > > On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 11:44:04 -0400, you wrote: > > > > > > >It is not easy for me to understand the rationale of many of the hams > that recommend buying an old, battered CB speaker at a flea market to shine > beside their K3/P3/KPA500 line up. It is like spending on an Armani suit > and wearing it with a pair of old dirty sneakers bought second-hand at a > yard sale. No kidding, I have seen that too! > > > >And all this for the sake of Elecraft, to save the company from the > "shame" of having to use their talent to build a matching speaker > enclosure? Somebody should have told Arthur Collins, but it is too late for > that, I guess. Can you imagine somebody buying a Rolls Royce without tires > only because Rolls Royce doesn't make tires? > > > >And last but not least, what is the science of designing a transceiver > with so many advanced features if the output product, the sound coming out > of the speaker, is mediocre at best? Why should a company hang the > reputation of its product on some other manufacturer of cheap computer > speakers that will not care for the excellence and expertise invested in > Elecraft's flagship system? > > > >The sound coming out of the K3 is mediocre at best. It is up to Elecraft > to provide a solution. If need be, I am willing to pay for it. > > > >Ramón Tristani > >[hidden email] > > > > > > > >______________________________________________________________ > >Elecraft mailing list > >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > >Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > > >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > -- *Gary - VK1ZZ Skype: Gary.VK1ZZ Motorhome Portable The Shack* *Elecraft K3 P3 Panadapter KPA500FT KAT500FT** KX3-K * ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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Hi Gary,
It all depends on what one is willing to pay for, and how well it fits the application versus other solutions. You will get no argument from me on speakers versus xcvr performance, but there is room for a lot of opinions in this world. :) Wayne also made a statement ("weighed in") in which he indicated a custom speaker set fo the K3 could be in the cards. I think it would depend on the pricing the group could tolerate, as well as the sales volume. Fortunately, I've already found my ideal solution, so can focus on RX/TX performance and put even more hours on my KX3 as well. To each his own! 73, matt W6NIA On Wed, 24 Apr 2013 07:47:56 +1000, you wrote: >Matt, > >The matching speaker for the Yaesu FTdx9000 (we all now how much they cost) >is expensive. Is it better than the two internal speakers in the >transceiver?...not really was my opinion. Even the FTdx900 with two >internal speakers was not great. > >We all have different audio opinions and to make the 'perfect' speaker for >all would be a case of a 'bridge too far' I reckon. > >I for one would rather spend my money on receiver performance over ANY >other add on or toy or appearance grabbing device > >73. > > > >On 24 April 2013 02:06, Matt Zilmer <[hidden email]> wrote: > >> Does this mean you'd be willing to pay the R&D costs, or just the list >> price for Qty 2, Elecraft-developed K3 speakers? >> >> In my experience with Elecraft, the principals decide what a product >> line includes. I doubt that style-matched speakers is on their list >> of 'must do' items, but I don't speak for them and don't have the >> inside dope. >> >> It's "up to Elecraft" to do business however they see fit. That is a >> fact. >> >> One thing I can say with certainty is that there are plenty of high >> quality speaker sets available at retail. The Bose Companion 2 >> multimedia speakers are particularly effective, and at $99 SRP it's >> going to be difficult for Elecraft to compete (tooling costs, unit >> price, or reproduction quality). I'm pretty sure Elecraft folks have >> thought of this angle as well. They run a tight ship and don't miss >> much. >> >> 73, >> matt W6NIA >> >> On Tue, 23 Apr 2013 11:44:04 -0400, you wrote: >> >> > >> > >> >It is not easy for me to understand the rationale of many of the hams >> that recommend buying an old, battered CB speaker at a flea market to shine >> beside their K3/P3/KPA500 line up. It is like spending on an Armani suit >> and wearing it with a pair of old dirty sneakers bought second-hand at a >> yard sale. No kidding, I have seen that too! >> > >> >And all this for the sake of Elecraft, to save the company from the >> "shame" of having to use their talent to build a matching speaker >> enclosure? Somebody should have told Arthur Collins, but it is too late for >> that, I guess. Can you imagine somebody buying a Rolls Royce without tires >> only because Rolls Royce doesn't make tires? >> > >> >And last but not least, what is the science of designing a transceiver >> with so many advanced features if the output product, the sound coming out >> of the speaker, is mediocre at best? Why should a company hang the >> reputation of its product on some other manufacturer of cheap computer >> speakers that will not care for the excellence and expertise invested in >> Elecraft's flagship system? >> > >> >The sound coming out of the K3 is mediocre at best. It is up to Elecraft >> to provide a solution. If need be, I am willing to pay for it. >> > >> >Ramón Tristani >> >[hidden email] >> > >> > >> > >> >______________________________________________________________ >> >Elecraft mailing list >> >Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> >Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> >Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> > >> >This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> >Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> ______________________________________________________________ >> Elecraft mailing list >> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft >> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm >> Post: mailto:[hidden email] >> >> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net >> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html >> Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4
I have a W2-A watt meter with 2KW directional coupler that I want to
sell so I can buy a T-1 ATU for my QRP rig. Asking $160.00 + shipping from zip code 32312. If interested email me. Thanks, Randy Moore AI4CO ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3 Speaker, Season finale
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
I was fortunate to find a used pair of Sounds Sweet speakers for an excellent price at a recent fleamarket.
I have to say they are well worth the trouble and expense if you can find them. They are not amplified so there is no interference, and they sound marvelously clear and rich. -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jim Brown Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 10:46 AM To: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Speaker, Season finale On 4/23/2013 8:44 AM, Ramon Tristani wrote: > And last but not least, what is the science of designing a transceiver with so many advanced features if the output product, the sound coming out of the speaker, is mediocre at best? As a retired audio professional (Fellow of the Audio Engineering Society), ham for 55 years, and contester since 1957, I have several thoughts on this question. 1) The science of loudspeaker design, while well understood, is so far removed from the science of building high quality radio transceivers that it makes no sense for a small company like Elecraft to devote their limited engineering resources to designing and building one. 2) For any serious operating, I've always used headphones. I use a loudspeaker only for casual operation, and for monitoring while I'm in the shack doing somethings else. 3) The "ideal" loudspeaker for ham radio is nothing more or less than one that has very smooth, uniform ("flat) frequency response in the range of 200 - 4,000 Hz, maintains that uniformity over a wide range of angles where the listener is likely to have his/her ears. It should either be sufficiently efficient that it can be made loud enough by the relatively small speaker amplifiers in the K3, or it should have its own internal power amplifier. The problem with loudspeakers having internal power amplifiers is that nearly all I have seen, including some rather expensive pro models, have serious RFI problems. Loudspeakers that are relatively small tend to have smooth response over wider angles, but they also tend to be less efficient (that is, they take a bit more power to drive). Bottom line -- Elecraft made exactly the right decision to stay out of the loudspeaker business. If you want an outboard loudspeaker for ANY ham rig, simply look in the pro audio world for one that has flat response, sensitivity of at least 80 dBSPL for 1 watt at 1 meter, and fits on your operating desk. Look for audio products, not radio products. The best I know of is the RCF MR55, which is made in Italy and distributed worldwide. I've used them in some very high quality professional installations. http://www.rcf.it/products/installed-sound-systems/monitor-series/mr-55 Exception -- for many years, Motorola has marketed some small loudspeakers designed for use with their commercial VHF/UHF transceivers that works well for ham radio. 73, Jim k9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10
http://www.adorama.com/RCFMR55W.html The specifications are great and unlike most consumer grade products are actually published :) $212 each speaker is a bit rich however. Rolex vs Seiko? On Apr 23, 2013, at 12:46 PM, Jim Brown wrote: > On 4/23/2013 8:44 AM, Ramon Tristani wrote: >> And last but not least, what is the science of designing a transceiver with so many advanced features if the output product, the sound coming out of the speaker, is mediocre at best? > > As a retired audio professional (Fellow of the Audio Engineering Society), ham for 55 years, and contester since 1957, I have several thoughts on this question. > > 1) The science of loudspeaker design, while well understood, is so far removed from the science of building high quality radio transceivers that it makes no sense for a small company like Elecraft to devote their limited engineering resources to designing and building one. > > 2) For any serious operating, I've always used headphones. I use a loudspeaker only for casual operation, and for monitoring while I'm in the shack doing somethings else. > > 3) The "ideal" loudspeaker for ham radio is nothing more or less than one that has very smooth, uniform ("flat) frequency response in the range of 200 - 4,000 Hz, maintains that uniformity over a wide range of angles where the listener is likely to have his/her ears. It should either be sufficiently efficient that it can be made loud enough by the relatively small speaker amplifiers in the K3, or it should have its own internal power amplifier. > > The problem with loudspeakers having internal power amplifiers is that nearly all I have seen, including some rather expensive pro models, have serious RFI problems. > > Loudspeakers that are relatively small tend to have smooth response over wider angles, but they also tend to be less efficient (that is, they take a bit more power to drive). > > Bottom line -- Elecraft made exactly the right decision to stay out of the loudspeaker business. If you want an outboard loudspeaker for ANY ham rig, simply look in the pro audio world for one that has flat response, sensitivity of at least 80 dBSPL for 1 watt at 1 meter, and fits on your operating desk. Look for audio products, not radio products. The best I know of is the RCF MR55, which is made in Italy and distributed worldwide. I've used them in some very high quality professional installations. > > http://www.rcf.it/products/installed-sound-systems/monitor-series/mr-55 > > Exception -- for many years, Motorola has marketed some small loudspeakers designed for use with their commercial VHF/UHF transceivers that works well for ham radio. > > 73, Jim k9YC > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3 Speaker, Season finale [Thread closed]
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Folks, This thread was closed this morning to limit list noise level.
73, Eric List Moderator elecraft.com _..._ On Apr 24, 2013, at 8:13 PM, "Ron D'Eau Claire" <[hidden email]> wrote: > Keep in mind that the requirement is not onerous. A typical "hi-fi" speaker > is NOT needed since the KX3, like all communications receivers, is severely > restricts both the high and low frequency audio response. > > The speaker only needs to reproduce the range from about 300 to 2800 Hz > without distortion and with a smooth frequency response. > > By comparison, a minimal "hi-fi" speaker would be expected to deliver a > smooth response from 50 Hz or less to over 15,000 Hz. > > It's not just communications receivers that have limited fidelity too. Many > A.M. radio stations limit their audio response to between 100 Hz and 5,000 > Hz. Some less. But without distortion and a well-controlled response, their > audio can be very clean and pleasant sounding. > > Long ago when I worked on broadcast gear (1950's ;-), A.M. stations pushed > their upper audio response much higher. But, when FM became popular in car > radios, many customers complained that they were "noisy" with lots of hiss. > Of course that's because A.M. radios detect background static while F.M. > radios suppress such noise. A.M. car radio manufacturers discovered that > customer complaints were greatly reduced by limiting the upper frequency > response on A.M. to 5,000 Hz or less. > > I've seen similar observations by many on the reflector here who discovered > that their rig sounded much "quieter" when the equalizer was set to suppress > the upper frequency range. > > 73 Ron AC7AC > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Randy Moore-2
As of now the W2 is sold. This list is great, it sold about ten minutes
after I posted it. Thanks to all that replied. Randy Moore AI4CO On 4/24/2013 7:59 PM, Randy Moore wrote: > I have a W2-A watt meter with 2KW directional coupler that I want to > sell so I can buy a T-1 ATU for my QRP rig. > > Asking $160.00 + shipping from zip code 32312. > > If interested email me. > > Thanks, > > Randy Moore > AI4CO > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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