K3: Strange VFO Behavior

[Ed K1EP]

I noticed this behavior this evening and I was wondering if anyone
else could duplicate it.

I have VFO A on 6M USB and VFO B on 10M USB.   When I turn the VFO B
knob, the VFO frequency changes, but the mode changes to LSB.  If I
turn VFO A now, the VFO A frequency changes and the mode goes back to
USB.  If I do a band down, I don't get 10M on VFO A, instead I still
see 6M, plus get a PLL error message flash by.

Does anyone else see this?


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[Leigh L. Klotz Jr WA5ZNU]

Yes, when I asked they said don't do that: specifically, don't put VFO B
on a different band from VFO A until the subreceiver comes out.  It will
also switch in the bandpass filters for VFO B's band any time you touch
VFO B.
Leigh/WA5ZNU

On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 4:16 pm, Ed K1EP wrote:

> I noticed this behavior this evening and I was wondering if anyone else
> could duplicate it.
>
> I have VFO A on 6M USB and VFO B on 10M USB.   When I turn the VFO B
> knob, the VFO frequency changes, but the mode changes to LSB.  If I
> turn VFO A now, the VFO A frequency changes and the mode goes back to
> USB.  If I do a band down, I don't get 10M on VFO A, instead I still
> see 6M, plus get a PLL error message flash by.
>
> Does anyone else see this?
>
>

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[Ed K1EP]

Reminds me of the old comedy routine -

Patient: Doctor, it hurts when I do this.
Doctor:  Don't do it.

If I am casually tuning around, hunting DX and I want to check on two
different bands (like the current multi band/op dxpeditions), the
easiest thing for me to do is put one freq/band in one VFO and the
other freq/band in the other VFO.   Hitting A/B allows me to
conveniently switch between the two.  Seems fine as long as I don't
accidentally hit VFO B in the process.  I don't have exceptionally
fat fingers, but I do manage to hit the wrong knobs once in a
while.  I don't think that it is good behavior for this to
happen.  What if you don't purchase the second receiver?  Are you not
allowed to do this?

At 1/17/2008 07:36 PM, Leigh L Klotz, Jr. wrote:

>Yes, when I asked they said don't do that: specifically, don't put
>VFO B on a different band from VFO A until the subreceiver comes
>out.  It will also switch in the bandpass filters for VFO B's band
>any time you touch VFO B.
>Leigh/WA5ZNU
>
>On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 4:16 pm, Ed K1EP wrote:
>>I noticed this behavior this evening and I was wondering if anyone
>>else could duplicate it.
>>
>>I have VFO A on 6M USB and VFO B on 10M USB.   When I turn the VFO
>>B knob, the VFO frequency changes, but the mode changes to LSB.  If
>>I turn VFO A now, the VFO A frequency changes and the mode goes
>>back to USB.  If I do a band down, I don't get 10M on VFO A,
>>instead I still see 6M, plus get a PLL error message flash by.
>>
>>Does anyone else see this?
>>

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[Bill W4ZV]

K1EP wrote

If I am casually tuning around, hunting DX and I want to check on two
different bands (like the current multi band/op dxpeditions), the
easiest thing for me to do is put one freq/band in one VFO and the
other freq/band in the other VFO.   Hitting A/B allows me to
conveniently switch between the two.  Seems fine as long as I don't
accidentally hit VFO B in the process.  I don't have exceptionally
fat fingers, but I do manage to hit the wrong knobs once in a
while.  I don't think that it is good behavior for this to
happen.  What if you don't purchase the second receiver?  Are you not
allowed to do this?

Why not tune VFO A to desired frequency on 10m and then BAND^ to desired frequency on 6m.  Then you can toggle between BAND^ and BAND Down with one touch.  Same number of keystrokes as A/B but you are switching the BPFs correctly.  

73,  Bill W4ZV

[k7svv]

Ed,
        I just went through this last week.  It is a known problem and is on
Wayne's things-to-do list.  What ever you do, don't press the SPLT button to
go into split  mode when you have the condition you described because if you
do, you will screw up the band sequence when you step through the bands.  At
one point I had 3 80m bands and no 60m and 40m when I cycled through the
bands.  Until Wayne gets it fixed, be careful to not have different bands in
VFO A and B.

John    [K7SVV]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed K1EP" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 5:16 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Strange VFO Behavior

>I noticed this behavior this evening and I was wondering if anyone else
>could duplicate it.
>
> I have VFO A on 6M USB and VFO B on 10M USB.   When I turn the VFO B knob,
> the VFO frequency changes, but the mode changes to LSB.  If I turn VFO A
> now, the VFO A frequency changes and the mode goes back to USB.  If I do a
> band down, I don't get 10M on VFO A, instead I still see 6M, plus get a
> PLL error message flash by.
>
> Does anyone else see this?
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database:
> 269.19.6/1229 - Release Date: 1/17/2008 11:12 AM
>
>

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[dj7mgq]

Hi Ed,

I ran into this a few weeks back, reported it to Elecraft and was told
that this is a known problem. Imho, it is not a trivial problem, so the
firmware fix may take awhile.

vy 73 de toby

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[David Cutter]

I hope someone is making a list of tips like this, they will be invaluable
for us all.

David
G3UNA

Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Strange VFO Behavior


>  What ever you do, don't press the SPLT button to go into split  mode when
> you have the condition you described because if you do, you will screw up
> the band sequence when you step through the bands.  At one point I had 3
> 80m bands and no 60m and 40m when I cycled through the bands.  Until Wayne
> gets it fixed, be careful to not have different bands in VFO A and B.
>
> John    [K7SVV]
>
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[M0XDF]

I may just have come across this, at one point I couldn't get 160m - I power
cycled and all was ok.

John, if someone does get MBS ('Missing Bands Syndrome'), does a power cycle
fix it?

On 18/1/08 02:49, "John   [K7SVV]" <[hidden email]> sent:

> Ed,
>         I just went through this last week.  It is a known problem and is on
> Wayne's things-to-do list.  What ever you do, don't press the SPLT button to
> go into split  mode when you have the condition you described because if you
> do, you will screw up the band sequence when you step through the bands.  At
> one point I had 3 80m bands and no 60m and 40m when I cycled through the
> bands.  Until Wayne gets it fixed, be careful to not have different bands in
> VFO A and B.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ed K1EP" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 5:16 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Strange VFO Behavior

>I noticed this behavior this evening and I was wondering if anyone else
>could duplicate it.
>
> I have VFO A on 6M USB and VFO B on 10M USB.   When I turn the VFO B knob,
> the VFO frequency changes, but the mode changes to LSB.  If I turn VFO A
> now, the VFO A frequency changes and the mode goes back to USB.  If I do a
> band down, I don't get 10M on VFO A, instead I still see 6M, plus get a
> PLL error message flash by.
>
> Does anyone else see this?

--
The universe is like a safe to which there is a combination. But the
combination is locked up in the safe.
-Peter De Vries, editor, novelist (1910-1993)


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[M0XDF]

Yes, or rather Wayne is maintaining a operating Tip page on Ecraft site and
zerobeat has LOTS of info, including error message tips and FAQ etc at
http://www.zerobeat.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page


On 18/1/08 07:22, "David Cutter" <[hidden email]> sent:

> I hope someone is making a list of tips like this, they will be invaluable
> for us all.
>
> David
> G3UNA
>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Strange VFO Behavior
>
>
>>  What ever you do, don't press the SPLT button to go into split  mode when
>> you have the condition you described because if you do, you will screw up
>> the band sequence when you step through the bands.  At one point I had 3
>> 80m bands and no 60m and 40m when I cycled through the bands.  Until Wayne
>> gets it fixed, be careful to not have different bands in VFO A and B.
>>
>> John    [K7SVV]

--
Trust in Allah, but tie your camel. -Arabic saying



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[Julian, G4ILO]

David Cutter wrote

I hope someone is making a list of tips like this, they will be invaluable
for us all.

Preferably in a form that can be printed out and stuck on the wall. I've already hit several "issues" that were known faults. Trouble is, I'm getting to the stage where I can't remember something I was told five minutes ago, never mind what I may have read a week or more back. :(

[Ed K1EP]

At 1/18/2008 03:57 AM, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:
>I may just have come across this, at one point I couldn't get 160m - I power
>cycled and all was ok.
>
>John, if someone does get MBS ('Missing Bands Syndrome'), does a power cycle
>fix it?

I have come across that several times.  You can spin the dial quite a
bit (not recommended) or just manually enter a frequency in the band
that is missing.  I use the band up or down button to get to the band
that is missing and just enter a frequency manually through the front
panel buttons.

>On 18/1/08 02:49, "John   [K7SVV]" <[hidden email]> sent:
>
> > Ed,
> >         I just went through this last week.  It is a known
> problem and is on
> > Wayne's things-to-do list.  What ever you do, don't press the
> SPLT button to
> > go into split  mode when you have the condition you described
> because if you
> > do, you will screw up the band sequence when you step through the
> bands.  At
> > one point I had 3 80m bands and no 60m and 40m when I cycled through the
> > bands.  Until Wayne gets it fixed, be careful to not have
> different bands in
> > VFO A and B.
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Ed K1EP" <[hidden email]>
>To: <[hidden email]>
>Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 5:16 PM
>Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Strange VFO Behavior
>
> >I noticed this behavior this evening and I was wondering if anyone else
> >could duplicate it.
> >
> > I have VFO A on 6M USB and VFO B on 10M USB.   When I turn the VFO B knob,
> > the VFO frequency changes, but the mode changes to LSB.  If I turn VFO A
> > now, the VFO A frequency changes and the mode goes back to USB.  If I do a
> > band down, I don't get 10M on VFO A, instead I still see 6M, plus get a
> > PLL error message flash by.
> >
> > Does anyone else see this?
>--
>The universe is like a safe to which there is a combination. But the
>combination is locked up in the safe.
>-Peter De Vries, editor, novelist (1910-1993)
>
>
>_______________________________________________
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[David Cutter]

Both good sources, but a list of  "don't do this..."  as advised by John
[K7SVV] might save a lot of headaches.  It would be an impossible task to
make such a list from scratch, but if operators find things out the hard
way, it might also lead to software changes.

David
G3UNA

----- Original Message -----
From: "David Ferrington, M0XDF" <[hidden email]>
To: "David Cutter" <[hidden email]>; "Crafters"
<[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 9:04 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] List of tips

> Yes, or rather Wayne is maintaining a operating Tip page on Ecraft site
> and
> zerobeat has LOTS of info, including error message tips and FAQ etc at
> http://www.zerobeat.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
>
>
> On 18/1/08 07:22, "David Cutter" <[hidden email]> sent:
>
>> I hope someone is making a list of tips like this, they will be
>> invaluable
>> for us all.
>>
>> David
>> G3UNA
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Strange VFO Behavior
>>
>>
>>>  What ever you do, don't press the SPLT button to go into split  mode
>>> when
>>> you have the condition you described because if you do, you will screw
>>> up
>>> the band sequence when you step through the bands.  At one point I had 3
>>> 80m bands and no 60m and 40m when I cycled through the bands.  Until
>>> Wayne
>>> gets it fixed, be careful to not have different bands in VFO A and B.
>>>
>>> John    [K7SVV]

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[M0XDF]

I'll ask for a 'DontDoThis' page on the wiki and start if with that
If anyone has and good (bad?) don't do this's, let me have them please.


On 18/1/08 10:36, "David Cutter" <[hidden email]> sent:

> Both good sources, but a list of  "don't do this..."  as advised by John
> [K7SVV] might save a lot of headaches.  It would be an impossible task to
> make such a list from scratch, but if operators find things out the hard
> way, it might also lead to software changes.
>
> David
> G3UNA
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Ferrington, M0XDF" <[hidden email]>
> To: "David Cutter" <[hidden email]>; "Crafters"
> <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Friday, January 18, 2008 9:04 AM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] List of tips
>
>
>> Yes, or rather Wayne is maintaining a operating Tip page on Ecraft site
>> and
>> zerobeat has LOTS of info, including error message tips and FAQ etc at
>> http://www.zerobeat.net/mediawiki/index.php/Main_Page
>>
>>
>> On 18/1/08 07:22, "David Cutter" <[hidden email]> sent:
>>
>>> I hope someone is making a list of tips like this, they will be
>>> invaluable
>>> for us all.
>>>
>>> David
>>> G3UNA
>>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Strange VFO Behavior
>>>
>>>
>>>>  What ever you do, don't press the SPLT button to go into split  mode
>>>> when
>>>> you have the condition you described because if you do, you will screw
>>>> up
>>>> the band sequence when you step through the bands.  At one point I had 3
>>>> 80m bands and no 60m and 40m when I cycled through the bands.  Until
>>>> Wayne
>>>> gets it fixed, be careful to not have different bands in VFO A and B.
>>>>
>>>> John    [K7SVV]
>
> _______________________________________________
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--
The bamboo that bends is stronger than the oak that resists. -Japanese
proverb


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[M0XDF]

How did you set that up, I have found I can't get VFOA to go out of 10M band
when VFO B is set on 10M.
And when I enter freq for VFO A directly, say 51.0, VFO B changes to that
too.


On 18/1/08 00:16, "Ed K1EP" <[hidden email]> sent:

> I have VFO A on 6M USB and VFO B on 10M USB.   When I turn the VFO B
> knob, the VFO frequency changes, but the mode changes to LSB.  If I
> turn VFO A now, the VFO A frequency changes and the mode goes back to
> USB.  If I do a band down, I don't get 10M on VFO A, instead I still
> see 6M, plus get a PLL error message flash by.

--
Power is no substitute for Skill.


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[M0XDF]

Hows this?
http://www.zerobeat.net/mediawiki/index.php/DontDoThis

On 18/1/08 09:56, "G4ILO" <[hidden email]> sent:
> David Cutter wrote:
>>
>> I hope someone is making a list of tips like this, they will be invaluable
>> for us all.
>>
> Preferably in a form that can be printed out and stuck on the wall. I've
> already hit several "issues" that were known faults. Trouble is, I'm getting
> to the stage where I can't remember something I was told five minutes ago,
> never mind what I may have read a week or more back. :(

--
If you have the same ideas as everybody else but have them one week earlier
than everyone else then you will be hailed as a visionary. But if you have
them five years earlier you will be named a lunatic. -Barry Jones,
politician, author (1932- )


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[Ed K1EP]

At 1/18/2008 06:07 AM, David Ferrington, M0XDF wrote:
>How did you set that up, I have found I can't get VFOA to go out of 10M band
>when VFO B is set on 10M.
>And when I enter freq for VFO A directly, say 51.0, VFO B changes to that
>too.

Good question!  On 6M, I had set up the M1-M4 quick memories for
50.125, 50.110, etc.  For some reason, when I used them yesterday,
VFO B ended up on 10M.

>On 18/1/08 00:16, "Ed K1EP" <[hidden email]> sent:
>
> > I have VFO A on 6M USB and VFO B on 10M USB.   When I turn the VFO B
> > knob, the VFO frequency changes, but the mode changes to LSB.  If I
> > turn VFO A now, the VFO A frequency changes and the mode goes back to
> > USB.  If I do a band down, I don't get 10M on VFO A, instead I still
> > see 6M, plus get a PLL error message flash by.
>
>--
>Power is no substitute for Skill.

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[Don Wilhelm-4]

As long as that list is purged when every firmware upgrade comes out, I
would agree.  Usually such lists are never updated and it becomes a
'worry list' left there to confuse new owners long after the problem has
been fixed.

73,
Don W3FPR

David Cutter wrote:
> Both good sources, but a list of  "don't do this..."  as advised by
> John [K7SVV] might save a lot of headaches.  It would be an impossible
> task to make such a list from scratch, but if operators find things
> out the hard way, it might also lead to software changes.
>
> David
> G3UNA
>
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[M0XDF]

Since I've started it, I'll undertake to identify old entries that are no
longer valid as soon as I'm made aware of that.


On 18/1/08 13:47, "Don Wilhelm" <[hidden email]> sent:

> As long as that list is purged when every firmware upgrade comes out, I
> would agree.  Usually such lists are never updated and it becomes a
> 'worry list' left there to confuse new owners long after the problem has
> been fixed.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> David Cutter wrote:
>> Both good sources, but a list of  "don't do this..."  as advised by
>> John [K7SVV] might save a lot of headaches.  It would be an impossible
>> task to make such a list from scratch, but if operators find things
>> out the hard way, it might also lead to software changes.
>>
>> David
>> G3UNA
>>
> _______________________________________________
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--
Cats know exactly how we feel.  They don't give a damnŠ
but they know.


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[Don Nesbitt]

BTW:  this whole scenario is VERY EASY to fall into if you start tuning
around the Shortwave Bands and accidently bump VFO B and/or start cycling
through the bands.  The quickest "cure" I have found was to remember (ha!)
to return VFO A to the Ham Band frequency from which I started BEFORE I move
VFO B.  73 es hv fun -- Don N4HH  K3# 83

<SNIP>  

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of John [K7SVV]
Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2008 9:49 PM
To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Strange VFO Behavior

<SNIP>  At
one point I had 3 80m bands and no 60m and 40m when I cycled through the
bands.  Until Wayne gets it fixed, be careful to not have different bands in

VFO A and B.
<SNIP>


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[Thom LaCosta]

On Fri, 18 Jan 2008, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> As long as that list is purged when every firmware upgrade comes out, I would
> agree.  Usually such lists are never updated and it becomes a 'worry list'
> left there to confuse new owners long after the problem has been fixed.

And that's exactly why the folks involved ask for the input, cooperation and
participation of folks who have current information.

With out that, there will always be critical comments, and sometimes by the very
folks who could have been part of the solution.

Thom,EIEIO
Email, Internet, Electronic Information Officer

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