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K3 Thoughts

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John Lyon-4

K3 Thoughts

Hi Elecrafters,

Elecraft has specialized in ham rigs (yes, I'm old enough to have earned
the right to call them rigs)
that have two main characteristics: high ham band performance and
cost-effective design. That
they also provide the best support and customer service in this
nitch-market is icing on the cake.

The two principals in this small company have bet the farm on bringing
out a high-performance,
relatively affordable rig to a more mainstream ham market - at an age
when most would be
seeking safety and security in the background. Their business model of
contained growth, without
being driven by marketers and bean counters, is smart and common-sense.

Some people don't like the way the K3 was designed or operates. The ME
ME ME generation is
free to trade in their cars on a kilobuck Yeawoodcom rig of their
choice. Then, when it doesn't meet
your particular preferences, you can address your needs to those
manufacturers - and they will have
you fixed up in a jiffy.

Or try Ten Tec. They are currently trying to change our perception of
them the old fashioned way,
with advertising rather than excellent customer service. And while
you're there, ask them when
they are going to get the Orion software straightened out.

Meanwhile, we K3 owners are going to take this little high-performance
box that one can lift with
a pinky, sling it over our shoulder in Rose's case, and take it anywhere
we want to operate. Try
that with your 7800.

Bravo, Elecraft.

73,

John W9LHG
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hf4me

Re: K3 Thoughts

THANK YOU.

73 de Jim KG0KP

----- Original Message -----
From: "John Lyon" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2008 10:41 AM
Subject: [Elecraft] K3 Thoughts

> Hi Elecrafters,
>
> Elecraft has specialized in ham rigs (yes, I'm old enough to have earned
> the right to call them rigs)
> that have two main characteristics: high ham band performance and
> cost-effective design. That
> they also provide the best support and customer service in this
> nitch-market is icing on the cake.
>
> The two principals in this small company have bet the farm on bringing
> out a high-performance,
> relatively affordable rig to a more mainstream ham market - at an age
> when most would be
> seeking safety and security in the background. Their business model of
> contained growth, without
> being driven by marketers and bean counters, is smart and common-sense.
>
>
> Some people don't like the way the K3 was designed or operates. The ME
> ME ME generation is
> free to trade in their cars on a kilobuck Yeawoodcom rig of their
> choice. Then, when it doesn't meet
> your particular preferences, you can address your needs to those
> manufacturers - and they will have
> you fixed up in a jiffy.
>
> Or try Ten Tec. They are currently trying to change our perception of
> them the old fashioned way,
> with advertising rather than excellent customer service. And while
> you're there, ask them when
> they are going to get the Orion software straightened out.
>
> Meanwhile, we K3 owners are going to take this little high-performance
> box that one can lift with
> a pinky, sling it over our shoulder in Rose's case, and take it anywhere
> we want to operate. Try
> that with your 7800.
>
> Bravo, Elecraft.
>
> 73,
>
> John W9LHG
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
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> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

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Aubrey-15

Re: K3 Thoughts

> Bravo, Elecraft.
>
> 73,
>
> John W9LHG
> _______________________________________________

B R A V O J O H N !!!

73 de Aubrey.W6ODG
San Marcos, CA

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Dave Agsten

RE: K3 Thoughts

In reply to this post by John Lyon-4

Well said John,

The ME, ME, ME generation is everywhere these days. Unfortunately, that includes ham radio. All of the "MEs" want their own custom K3. I love the K3 just the way it is. I look forward to whatever Wayne, Eric and company decide to incorporate into the K3 or other radios in the future. I concede the fact that I don't know how to design a radio like the K3. Many on here apparently think they could do a better job with their "better" ideas. I'm willing to simply learn how to operate a new radio whether or not it has one button band selection, band "stacking" functions, or size issues, etc.etc.etc. So much of it comes across as whining, not constructive suggestions. Everyone has the right to make their own choice when purchasing a radio. If they don't like their K3, they can sell it and buy something that satisfies their "ME" without having to compromise. ( Good luck there!) Maybe these folks should spend more time operatng and less whining.

73,
Dave N8AG

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N4LQ-2

Re: RE: K3 Thoughts

This is all wrong. No one should feel guilty for bringing up problems,
making suggestions or discussing better ways to make the K3 operate. In
fact, Elecraft designed the K3 with just this in mind and has already made
dozens of firmware changes based on "Better Ideas".
Therefore, I refuse to accept any of this reprimand and hereby relegate the
last posting to the scrap heap.
I believe the K3 is without a doubt the best HF rig on the market right now
and Elecraft will continue improving it based on our experiences and
contributions. We should not be worried about accusations of whining and
"ME" generations. Our complaints and suggestions are being monitored by
Elecraft. Some can and will be adapted and some will not.
The bandswitch issue is not a deal breaker for me or anyone else I know of.
Yes, I would have done it differently. I would have just put one knob on the
front panel for bandswitching instead of the band button. What a nostalgic
concept! 73
Steve Ellington
[hidden email]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Agsten" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 8:22 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] RE: K3 Thoughts

> Well said John,
>
> The ME, ME, ME generation is everywhere these days. Unfortunately, that
> includes ham radio. All of the "MEs" want their own custom K3. I love the
> K3 just the way it is. I look forward to whatever Wayne, Eric and company
> decide to incorporate into the K3 or other radios in the future. I concede
> the fact that I don't know how to design a radio like the K3. Many on here
> apparently think they could do a better job with their "better" ideas. I'm
> willing to simply learn how to operate a new radio whether or not it has
> one button band selection, band "stacking" functions, or size issues,
> etc.etc.etc. So much of it comes across as whining, not constructive
> suggestions. Everyone has the right to make their own choice when
> purchasing a radio. If they don't like their K3, they can sell it and buy
> something that satisfies their "ME" without having to compromise. ( Good
> luck there!) Maybe these folks should spend more time operatng and less
> whining.
>
> 73,
> Dave N8AG
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

N5GE

Re: RE: K3 Thoughts

In reply to this post by Dave Agsten

On Sun, 1 Jun 2008 17:22:56 -0700 (PDT), Dave Agsten <[hidden email]> wrote:

>Well said John,
>
>The ME, ME, ME generation is everywhere these days. Unfortunately, that includes ham radio. All of the "MEs" want their own custom K3. I love the K3 just the way it is. I look forward to whatever Wayne, Eric and company decide to incorporate into the K3 or other radios in the future. I concede the fact that I don't know how to design a radio like the K3. Many on here apparently think they could do a better job with their "better" ideas. I'm willing to simply learn how to operate a new radio whether or not it has one button band selection, band "stacking" functions, or size issues, etc.etc.etc. So much of it comes across as whining, not constructive suggestions. Everyone has the right to make their own choice when purchasing a radio. If they don't like their K3, they can sell it and buy something that satisfies their "ME" without having to compromise. ( Good luck there!) Maybe these folks should spend more time operatng and less whining.
>
>73,
>Dave N8AG
>
[snip]

"GET WHAT YOU WANT AND GET IT NOW!"
Late 1990's Mitsubishi radio advertisement...

Tom, N5GE - SWOT 3537 - Grid EM12jq

"Those who would give up
Essential Liberty to
purchase a little Temporary
Safety deserve neither
Liberty nor Safety"

An excerpt from a letter
written in 1755 from the
Assembly to the Governor
of Pennsylvania.

Support the entire Constitution, not
just the parts you like.

http://www.n5ge.com
http://www.eQSL.cc/Member.cfm?N5GE

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Amateur Radio Operator N5GE

Dennis McAlpine

RE: RE: K3 Thoughts

In reply to this post by N4LQ-2

If no one spoke up, we would all still be driving Black Model Ts. And,
forget about elections or anything else that might be considered different.

As a contester, I would have preferred something other than the existing
band switch, e.g. pushbuttons for each band, but I can live with the current
one. So don't call me "egocentric" or whatever just because I have
different preferences.

We can all live with our little idiosyncrasies and actually learn from
others. Steve - keep making suggestions - even if we all disagree with them
and they all geet ignored.

73,

Dennis, K2SX

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of n4lq
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 9:38 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RE: K3 Thoughts

This is all wrong. No one should feel guilty for bringing up problems,
making suggestions or discussing better ways to make the K3 operate. In
fact, Elecraft designed the K3 with just this in mind and has already made
dozens of firmware changes based on "Better Ideas".
Therefore, I refuse to accept any of this reprimand and hereby relegate the
last posting to the scrap heap.
I believe the K3 is without a doubt the best HF rig on the market right now
and Elecraft will continue improving it based on our experiences and
contributions. We should not be worried about accusations of whining and
"ME" generations. Our complaints and suggestions are being monitored by
Elecraft. Some can and will be adapted and some will not.
The bandswitch issue is not a deal breaker for me or anyone else I know of.
Yes, I would have done it differently. I would have just put one knob on the

front panel for bandswitching instead of the band button. What a nostalgic
concept! 73
Steve Ellington
[hidden email]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Agsten" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Cc: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 8:22 PM
Subject: [Elecraft] RE: K3 Thoughts

> Well said John,
>
> The ME, ME, ME generation is everywhere these days. Unfortunately, that
> includes ham radio. All of the "MEs" want their own custom K3. I love the
> K3 just the way it is. I look forward to whatever Wayne, Eric and company

> decide to incorporate into the K3 or other radios in the future. I concede

> the fact that I don't know how to design a radio like the K3. Many on here

> apparently think they could do a better job with their "better" ideas. I'm

> willing to simply learn how to operate a new radio whether or not it has
> one button band selection, band "stacking" functions, or size issues,
> etc.etc.etc. So much of it comes across as whining, not constructive
> suggestions. Everyone has the right to make their own choice when
> purchasing a radio. If they don't like their K3, they can sell it and buy
> something that satisfies their "ME" without having to compromise. ( Good
> luck there!) Maybe these folks should spend more time operatng and less
> whining.
>
> 73,
> Dave N8AG
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----

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5:28 PM

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AC7AC

RE: RE: K3 Thoughts

In reply to this post by N4LQ-2

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.

w7aqk

Re: RE: K3 Thoughts

In reply to this post by N4LQ-2

Well, both (all) of you are right! How about that? You've probably all
heard the old story about the pessimist and the optomist. A pessimistic
child is put in a room full of wonderful toys. An hour later they find him
in the corner sitting quietly. When asked why he is sitting in the corner,
he says he is afraid he might break one. The optomistic child is put in a
room full of horse manure. An hour later they find him digging feverishly
through the pile. When asked what he is doing, he says, "with all this
manure, there has to be a pony in here somewhere!".

There has been a steady stream of suggestions for the K3. Many of them are
very individualistic preferences, and probably not practical or universally
beneficial. But there are probably some ponies in there too--quite a few in
fact. The real question is whether or not the folks at Elecraft have the
time and/or the inclination to effectively evaluate them. Well, they
created a transceiver that is "upgradeable", and folks are just trying to
help them accomplish that feat--at least by being part of the idea pool.
But it probably would be a good thing if folks would contemplate the real
value their suggestions might have. Something that would seem to satisfy
only a very limited number of users may not be a helpful suggestion. But
then again, you never know until you ask! Suggestions that seem to be only
achievable by redesigning the radio itself probably aren't helpful. The
physical limits of the radio have to be accepted. Those ideas should
probably be directed to the "K4" inbox.

But I tend to sympathize more with Steve's position. For one thing, an idea
that may seem even a bit "hairbrained" at first, might not be so once it is
given consideration by someone capable of translating that to the radio's
ability. I remember distinctly at Dayton in 2007, when we were given a
preview of the K3 by Wayne and Eric, that some queries were put forth rather
sheepishly, only to have Wayne respond "We can do that!". In a couple of
instances he simply turned to the K3 on display and pushed a button or two.
Voila! It was already doable!

So, I think suggestions are appropriate, at least in most cases. The
Elecraft folks have lots of idea, but they don't have nearly all the good
ones in mind! If you get a positive response, good for you. Just remember
there are only so many hours in the day in Aptos, just like at your QTH. If
you don't get the response you hoped for, try to be cognizant of the
problems with which they are already dealing. It's certainly
counterproductive to become belligerent about it, or to start ranting about
the K3 being inadequate. It is what it is. It can be (and will be) more.
But it can't be everything! If a suggestion or alternative offered doesn't
satisfy you, it would be nice if it were accepted more gracefully by some,
rather than pouting about it. If you have a better option elsewhere, go for
it! Every radio out there has some disappointments--some more glaring than
others. The K3 has some warts, but most of them are being worked on, and
feverishly. Some warts won't be resolved. At least with the K3 the motto
seems to be "ask and ye shall receive---provided we can figure out how to do
it!"

Dave W7AQK

----- Original Message -----
From: "n4lq" <[hidden email]>
To: <[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 6:38 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] RE: K3 Thoughts

> This is all wrong. No one should feel guilty for bringing up problems,
> making suggestions or discussing better ways to make the K3 operate. In
> fact, Elecraft designed the K3 with just this in mind and has already made
> dozens of firmware changes based on "Better Ideas".
> Therefore, I refuse to accept any of this reprimand and hereby relegate
> the last posting to the scrap heap.
> I believe the K3 is without a doubt the best HF rig on the market right
> now and Elecraft will continue improving it based on our experiences and
> contributions. We should not be worried about accusations of whining and
> "ME" generations. Our complaints and suggestions are being monitored by
> Elecraft. Some can and will be adapted and some will not.
> The bandswitch issue is not a deal breaker for me or anyone else I know
> of. Yes, I would have done it differently. I would have just put one knob
> on the front panel for bandswitching instead of the band button. What a
> nostalgic concept! 73
> Steve Ellington
> [hidden email]
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Dave Agsten" <[hidden email]>
> To: <[hidden email]>
> Cc: <[hidden email]>
> Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 8:22 PM
> Subject: [Elecraft] RE: K3 Thoughts
>
>
>> Well said John,
>>
>> The ME, ME, ME generation is everywhere these days. Unfortunately, that
>> includes ham radio. All of the "MEs" want their own custom K3. I love the
>> K3 just the way it is. I look forward to whatever Wayne, Eric and
>> company decide to incorporate into the K3 or other radios in the future.
>> I concede the fact that I don't know how to design a radio like the K3.
>> Many on here apparently think they could do a better job with their
>> "better" ideas. I'm willing to simply learn how to operate a new radio
>> whether or not it has one button band selection, band "stacking"
>> functions, or size issues, etc.etc.etc. So much of it comes across as
>> whining, not constructive suggestions. Everyone has the right to make
>> their own choice when purchasing a radio. If they don't like their K3,
>> they can sell it and buy something that satisfies their "ME" without
>> having to compromise. ( Good luck there!) Maybe these folks should spend
>> more time operatng and less whining.
>>
>> 73,
>> Dave N8AG
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Post to: [hidden email]
>> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
>> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>> http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>>
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
>> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG.
> Version: 8.0.100 / Virus Database: 269.24.4/1477 - Release Date: 6/1/2008
> 5:28 PM
>
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
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> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

Lennart Michaëlsson

SV: RE: K3 Thoughts

David said:
"
There has been a steady stream of suggestions for the K3. Many of them are
very individualistic preferences, and probably not practical or universally
beneficial. But there are probably some ponies in there too--quite a few in
fact. The real question is whether or not the folks at Elecraft have the
time and/or the inclination to effectively evaluate them. Well, they
created a transceiver that is "upgradeable", and folks are just trying to
help them accomplish that feat--at least by being part of the idea pool.
But it probably would be a good thing if folks would contemplate the real
value their suggestions might have. Something that would seem to satisfy
only a very limited number of users may not be a helpful suggestion. But
then again, you never know until you ask! Suggestions that seem to be only
achievable by redesigning the radio itself probably aren't helpful. The
physical limits of the radio have to be accepted. Those ideas should
probably be directed to the "K4" inbox.
"
Well, You've probably not heard this (true) story about one of my grandkids
(got 6 of them):
Returning home from school he (Gustav) told his ma that another boy had been
teasing him telling him he was small. Gustav had replied: me? "Are you
bigger than yourself? I am exactly big enough to be me". To me that also
applies to the K3. The small seize in combination with a top performance
inside makes it a great transceiver. Since I got my K3 up and running I have
not even touched the other one's. And you can bring it with you as hand
luggage in a nice case with power supply and other accessories all together
well below the max allowed 8 kg. Eventually there might be a K4 and maybe a
K5 but right now I am very happy with the K3, thank you Elecraft!
Len
SM7BIC

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LB3SA

Re: K3 Thoughts

In reply to this post by John Lyon-4

Well said John!

But I also agree that it is of essense for Elecraft that we are allowed to, and able to give feedback and 'want lists'. Then Elecraft can use this information as they desire to further develop the K3 and maybe even get input to a potential 'K4'. If someone asks for something that is out of scope or just too much; well... no big deal! Then they can just ignore it and life goes on.

Yeasu has a history of 61 HF rigs and they still manage to squeeze in new features/styles/looks just about every release. Icom has made 47 HF radios and Kenwood 36 (ref. RigPix).

So think about this for a minute:
Elecraft is currently on their 4th HF rig. Two of these 4 Elecraft rigs are topping the ARRL QST/Sherwood engineering lists of receivers (and to me a good RX is no doubt #1 priority in a radio). Not all 148 rigs mentioned above are on that particular list but we do have a reasonably clear indication that Wayne and Eric and others at Elecraft are not totally lost when it comes to HF radio design. But even these superstars cannot satisfy every ham radio operator in the world - at least not at the same time - within the same box. But I'm absolutely certain that they are listening and will try their best to develop something even better if and when they can. When was the last time _your_ input helped shape the next YeaWoodComTec rig?

I bet dollars to donuts that Elecraft's next HF rig (K4?) will have one-touch band switching and VFO stacking amongst other things. Personally I like to buy new rigs once in a while and I would be very disappointed if Elecraft didn't release anything new within the next 10 years or so - with or without one-touch everything.

So look at it positively: There _is_ and always will be room for improvement. We have something to look forward to and we have been blessed with an American ham radio manufacturer that caters to us and not only is listening well but actually talks back to us - promptly at that!

You won't hear any complaints from me; but I can't guarantee that I won't come up with suggestions in an effort to assist with the never ending brainstorming. As (experimenting) radio amateurs I don't think it's a big stretch for some of us to never be 100% satisfied with the rig in front of us and to always look for ways to make it better - regardless of how good it is out of the box.

Are - LB3SA
KX1 & K2 in operation and a K3 on order (only 2 months to go! :) )

w7aqk

Re: RE: K3 Thoughts

In reply to this post by Lennart Michaëlsson

Len and All,

I'm not one of those who particularly wants the K3 to be bigger. Like you,
I like its size and portability. It's a lot of radio in a very handy sized
box. Others though, want some things that can only be accomplished by
making the radio bigger.

Your story reminds me of another one, possibly true, but maybe not. A woman
complained that she thought her legs were too short. Her husband replied,
"Well, they both touch the ground, and that's all that really matters!"

Dave W7AQK

----- Original Message -----
From: "Lennart Michaëlsson" <[hidden email]>
To: "David Yarnes" <[hidden email]>; "n4lq" <[hidden email]>;
<[hidden email]>
Sent: Sunday, June 01, 2008 11:38 PM
Subject: SV: [Elecraft] RE: K3 Thoughts

>
> David said:
> "
> There has been a steady stream of suggestions for the K3. Many of them
> are
> very individualistic preferences, and probably not practical or
> universally
> beneficial. But there are probably some ponies in there too--quite a few
> in
> fact. The real question is whether or not the folks at Elecraft have the
> time and/or the inclination to effectively evaluate them. Well, they
> created a transceiver that is "upgradeable", and folks are just trying to
> help them accomplish that feat--at least by being part of the idea pool.
> But it probably would be a good thing if folks would contemplate the real
> value their suggestions might have. Something that would seem to satisfy
> only a very limited number of users may not be a helpful suggestion. But
> then again, you never know until you ask! Suggestions that seem to be
> only
> achievable by redesigning the radio itself probably aren't helpful. The
> physical limits of the radio have to be accepted. Those ideas should
> probably be directed to the "K4" inbox.
> "
> Well, You've probably not heard this (true) story about one of my
> grandkids
> (got 6 of them):
> Returning home from school he (Gustav) told his ma that another boy had
> been
> teasing him telling him he was small. Gustav had replied: me? "Are you
> bigger than yourself? I am exactly big enough to be me". To me that also
> applies to the K3. The small seize in combination with a top performance
> inside makes it a great transceiver. Since I got my K3 up and running I
> have
> not even touched the other one's. And you can bring it with you as hand
> luggage in a nice case with power supply and other accessories all
> together
> well below the max allowed 8 kg. Eventually there might be a K4 and maybe
> a
> K5 but right now I am very happy with the K3, thank you Elecraft!
> Len
> SM7BIC
>
>