K3 TX equalizer messes up PSK

[K7TV]

Tonight I was on 40 PSK31 using DATA A. At one point I was wondering why in the world I wasn't getting enought power out. It turned out I had clicked on a different frequency in the waterfall! Clearing the TX equalizer fixed the problem. This is not the first time this has happened to me. Then when I want to use phone I have to input 8 settings for the equalizer again. It would be great if the TX equalizer could have separate settings per mode, but I would be happy if just the equalizer were bypassed in DATA A. I think something along these lines should be a high priority.

73, Erik K7TV

[Julian, G4ILO]

K7TV wrote

Tonight I was on 40 PSK31 using DATA A. At one point I was wondering why in the world I wasn't getting enought power out. It turned out I had clicked on a different frequency in the waterfall! Clearing the TX equalizer fixed the problem. This is not the first time this has happened to me. Then when I want to use phone I have to input 8 settings for the equalizer again. It would be great if the TX equalizer could have separate settings per mode, but I would be happy if just the equalizer were bypassed in DATA A. I think something along these lines should be a high priority.

Agreed. It might actually be more useful if the equalizer was bypassed when LINE IN is used, rather than by mode. It could also be useful to have separate EQ settings for the front MIC socket and the rear. (I'm thinking that people might use a computer headset mic in the rear socket, which needs different EQ settings from the mic plugged in the front.)

[Barry N1EU]

Julian, G4ILO wrote

K7TV wrote

It would be great if the TX equalizer could have separate settings per mode, but I would be happy if just the equalizer were bypassed in DATA A. I think something along these lines should be a high priority.

It might actually be more useful if the equalizer was bypassed when LINE IN is used

I agree about different TX EQ by mode, and I think there should also be different RX EQ by mode.  But don't bypass TX EQ automatically when LINE IN is used.  Many of us use that in SSB.

73,
Barry N1EU

[Alexandr Kobranov]

What about to have settings of RX and TX EQ not by mode but as profiles?

let´s have RXEQ1, RXEQ2,....,RXEQ5,...

also TXEQ1,.....TXEQ5,...

all stored for possible recall

someteimes is good to use more profiles in one mode - other
headphones, microfone change, other data mode,...

so it will be up to operator which --tested-- profile wil use in any
mode for RX and which one for TX

the important thing is to go to last chosen profiles if mode changes,
not to choose again after mode change

just idea, sorry SW guys :-)

73!
Lexa, ok1dst
K3/10 #727


Barry N1EU napsal(a):

>
> Julian, G4ILO wrote:
>>
>>
>> K7TV wrote:
>>> It would be great if the TX equalizer could have separate settings per
>>> mode, but I would be happy if just the equalizer were bypassed in DATA A.
>>> I think something along these lines should be a high priority.
>>>
>> It might actually be more useful if the equalizer was bypassed when LINE
>> IN is used
>>
> I agree about different TX EQ by mode, and I think there should also be
> different RX EQ by mode.  But don't bypass TX EQ automatically when LINE IN
> is used.  Many of us use that in SSB.
>
> 73,
> Barry N1EU
>

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[Julian, G4ILO]

Alexandr Kobranov wrote

What about to have settings of RX and TX EQ not by mode but as profiles?

let´s have RXEQ1, RXEQ2,....,RXEQ5,...

also TXEQ1,.....TXEQ5,...

all stored for possible recall

someteimes is good to use more profiles in one mode - other
headphones, microfone change, other data mode,...

That sounds to me like if I want to switch from the desk mic (front socket) to the headset (rear socket) I would have to make TWO menu selections, one to change the mic input, and then another to change the profile. Since I don't change the EQ settings once they are set up for these mics, I would prefer to have the EQ change automatically with the change of input source.

I'm guessing that some people might like to have different EQ settings for, say, DX and normal contacts, for use with the same microphone. So I can see the sense in your suggestion, although for those who don't have such a requirement it just adds extra complication.

[Alexandr Kobranov]

You are right, Julian.

So what about to keep SSB FP MIc/SSB RP Mic/AM FP Mic/AM RP Mic/FM FP
MIc/FM/RP Mic as "independent modes" keeping their own TX/RX EQ Settings?
So yes, let´s have 10 EQ pre-sets and make table of possible "modes"
to keep information about EQ pre-set. There is no need to limit "mode"
only to CW/AM/FM/SSB - there are possible some more precious like Rear
or Front panel Mic used etc...why not.
Any other idea?

73!
L. -dst-



Julian, G4ILO napsal(a):

>
>
> Alexandr Kobranov wrote:
>>
>> What about to have settings of RX and TX EQ not by mode but as profiles?
>>
>> let´s have RXEQ1, RXEQ2,....,RXEQ5,...
>>
>> also TXEQ1,.....TXEQ5,...
>>
>> all stored for possible recall
>>
>> someteimes is good to use more profiles in one mode - other
>> headphones, microfone change, other data mode,...
>>
>>
> That sounds to me like if I want to switch from the desk mic (front socket)
> to the headset (rear socket) I would have to make TWO menu selections, one
> to change the mic input, and then another to change the profile. Since I
> don't change the EQ settings once they are set up for these mics, I would
> prefer to have the EQ change automatically with the change of input source.
>
> I'm guessing that some people might like to have different EQ settings for,
> say, DX and normal contacts, for use with the same microphone. So I can see
> the sense in your suggestion, although for those who don't have such a
> requirement it just adds extra complication.
>
> -----
> Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
> http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack   http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham
> Directory    http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3

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[Alexandr Kobranov]

just info - no new real "mode" is requested
only internal interpretation in K3 dependent on real MODE and
SOME_OTHER_CONTIDION (eg. MIC port) like only internal "virtual" mode
for deciding which EQ profile will be used

just to prevent misunderstandings :-)
hope not needed but...
L. -dst-

Alexandr Kobranov napsal(a):

> You are right, Julian.
>
> So what about to keep SSB FP MIc/SSB RP Mic/AM FP Mic/AM RP Mic/FM FP
> MIc/FM/RP Mic as "independent modes" keeping their own TX/RX EQ Settings?
> So yes, let´s have 10 EQ pre-sets and make table of possible "modes" to
> keep information about EQ pre-set. There is no need to limit "mode" only
> to CW/AM/FM/SSB - there are possible some more precious like Rear or
> Front panel Mic used etc...why not.
> Any other idea?
>
> 73!
> L. -dst-
>
>
>
> Julian, G4ILO napsal(a):
>>
>>
>> Alexandr Kobranov wrote:
>>>
>>> What about to have settings of RX and TX EQ not by mode but as profiles?
>>>
>>> let´s have RXEQ1, RXEQ2,....,RXEQ5,...
>>>
>>> also TXEQ1,.....TXEQ5,...
>>>
>>> all stored for possible recall
>>>
>>> someteimes is good to use more profiles in one mode - other
>>> headphones, microfone change, other data mode,...
>>>
>>>
>> That sounds to me like if I want to switch from the desk mic (front
>> socket)
>> to the headset (rear socket) I would have to make TWO menu selections,
>> one
>> to change the mic input, and then another to change the profile. Since I
>> don't change the EQ settings once they are set up for these mics, I would
>> prefer to have the EQ change automatically with the change of input
>> source.
>>
>> I'm guessing that some people might like to have different EQ settings
>> for,
>> say, DX and normal contacts, for use with the same microphone. So I
>> can see
>> the sense in your suggestion, although for those who don't have such a
>> requirement it just adds extra complication.
>>
>> -----
>> Julian, G4ILO. K2 #392  K3 #222.
>> http://www.g4ilo.com/ G4ILO's Shack   http://www.ham-directory.com/ Ham
>> Directory    http://www.g4ilo.com/kcomm.html KComm for Elecraft K2 and K3
>
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[K7TV]

These sound like good ideas, but please don't forget separate "eq modes" for
the
data modes, unless flat eq is set automatically for all the data modes.
The latter approach would be fine for me, and a lot simpler. Does anyone
have
a need for other than flat settings for data? As to the approach with "eq
modes"
I assume that would be implemented as a new menu within CONFIG?

73,
Erik K7TV

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexandr Kobranov" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 12:10 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 TX equalizer messes up PSK


You are right, Julian.

So what about to keep SSB FP MIc/SSB RP Mic/AM FP Mic/AM RP Mic/FM FP
MIc/FM/RP Mic as "independent modes" keeping their own TX/RX EQ Settings?
So yes, let´s have 10 EQ pre-sets and make table of possible "modes"
to keep information about EQ pre-set. There is no need to limit "mode"
only to CW/AM/FM/SSB - there are possible some more precious like Rear
or Front panel Mic used etc...why not.
Any other idea?

73!
L. -dst-


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[Alexandr Kobranov]

About DATA this is more problematic to make some internal sub-modes as
a lot of external-driven modes use the same MODE without any
OTHER_CONDITIONS useful for this mentioned system.

In my case, if there will be real chance to have EQ profiles stored, I
will leave RXEQ1 ant TXEQ1 as FLAT and this combination will be used
for data modes, maybe for WSJT there will be RXEQ9 and TXEQ9 ready but
manually selected when want to go WSJT with specific not so "flat"
soundcard.
The rest of pre-sets will be used for SSB (as using 2 mikes - front
and rear so let´s say TXEQ2 for front and TXEQ3 for rear one) and
surely there will be at least 1 RXEQ for SSB and 2 or three RXEQ
settings for CW (as using several headphones/loudpeakers etc..)

Sorry if going so deep in my dreams :-)

73!
L. -dst-

Erik N Basilier napsal(a):

> These sound like good ideas, but please don't forget separate "eq modes"
> for the
> data modes, unless flat eq is set automatically for all the data modes.
> The latter approach would be fine for me, and a lot simpler. Does anyone
> have
> a need for other than flat settings for data? As to the approach with
> "eq modes"
> I assume that would be implemented as a new menu within CONFIG?
>
> 73,
> Erik K7TV
>
> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alexandr Kobranov" <[hidden email]>
> Cc: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 12:10 PM
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 TX equalizer messes up PSK
>
>
> You are right, Julian.
>
> So what about to keep SSB FP MIc/SSB RP Mic/AM FP Mic/AM RP Mic/FM FP
> MIc/FM/RP Mic as "independent modes" keeping their own TX/RX EQ Settings?
> So yes, let´s have 10 EQ pre-sets and make table of possible "modes"
> to keep information about EQ pre-set. There is no need to limit "mode"
> only to CW/AM/FM/SSB - there are possible some more precious like Rear
> or Front panel Mic used etc...why not.
> Any other idea?
>
> 73!
> L. -dst-
>
>
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[K7TV]

Don't apologize for those dreams. Although I have never tried WSJT, I too am
a fan of meteor scatter, moonbounce etc, and if different rx and or tx eq's
would be helpful for a range of related protocols, why not have a submenu
under the "DATA" selection in your main new CONFIG menu? That said, maybe
you could briefly explain why WSJT would benefit from other than flat eq?

73, Erik K7TV

----- Original Message -----
From: "Alexandr Kobranov" <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2008 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 TX equalizer messes up PSK


About DATA this is more problematic to make some internal sub-modes as
a lot of external-driven modes use the same MODE without any
OTHER_CONDITIONS useful for this mentioned system.

In my case, if there will be real chance to have EQ profiles stored, I
will leave RXEQ1 ant TXEQ1 as FLAT and this combination will be used
for data modes, maybe for WSJT there will be RXEQ9 and TXEQ9 ready but
manually selected when want to go WSJT with specific not so "flat"
soundcard.
The rest of pre-sets will be used for SSB (as using 2 mikes - front
and rear so let´s say TXEQ2 for front and TXEQ3 for rear one) and
surely there will be at least 1 RXEQ for SSB and 2 or three RXEQ
settings for CW (as using several headphones/loudpeakers etc..)

Sorry if going so deep in my dreams :-)



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[Alexandr Kobranov]

Just short answer for
> maybe you could briefly explain why WSJT would benefit from
> other than flat eq?
When using some soundcards (it was probably some SoundBlaster not so
bad but not the best one) I used TX EQ for power conformity in all
used tones. Do not remember exactly now but output power vary by some
dB´s. It was possible to compensate power levels to one value by
playing with TX EQ (as frq of EQ are not just as WSJT tones are it was
really playing :-)).
Maybe there is also some influence of TX filter ripple etc. but no
serious measurements were done - simply output Power was aligned by EQ.
This is the story, maybe somebody else has more experience and
details/masurements.
I am also not sure what is done with phase of signal when EQ is in
action - this can be critical, I suppose. (but my sigs were decoded so
not destroyed by phase error in my case).

73!
L. -dst-


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[KK7P]

> I am also not sure what is done with phase of signal when EQ is in
> action...

The equalizer is a constant delay (linear phase) FIR filter, so phase
distortion should not occur.

73,

Lyle KK7P
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[Jim Brown-10]

On Thu, 6 Nov 2008 01:05:51 -0800 (PST), Julian, G4ILO wrote:

>It might actually be more useful if the equalizer was bypassed when
>LINE IN is used, rather than by mode.

That's a very BAD idea. Equalization often needs to be applied to
Line In audio, both for playback of voice messages and to reduce the
effect of hum pickup in the Line In Xfmr.

It WOULD, however, be good to have EQ programmable by mode.

73,

Jim Brown K9YC


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