K3: Storing PWR level in memories
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I hate to add one more request to the firmware enhancements list that
Elecraft is diligently working on but here goes. Many were anxiously awaiting the PWR SET>Per Band menu item which has now been implemented in the current firmware. Especially anxious were those that are driving SS amplifiers. While this is a welcome addition I don't think it is enough to protect amps, especially the SS amps. Many times I find myself sometimes using the full 100 watts out of the K3 and other times driving an amp which may require considerably less power out of the K3 and doing this on all bands that I normally use. There is still a danger in driving an amp even with the Power Per Band option. It may be a few minutes later or several days later when I decide to go back to a band that I had last set my power level to 100 watts. If during this time I decide to crank up the amp I may not realize that the K3 is now set to 100 watts in that there is no visual indication unless I turn or tap the PWR control. Now I transmit with the amp inline and suffer the potential consequences. Yes, all of us should be more careful but with what seems to be expanded usage of the general purpose, quick, and per band memories perhaps there is an easy solution. Might it be a good idea to allow the storage and then recall of the power level in those memories on a per band basis? Personally I would like to store a power level appropriate for driving my amp on each band. So when I select a particular band via a memory recall I can be absolutely assured that it is at a specific and known level each and every time that I use one of the memories. If my intention is to run the full 100 watts than I will need to crank the PWR control. Better doing that than risk damage to an amp. The current PWR SET>Per Band would remain intact. Comments? Jerry N8BM _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
SV: K3: Storing PWR level in memories
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Jerry/N8BM said:
Might it be a good idea to allow the storage and then recall of the power level in those memories on a per band basis? Personally I would like to store a power level appropriate for driving my amp on each band. So when I select a particular band via a memory recall I can be absolutely assured that it is at a specific and known level each and every time that I use one of the memories. If my intention is to run the full 100 watts than I will need to crank the PWR control. Better doing that than risk damage to an amp. The current PWR SET>Per Band would remain intact. ..and I tend to agree even if -so far- I have not been using any solid state amps, one of my tube amp:s is a high risk amp while the other one can easily take 100 W+. I would appreciate this function if it is possible, Wayne et al. Len SM7BIC _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: SV: K3: Storing PWR level in memories
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Aren't we in danger of going too far down the line of absolving people from having to think for themselves. However did we manage with radios that just put out the power set on the power control? Personally if I can remember what power I set it is more likely to be what I last set it to than what was set whenever I stored that frequency in memory. Some times I may want to use QRP, some times I may not. I would find it very annoying to have the power level reset whenever I change band or recall a frequency from memory.
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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In reply to this post by Jerry_N8BM
I have decided to throw in my 2 cents on the subject.
I run a PW-1 solid state amp with the K3. I have been doing the Beta ALC mods and testing with my amp and the K3. I have been doing adjustments and have reached a fairly happy medium with the firmware and hardware mods. However---- I feel that with my SS amp, Quadras, THP's and others, all that is really needed is a maximum power output setting, preferably by band, for the K3. I would like to be able to set these band power outputs for a maximum needed to drive my amp to its rated limits. You WOULD NOT be able to easily reset the upper output limits but could lower the output at will with the panel power adjustment. Perhaps a matrix such as used with the Transmit and Receive equalizers would work. Everyone is not going to use this function but it would be critically important to hams using some types of transverters without attenuators and as mentioned to owners of very expensive and sometimes very unforgiving Solid State amps. ALC would still be used but you would still have the crowbar type of overdrive protection. Mike WA8EBM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry.Van" <[hidden email]> To: <[hidden email]> Sent: Monday, June 09, 2008 3:14 PM Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Storing PWR level in memories >I hate to add one more request to the firmware enhancements list that > Elecraft is diligently working on but here goes. > > Many were anxiously awaiting the PWR SET>Per Band menu item which has > now been implemented in the current firmware. Especially anxious were > those that are driving SS amplifiers. While this is a welcome addition > I don't think it is enough to protect amps, especially the SS amps. > > Many times I find myself sometimes using the full 100 watts out of the > K3 and other times driving an amp which may require considerably less > power out of the K3 and doing this on all bands that I normally use. > There is still a danger in driving an amp even with the Power Per Band > option. It may be a few minutes later or several days later when I > decide to go back to a band that I had last set my power level to 100 > watts. If during this time I decide to crank up the amp I may not > realize that the K3 is now set to 100 watts in that there is no visual > indication unless I turn or tap the PWR control. Now I transmit with > the amp inline and suffer the potential consequences. Yes, all of us > should be more careful but with what seems to be expanded usage of the > general purpose, quick, and per band memories perhaps there is an easy > solution. > > Might it be a good idea to allow the storage and then recall of the > power level in those memories on a per band basis? Personally I would > like to store a power level appropriate for driving my amp on each band. > So when I select a particular band via a memory recall I can be > absolutely assured that it is at a specific and known level each and > every time that I use one of the memories. If my intention is to run > the full 100 watts than I will need to crank the PWR control. Better > doing that than risk damage to an amp. The current PWR SET>Per Band > would remain intact. > > Comments? > > Jerry N8BM > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: SV: K3: Storing PWR level in memories
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In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO
I had the same thought when I first read the proposal, Julian. Plus I
can see how including a power level in the memory might cause the very problem Jerry is trying to prevent. If I normally don't use an amp on a certain band but forget that I had the amp in line and call up the 'full power' memory for that band, I've got a crispy input. However, that being said, I think Jerry does bring up a legitimate point. I've noticed from looking at the pictures and reading the manual (don't have my K3 yet), that it doesn't seem possible to see what the current power setting is without at least touching the CMP/ PWR knob. On radios with a dedicated power control, I could get a rough idea of the power setting by looking at the index mark on the knob. 73 -- Joe KB8AP On Jun 9, 2008, at 2:57 PM, G4ILO wrote: > >> >> Jerry/N8BM said: >> >> Might it be a good idea to allow the storage and then recall of the >> power level in those memories on a per band basis? >> > Aren't we in danger of going too far down the line of absolving > people from > having to think for themselves. However did we manage with radios > that just > put out the power set on the power control? > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: SV: K3: Storing PWR level in memories
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I understand the problem, but it seems to me to be just an extra thing you have to check when you change bands, like whether you have the correct antenna selected and that it is tuned up. I agree that it would be nice to have a safeguard, but I think it would just be confusing to have the power level change when you change another setting unrelated to power. I would find it equally undesirable for memories to store filter settings, keyer speed, VOX setting or anything else. Storing the mode only makes sense because we have band plans. Mike seems to be suggesting some kind of menu configuration option where you could set a maximum output power per band. I don't see anything wrong with that. But storing power level in memories seems to me to be completely the wrong solution to the problem of not being able to tell the power setting by looking at the knob. I'd still be having to turn the knob to check what the power was whenever I recalled a memory. Perhaps the K3 could show the power in the VFO B display for a couple of seconds after any band change or memory recall?
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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In reply to this post by Jerry_N8BM
Simple and elegant solution which you stated yourself.
Turn or tap the power control before firing up the amp. Jerry.Van wrote: > I hate to add one more request to the firmware enhancements list that > Elecraft is diligently working on but here goes. > > Many were anxiously awaiting the PWR SET>Per Band menu item which has > now been implemented in the current firmware. Especially anxious were > those that are driving SS amplifiers. While this is a welcome > addition I don't think it is enough to protect amps, especially the SS > amps. > > Many times I find myself sometimes using the full 100 watts out of the > K3 and other times driving an amp which may require considerably less > power out of the K3 and doing this on all bands that I normally use. > There is still a danger in driving an amp even with the Power Per Band > option. It may be a few minutes later or several days later when I > decide to go back to a band that I had last set my power level to 100 > watts. If during this time I decide to crank up the amp I may not > realize that the K3 is now set to 100 watts in that there is no visual > indication unless I turn or tap the PWR control. Now I transmit with > the amp inline and suffer the potential consequences. Yes, all of us > should be more careful but with what seems to be expanded usage of the > general purpose, quick, and per band memories perhaps there is an easy > solution. > > Might it be a good idea to allow the storage and then recall of the > power level in those memories on a per band basis? Personally I would > like to store a power level appropriate for driving my amp on each > band. So when I select a particular band via a memory recall I can be > absolutely assured that it is at a specific and known level each and > every time that I use one of the memories. If my intention is to run > the full 100 watts than I will need to crank the PWR control. Better > doing that than risk damage to an amp. The current PWR SET>Per Band > would remain intact. > > Comments? > > Jerry N8BM > > > _______________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Post to: [hidden email] > You must be a subscriber to post to the list. > Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): > http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm > Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO
Absolutely!
This is getting ridiculous. How about if we have the rig turn down the bed and put a mint on the pillow as well? G4ILO wrote: > Lennart Michaëlsson wrote: > >> Jerry/N8BM said: >> >> Might it be a good idea to allow the storage and then recall of the >> power level in those memories on a per band basis? Personally I would >> like to store a power level appropriate for driving my amp on each band. >> So when I select a particular band via a memory recall I can be >> absolutely assured that it is at a specific and known level each and >> every time that I use one of the memories. If my intention is to run >> the full 100 watts than I will need to crank the PWR control. Better >> doing that than risk damage to an amp. >> >> > Aren't we in danger of going too far down the line of absolving people from > having to think for themselves. However did we manage with radios that just > put out the power set on the power control? > > Personally if I can remember what power I set it is more likely to be what I > last set it to than what was set whenever I stored that frequency in memory. > Some times I may want to use QRP, some times I may not. I would find it very > annoying to have the power level reset whenever I change band or recall a > frequency from memory. > > ----- > Julian, G4ILO K3 s/n: 222 K2 s/n: 392 > G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com > Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: SV: K3: Storing PWR level in memories
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In reply to this post by Julian, G4ILO
Has anyone defined what the semantics are for a memory location? Are
you using it as a preset for certain values or are you using it to change the state of the radio? I know that when I set a memory for a radio I want all of the current state to go into that memory location. That would include (but not be limited to) frequency, TX/RX split, mode, power, antenna, etc. That way when I select a given memory location, everything about the radio is set to how the radio was when the memory was stored. If you only want to change a few things with a "memory" then I think what you are talking about is what I would call a preset. I might have a preset for mode but not frequency or frequency without changing mode. The goal here is to reduce the number of buttons I need to press to change operating modes. So "memory" is not the same thing to all people. It helps to understand the semantics of what you mean when you use the word. If I were driving this from some kind of a computer display attached to the radio, when I defined some kind of "memory" location I would probably have a series of checkboxes for what changes and what doesn't. Basically for each memory I would have a "save/don't-care" bit for all the possible parameters. Save means, "what is in the memory would overwrite the current setting of the radio." Don't-care means, "whatever is currently set into the radio is not changed when you recall the memory." That would be very universal. It could also prove *very* confusing to the next person using my radio and recalling my "memories". And then there is the question of complexity and confusion. We have an excellent example of all the bad things you can do to a user interface as a result of "being helpful." Look at the myriad ways one can screw up the way Windows is configured! And Microsoft keeps adding more! Eventually you reach the point where the UI hinders understanding and usefulness. One of the things that I learned from UI design is that there should be very few ways to change something, preferable only one. That way the next person can sit down and use the device the same way you did. Anyway, I would much rather see Elecraft focus on simplicity and getting all the base functions to work before branching off into all sorts of bells and whistles in the user interface. (I am still trying to decide if I am going to purchase a K3 for myself. It is that or the Flex 5000 and I am still on the fence. I am finding all the feedback here *very* enlightening. One good thing about waiting -- things get better and cheaper.) -- 73 de Brian, WB6RQN Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: SV: K3: Storing PWR level in memories
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You make a very good point, and I suspect that you are right. Which means that there is no "one size fits all" solution. The end result in software tends to be programs with so many user definable settings you need to go on a course just to find out how to make it do what you want.
Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392 K3 #222 KX3 #110
* G4ILO's Shack - http://www.g4ilo.com * KComm - http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html * KTune - http://www.g4ilo.com/ktune.html |
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>> So "memory" is not the same thing to all people.
>> > You make a very good point, and I suspect that you are right. Which means > that there is no "one size fits all" solution. The end result in software > tends to be programs with so many user definable settings you need to go on > a course just to find out how to make it do what you want. aka EMACS, as in "The EMACS effect." 73, Lyle KK7P _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: SV: K3: Storing PWR level in memories
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If anybody wants my K2 control program for EMACS please let me know.
I haven't updated it for the K3 additional features yet. Leigh PA/WA5ZNU Ham since 1969, EMACS user since 1979. > aka EMACS, as in "The EMACS effect." > > 73, > > Lyle KK7P > _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
Re: SV: K3: Storing PWR level in memories
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In reply to this post by KK7P
On Jun 10, 2008, at 10:55 AM, Lyle Johnson wrote: >>> So "memory" is not the same thing to all people. >>> >> You make a very good point, and I suspect that you are right. Which >> means >> that there is no "one size fits all" solution. The end result in >> software >> tends to be programs with so many user definable settings you need >> to go on >> a course just to find out how to make it do what you want. > > aka EMACS, as in "The EMACS effect." That is IT Lyle! The answer is (are?) e-lisp s-expressions! Put an e- lisp interpreter in there and then you don't have to do anything more! I always knew you were brilliant. -- 73 de Brian, WB6RQN Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com _______________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Post to: [hidden email] You must be a subscriber to post to the list. Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.): http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com |
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