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K3: Thinking return to K3.

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Ruben Navarro Huedo-2

K3: Thinking return to K3.

Hello friends:
I am Ruben from Spain.
Around 10 months ago i owned a K3/100 with ATU and original 2.7 filter.
I tested it around 2 months and after that i sold it.
At that moment i didn't like its audio (very crispy for me) and
selectivity with 2.7 filter wasn't better than my old 756pro2.
Now i am thinking buy again one K3, but this time with better filters
and voice keyer.
I my options is also an IC-7600.
I think this question has been done lots of times in this list, but
excuse me, i have to ask...
What do you think?
Is audio better in last units?
With better filters... A lot better selectivity?
Your coments are very helper for my choice.
Has anybody tested a k3 and 7600 at same time?

Thank's a lot friends and happy 2010.

--
Rubén Navarro Huedo - EA5BZ
http://www.palotes.com
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Steve Ellington

Re: K3: Thinking return to K3.

Ruben
Low frequency audio has been extended and some high frequency artifacts have
been reduced on the K3.
If you are an SSB only operator, selectivity won't matter much. For cw, the
narrow roofing filters will prevent the hardware AGC from reducing gain when
a strong signal is just outside the DSP's bandpass. Example....If you only
have the 2.7 filter but have the DSP set for 200Hz width and a strong signal
is 2 Khz away, your hardware AGC may activate and reduce the overall gain
making it difficult to copy the desired signal. That's what roofing filters
are for.
The ICOMS basically don't have a roofing filter worth mentioning. Yes, the
advertise 3 KHZ but that will do you good whatsoever under conditions just
described.
Finally, the scope on the ICOMS is nice but the LP-PAN external unit is far
superior and so will be the planned P3. 73
Steve
N4LQ
[hidden email]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ruben Navarro Huedo" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2010 6:16 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Thinking return to K3.

Hello friends:
I am Ruben from Spain.
Around 10 months ago i owned a K3/100 with ATU and original 2.7 filter.
I tested it around 2 months and after that i sold it.
At that moment i didn't like its audio (very crispy for me) and
selectivity with 2.7 filter wasn't better than my old 756pro2.
Now i am thinking buy again one K3, but this time with better filters
and voice keyer.
I my options is also an IC-7600.
I think this question has been done lots of times in this list, but
excuse me, i have to ask...
What do you think?
Is audio better in last units?
With better filters... A lot better selectivity?
Your coments are very helper for my choice.
Has anybody tested a k3 and 7600 at same time?

Thank's a lot friends and happy 2010.

--
Rubén Navarro Huedo - EA5BZ
http://www.palotes.com
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Thomas Norff

Re: K3: Thinking return to K3.

In reply to this post by Ruben Navarro Huedo-2

Ruben,

i've just done a comparison of both trx (no open decision ... just for
fun...).
My interest is not to be pro or con K3 or other products !
Technically there is no really poorly designed trx.
It's all about design decisions with all associated pros and cons..
At the end we stopped comparing technical values and design decisions ...

The IC7600 is a finished product, while the K3 is still evolving ...

The userinterface of the IC7600 is quite good.
The possibility to connect a keyboard is neat for digital modes.
I also like the haptics and the display.

My K3 will have a nice display in the near future and i also guess there
will be a keyboard connected to the K3 :o)
The NR and the audio of the K3 evolved a lot (a new K3 will include the new
DSP-Board).
So it's more a question of personal preferences.
I like to be part of a community evolving a product.

You have to be shure what features you will need during your typical
operation.
Are you willing to use a computer beside the trx ?

The technical differences will be recognizable only within pileups or
multiple strong signal situations.

This is my personal opinon - YMMV

vy 73 de Thomas, DM7TN
K3/100 #78

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ruben Navarro Huedo
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 12:16 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Thinking return to K3.

Hello friends:
I am Ruben from Spain.
Around 10 months ago i owned a K3/100 with ATU and original 2.7 filter.
I tested it around 2 months and after that i sold it.
At that moment i didn't like its audio (very crispy for me) and selectivity
with 2.7 filter wasn't better than my old 756pro2.
Now i am thinking buy again one K3, but this time with better filters and
voice keyer.
I my options is also an IC-7600.
I think this question has been done lots of times in this list, but excuse
me, i have to ask...
What do you think?
Is audio better in last units?
With better filters... A lot better selectivity?
Your coments are very helper for my choice.
Has anybody tested a k3 and 7600 at same time?

Thank's a lot friends and happy 2010.

--
Rubén Navarro Huedo - EA5BZ
http://www.palotes.com
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wayne burdick

Re: K3: Thinking return to K3.

Administrator

(Disclaimer: I'm biased, by definition :)

The K3 also has:

- a 2nd receiver option with identical performance to the main, which
allows you to listen to two bands at once, or do diversity receive
(the 7600 has "dual-watch", but this cannot provide diversity receive
because both receivers always share one antenna)

- an internal 2-meter option (10 W output, all modes)

- much lighter weight -- less than 10 lb, vs. 22 lb (great for
portable/emergency operation, field day, DXpeditions, etc.)

- about 1/3rd as much receive-mode current drain (~1A vs. 3A)

- over 20 dB better dynamic range in most receive categories:

http://www.sherweng.com/table.html

- very narrow roofing filters (as low as 200 Hz, vs. 3 kHz minimum for
the IC-7600 -- tightest you can get in the high-performance class)

- extensive support for external transverters, including up to 9
programmable bands

- very wide-range ATU (nominally 10:1, but will frequently match 20:1
or better at QRP levels)

- both VFO A and VFO B knobs

- duplicate mic and headphone jacks on rear panel (good for keeping
cables away from front of the rig)

73,
Wayne
N6KR

On Jan 5, 2010, at 5:26 PM, Thomas Norff wrote:

> Ruben,
>
> i've just done a comparison of both trx (no open decision ... just for
> fun...).
> My interest is not to be pro or con K3 or other products !
> Technically there is no really poorly designed trx.
> It's all about design decisions with all associated pros and cons..
> At the end we stopped comparing technical values and design
> decisions ...
>
> The IC7600 is a finished product, while the K3 is still evolving ...
>
> The userinterface of the IC7600 is quite good.
> The possibility to connect a keyboard is neat for digital modes.
> I also like the haptics and the display.
>
> My K3 will have a nice display in the near future and i also guess
> there
> will be a keyboard connected to the K3 :o)
> The NR and the audio of the K3 evolved a lot (a new K3 will include
> the new
> DSP-Board).
> So it's more a question of personal preferences.
> I like to be part of a community evolving a product.
>
> You have to be shure what features you will need during your typical
> operation.
> Are you willing to use a computer beside the trx ?
>
> The technical differences will be recognizable only within pileups or
> multiple strong signal situations.
>
> This is my personal opinon - YMMV
>
> vy 73 de Thomas, DM7TN
> K3/100 #78
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ruben Navarro
> Huedo
> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 12:16 AM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Thinking return to K3.
>
> Hello friends:
> I am Ruben from Spain.
> Around 10 months ago i owned a K3/100 with ATU and original 2.7
> filter.
> I tested it around 2 months and after that i sold it.
> At that moment i didn't like its audio (very crispy for me) and
> selectivity
> with 2.7 filter wasn't better than my old 756pro2.
> Now i am thinking buy again one K3, but this time with better
> filters and
> voice keyer.
> I my options is also an IC-7600.
> I think this question has been done lots of times in this list, but
> excuse
> me, i have to ask...
> What do you think?
> Is audio better in last units?
> With better filters... A lot better selectivity?
> Your coments are very helper for my choice.
> Has anybody tested a k3 and 7600 at same time?
>
> Thank's a lot friends and happy 2010.
>
> --
> Rubén Navarro Huedo - EA5BZ
> http://www.palotes.com
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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Philippe Trottet

Re: K3: Thinking return to K3.

In reply to this post by Ruben Navarro Huedo-2

Dear Ruben,
The mailing list and the support from Electraft are outstanding and a
bit surprised you haven't founded the right adjustments. Just think this
rig is not like the others.
If you want a limousine the usual rigs are perfect, if you want a F1
performer Elecraft rigs are the choice.
Personally I'm improving it weeks after weeks, thanks to all
Elecrafters who shared their experience and I can tell you after testing
most of the Professional and Hams rigs on the market for decades,
Elecraft waked my Ham spirit, thanks to Wayne & Eric.
As a Ham radio what a pleasure to adjust itself all parameters in order
to take the best of that rig.
Hope you will join back the Elecrafters soon. May be one day on the air
!
Happy New year 2010 to you and your family.
Bst 73's
Philippe A65BI
K3#3616

http://www.qrz.com/callsign/A65BI

Philippe TROTTET
Head of Field Telecom Unit - DUBAI

United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees
International Humanitarian City
Office Building Nº3 - Room 2, 1st Floor
Doha Street
PO BOX: 506013
DUBAI - U.A.E.

Dubai time: GMT +4
W: Sunday to Thursday
HQ Ext: 7120
Vsat: xx 41 22 7120
External:
+971 4 3601753
+41 22 739 7120
Mobile: +971 504531756
Website: www.unhcr.org ( http://www.unhcr.org/ )

>>> Ruben Navarro Huedo <[hidden email]> 06-01-2010 3:16 >>>
Hello friends:
I am Ruben from Spain.
Around 10 months ago i owned a K3/100 with ATU and original 2.7
filter.
I tested it around 2 months and after that i sold it.
At that moment i didn't like its audio (very crispy for me) and
selectivity with 2.7 filter wasn't better than my old 756pro2.
Now i am thinking buy again one K3, but this time with better filters
and voice keyer.
I my options is also an IC-7600.
I think this question has been done lots of times in this list, but
excuse me, i have to ask...
What do you think?
Is audio better in last units?
With better filters... A lot better selectivity?
Your coments are very helper for my choice.
Has anybody tested a k3 and 7600 at same time?

Thank's a lot friends and happy 2010.

--
Rubén Navarro Huedo - EA5BZ
http://www.palotes.com
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K2QI

Re: K3: Thinking return to K3.

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but don't forget about Yaesu's new
FT-5000 as well. That's something in my opinion worth investigating once it
hits dealer shelves.

Vy 73 de James K2QI
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--... ...-- -.. . .--- .- -- . ...

Ruben Navarro Huedo-2

Re: K3: Thinking return to K3.

Price range of Yaesu 5000 is very high for me. It will be around the
same as Icom 7700.

Rubén Navarro Huedo
Enviado móvil / portable.

El 06/01/2010, a las 13:30, James Sarte <[hidden email]> escribió:

> Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but don't forget about Yaesu's new
> FT-5000 as well. That's something in my opinion worth investigating
> once it
> hits dealer shelves.
>
> Vy 73 de James K2QI
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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Rick Prather

Re: K3: Thinking return to K3.

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

While the 7600 has some nice features and will appeal to a lot of people if I were on the fence I wouldn't be after reading the QST review.

Just comparing the CW waveform, Transmitted hash and especially the graphs for IMD, BDR, etc. would put me solidly in the K3 camp.

The second receiver would be another deal breaker for me. I have it and love it!

Also, you may want to consider how people who bought the Pro III in the last year or so feel right now. While the 7600 is not a huge improvement they don't have the newest model and are behind on some specs and features. While at the same time, someone that bought a K3 two years ago can have an equivalent radio to a new one without having to replace the old one and take the resale hit.

Buy the K3 kit and enjoy the satisfaction of putting it together yourself. I sure do.

Rick
K6LE

>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Ruben Navarro
>> Huedo
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 12:16 AM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: [Elecraft] K3: Thinking return to K3.
>>
>> Hello friends:
>> I am Ruben from Spain.
>> Around 10 months ago i owned a K3/100 with ATU and original 2.7
>> filter.
>> I tested it around 2 months and after that i sold it.
>> At that moment i didn't like its audio (very crispy for me) and
>> selectivity
>> with 2.7 filter wasn't better than my old 756pro2.
>> Now i am thinking buy again one K3, but this time with better
>> filters and
>> voice keyer.
>> I my options is also an IC-7600.
>> I think this question has been done lots of times in this list, but
>> excuse
>> me, i have to ask...
>> What do you think?
>> Is audio better in last units?
>> With better filters... A lot better selectivity?
>> Your coments are very helper for my choice.
>> Has anybody tested a k3 and 7600 at same time?
>>
>> Thank's a lot friends and happy 2010.
>>
>> --
>> Rubén Navarro Huedo - EA5BZ
>> http://www.palotes.com
>> ___
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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Bill Steffey NY9H

Re: K3: Thinking return to K3.

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Wayne wrote: The K3 also has:

>- a 2nd receiver option with identical performance to the main, which
>allows you to listen to two bands at once, or do diversity receive
>(the 7600 has "dual-watch", but this cannot provide diversity receive
>because both receivers always share one antenna)

"dual watch" while better than one receiver is never to be confused
with two receivers. You cannot split the audio outputs of the "dual
watch" since there ARE NOT two FULL receivers. So if you want to
split the audio , as in DX in one ear , the Dx's listening frequency
in the other ear you will need two receivers...
in ICOM that is the ICOM 7800.

And I understand that the 7800 is not as good for diversity
reception... as the K3.

bill

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Mark Bayern-3

Re: K3: Thinking return to K3.

In reply to this post by wayne burdick

Another Elecraft feature to add to Wayne's list:

- a reply to your question from the rig's designer.

On Tue, Jan 5, 2010 at 8:36 PM, Wayne Burdick <[hidden email]> wrote:

> (Disclaimer: I'm biased, by definition :)
>
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Brendan Minish

Re: K3: Thinking return to K3.

In reply to this post by Bill Steffey NY9H

The 7800 is terrible for diversity, there are two issues that make it
nearly unusable for diversity

1/ the Main and Sub RX cannot track (tune together )
2/ there is constant but small frequency offset between the main and sub
RX, this is present all the time, even with an external 10MHz reference
oscillator.
The main and sub Receivers have slightly different IF frequencies
(100KHz apart if I recall correctly ) as a result the 2DDS Local
oscillators have differing decimation errors and this results in a small
frequency offset at all times between main and sub, this makes Diversity
reception very difficult and unpleasant to use.

been there, done that ;-0

73
Brendan EI6IZ

ny9h wrote:
> And I understand that the 7800 is not as good for diversity
> reception... as the K3.
>
> bill
>
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Bill W4ZV

Re: K3: Thinking return to K3.

In reply to this post by K2QI

K2QI wrote

Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but don't forget about Yaesu's new
FT-5000 as well. That's something in my opinion worth investigating once it
hits dealer shelves.

I believe those who buy the FT-5000 because of its Sub RX will be disappointed...as I was with Orion's. The FT-5000 design is basically an Orion clone and will suffer the same Sub RX problems:

1. True diversity will not be possible due to slightly different frequencies between Main and Sub.
2. Strong-signal handling of the Sub will be very poor.

Time will tell but that's my prediction as an ex-Orion owner for 4 years.

73, Bill

Dick Williams-2

Re: K3: Thinking return to K3.

Speaking of the new FT-5000; one will have to admit that when technology
improves, the FT-5000 will make a much better "boat anchor" than the K3.
But today, one really great feature of the K3 is that I don't need a "block
and tackle" to move it into position in the shack.
Dick K8ZTT

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Bill W4ZV
Sent: Wednesday, January 06, 2010 3:21 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] K3: Thinking return to K3.

K2QI wrote:
>
> Just playing Devil's Advocate here, but don't forget about Yaesu's new
> FT-5000 as well. That's something in my opinion worth investigating once
> it
> hits dealer shelves.
>

I believe those who buy the FT-5000 because of its Sub RX will be
disappointed...as I was with Orion's. The FT-5000 design is basically an
Orion clone and will suffer the same Sub RX problems:

1. True diversity will not be possible due to slightly different
frequencies between Main and Sub.
2. Strong-signal handling of the Sub will be very poor.

Time will tell but that's my prediction as an ex-Orion owner for 4 years.

73, Bill

--
View this message in context:
http://n2.nabble.com/K3-Thinking-return-to-K3-tp4258113p4263693.html
Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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AD4C2009

Re: K3: Thinking return to K3.

In reply to this post by Ruben Navarro Huedo-2

Unfortunately the price of the new FTDX-5000 in any of his versions will be far to reach by many of us but its a very promising radio,finally by first time Yaesu started using real roofing filters with 6 poles instead of the non efficient MCF,that surely will be a good radio to consider when thinking to buy a new one if you can afford it.

AD4C

"For a refined ham it is compulsory to own a k3"

--- On Wed, 1/6/10, Rubén Navarro Huedo <[hidden email]> wrote:

From: Rubén Navarro Huedo <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: Thinking return to K3.
To: "James Sarte" <[hidden email]>
Cc: "Elecraft" <[hidden email]>
Date: Wednesday, January 6, 2010, 1:10 PM

Price range of Yaesu 5000 is very high for me. It will be around the
same as Icom 7700.

Rubén Navarro Huedo
Enviado móvil / portable.

El 06/01/2010, a las 13:30, James Sarte <[hidden email]> escribió:

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alorona

Re: K3: Thinking return to K3.

In reply to this post by Dick Williams-2

> ...the FT-5000 will make a much better "boat anchor" than the K3...
> Dick K8ZTT

That's a really good point, Dick. I heard once-- don't know how true this is-- that while steel is plentiful in Japan aluminum is not and is too expensive to use in a radio chassis. Hence, most Japanese radios are made out of steel. This makes them way heavier but a nice side effect is that the magnetic shielding of steel is much better than aluminum, so Japanese radios aren't so susceptible to low frequency magnetic fields like from a power supply transformer.

Most hams misinterpret the weight advantage of the typical Japanese radio to mean that there's more stuff inside. :^)

Give me a light radio any day over one that, like you say, needs a block&tackle to carry from floor to table.

Al W6LX

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