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K3 - Sub RX audio to right Line Out

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K3 - Sub RX audio to right Line Out

I am trying to set up the K3 Sub Rx audio to come out on the right Line
Out. I hear nothing on that side. The Main Audio is fine on the left
side.

I can't find anything about a setting that would control this. I
thought it would be automatic.

Can someone point me in the right direction please?

--
Buck
k4ia
K3# 101 KX3 #715

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Stan Gibbs, KR7C

Re: K3 - Sub RX audio to right Line Out

Can you hear the subrx in the headphones or speaker?

73, Stan - KR7C

Arie Kleingeld PA3A-2

Re: K3 - Sub RX audio to right Line Out

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Hi Buck,

You are talking about Line-out of the K3.
First question is: is it working ok with your headset on? So can you
hear the subRX that way?
If that is working as it should then do the next check:

First thing to look at: To what is the line-out connected?
If you connect it to a stereo computer speaker set, that is a good way
to check.
(Checking it by connecting it to a laptop mic-input is not a good check.
Some laptops have a mono mic input.)

73
Arie PA3A

K4ia via Elecraft schreef op 29-4-2014 4:32:
> I am trying to set up the K3 Sub Rx audio to come out on the right
> Line Out. I hear nothing on that side. The Main Audio is fine on
> the left side.
>
> I can't find anything about a setting that would control this. I
> thought it would be automatic.
>
> Can someone point me in the right direction please?
>

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Ken Pyke

Re: K3 - Sub RX audio to right Line Out

Hi Arie, make sure that the SUB is set up correctly (on the correct antenna-main or aux) by using the "B SET". Let us know how you make out..73 Ken VE3YK
On Tuesday, April 29, 2014 4:34:09 AM, Arie Kleingeld PA3A <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Buck,

You are talking about Line-out of the K3.
First question is: is it working ok with your headset on? So can you
hear the subRX that way?
If that is working as it should then do the next check:

First thing to look at: To what is the line-out connected?
If you connect it to a stereo computer speaker set, that is a good way
to check.
(Checking it by connecting it to a laptop mic-input is not a good check.
Some laptops have a mono mic input.)

73
Arie PA3A

K4ia via Elecraft schreef op 29-4-2014 4:32:
> I am trying to set up the K3 Sub Rx audio to come out on the right
> Line Out. I hear nothing on that side. The Main Audio is fine on
> the left side.
>
> I can't find anything about a setting that would control this. I
> thought it would be automatic.
>
> Can someone point me in the right direction please?
>

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: K3 - Sub RX audio to right Line Out

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Thanks Sam but that isn't it. I get the Sub RX audio just fine in the
headphones.

What I am missing is the Sub Rx on the right channel of the Line Out
jack on the back of the radio.

Buck
k4ia
K3# 101 KX3 #715

On 4/28/2014 10:57 PM, Sam Morgan wrote:

> also you might have the sub set to AUX Antenna with no antenna on it?
>
> hold RX ANT button and watch to see the vfo b window say MAIN
>
> On 4/28/2014 9:54 PM, Sam Morgan wrote:
>> maybe you have the 2m module and were using RF/SQL for squelch?
>>
>>
>> page 37 of manual tells all the tricks
>>
>> SUB AF gain normally sets the sub’s volume
>> level. Alternatively, SUB AF can be used as a
>> main/sub balance control (see CONFIG:SUB
>> AF). With stereo headphones or dual speakers,
>> you'll normally hear main on the left and sub on the
>> right. CONFIG:L-MIX-R selects various alternate
>> combinations of main/sub audio mixing.
>>
>> CONFIG:SPKRS must be set to 2 if you use
>> stereo speakers; otherwise, set it to 1.
>> SUB RF gain normally sets the sub receiver’s
>> RF GAIN level. If this knob is assigned to main/sub
>> squelch (CONFIG:SQ MAIN), then RF gain for
>> main/sub is controlled by the main RF gain control.
>>
>> hope that helps
>>
>> On 4/28/2014 9:32 PM, K4ia via Elecraft wrote:
>>> I am trying to set up the K3 Sub Rx audio to come out on the right Line
>>> Out. I hear nothing on that side. The Main Audio is fine on the left
>>> side.
>>>
>>> I can't find anything about a setting that would control this. I
>>> thought it would be automatic.
>>>
>>> Can someone point me in the right direction please?
>>>
>>
>

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Elecraft mailing list

Re: K3 - Sub RX audio to right Line Out

I played with that setting to no avail. I am going into a Microham
KeyerII which has a separate audio line for the Sub Rx. If I plug
headphones into the Line Out jack on the back of the K3, I hear signals
on the left side but nothing on the right so I am convinced it is the
output from the K3 that is missing, not an issue with the computer or MKII.

Buck
k4ia
K3# 101 KX3 #715

On 4/29/2014 8:05 AM, Sam Morgan wrote:

> hmmm, what is your Line Out set to?
> mine is the recommended 010
> also is the computer a desktop or laptop?
>
> On 4/29/2014 6:47 AM, K4ia wrote:
>> Thanks Sam but that isn't it. I get the Sub RX audio just fine in the
>> headphones.
>>
>> What I am missing is the Sub Rx on the right channel of the Line Out
>> jack on the back of the radio.
>>
>> Buck
>> k4ia
>> K3# 101 KX3 #715
>

Don Wilhelm-4

Re: K3 - Sub RX audio to right Line Out

Buck,

Either plug known working computer speakers directly into the line out
jack or play some source into the input of the MicroHam KeyerII to make
certain it is working as you expect.
Often added devices do not behave as we expect them to. Check those out
before concluding the K3 is the problem.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 4/29/2014 8:22 AM, K4ia via Elecraft wrote:
> I played with that setting to no avail. I am going into a Microham
> KeyerII which has a separate audio line for the Sub Rx. If I plug
> headphones into the Line Out jack on the back of the K3, I hear
> signals on the left side but nothing on the right so I am convinced it
> is the output from the K3 that is missing, not an issue with the
> computer or MKII.
>

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Ken Chandler

Re: K3 - Sub RX audio to right Line Out

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

I use the exact same setup, K3, MH MKII keyer, sub RX set to main, headphones connected to front panel, all ok here.
As someone stated, do make sure the sub is set to MAIN and NOT auxiliary.

Ken.. G0ORH

Sent from my iPad

> On 29 Apr 2014, at 13:22, K4ia via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> I played with that setting to no avail. I am going into a Microham KeyerII which has a separate audio line for the Sub Rx. If I plug headphones into the Line Out jack on the back of the K3, I hear signals on the left side but nothing on the right so I am convinced it is the output from the K3 that is missing, not an issue with the computer or MKII.
>
>
> Buck
> k4ia
> K3# 101 KX3 #715
>
>> On 4/29/2014 8:05 AM, Sam Morgan wrote:
>> hmmm, what is your Line Out set to?
>> mine is the recommended 010
>> also is the computer a desktop or laptop?
>>
>>> On 4/29/2014 6:47 AM, K4ia wrote:
>>> Thanks Sam but that isn't it. I get the Sub RX audio just fine in the
>>> headphones.
>>>
>>> What I am missing is the Sub Rx on the right channel of the Line Out
>>> jack on the back of the radio.
>>>
>>> Buck
>>> k4ia
>>> K3# 101 KX3 #715
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
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>
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W2RMS

Signal analysis with the P3

Hello everybody!
Ever since i got my new P3 - i've been looking at people's signals (naturally).
And i've noticed the following:
When using USB on 10 meters, talking locally, there are a couple of folks that use ICOM radios and i can see these spikes on the left of the carrier.
Normally, in USB, all the signal shows up on the right, correct?
But with these guys there's a lot of signal on the left as well.
And they sound a bit robotic, as if they were off frequency a bit. But they aren't.
When they switch to, say, Yaesu or a Kenwood i don't see that same graph.
But on the ICOM its very pronounced (except the older ones like 756 Pro III).
Saw it last night with an ICOM IC-7000.

Is this normal? Has anyone else noticed this?
This P3 is certainly giving me a lot of insight i didn't have before...

Thanks in advance!

Slava B
W2RMS
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NK7Z

Re: Signal analysis with the P3

Hi Slava,

I have also noticed this, is the robotic sound you are referring to a
low frequency sort of "wha wha" sound which modulates along with the
normal voice signal.

I have heard this before as well, and had a friend describe it as
"typical Icom", which leaves me in the dark about what it is, I add the
Icom comment only to help describe the sound, (assuming it might be
specific to Icom), not make a statement about Icom radios.

I have not found one yet now that I have my K3/P3 combination, which
means maybe I need to open up the less than 200 HZ pass band on the K3,
which is not going to happen.

--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

On Tue, 2014-04-29 at 09:31 -0400, Slava Baytalskiy wrote:

> Hello everybody!
> Ever since i got my new P3 - i've been looking at people's signals (naturally).
> And i've noticed the following:
> When using USB on 10 meters, talking locally, there are a couple of folks that use ICOM radios and i can see these spikes on the left of the carrier.
> Normally, in USB, all the signal shows up on the right, correct?
> But with these guys there's a lot of signal on the left as well.
> And they sound a bit robotic, as if they were off frequency a bit. But they aren't.
> When they switch to, say, Yaesu or a Kenwood i don't see that same graph.
> But on the ICOM its very pronounced (except the older ones like 756 Pro III).
> Saw it last night with an ICOM IC-7000.
>
> Is this normal? Has anyone else noticed this?
> This P3 is certainly giving me a lot of insight i didn't have before...
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> Slava B
> W2RMS
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3 - Sub RX audio to right Line Out

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

Buck,

Where (how) are you connecting between the K3 and MK II?

You should use a the stereo audio cable supplied with MK II to connect
the 3.5mm "pigtail" on the LINE OUT plug of the DB3-EL-K23 or K3R
cable set to the "Sub RX" jack on the back of MK II.

Sub RX audio is present *only* when the "SUB" icon is displayed on
the K3 display (DUAL or DIVERSITY). If the Sub RX is on and you
have audio in right headphone connected to the headphone jack but
no audio in the right channel (ring) of the LINE OUT (or tip of the
pigtail on the DB37-EL-K23/K3R) I would check L2 on the KIO3 Audio
I/O board.

Check for audio directly at the LINE OUT jack and at the "pigtail"
in case you've snagged the pigtail and broken a wire in either jack.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 4/29/2014 8:22 AM, K4ia via Elecraft wrote:

> I played with that setting to no avail. I am going into a Microham
> KeyerII which has a separate audio line for the Sub Rx. If I plug
> headphones into the Line Out jack on the back of the K3, I hear signals
> on the left side but nothing on the right so I am convinced it is the
> output from the K3 that is missing, not an issue with the computer or MKII.
>
>
> Buck
> k4ia
> K3# 101 KX3 #715
>
> On 4/29/2014 8:05 AM, Sam Morgan wrote:
>> hmmm, what is your Line Out set to?
>> mine is the recommended 010
>> also is the computer a desktop or laptop?
>>
>> On 4/29/2014 6:47 AM, K4ia wrote:
>>> Thanks Sam but that isn't it. I get the Sub RX audio just fine in the
>>> headphones.
>>>
>>> What I am missing is the Sub Rx on the right channel of the Line Out
>>> jack on the back of the radio.
>>>
>>> Buck
>>> k4ia
>>> K3# 101 KX3 #715
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Signal analysis with the P3

In reply to this post by W2RMS

A "spike" on the left of a USB signal is normally an indication of
insufficient carrier suppression (carrier leakage). Signal to the
left of that is generally insufficient opposite sideband suppression
(sideband leakage) or regenerated sideband due to excess IMD in the
transmitter.

However, if the other station is using ESSB with excess low frequency
content below 150 - 200 Hz, the spike can be a "false carrier" due to
ringing in the modulator when it is over driven by the excess low
frequency content. "False carrier" or modulator ringing is almost
always accompanied by IMD and regenerated opposite sideband.

Most SSB users will tend to zero beat the false carrier. That will
cause a "robotic" or "hollow" sound because excess low frequency
content, the signal is actually tuned slightly off frequency, and
the normal/regenerated sidebands are not producing the same/in phase
audio.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 4/29/2014 9:31 AM, Slava Baytalskiy wrote:

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Signal analysis with the P3

One additional note ... it is not necessary to be running ESSB to
generate the "false carrier". Bandwidth is not an issue - only that
there be *excess* low frequency drive to the modulator (analog or
DSP). False carrier (ringing below 50 Hz) tends to be most common
in situations where low frequency audio has been "enhanced" or high
frequencies have been cut and the mic gain increased for more "talk
power". Low frequency ringing is more prevalent with electret mics
due to their higher output and additional low frequency response
but it can also be noticed on dynamic mics when males with voices
that are particularly low pitched "close talk" a mic due to the
increased low frequency response from the proximity effect.

This low frequency ringing is a major reason (in addition to hum and
background noise reductions) professional audio guys use a (typical)
100 Hz low cut filter in "talk" radio. A six to 12 dB reduction in
the strong fundamental does not upset the voice's overall tonal balance
but the 10 dB or so reduction in low frequency energy prevents overload
problems in the electronics.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 4/29/2014 10:04 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
> A "spike" on the left of a USB signal is normally an indication of
> insufficient carrier suppression (carrier leakage). Signal to the
> left of that is generally insufficient opposite sideband suppression
> (sideband leakage) or regenerated sideband due to excess IMD in the
> transmitter.
>
> However, if the other station is using ESSB with excess low frequency
> content below 150 - 200 Hz, the spike can be a "false carrier" due to
> ringing in the modulator when it is over driven by the excess low
> frequency content. "False carrier" or modulator ringing is almost
> always accompanied by IMD and regenerated opposite sideband.
>
> Most SSB users will tend to zero beat the false carrier. That will
> cause a "robotic" or "hollow" sound because excess low frequency
> content, the signal is actually tuned slightly off frequency, and
> the normal/regenerated sidebands are not producing the same/in phase
> audio.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 4/29/2014 9:31 AM, Slava Baytalskiy wrote:
>> Hello everybody!
>> Ever since i got my new P3 - i've been looking at people's signals
>> (naturally).
>> And i've noticed the following:
>> When using USB on 10 meters, talking locally, there are a couple of
>> folks that use ICOM radios and i can see these spikes on the left of
>> the carrier.
>> Normally, in USB, all the signal shows up on the right, correct?
>> But with these guys there's a lot of signal on the left as well.
>> And they sound a bit robotic, as if they were off frequency a bit. But
>> they aren't.
>> When they switch to, say, Yaesu or a Kenwood i don't see that same graph.
>> But on the ICOM its very pronounced (except the older ones like 756
>> Pro III).
>> Saw it last night with an ICOM IC-7000.
>>
>> Is this normal? Has anyone else noticed this?
>> This P3 is certainly giving me a lot of insight i didn't have before...
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>> Slava B
>> W2RMS
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Elecraft mailing list

Re: K3 - Sub RX audio to right Line Out

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Joe - that is what I have set up. If I turn on the Sub Rx and plug a
set of headphones directly into the K3 Line Out jack in the back, I hear
audio on the left channel only. So I don't think it is the MH cable
pigtail. The problem seems to be in the K3.

Sub Rx works fine in the headphone jack on the front. This is the first
time I have tried to listen to the Sub Rx through the rear Line Out
jack. I was hoping it was a menu setting I was missing. I will check
L2. I guess you are telling me it could be "open?" Why would that happen?

Buck
k4ia

On 4/29/2014 9:50 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

> Buck,
>
> Where (how) are you connecting between the K3 and MK II?
>
> You should use a the stereo audio cable supplied with MK II to connect
> the 3.5mm "pigtail" on the LINE OUT plug of the DB3-EL-K23 or K3R
> cable set to the "Sub RX" jack on the back of MK II.
>
> Sub RX audio is present *only* when the "SUB" icon is displayed on
> the K3 display (DUAL or DIVERSITY). If the Sub RX is on and you
> have audio in right headphone connected to the headphone jack but
> no audio in the right channel (ring) of the LINE OUT (or tip of the
> pigtail on the DB37-EL-K23/K3R) I would check L2 on the KIO3 Audio
> I/O board.
>
> Check for audio directly at the LINE OUT jack and at the "pigtail"
> in case you've snagged the pigtail and broken a wire in either jack.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 4/29/2014 8:22 AM, K4ia via Elecraft wrote:
>> I played with that setting to no avail. I am going into a Microham
>> KeyerII which has a separate audio line for the Sub Rx. If I plug
>> headphones into the Line Out jack on the back of the K3, I hear signals
>> on the left side but nothing on the right so I am convinced it is the
>> output from the K3 that is missing, not an issue with the computer or
>> MKII.
>>
>>
>> Buck
>> k4ia
>> K3# 101 KX3 #715
>>
>> On 4/29/2014 8:05 AM, Sam Morgan wrote:
>>> hmmm, what is your Line Out set to?
>>> mine is the recommended 010
>>> also is the computer a desktop or laptop?
>>>
>>> On 4/29/2014 6:47 AM, K4ia wrote:
>>>> Thanks Sam but that isn't it. I get the Sub RX audio just fine in the
>>>> headphones.
>>>>
>>>> What I am missing is the Sub Rx on the right channel of the Line Out
>>>> jack on the back of the radio.
>>>>
>>>> Buck
>>>> k4ia
>>>> K3# 101 KX3 #715
>>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>

NK7Z

Re: Signal analysis with the P3

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Thank you Joe, I have been looking for an explanation of most of what
you covered here for several months. I'll pass it on to my buddy that
mentioned the "Icom sound"!
--
Thanks and 73's,
For equipment, and software setups and reviews see:
www.nk7z.net
for MixW support see;
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/mixw/info
for Dopplergram information see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/dopplergram/info
for MM-SSTV see:
http://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/MM-SSTV/info

On Tue, 2014-04-29 at 10:04 -0400, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

> A "spike" on the left of a USB signal is normally an indication of
> insufficient carrier suppression (carrier leakage). Signal to the
> left of that is generally insufficient opposite sideband suppression
> (sideband leakage) or regenerated sideband due to excess IMD in the
> transmitter.
>
> However, if the other station is using ESSB with excess low frequency
> content below 150 - 200 Hz, the spike can be a "false carrier" due to
> ringing in the modulator when it is over driven by the excess low
> frequency content. "False carrier" or modulator ringing is almost
> always accompanied by IMD and regenerated opposite sideband.
>
> Most SSB users will tend to zero beat the false carrier. That will
> cause a "robotic" or "hollow" sound because excess low frequency
> content, the signal is actually tuned slightly off frequency, and
> the normal/regenerated sidebands are not producing the same/in phase
> audio.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
> On 4/29/2014 9:31 AM, Slava Baytalskiy wrote:
> > Hello everybody!
> > Ever since i got my new P3 - i've been looking at people's signals (naturally).
> > And i've noticed the following:
> > When using USB on 10 meters, talking locally, there are a couple of folks that use ICOM radios and i can see these spikes on the left of the carrier.
> > Normally, in USB, all the signal shows up on the right, correct?
> > But with these guys there's a lot of signal on the left as well.
> > And they sound a bit robotic, as if they were off frequency a bit. But they aren't.
> > When they switch to, say, Yaesu or a Kenwood i don't see that same graph.
> > But on the ICOM its very pronounced (except the older ones like 756 Pro III).
> > Saw it last night with an ICOM IC-7000.
> >
> > Is this normal? Has anyone else noticed this?
> > This P3 is certainly giving me a lot of insight i didn't have before...
> >
> > Thanks in advance!
> >
> > Slava B
> > W2RMS
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
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k6dgw

Re: Signal analysis with the P3

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Not sure it is limited to dynamic mics. I supported myself in college
working on the engineering crew at the local TV station. The Station
Mgr once complained that the newscaster "boomed." I recorded myself
using his velocity mic [the large iconic RCA which had a prismatic
shape] on an Ampex 350 at varying distances. As I got closer, I became
more and more a bass. Our "anchorman" was right up on top of the mic
sitting on his desk. The rest of my crew thought the tone of my voice
is pretty much "average male."

Using my K3, I've had a chance to be recorded by a friend on his K3 who
then sent me a CD of the recordings. Close-talking with my Heil boom
mic [from Elecraft, electret element] with the TX EQ flat did the same
thing and I became significantly less intelligible on the recording. On
SSB, I keep the mic just a little below my chin, talking across rather
than into it [handy for drinking coffee and eating snacks in a contest
too]. I also use the K9YC TX EQ settings.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2014 Cal QSO Party 4-5 Oct 2014
- www.cqp.org

OT Trivia: I was in college from 1957 to 1962. We were the only TV
station in town, cable and satellite TV and the Internet hadn't been
invented yet, and out of an 18 hour broadcast day, we had thirty [30]
minutes of news ... 15 minutes of "Jack Smith and the News" [local],
followed by "The CBS Evening News with Douglas Edwards." 30 minutes
seemed to cover things pretty well then. :-)

On 4/29/2014 7:28 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

> but it can also be noticed on dynamic mics when males with voices
> that are particularly low pitched "close talk" a mic due to the
> increased low frequency response from the proximity effect.

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Jim Brown-10

Re: Signal analysis with the P3

On 4/29/2014 9:32 AM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> As I got closer, I became more and more a bass. Our "anchorman" was
> right up on top of the mic sitting on his desk.

That characteristic of a mic is called "proximity effect," and is the
result of the combining of front and rear openings to a mic capsule to
form a directional pattern. Most such mics have a cardioid pattern,named
because it is sort of heart-shaped. Most hand held mics intended for
live performance are cardioids, and have this characteristic.

In the 1950s, the engineers at Electro-Voice invented a cardioid mic
with an additional opening farther down the handle of the mic that
greatly reduced proximity effect. That mic, the model 666, came to be
known as the "Buchannon Hammer," because it was demonstrated to
broadcasters by using it to drive a nail to prove its ruggedness. EV
still makes excellent mics using this principle, and they are quite
popular in broadcast. One of them, the RE20, is the one you see most
often on TV on a boom with a talk radio jock. The mics I use for NCCC
meetings are RE16s, a smaller, handheld version that uses the same
principle.

Over the years, omnidirectional mics have also been popular with
broadcasters, because they have no proximity effect. EV pretty much owns
that market too, their model 635A having been a standard for at least 40
years.

And it was one of the two founders of EV, Al Kahn, K4FW, who founded and
ran Ten Tec when his partner decided they should sell the biz to a
conglomerate. Al was a CW guy. I worked him once.

73, Jim K9YC
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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3 - Sub RX audio to right Line Out

In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list

> If I turn on the Sub Rx and plug a set of headphones directly into
> the K3 Line Out jack in the back, I hear audio on the left channel
> only.

If you hear audio only on left/main when connected directly to the
Line Out jack you are probably correct but try a pair of powered
(computer) speakers to make sure the level isn't low.

> So I don't think it is the MH cable pigtail

FYI - the "Sub Rx" pigtail is Sub RX only with audio on the tip to
match to the single channel connections of the Sub RX jack on MK II
(and MK2R+).

> I will check L2. I guess you are telling me it could be "open?" Why
> would that happen?

Yes, L2 could be open - of course you could also have bent missing
pins on the KIO3 boards and on the front panel. However, I have seen
several of the KIO3 RF chokes open and have never found a good
explanation.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 4/29/2014 11:43 AM, Buck - k4ia wrote:

> Joe - that is what I have set up. If I turn on the Sub Rx and plug a
> set of headphones directly into the K3 Line Out jack in the back, I hear
> audio on the left channel only. So I don't think it is the MH cable
> pigtail. The problem seems to be in the K3.
>
> Sub Rx works fine in the headphone jack on the front. This is the first
> time I have tried to listen to the Sub Rx through the rear Line Out
> jack. I was hoping it was a menu setting I was missing. I will check
> L2. I guess you are telling me it could be "open?" Why would that happen?
>
> Buck
> k4ia
>
> On 4/29/2014 9:50 AM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>> Buck,
>>
>> Where (how) are you connecting between the K3 and MK II?
>>
>> You should use a the stereo audio cable supplied with MK II to connect
>> the 3.5mm "pigtail" on the LINE OUT plug of the DB3-EL-K23 or K3R
>> cable set to the "Sub RX" jack on the back of MK II.
>>
>> Sub RX audio is present *only* when the "SUB" icon is displayed on
>> the K3 display (DUAL or DIVERSITY). If the Sub RX is on and you
>> have audio in right headphone connected to the headphone jack but
>> no audio in the right channel (ring) of the LINE OUT (or tip of the
>> pigtail on the DB37-EL-K23/K3R) I would check L2 on the KIO3 Audio
>> I/O board.
>>
>> Check for audio directly at the LINE OUT jack and at the "pigtail"
>> in case you've snagged the pigtail and broken a wire in either jack.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>> On 4/29/2014 8:22 AM, K4ia via Elecraft wrote:
>>> I played with that setting to no avail. I am going into a Microham
>>> KeyerII which has a separate audio line for the Sub Rx. If I plug
>>> headphones into the Line Out jack on the back of the K3, I hear signals
>>> on the left side but nothing on the right so I am convinced it is the
>>> output from the K3 that is missing, not an issue with the computer or
>>> MKII.
>>>
>>>
>>> Buck
>>> k4ia
>>> K3# 101 KX3 #715
>>>
>>> On 4/29/2014 8:05 AM, Sam Morgan wrote:
>>>> hmmm, what is your Line Out set to?
>>>> mine is the recommended 010
>>>> also is the computer a desktop or laptop?
>>>>
>>>> On 4/29/2014 6:47 AM, K4ia wrote:
>>>>> Thanks Sam but that isn't it. I get the Sub RX audio just fine in the
>>>>> headphones.
>>>>>
>>>>> What I am missing is the Sub Rx on the right channel of the Line Out
>>>>> jack on the back of the radio.
>>>>>
>>>>> Buck
>>>>> k4ia
>>>>> K3# 101 KX3 #715
>>>>
>>>
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>

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: Signal analysis with the P3

In reply to this post by k6dgw

On 4/29/2014 12:32 PM, Fred Jensen wrote:
> Not sure it is limited to dynamic mics.

Proximity effect is not limited to dynamic mics. But it seems to be
more common with dynamic mics used for amateur service because the
electret has both a higher output level and more low end to start with.

> I recorded myself using his velocity mic [the large iconic RCA which
> had a prismatic shape] on an Ampex 350 at varying distances. As I got
> closer, I became more and more a bass.

I took every advantage of proximity effect when I started in radio.
I had an overnight air shift - I worked the mic as close as I could
and kept my voice level down in order to generate that more pleasing
"low, soothing tone". When it came time to rip and read the news, I
backed off, talked louder and faster - almost sounded like a different
person.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

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Dave Barr-2

Re: Signal analysis with the P3

In reply to this post by W2RMS

On 4/29/2014 3:52 PM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Message: 12
> Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2014 09:32:33 -0700
> From: Fred Jensen<[hidden email]>
> To:[hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] Signal analysis with the P3
>
> ... I recorded myself
> using his velocity mic [the large iconic RCA which had a prismatic
> shape] on an Ampex 350 at varying distances.
>
>
> Fred K6DGW

The large iconic broadcast mic was probably the DX-44. RCA's next
iconic mic was the DX-77, which resembled a large pharmaceutical
capsule, hemispherical on both ends and mounted in the middle. Until a
few years ago, these sometimes appeared on late night tv show host's
desks, probably just for their iconicness (sic).

Dave, K2YG
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