K3 Summary of brick issue

[Jeff Wandling W7BRS]

I was somewhat nervous about the error message I sent so I had not thought
through my email message clearly.

The issue is not any of the following:

1.  Firmware version
2.  Utility version
3.  Cable, serial port, or communication over RS-232.

The issue is this:

In a nutshell, user error.  But the user (me in this case!) was un-aware
of the rules to follow:

The Utility was directed by the user to move certain firmware files to the
K3 and the configuration of the Utility interface was not concordiant with
the version of the firmware files.  In short, I did not realize I had left
the check-box checked above the button "Check new version".

After a few attempts, I was able to make the Utility load without error.

It was nervous for me because being firmware, seeing errors on the load
raised the hair on the back of my neck because things like that can often
render the platform a brick.  I knew in the back of my mind that Wayne and
Lyle had made the process robust and enough bootstrap code should/would be
on the K3 to bring up the executable on the K3 to handle a new MCU DL.

In the documentation there are two methods described for resetting the K3
if the MCU load fails:

1 a) pull the power
   b) Hold the POWER button and wait about 10 seconds then go to step 3.

2 a) pull the power
   b) HOLD HI/LO while TAP POWER and wait about 2 seconds then go to step3

3 a) Re try loading the MCU - starting the Utility, re-confirming
    communication to the K3, and then choosing the firmware, etc..


The resynchronization error is a loading error by the Utility getting in
the weeds because of the aforementioned configuration of the firmware data
and the Utility settings (AFAIK).  I've been trying to think of the
use-case for what caused it, but it becomes nebulous because I don't know
enough about the protocol used by the Utility and the meaning of the data
in the S-code files.  A block diagram of how the  Utility works would be
great.  How it parses the first file, and etc.

Why was it so difficult to get the MCU load to work after the Re-synch
error?

Method #1 did not work for me to re-try the MCU load.  I was only able to
get the K3 to succeed in testing the Serial port after a failed MCU load
if I used method #2 to re-start the K3.

The good news is that I was able to reload the MCU w/o Resync errors, but
it was that moment of "uhh oh", you know what I mean?

If I could make a suggestion to the documentation team about this:

The documentation of the error messages in the Utility doesn't seem to
cover this error.  I searched the Help file on the Utility.  There also
could be a little more treatment in the K3 manual over loading MCU and
fool proof steps for loading in these use cases:

1.  Upgrading to a newer MCU
2.  Downgrading to an older MCU

And, for the support team, I'd suggest putting much more online with
respect to past versions of the MCU.  2.57 isn't _that_ old, right?  It's
not on the web site in a downloadable form, unless you know the secret
URL.


All is well that ends well.

-jeff

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[Bob Cunnings NW8L]

There's a link to the full revision history at the top of  the K3
Software Page, just under the Beta software download and installation
instructions link.

Bob NW8L

On Tue, Nov 11, 2008 at 9:42 AM, Jeff Wandling W7BRS <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> And, for the support team, I'd suggest putting much more online with respect
> to past versions of the MCU.  2.57 isn't _that_ old, right?  It's not on the
> web site in a downloadable form, unless you know the secret URL.
>
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[Dick Dievendorff]

I'm not quite sure what you did!  If the "copy new files" check box is
checked, then the K3 Utility will do an FTP step and copy files from
Elecraft's FTP server to your firmware folder.  First.  Before it tries to
send firmware to the K3.  
Then the "most recent" firmware files in the firmware folder are sent to the
K3.  

These aren't concurrent operations.

Could you expand on your sentence "The Utility was directed by the user to
move certain firmware files to the K3 and the configuration of the Utility
interface was not concordiant with the version of the firmware files."  I'm
not quite sure what you mean there!

I'd like to get this right if it can be made better so that no one else
stumbles on this.

Dick, K6KR

 

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeff Wandling W7BRS
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 8:43 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Summary of brick issue


I was somewhat nervous about the error message I sent so I had not thought
through my email message clearly.

The issue is not any of the following:

1.  Firmware version
2.  Utility version
3.  Cable, serial port, or communication over RS-232.

The issue is this:

In a nutshell, user error.  But the user (me in this case!) was un-aware
of the rules to follow:

The Utility was directed by the user to move certain firmware files to the
K3 and the configuration of the Utility interface was not concordiant with
the version of the firmware files.  In short, I did not realize I had left
the check-box checked above the button "Check new version".

After a few attempts, I was able to make the Utility load without error.

It was nervous for me because being firmware, seeing errors on the load
raised the hair on the back of my neck because things like that can often
render the platform a brick.  I knew in the back of my mind that Wayne and
Lyle had made the process robust and enough bootstrap code should/would be
on the K3 to bring up the executable on the K3 to handle a new MCU DL.

In the documentation there are two methods described for resetting the K3
if the MCU load fails:

1 a) pull the power
   b) Hold the POWER button and wait about 10 seconds then go to step 3.

2 a) pull the power
   b) HOLD HI/LO while TAP POWER and wait about 2 seconds then go to step3

3 a) Re try loading the MCU - starting the Utility, re-confirming
    communication to the K3, and then choosing the firmware, etc..


The resynchronization error is a loading error by the Utility getting in
the weeds because of the aforementioned configuration of the firmware data
and the Utility settings (AFAIK).  I've been trying to think of the
use-case for what caused it, but it becomes nebulous because I don't know
enough about the protocol used by the Utility and the meaning of the data
in the S-code files.  A block diagram of how the  Utility works would be
great.  How it parses the first file, and etc.

Why was it so difficult to get the MCU load to work after the Re-synch
error?

Method #1 did not work for me to re-try the MCU load.  I was only able to
get the K3 to succeed in testing the Serial port after a failed MCU load
if I used method #2 to re-start the K3.

The good news is that I was able to reload the MCU w/o Resync errors, but
it was that moment of "uhh oh", you know what I mean?

If I could make a suggestion to the documentation team about this:

The documentation of the error messages in the Utility doesn't seem to
cover this error.  I searched the Help file on the Utility.  There also
could be a little more treatment in the K3 manual over loading MCU and
fool proof steps for loading in these use cases:

1.  Upgrading to a newer MCU
2.  Downgrading to an older MCU

And, for the support team, I'd suggest putting much more online with
respect to past versions of the MCU.  2.57 isn't _that_ old, right?  It's
not on the web site in a downloadable form, unless you know the secret
URL.


All is well that ends well.

-jeff

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[Jeff Wandling W7BRS]

OK. Let me try to break it into the sequence of how you get here.

You get a K3 and it's pre loaded with a certain MCU and DSP, etc..

My K3 was loaded with 2.57 MCU and the corresponding DSP.

Time past.  I got a straight-DB9 serial cable on Friday (Frys) and
proceeded to use it to test the latest K3 Utility (whatever version the
latest is) that my PC (Dell D600 Latitude Notebook) was able to talk to
the K3.  It was.  I could see my filter data, etc..

Now came the new firm ware:  I wanted to try the beta release, 2.63 I
believe it was.

So I ran the Utility, tested the connection.

I set the Folder to store firmware.

I left the checkbox checked "copy new files from Elecraft" because I had
none yet, this would be the first upgrade so I needed the files copied
from their ftp server.

I pressed Send all Firmware to K3.

It downloaded the firmware, and loaded it on the K3.  No errors.  No
resynchronization warnings, etc..  All good.

Time past.

I noticed a behavior with my amp-key line that I didn't notice on 2.57 so
I wanted to regress the condition with the original 2.57 to make sure it
wasn't firmware, but perhaps the amp or something else.  I had to strike
firmware off the list given that 2.63 was fairly new beta firmware.

So I tried to reload 2.57  but I had no copy and none is on the Elecraft
web site, hence my request earlier for a copy.

I got a copy (thanks!) and put it into a folder.  I re-ran the utility,
set the folder to look there.

I pressed Send Firmware to K3 **

** = mistake

When this happend, I began to see scores of warnings "Resynchronized at
load address x0XXXXX, response "N", sent 67b, # attempts.. etc..

The last Log entry in the Activity Log was:

18:55:42 MCU block write failed at address x0XXXXX
18:55:42 MCU programming failed. Verify file source and version.
Turn the K3 off and back on, then re-try the firmware load.
18:55:42 MCU programming failed. Verify file source and version.
Turn the K3 off and back on, then re-try the firmware load.
18:55:45 Ready


So I tried to restart the K3 and re-load the MCU.

Restarting the K3 so a new load can be done is itself tricky  as I
learned.  If you cycle power, and restart the K3 you need to wait for some
reason until the existing firmware bootloader (or whatever the exec is on
the K3 that runs) finishes it's business before the Utility will even
succeed in "test-connection."

Once the test-connection passes, I re-attempted (2nd attempt for the MCU
load) and received the same error as before.

I realized too late that I forgot to uncheck the box "Copy new files from
Elecraft".

After I figured out the bone-headed mistake, I tried to start over by
trying to load the latest from Elecraft (2.46 is the latest regular
release).

After some painful waiting and hundreds of warnings about the
Resynchronization I was finally able to load 2.57 last night.

This morning, I got a copy of 2.65 (yes .65) from Elecraft and tried to
load it with my knowledge of how the Utility works (Uncheck "COpy new
files" and press Check Versions Now) before trying to "Send all Firmware
to K3."

Since this morning, I've been unable to successfully load a MCU.  The
cable is new and I tested it. The serial port is on a computer that has
shown no issues (I use it with ACLog), so I'm just a little perplexed.

I'm convinced I pooched it, but I don't know exactly what I could have
done to continue the badness given I am using (I hope) the Utility the way
it was designed.

Comments below, inline:

On Tue, 11 Nov 2008, Dick Dievendorff wrote:

> I'm not quite sure what you did!  If the "copy new files" check box is
> checked, then the K3 Utility will do an FTP step and copy files from
> Elecraft's FTP server to your firmware folder.  First.  Before it tries to
> send firmware to the K3.
> Then the "most recent" firmware files in the firmware folder are sent to the
> K3.
> These aren't concurrent operations.

Yup, that was my understanding initially too.

The Utility lets you get latest regular release (currently being 2.46) or
let's you install beta or any other version when unchecked.

> Could you expand on your sentence "The Utility was directed by the user to
> move certain firmware files to the K3 and the configuration of the Utility
> interface was not concordiant with the version of the firmware files."  I'm
> not quite sure what you mean there!

I directed the Utility to move certain files to the K3 by pressing "Send
all Firmware to K3", and:

The files it had moved were files that were from a folder on the PC and
the checkbox "copy new files" was checked.  The folder already contained
files from a different version MCU.  So I was asking the Utility to Send
All Firmware, and what it did (since the checkbox was checked) is first
download (into the folder already populated) and then begin the MCU LD.

Thus, I had no clue that the data it downloaded clobbered some data that
was already in the folder, or maybe not. I really don't know, hence fubar.

Yes, I know how stupid that was.  I just didn't notice the checkbox before
I pressed "Send all Firmware to K3."

> I'd like to get this right if it can be made better so that no one else
> stumbles on this.

I'm sure hope no one else does.

;-)

Thanks, I'll let you know how it goes when I see you Saturday.

If you see a K3 under my arm, it means it has died and I hope Lyle can
breath life into it.

-jeff
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[Dick Dievendorff]

This is very strange.

I'm following you up to the point where you decided to install back-level
firmware version 2.57.  

You put MCU version 2.57 into a folder.  Then you checked "Copy new files
from Elecraft".  That won't do anything until/unless you click "Check
Versions Now", and if you'd done that, then the K3 Utility would have copied
the current production version, 2.46, into the same folder.  Since 2.57 is
later than 2.46, the K3 Utility wouldn't use it.

If you clicked "Send All Firmware to K3", then the most recent version of
the MCU code in the folder, version 2.57 would have been loaded into the K3.
The K3 Utility doesn't simultaneously copy files from Elecraft and send code
to the K3.  If you're copying files, you're copying files and not loading
the K3.  If you're loading the K3, nothing else goes on during that process.

I still think you have a cable problem.  Are you attaching it to your
computer and to the back of the K3 with the jack screws?  Could it be loose?

Dick, K6KR


-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Jeff Wandling W7BRS
Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2008 12:50 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: RE: [Elecraft] K3 Summary of brick issue


OK. Let me try to break it into the sequence of how you get here.

You get a K3 and it's pre loaded with a certain MCU and DSP, etc..

My K3 was loaded with 2.57 MCU and the corresponding DSP.

Time past.  I got a straight-DB9 serial cable on Friday (Frys) and
proceeded to use it to test the latest K3 Utility (whatever version the
latest is) that my PC (Dell D600 Latitude Notebook) was able to talk to
the K3.  It was.  I could see my filter data, etc..

Now came the new firm ware:  I wanted to try the beta release, 2.63 I
believe it was.

So I ran the Utility, tested the connection.

I set the Folder to store firmware.

I left the checkbox checked "copy new files from Elecraft" because I had
none yet, this would be the first upgrade so I needed the files copied
from their ftp server.

I pressed Send all Firmware to K3.

It downloaded the firmware, and loaded it on the K3.  No errors.  No
resynchronization warnings, etc..  All good.

Time past.

I noticed a behavior with my amp-key line that I didn't notice on 2.57 so
I wanted to regress the condition with the original 2.57 to make sure it
wasn't firmware, but perhaps the amp or something else.  I had to strike
firmware off the list given that 2.63 was fairly new beta firmware.

So I tried to reload 2.57  but I had no copy and none is on the Elecraft
web site, hence my request earlier for a copy.

I got a copy (thanks!) and put it into a folder.  I re-ran the utility,
set the folder to look there.

I pressed Send Firmware to K3 **

** = mistake

When this happend, I began to see scores of warnings "Resynchronized at
load address x0XXXXX, response "N", sent 67b, # attempts.. etc..

The last Log entry in the Activity Log was:

18:55:42 MCU block write failed at address x0XXXXX
18:55:42 MCU programming failed. Verify file source and version.
Turn the K3 off and back on, then re-try the firmware load.
18:55:42 MCU programming failed. Verify file source and version.
Turn the K3 off and back on, then re-try the firmware load.
18:55:45 Ready


So I tried to restart the K3 and re-load the MCU.

Restarting the K3 so a new load can be done is itself tricky  as I
learned.  If you cycle power, and restart the K3 you need to wait for some
reason until the existing firmware bootloader (or whatever the exec is on
the K3 that runs) finishes it's business before the Utility will even
succeed in "test-connection."

Once the test-connection passes, I re-attempted (2nd attempt for the MCU
load) and received the same error as before.

I realized too late that I forgot to uncheck the box "Copy new files from
Elecraft".

After I figured out the bone-headed mistake, I tried to start over by
trying to load the latest from Elecraft (2.46 is the latest regular
release).

After some painful waiting and hundreds of warnings about the
Resynchronization I was finally able to load 2.57 last night.

This morning, I got a copy of 2.65 (yes .65) from Elecraft and tried to
load it with my knowledge of how the Utility works (Uncheck "COpy new
files" and press Check Versions Now) before trying to "Send all Firmware
to K3."

Since this morning, I've been unable to successfully load a MCU.  The
cable is new and I tested it. The serial port is on a computer that has
shown no issues (I use it with ACLog), so I'm just a little perplexed.

I'm convinced I pooched it, but I don't know exactly what I could have
done to continue the badness given I am using (I hope) the Utility the way
it was designed.

Comments below, inline:

On Tue, 11 Nov 2008, Dick Dievendorff wrote:

> I'm not quite sure what you did!  If the "copy new files" check box is
> checked, then the K3 Utility will do an FTP step and copy files from
> Elecraft's FTP server to your firmware folder.  First.  Before it tries to
> send firmware to the K3.
> Then the "most recent" firmware files in the firmware folder are sent to
the
> K3.
> These aren't concurrent operations.

Yup, that was my understanding initially too.

The Utility lets you get latest regular release (currently being 2.46) or
let's you install beta or any other version when unchecked.

> Could you expand on your sentence "The Utility was directed by the user to
> move certain firmware files to the K3 and the configuration of the Utility
> interface was not concordiant with the version of the firmware files."
I'm
> not quite sure what you mean there!

I directed the Utility to move certain files to the K3 by pressing "Send
all Firmware to K3", and:

The files it had moved were files that were from a folder on the PC and
the checkbox "copy new files" was checked.  The folder already contained
files from a different version MCU.  So I was asking the Utility to Send
All Firmware, and what it did (since the checkbox was checked) is first
download (into the folder already populated) and then begin the MCU LD.

Thus, I had no clue that the data it downloaded clobbered some data that
was already in the folder, or maybe not. I really don't know, hence fubar.

Yes, I know how stupid that was.  I just didn't notice the checkbox before
I pressed "Send all Firmware to K3."

> I'd like to get this right if it can be made better so that no one else
> stumbles on this.

I'm sure hope no one else does.

;-)

Thanks, I'll let you know how it goes when I see you Saturday.

If you see a K3 under my arm, it means it has died and I hope Lyle can
breath life into it.

-jeff
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