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K3 -TX test not sticky

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briancom

K3 -TX test not sticky

Recently I was doing something requiring that K3 not transmit power.
TX test was selected.

I expected that it would retain this setting after shutdown and
subsequent restart.

It does NOT stick with a K3 S/N 8XXX and FW 5.38.

Is this the way it is supposed to work?

Fortunately we didn't transmit into anything and destroy it.

73 de Brian/K3KO
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Don Wilhelm

Re: K3 -TX test not sticky

Brian,

Yes, TX TEST will not survive a power cycle.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 8/11/2016 10:59 AM, brian wrote:
> Recently I was doing something requiring that K3 not transmit power.
> TX test was selected.
>
> I expected that it would retain this setting after shutdown and
> subsequent restart.
>
> It does NOT stick with a K3 S/N 8XXX and FW 5.38.
>

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briancom

Re: K3 -TX test not sticky

I wonder if this is an oversight or difficult to implement?
The potential $$ it could save are large.

73 de Brian/K3KO
On 8/11/2016 15:12 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:

> Brian,
>
> Yes, TX TEST will not survive a power cycle.
>
> 73,
> Don W3FPR
>
> On 8/11/2016 10:59 AM, brian wrote:
>> Recently I was doing something requiring that K3 not transmit power.
>> TX test was selected.
>>
>> I expected that it would retain this setting after shutdown and
>> subsequent restart.
>>
>> It does NOT stick with a K3 S/N 8XXX and FW 5.38.
>>
>

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3 -TX test not sticky

I would not want it to survive power off and restart. It is too easy
to be in TEST mode at the end of the day, shut down and forget it.
Then on restarting the next day one spends time trying to figure out
why the rig will not transmit ... no thanks!

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 8/11/2016 11:25 AM, brian wrote:

> I wonder if this is an oversight or difficult to implement?
> The potential $$ it could save are large.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
> On 8/11/2016 15:12 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>> Brian,
>>
>> Yes, TX TEST will not survive a power cycle.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 8/11/2016 10:59 AM, brian wrote:

Guy Olinger K2AV

Re: K3 -TX test not sticky

In reply to this post by briancom

Not a chance :>). Not an oversight. Deliberate choice.

Turning a rig off/on is supposed to reset everything except configuration
settings and start it over after such things as power spikes, yada, yada.
Having test mode persist across power cycles would create a lot of
confusion. Same kind of angst as having a firmware update hang before
completion.

Test mode is and always has been TEMPORARY. If you want your no power out
to persist, then turn PWR level to zero. That will persist.

g.

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 11:25 AM, brian <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I wonder if this is an oversight or difficult to implement?
> The potential $$ it could save are large.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>
> On 8/11/2016 15:12 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>
>> Brian,
>>
>> Yes, TX TEST will not survive a power cycle.
>>
>> 73,
>> Don W3FPR
>>
>> On 8/11/2016 10:59 AM, brian wrote:
>>
>>> Recently I was doing something requiring that K3 not transmit power.
>>> TX test was selected.
>>>
>>> I expected that it would retain this setting after shutdown and
>>> subsequent restart.
>>>
>>> It does NOT stick with a K3 S/N 8XXX and FW 5.38.
>>>
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

briancom

Re: K3 -TX test not sticky

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

I guess we can agree to disagree.

It is not as if the K3 doesn't tell you it's in the TX test mode.
Pretty obvious -- especially if you set it purposely.

It is far less destructive in the TX test mode!

If you also have to turn the power manually to zero, what's the point of
having a TX test button?

I don't agree that making it sticky would cause any appreciable number
of additional support issues. There have been plenty of "support
problems" related to TX test with it not being sticky. I'm sure it's on
the list at Elecraft as an item to check if there is no power output.
Interesting that the K3 manual doesn't mention TX test mode as a reason
for No Power Out.

Also I never thought power down and power up was supposed to "fix"
conscious user settings deemed "inappropriate"-- whatever inappropriate
means.

It would be nice to know which settings are not sticky on power up/power
down.

73 de Brian/K3KO

On 8/11/2016 15:34 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:

>
> I would not want it to survive power off and restart. It is too easy
> to be in TEST mode at the end of the day, shut down and forget it.
> Then on restarting the next day one spends time trying to figure out
> why the rig will not transmit ... no thanks!
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
>
>
> On 8/11/2016 11:25 AM, brian wrote:
>> I wonder if this is an oversight or difficult to implement?
>> The potential $$ it could save are large.
>>
>> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>> On 8/11/2016 15:12 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>>> Brian,
>>>
>>> Yes, TX TEST will not survive a power cycle.
>>>
>>> 73,
>>> Don W3FPR
>>>
>>> On 8/11/2016 10:59 AM, brian wrote:
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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Guy Olinger K2AV

Re: K3 -TX test not sticky

Setting power to zero is a very simple way to set a persistent no-power
state that bridges transceiver on/off, which gives you your work-around. I
would assume that kind of usage is very rare.

Turning off the power just long enough to try out all the macro settings
before jumping into a contest is handled well by TX TEST, without any
sticky attribute, just as it is.

I HAVE myself turned PWR down to zero when putting up an AIM4170 to see the
K3's RX input impedances on different bands and inputs, knowing from
somewhere (intuitively?) that TX TEST would not persist, or I could release
it by accidentally holding a "MODE" press too long. I never expected TX
TEST to persist. For those who currently do NOT expect TX TEST to persist,
converting that to sticky is just going to generate tech support calls.

73, Guy

On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 12:48 PM, brian <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I guess we can agree to disagree.
>
> It is not as if the K3 doesn't tell you it's in the TX test mode. Pretty
> obvious -- especially if you set it purposely.
>
> It is far less destructive in the TX test mode!
>
> If you also have to turn the power manually to zero, what's the point of
> having a TX test button?
>
> I don't agree that making it sticky would cause any appreciable number of
> additional support issues. There have been plenty of "support problems"
> related to TX test with it not being sticky. I'm sure it's on the list at
> Elecraft as an item to check if there is no power output. Interesting that
> the K3 manual doesn't mention TX test mode as a reason for No Power Out.
>
> Also I never thought power down and power up was supposed to "fix"
> conscious user settings deemed "inappropriate"-- whatever inappropriate
> means.
>
> It would be nice to know which settings are not sticky on power up/power
> down.
>
> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>
> On 8/11/2016 15:34 PM, Joe Subich, W4TV wrote:
>
>>
>> I would not want it to survive power off and restart. It is too easy
>> to be in TEST mode at the end of the day, shut down and forget it.
>> Then on restarting the next day one spends time trying to figure out
>> why the rig will not transmit ... no thanks!
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/11/2016 11:25 AM, brian wrote:
>>
>>> I wonder if this is an oversight or difficult to implement?
>>> The potential $$ it could save are large.
>>>
>>> 73 de Brian/K3KO
>>> On 8/11/2016 15:12 PM, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>>>
>>>> Brian,
>>>>
>>>> Yes, TX TEST will not survive a power cycle.
>>>>
>>>> 73,
>>>> Don W3FPR
>>>>
>>>> On 8/11/2016 10:59 AM, brian wrote:
>>>>
>>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
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>
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> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Ed Muns

Re: K3 -TX test not sticky

In reply to this post by briancom

I think the current firmware implementation for this (non-sticky) is OK.
But, I sympathize with your concern.

In my use of the K3 (SN-11, SN-17 and SN-4959, with all the possible K3S
upgrades), I sometimes wish TX TEST were sticky through a power cycle, but
most times am glad it is not sticky.

Even though I'm a long-time K3 user, I'm still sometimes baffled when
transmit doesn't work due to the rig being in TX TEST mode. I've lost count
of how many contests I've started with no one coming back to me when I
eventually discover I was still in TX TEST mode from testing before the
contest. Thus, the argument for non-sticky.

OTOH, lately I've been spending a lot of time with CSS (the Contest Super
Simulator) and I'm having the opposite issue. I fire up the simulator,
WriteLog and the K3, only to realize (long into my simulation session) that
I am transmitting rather than being in TX TEST mode. This is due to the
non-sticky aspect through a power cycle.

So, I can see both sides, but on balance I believe the current non-sticky
implementation is best.

BTW, one could argue for a user-configuration parameter in CONFIG to choose
between sticky and non-sticky, but I still think that is a waste of Wayne's
valuable firmware time for little benefit.

Ed W0YK
____________________________________________________________________

Brian K3KO wrote:

Recently I was doing something requiring that K3 not transmit power.
TX test was selected.

I expected that it would retain this setting after shutdown and
subsequent restart.

It does NOT stick with a K3 S/N 8XXX and FW 5.38.

Is this the way it is supposed to work?

Fortunately we didn't transmit into anything and destroy it.

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Martin

Re: K3 -TX test not sticky

In reply to this post by briancom

Yeah.
But then you run into the exact problem, because the TX icon ALWAYS
flashes when you have TX INHIBIT engaged. You THINK the K3 is in TEST
MODE, but it isn't. You DONT KNOW if your K3 is in Test Mode or not.
Blinking Icons on a display make me think of something is wrong, in case
of engaged TX INHIBIT nothing is wrong.

My whish for a future firmware update is to eliminate the blinking of
the TX led when TX INHIBIT is engaged. It should only blink when the K3
CAN NOT TX.

Back to 6m.

--

Ohne CW ist es nur CB..

73, Martin DM4iM
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gm3sek

Re: K3 -TX test not sticky

In reply to this post by Ed Muns

Ed W0YK wrote:
>
>BTW, one could argue for a user-configuration parameter in CONFIG
>to choose between sticky and non-sticky, but I still think that is a
>waste of Wayne's valuable firmware time for little benefit.
>

If Wayne does decide to visit this area of code, then please remove the
feature that flashes "TX" forever when TX INH has been selected. That is
not needed, and by flashing all the time, it masks the much more useful
warning that TX TEST has been selected by accident.

73 from Ian GM3SEK

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