K3- To zero beat or not to zero beat
Locked
K3- To zero beat or not to zero beat
 
|
I have noticed the same problem on both my K3 and K3S. I would think the spots and the K3/K3S frequencies would be the same a lot more often than they are.
73,Dick- K9OM In a message dated 2/21/2019 7:09:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, [hidden email] writes: Message: 18Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2019 16:44:12 -0500From: N4ZR <[hidden email]>To: Elecraft List <[hidden email]>Subject: [Elecraft] To zero beat or not to zero beatMessage-ID: <[hidden email]>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Ever since I have owned my K3, I have noticed that most spots put the K3's receiver above the actual frequency of the spotted station.? Initially, I thought this might have to do with DX spots being rounded to the nearest 100 Hz, but then I realized that, if that were the case, X percent of spots should be high, X low, and Y (whatever percent) effectively right on. I've checked the K3's calibration, and it appears to be right on at 10 and 15 MHz, tuning in CW mode to WWV's carrier at my preset beat note.? One possibility that occurred to me is that perhaps the DX cluster convention is always to round up, rather than up or down. Seems a little unlikely to me, but does anyone know the answer?? I'm perfectly happy to keep jogging the main tuning knob a bit on most spots, but thought I'd ask. -- 73, Pete N4ZR ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
|
|
Perhaps what we are seeing here is the cumulative error of the transceivers in the chain.
The DX tunes the rig to 14023 and calls CQ, but their transceiver is just a bit off frequency for one reason or another, so they are really on 14022.95. The spotting station’s transceiver is also a bit off frequency, so when the DX is tuned in, the spotter’s rig shows 14023.1 - and that’s what gets spotted if the frequency is acquired as data from the rig. If the spot is generated by keyboard, then more errors are possible. So when you click the spot, you go to 14023.1 and are .15 off the DX frequency +\- whatever variable your rig might introduce. I don’t have the expectation that when in click on a spot that I will be exactly on the DX frequency. I just like to land in the general neighborhood! -- Mike Flowers, K6MKF, NCDXC - "It's about DX!" > On Feb 21, 2019, at 8:42 PM, RVZ via Elecraft <[hidden email]> wrote: > > I have noticed the same problem on both my K3 and K3S. I would think the spots and the K3/K3S frequencies would be the same a lot more often than they are. > 73,Dick- K9OM > > In a message dated 2/21/2019 7:09:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, [hidden email] writes: > > Message: 18Date: Thu, 21 Feb 2019 16:44:12 -0500From: N4ZR <[hidden email]>To: Elecraft List <[hidden email]>Subject: [Elecraft] To zero beat or not to zero beatMessage-ID: <[hidden email]>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > Ever since I have owned my K3, I have noticed that most spots put the K3's receiver above the actual frequency of the spotted station.? Initially, I thought this might have to do with DX spots being rounded to the nearest 100 Hz, but then I realized that, if that were the case, X percent of spots should be high, X low, and Y (whatever percent) effectively right on. > I've checked the K3's calibration, and it appears to be right on at 10 and 15 MHz, tuning in CW mode to WWV's carrier at my preset beat note.? One possibility that occurred to me is that perhaps the DX cluster convention is always to round up, rather than up or down. > Seems a little unlikely to me, but does anyone know the answer?? I'm perfectly happy to keep jogging the main tuning knob a bit on most spots, but thought I'd ask. > -- > 73, Pete N4ZR > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3- To zero beat or not to zero beat
|
|
In reply to this post by Elecraft mailing list
The method I've used to check my K3S, put the radio in CW mode, tune to
each WWV frequency and then press SPOT. The automatic SPOT function will bring the radio to the WWV frequency +/- 1 Hz. The SPOT function matches the receiver sidetone offset of the WWV carrier and the audio of WWV is not applicable. If the display is other than the WWV frequency, then adjust the REF CAL number to correct the error. You do need to check all of the WWV frequencies you can receive to assure the accuracy holds on all bands. Unfortunately we have come to believe that the digital readouts are absolute, which indeed, they are not. They depend on the internal reference. If the internal reference is incorrect, then everything else is likewise incorrect. 73 Bob, K4TAX On 2/21/2019 10:42 PM, RVZ via Elecraft wrote: > I have noticed the same problem on both my K3 and K3S. I would think the spots and the K3/K3S frequencies would be the same a lot more often than they are. > 73,Dick- K9OM ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3- To zero beat or not to zero beat
|
|
I'm not sure what is gained by checking REF CAL against /all /WWV frequencies. The manual suggests using the highest frequency on which WWV can be copied ... 10 or 15 MHz (10,000 watts), or (better) 20 MHz (2500 watts) if propagation is right. Performing the REF CAL calibration against WWV's main carrier is quick and easy but requires a quiet room and good ears. Drake alumni are used to the procedure having had to flat-line the "chirps" when zero-beating receiver against transmitter, especially on SSB signals. As a reminder for newer ops, the transceiver should be on for at least 15 minutes (according to the manual) before doing the calibration. I personally wait 30 minutes or more, depending on room temperature. One night, a few days after FD, another K3 owner told me I was a couple hundred cycles off our net frequency (CW). Having just gotten the rig back from Elecraft for updates (s.n. 21), I replied, "on your end, pal, can't be on mine". I then checked for myself and discovered I was indeed several hundred cycles off WWV. Since then, I check it every few months. Components do age, you know. Especially 12 year-old ones. 73, Kent K9ZTV On 2/22/2019 9:01 AM, someone wrote: > The method I've used to check my K3S, put the radio in CW mode, tune > to each WWV frequency and then press SPOT. The automatic SPOT > function will bring the radio to the WWV frequency +/- 1 Hz. The SPOT > function matches the receiver sidetone offset of the WWV carrier and > the audio of WWV is not applicable. If the display is other than > the WWV frequency, then adjust the REF CAL number to correct the > error. You do need to check all of the WWV frequencies you can > receive to assure the accuracy holds on all bands. > > Unfortunately we have come to believe that the digital readouts are > absolute, which indeed, they are not. They depend on the internal > reference. If the internal reference is incorrect, then everything > else is likewise incorrect. --- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
|
|
In reply to this post by k6mkf
Another possibility is all those SDR's sitting in unheated sheds sending
RBN spots. That, of course, would lead to more or less random frequency errors. 73, Scott K9MA On 2/21/2019 23:12, Mike Flowers wrote: > Perhaps what we are seeing here is the cumulative error of the transceivers in the chain. > > The DX tunes the rig to 14023 and calls CQ, but their transceiver is just a bit off frequency for one reason or another, so they are really on 14022.95. > > The spotting station’s transceiver is also a bit off frequency, so when the DX is tuned in, the spotter’s rig shows 14023.1 - and that’s what gets spotted if the frequency is acquired as data from the rig. If the spot is generated by keyboard, then more errors are possible. > > So when you click the spot, you go to 14023.1 and are .15 off the DX frequency +\- whatever variable your rig might introduce. > > I don’t have the expectation that when in click on a spot that I will be exactly on the DX frequency. I just like to land in the general neighborhood! > > -- Mike Flowers, K6MKF, NCDXC - "It's about DX!" -- Scott K9MA [hidden email] ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3- To zero beat or not to zero beat
|
In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX
Hi,
if you are using the SPOT function on K3 then be careful... It does not work properly when you have the NTCH in use. I do not know why but I noticed it several times that SPOT is failing with NTCH ON. Also it does not work for 100% when the receiving signal is weak... ----- 73 - Petr, OK1RP "Apple & Elecraft freak" B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com G+:http://goo.gl/w3u2s9 G+: http://goo.gl/gP99xq -- Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/ ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
73 - Petr, OK1RP
"Apple & Elecraft freak" B:http://ok1rp.blogspot.com MeWe: https://bit.ly/2HGPoDx MeWe: https://bit.ly/2FmwvDt |
Re: K3- To zero beat or not to zero beat
|
|
In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX
A better method is to tune the receiver to the carrier frequency of the
highest WWV frequency you can hear. Then put the receiver in SSB mode and look at the line out audio with a soundcard-based spectrum analyzer such as Spectrum Lab (https://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/spectra1.html). Check to see if the 500 Hz and 600 Hz tones are correct. If not, adjust the REF CAL to make them right. Be sure to check on both USB and LSB; you may have to split the (usually very small) difference between the two sideband responses. 73... Randy, W8FN On 2/22/2019 9:01 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: > The method I've used to check my K3S, put the radio in CW mode, tune > to each WWV frequency and then press SPOT. The automatic SPOT > function will bring the radio to the WWV frequency +/- 1 Hz. The SPOT > function matches the receiver sidetone offset of the WWV carrier and > the audio of WWV is not applicable. If the display is other than > the WWV frequency, then adjust the REF CAL number to correct the > error. You do need to check all of the WWV frequencies you can > receive to assure the accuracy holds on all bands. > > Unfortunately we have come to believe that the digital readouts are > absolute, which indeed, they are not. They depend on the internal > reference. If the internal reference is incorrect, then everything > else is likewise incorrect. > > 73 > > Bob, K4TAX ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
|
|
I do the same but use CW mode and reverse-CW. Easier to see difference and more precise adjustments. Dennis K4THE
-----Original Message----- A better method is to tune the receiver to the carrier frequency of the highest WWV frequency you can hear. Then put the receiver in SSB mode and look at the line out audio with a soundcard-based spectrum analyzer such as Spectrum Lab (https://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/spectra1.html). Check to see if the 500 Hz and 600 Hz tones are correct. If not, adjust the REF CAL to make them right. Be sure to check on both USB and LSB; you may have to split the (usually very small) difference between the two sideband responses. Randy, W8FN ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3- To zero beat or not to zero beat
|
|
In reply to this post by Randy Farmer
I wrote about this almost 10 years ago:
http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/Ref-Osc-Cal-Method-4-td2595451.html Wes N7WS On 2/22/2019 10:28 AM, Randy Farmer wrote: > A better method is to tune the receiver to the carrier frequency of the > highest WWV frequency you can hear. Then put the receiver in SSB mode and look > at the line out audio with a soundcard-based spectrum analyzer such as > Spectrum Lab (https://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/spectra1.html). Check to see if the > 500 Hz and 600 Hz tones are correct. If not, adjust the REF CAL to make them > right. Be sure to check on both USB and LSB; you may have to split the > (usually very small) difference between the two sideband responses. > > 73... > Randy, W8FN > > On 2/22/2019 9:01 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote: >> The method I've used to check my K3S, put the radio in CW mode, tune to each >> WWV frequency and then press SPOT. The automatic SPOT function will bring >> the radio to the WWV frequency +/- 1 Hz. The SPOT function matches the >> receiver sidetone offset of the WWV carrier and the audio of WWV is not >> applicable. If the display is other than the WWV frequency, then adjust >> the REF CAL number to correct the error. You do need to check all of the >> WWV frequencies you can receive to assure the accuracy holds on all bands. >> >> Unfortunately we have come to believe that the digital readouts are absolute, >> which indeed, they are not. They depend on the internal reference. If the >> internal reference is incorrect, then everything else is likewise incorrect. >> >> 73 >> >> Bob, K4TAX > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3- To zero beat or not to zero beat
|
|
In reply to this post by Randy Farmer
This is a good method. See my article in ARRL QST, September 2015,
TRANSMIT AND RECEIVE ON FREQUENCY. I suggest using software for PSK-31 as the AFC will always lock onto the audio frequency and then show the actual frequency. It is usually good for 1 Hz resolution. 73 Bob, K4TAX On 2/22/2019 11:28 AM, Randy Farmer wrote: > A better method is to tune the receiver to the carrier frequency of > the highest WWV frequency you can hear. Then put the receiver in SSB > mode and look at the line out audio with a soundcard-based spectrum > analyzer such as Spectrum Lab > (https://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/spectra1.html). Check to see if the 500 Hz > and 600 Hz tones are correct. If not, adjust the REF CAL to make them > right. Be sure to check on both USB and LSB; you may have to split the > (usually very small) difference between the two sideband responses. > > 73... > Randy, W8FN ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
«
Return to Elecraft
|
1 view|%1 views
| Free forum by Nabble | Edit this page |