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K3: USB port

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K2QI

K3: USB port

Hello group,

I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had
considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3,
including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009:

"The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB
rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.

The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still
using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can
use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O
performance between the two methods. "

Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything
more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for
everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry
all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now,
I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate
stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup,
but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to
computer.

--
73 de James K2QI
President UNARC/4U1UN
______________________________________________________________
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Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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--... ...-- -.. . .--- .- -- . ...

Mike Reublin

Re: K3: USB port

I'm not sure how you envision moving the audio to USB.

I think putting the USB port in the K3 would open a Pandora's box re: drivers.

If you're asking to just move the serial to USB adapter into the rig, there is NO gain.

If you're asking to do away with serial port comms entirely and go to USB only,
you're creating a huge hassle for the software authors, as well as opening a
Pandora's box re: drivers for it.

73, Mike NF4L

On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote:

> Hello group,
>
> I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had
> considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3,
> including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009:
>
> "The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB
> rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.
>
> The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still
> using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can
> use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O
> performance between the two methods. "
>
> Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything
> more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for
> everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry
> all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now,
> I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate
> stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup,
> but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to
> computer.
>

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K2QI

Re: K3: USB port

Hi Mike,

I'm not really asking for anything, other than whether or not the USB option
was still in the works. I was just curious. The K3 works fine as is with
its current KIO3 configuration. I didn't realize, as someone else had
already pointed out to me off-list, that this topic is akin to beating a
dead horse. I guess I must have missed those emails; sorry for bringing it
up.

73,
James K2QI

On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Mike <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I'm not sure how you envision moving the audio to USB.
>
> I think putting the USB port in the K3 would open a Pandora's box re:
> drivers.
>
> If you're asking to just move the serial to USB adapter into the rig, there
> is NO gain.
>
> If you're asking to do away with serial port comms entirely and go to USB
> only,
> you're creating a huge hassle for the software authors, as well as opening
> a
> Pandora's box re: drivers for it.
>
> 73, Mike NF4L
>
> On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote:
> > Hello group,
> >
> > I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had
> > considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3,
> > including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009:
> >
> > "The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB
> > rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.
> >
> > The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still
> > using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can
> > use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O
> > performance between the two methods. "
> >
> > Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard
> anything
> > more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for
> > everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to
> carry
> > all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right
> now,
> > I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two
> separate
> > stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that
> setup,
> > but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer
> to
> > computer.
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

--
73 de James K2QI
President UNARC/4U1UN
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
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--... ...-- -.. . .--- .- -- . ...

Tim Tucker

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by Mike Reublin

Count down to thread closure...

USB is Serial comms by definition (Universal SERIAL Bus). Coding for USB is
not a huge hassle for software developers, at all. If it was, it never
would have been adopted as a standard in 1996 (almost 15 years ago).
Drivers aren't really a big issue, either, especially if you're just
starting out using it as a serial DB9 replacement. I've voiced my vote for
a USB port before. It opens up many other possibilities for use besides
just serial comms. I realize there are other priorities, but if the other
rig manufacturers can do it, I have no doubt that Elecraft can. My guess
it's just a matter of "when"

On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 4:50 PM, Mike <[hidden email]> wrote:

Gary Gregory

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by K2QI

I use the USB/serial cable and for me it would mean I junk one piece of
cable.

Being portable, I can set up the tri-band beam on the portable mast with
rotator and feedline and secure it ready to operate FASTER than I can hook
up the K3, P3, interconnect cables for the P3, amplifier, inline meter,
rotator cable, paddle, footswitch, cm-500 headset, external speakers..etc,
etc...go figure eh?...:-)

And I set myself up to be on air in 30 minutes, which I can IF I just plug
in the K3 and a hand mic...:-)

The toys we must have eh?

But it is a blast let me tell you..:-)

73's

gotta go mobile and set up again for another month of DX'ing in a town
called Ravenshoe, Queensland.

Gary

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 10:57 AM, James Sarte (K2QI) <[hidden email]>wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> I'm not really asking for anything, other than whether or not the USB
> option
> was still in the works. I was just curious. The K3 works fine as is with
> its current KIO3 configuration. I didn't realize, as someone else had
> already pointed out to me off-list, that this topic is akin to beating a
> dead horse. I guess I must have missed those emails; sorry for bringing it
> up.
>
> 73,
> James K2QI
>
> On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Mike <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> > I'm not sure how you envision moving the audio to USB.
> >
> > I think putting the USB port in the K3 would open a Pandora's box re:
> > drivers.
> >
> > If you're asking to just move the serial to USB adapter into the rig,
> there
> > is NO gain.
> >
> > If you're asking to do away with serial port comms entirely and go to USB
> > only,
> > you're creating a huge hassle for the software authors, as well as
> opening
> > a
> > Pandora's box re: drivers for it.
> >
> > 73, Mike NF4L
> >
> > On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote:
> > > Hello group,
> > >
> > > I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had
> > > considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3,
> > > including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009:
> > >
> > > "The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB
> > > rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.
> > >
> > > The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still
> > > using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can
> > > use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O
> > > performance between the two methods. "
> > >
> > > Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard
> > anything
> > > more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not
> for
> > > everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to
> > carry
> > > all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right
> > now,
> > > I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two
> > separate
> > > stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that
> > setup,
> > > but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer
> > to
> > > computer.
> > >
> >
> >
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
>
>
>
> --
> 73 de James K2QI
> President UNARC/4U1UN
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

--
Gary
VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile
http://www.qsl.net/vk4fd/
K3 #679, P3 #546
For everything else there's Mastercard!!!
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by K2QI

Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace
the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232
converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get
you audio ...

To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub
and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft
would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do
all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU.

After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB
to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new
level so support burden - providing operating system specific
drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of
signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version
of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX.
By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and
USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each
chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and
serialize each of those chip!

After all of that you have not provided any new capability for
the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware,
development, and ongoing support costs the only thing this exercise
will accomplish is to relieve a relatively small number of users
of the need to purchase a KUSB and allow them to keep their sound-
card free for iTUNES. For all the rest, you have increased the
cost of the K3, added an entirely new level of complexity to the
rig, and perhaps required that the user purchase new hardware to
use their rig with computer control.

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote:

Barry

Re: K3: USB port

Perhaps it's a cost issue. Isn't there a licensing fee that needs to be paid to USB, Inc., or whatever they are called, to use it?
Barry W2UP

Guy, K2AV

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by K2QI

READ the archives on this. The USB suggestion has been beaten to a
bloody pulp over and over again. This subject is like Count Dracula.
It's like the undead coming out of the corn fields.

The devil in the proposal is having your K3 fail every time Microsoft
decides to make another of its several million arbitrary subtle OS
changes, this time to how Universal (ha! Ha!) serial bus actually
operates. And WE will NOT be tested before they dump that into their
automatic updates to a gazillion copies of MS OS, because we do NOT
have 20 million K3 users out there to make the consequences of blowing
us up scare them into actually checking FIRST if it blows us up or
not, BEFORE they release it. Come to think of it, based on the
record, 20 million isn't really enough, is it? The *U* in USB is a
complete joke.

Somebody kill this idea and make it die, and stay dead, please...

73, Guy

On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) <[hidden email]> wrote:

Gary Gregory

Re: K3: USB port

Joe, Guy...

Amen.

Now can we see the shipping dates for the KPA-500's and the KAT-500's
please.

Certainly of more interest to me at least than trying to wade through the
MS-OS-BS...:-)

73's
Gary (almost moving)

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 11:40 AM, Guy Olinger K2AV <[hidden email]>wrote:

> READ the archives on this. The USB suggestion has been beaten to a
> bloody pulp over and over again. This subject is like Count Dracula.
> It's like the undead coming out of the corn fields.
>
> The devil in the proposal is having your K3 fail every time Microsoft
> decides to make another of its several million arbitrary subtle OS
> changes, this time to how Universal (ha! Ha!) serial bus actually
> operates. And WE will NOT be tested before they dump that into their
> automatic updates to a gazillion copies of MS OS, because we do NOT
> have 20 million K3 users out there to make the consequences of blowing
> us up scare them into actually checking FIRST if it blows us up or
> not, BEFORE they release it. Come to think of it, based on the
> record, 20 million isn't really enough, is it? The *U* in USB is a
> complete joke.
>
> Somebody kill this idea and make it die, and stay dead, please...
>
> 73, Guy
>
> On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) <[hidden email]>
> wrote:
> > Hello group,
> >
> > I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had
> > considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3,
> > including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009:
> >
> > "The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB
> > rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.
> >
> > The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still
> > using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can
> > use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O
> > performance between the two methods. "
> >
> > Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard
> anything
> > more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for
> > everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to
> carry
> > all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right
> now,
> > I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two
> separate
> > stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that
> setup,
> > but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer
> to
> > computer.
> >
> > --
> > 73 de James K2QI
> > President UNARC/4U1UN
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Rick Prather-2

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV

Well said Guy!

We should call this a Zombie Thread!

Rick
K6LE

On 11/18/2010, at 5:40 , Guy Olinger K2AV wrote:

Matt Zilmer

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by Tim Tucker

The PC- or MAC-K3/P3 interconnect uses RS232, daisy-chained through
the P3 to the K3. Both the KIO3 and the P3's I/O board are small and
probably not ridiculously expensive, so replacing them could be an
option. However, putting a USB hub on the P3 doesn't seem to be in
the cards (embedded hubs *ought to* go through USB certification).
It's more likely that an external hub would be required - or multiple
ports on the PC or MAC would be used.

Using the USB logo requires membership in the USB-SIG. It's not
expensive. Attending all the plugfests might be. Many companies do
niether one and skip the logo. Elecraft's not like that, IMHO.

There are also RFI issues with USB. Some hams on this list have come
across this, but it's not a general issue AFAIK. I've only had one
such, but replacing the manufacturer-supplied "cable" with a properly
shielded one solved the problem.

The original idea (if memory serves) was that many hams use downrev
computer equipment, most of which support RS232 ports; any HW that
doesn't can use the KUSB or an equivalent adapter.

One way to approach this issue is for someone to come up with a
replacement I/O board for the K3 and another for the P3 [, and someday
with whatever else might be daisy-chained beyond the K3]. I've
actually done a cheap-and-sleazy mockup of this and it works, but
produces too much RFI to be usable. A design with some money behind
it would likely not have this problem.

Don't have any inside info, but USB probably isn't a high priority.
Just look at the newest Elecraft products being brought to market....

matt W6NIA

On Thu, 18 Nov 2010 17:06:18 -0800, you wrote:

>Count down to thread closure...
>
>USB is Serial comms by definition (Universal SERIAL Bus). Coding for USB is
>not a huge hassle for software developers, at all. If it was, it never
>would have been adopted as a standard in 1996 (almost 15 years ago).
>Drivers aren't really a big issue, either, especially if you're just
>starting out using it as a serial DB9 replacement. I've voiced my vote for
>a USB port before. It opens up many other possibilities for use besides
>just serial comms. I realize there are other priorities, but if the other
>rig manufacturers can do it, I have no doubt that Elecraft can. My guess
>it's just a matter of "when"
>
>
>
>On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 4:50 PM, Mike <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I'm not sure how you envision moving the audio to USB.
>>
>> I think putting the USB port in the K3 would open a Pandora's box re:
>> drivers.
>>
>> If you're asking to just move the serial to USB adapter into the rig, there
>> is NO gain.
>>
>> If you're asking to do away with serial port comms entirely and go to USB
>> only,
>> you're creating a huge hassle for the software authors, as well as opening
>> a
>> Pandora's box re: drivers for it.
>>
>> 73, Mike NF4L
>>
>> On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote:
>> > Hello group,
>> >
>> > I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had
>> > considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3,
>> > including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009:
>> >
>> > "The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB
>> > rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.
>> >
>> > The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still
>> > using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can
>> > use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O
>> > performance between the two methods. "
>> >
>> > Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard
>> anything
>> > more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for
>> > everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to
>> carry
>> > all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right
>> now,
>> > I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two
>> separate
>> > stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that
>> setup,
>> > but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer
>> to
>> > computer.
>> >
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

The Smiths

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by Joe Subich, W4TV-4

I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists?

T Smith
SWL

> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:20:33 -0500
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>
>
> Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace
> the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232
> converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get
> you audio ...
>
> To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub
> and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft
> would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do
> all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU.
>
> After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB
> to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new
> level so support burden - providing operating system specific
> drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of
> signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version
> of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX.
> By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and
> USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each
> chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and
> serialize each of those chip!
>
> After all of that you have not provided any new capability for
> the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware,
> development, and ongoing support costs the only thing this exercise
> will accomplish is to relieve a relatively small number of users
> of the need to purchase a KUSB and allow them to keep their sound-
> card free for iTUNES. For all the rest, you have increased the
> cost of the K3, added an entirely new level of complexity to the
> rig, and perhaps required that the user purchase new hardware to
> use their rig with computer control.
>
> 73,
>
> ... Joe, W4TV
>
> On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote:
> > Hello group,
> >
> > I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had
> > considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3,
> > including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009:
> >
> > "The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB
> > rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.
> >
> > The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still
> > using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can
> > use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O
> > performance between the two methods. "
> >
> > Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything
> > more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for
> > everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry
> > all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now,
> > I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate
> > stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup,
> > but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to
> > computer.
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Joe Subich, W4TV-4

Re: K3: USB port

>> I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3
>> using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on
>> Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a
>> voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already
>> exists?

No, you probably don't realize that Spectrogram uses the default
audio input device and that Windows systems commonly default to the
computer's built-in microphone. You are probably getting nothing more
than "acoustic coupling" between the K3 speaker and the computer's
mic. This assumes that you have not intentionally configured the
K3 and computer to use a cable between the K3 Line Out jack and the
computer's Line In jack and made that the default.

There is no audio connection to the K3 RS-232 port ... read the
schematics!

73,

... Joe, W4TV

On 11/19/2010 12:32 AM, The Smiths wrote:

>
> I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3 using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists?
>
> T Smith
> SWL
>
>> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:20:33 -0500
>> From: [hidden email]
>> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>>
>>
>> Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace
>> the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232
>> converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get
>> you audio ...
>>
>> To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub
>> and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft
>> would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do
>> all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU.
>>
>> After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB
>> to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new
>> level so support burden - providing operating system specific
>> drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of
>> signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version
>> of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX.
>> By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and
>> USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each
>> chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and
>> serialize each of those chip!
>>
>> After all of that you have not provided any new capability for
>> the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware,
>> development, and ongoing support costs the only thing this exercise
>> will accomplish is to relieve a relatively small number of users
>> of the need to purchase a KUSB and allow them to keep their sound-
>> card free for iTUNES. For all the rest, you have increased the
>> cost of the K3, added an entirely new level of complexity to the
>> rig, and perhaps required that the user purchase new hardware to
>> use their rig with computer control.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>> On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote:
>>> Hello group,
>>>
>>> I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had
>>> considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3,
>>> including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009:
>>>
>>> "The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB
>>> rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.
>>>
>>> The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still
>>> using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can
>>> use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O
>>> performance between the two methods. "
>>>
>>> Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything
>>> more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for
>>> everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry
>>> all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now,
>>> I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate
>>> stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup,
>>> but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to
>>> computer.
>>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

K2QI

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by Guy, K2AV

Wow. It's a good thing I didn't throw in the subject of knobs too, or otherwise I might have found my apartment surrounded by angry guys carrying pitch forks and torches, hi hi.

Thanks for your gracious input. :)

Vy 73,
James K2QI
Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

-----Original Message-----
From: Guy Olinger K2AV <[hidden email]>
Sender: [hidden email]
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:40:46
To: James Sarte (K2QI)<[hidden email]>
Cc: Elecraft<[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port

READ the archives on this. The USB suggestion has been beaten to a
bloody pulp over and over again. This subject is like Count Dracula.
It's like the undead coming out of the corn fields.

The devil in the proposal is having your K3 fail every time Microsoft
decides to make another of its several million arbitrary subtle OS
changes, this time to how Universal (ha! Ha!) serial bus actually
operates. And WE will NOT be tested before they dump that into their
automatic updates to a gazillion copies of MS OS, because we do NOT
have 20 million K3 users out there to make the consequences of blowing
us up scare them into actually checking FIRST if it blows us up or
not, BEFORE they release it. Come to think of it, based on the
record, 20 million isn't really enough, is it? The *U* in USB is a
complete joke.

Somebody kill this idea and make it die, and stay dead, please...

73, Guy

On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) <[hidden email]> wrote:

--... ...-- -.. . .--- .- -- . ...

Jim Rogers, W4ATK

Re: K3: USB port

Michael, N6MQL wrote:
I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3
using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on Spectrogram
and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a voodoo K3, or
is someone else mistaken that this feature already exists?

T Smith
SWL
Michael, you do indeed have a very unique K3. There is no audio
present on J24 (RS232 CAT port) according to the schematics I
downloaded from Elecraft. I think you must be thinking of the
accessory connector.

73s Jim, W4ATK
On Nov 19, 2010, at 6:59 AM, [hidden email] wrote:

> Wow. It's a good thing I didn't throw in the subject of knobs too,
> or otherwise I might have found my apartment surrounded by angry
> guys carrying pitch forks and torches, hi hi.
>
> Thanks for your gracious input. :)
>
> Vy 73,
> James K2QI
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Guy Olinger K2AV <[hidden email]>
> Sender: [hidden email]
> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:40:46
> To: James Sarte (K2QI)<[hidden email]>
> Cc: Elecraft<[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>
> READ the archives on this. The USB suggestion has been beaten to a
> bloody pulp over and over again. This subject is like Count Dracula.
> It's like the undead coming out of the corn fields.
>
> The devil in the proposal is having your K3 fail every time Microsoft
> decides to make another of its several million arbitrary subtle OS
> changes, this time to how Universal (ha! Ha!) serial bus actually
> operates. And WE will NOT be tested before they dump that into their
> automatic updates to a gazillion copies of MS OS, because we do NOT
> have 20 million K3 users out there to make the consequences of blowing
> us up scare them into actually checking FIRST if it blows us up or
> not, BEFORE they release it. Come to think of it, based on the
> record, 20 million isn't really enough, is it? The *U* in USB is a
> complete joke.
>
> Somebody kill this idea and make it die, and stay dead, please...
>
> 73, Guy
>
> On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) <[hidden email]
> > wrote:
>> Hello group,
>>
>> I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had
>> considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the
>> K3,
>> including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009:
>>
>> "The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has
>> USB
>> rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.
>>
>> The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still
>> using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can
>> use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in
>> I/O
>> performance between the two methods. "
>>
>> Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard
>> anything
>> more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's
>> not for
>> everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability
>> to carry
>> all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient.
>> Right now,
>> I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two
>> separate
>> stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with
>> that setup,
>> but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from
>> computer to
>> computer.
>>
>> --
>> 73 de James K2QI
>> President UNARC/4U1UN
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

JIM ROGERS
[hidden email]
http://web.me.com/jimrogers_w4atk

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Dan Copeland

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by Mike Reublin

I can understand why a lot of old timers want to stay with serial port for
the K3.
Many people just don't like change. The simple fact is the world has moved
on
Something like 15 years ago. USB is the standard and a product like the K3
which
In many ways is cutting edge should move on also.

When was the last time you saw a new computer with serial port or a floppy
drive?
It can't be that hard to change to USB. There are plenty of $10 items that
support it
So it must be cheep. I figure it is a lack of will on Elecraft's part.

As to the negative comments...Can't and won't never did anything.

Dan N0DT

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Thursday, November 18, 2010 6:51 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port

I'm not sure how you envision moving the audio to USB.

I think putting the USB port in the K3 would open a Pandora's box re:
drivers.

If you're asking to just move the serial to USB adapter into the rig, there
is NO gain.

If you're asking to do away with serial port comms entirely and go to USB
only,
you're creating a huge hassle for the software authors, as well as opening a

Pandora's box re: drivers for it.

73, Mike NF4L

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

Nr4c

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by The Smiths

Let me get this straight, and you have NO audio cable from the K3 to
the computer? And, you're getting audio on the computer through the
RS-232 cable? So what's the purpose of the "Line IN"/"Line OUT"
jacks? Is the computer mic 'live' and picking up from the speaker(s)?

confused, ....bc nr4c

Quoting The Smiths <[hidden email]>:

>
> I'm sorry, perhaps I'm mistaken, but I've already hooked up my K3
> using a serial to USB converter cable, and then turned on
> Spectrogram and found that the audio IS already there. Do I have a
> voodoo K3, or is someone else mistaken that this feature already
> exists?
>
> T Smith
> SWL
>
>> Date: Thu, 18 Nov 2010 20:20:33 -0500
>> From: [hidden email]
>> To: [hidden email]; [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3: USB port
>>
>>
>> Moving from RS-232 to USB for commands (CAT) is trivial - replace
>> the DB9 with one of the FTDI devices that is a USB to RS-232
>> converter built into the DB9 socket. However, that does not get
>> you audio ...
>>
>> To do audio, you would need not only the USB converter but a hub
>> and USB Audio CODEC (e.g. PCM8902 or similar). Then Elecraft
>> would need to build controls for the USB CODEC (ADC/DAC) and do
>> all the other software support - further burdening the K3 CPU.
>>
>> After all that, all you've done is move the USB soundcard, USB
>> to serial converter and USB hub into the K3 and added a whole new
>> level so support burden - providing operating system specific
>> drivers for each version of Windows (along with the cost of
>> signing drivers with Microsoft), specific drivers for each version
>> of OS-X, and specific drivers for each unique version of LINUX.
>> By the way ... depending on the USB Audio chip set (ADC/DAC) and
>> USB hub, you might find yourself needing specific drivers for each
>> chip (Audio, hub, control) *and* EEPROM to customize, control and
>> serialize each of those chip!
>>
>> After all of that you have not provided any new capability for
>> the K3. Other than adding at least $100 per unit in hardware,
>> development, and ongoing support costs the only thing this exercise
>> will accomplish is to relieve a relatively small number of users
>> of the need to purchase a KUSB and allow them to keep their sound-
>> card free for iTUNES. For all the rest, you have increased the
>> cost of the K3, added an entirely new level of complexity to the
>> rig, and perhaps required that the user purchase new hardware to
>> use their rig with computer control.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> ... Joe, W4TV
>>
>> On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote:
>> > Hello group,
>> >
>> > I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had
>> > considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3,
>> > including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009:
>> >
>> > "The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB
>> > rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.
>> >
>> > The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still
>> > using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can
>> > use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O
>> > performance between the two methods. "
>> >
>> > Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has
>> heard anything
>> > more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for
>> > everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the
>> ability to carry
>> > all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient.
>> Right now,
>> > I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate
>> > stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup,
>> > but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to
>> > computer.
>> >
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Mike Reublin

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by K2QI

James, don't be sorry, my opinion is just that, my opinion.

I see absolutely no advantage to making the change.

73, Mike
On 11/18/2010 7:57 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote:

> Hi Mike,
>
> I'm not really asking for anything, other than whether or not the USB option was
> still in the works. I was just curious. The K3 works fine as is with its current
> KIO3 configuration. I didn't realize, as someone else had already pointed out to
> me off-list, that this topic is akin to beating a dead horse. I guess I must have
> missed those emails; sorry for bringing it up.
>
> 73,
> James K2QI
>
> On Thu, Nov 18, 2010 at 7:50 PM, Mike <[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
> I'm not sure how you envision moving the audio to USB.
>
> I think putting the USB port in the K3 would open a Pandora's box re: drivers.
>
> If you're asking to just move the serial to USB adapter into the rig, there is
> NO gain.
>
> If you're asking to do away with serial port comms entirely and go to USB only,
> you're creating a huge hassle for the software authors, as well as opening a
> Pandora's box re: drivers for it.
>
> 73, Mike NF4L
>
> On 11/18/2010 7:31 PM, James Sarte (K2QI) wrote:
> > Hello group,
> >
> > I know Wayne has mentioned several times in the past that they had
> > considered all possibilities when it comes to PC interfaces for the K3,
> > including USB. In fact, he says the following on 16 June, 2009:
> >
> > "The KIO3's digital I/O module could be replaced with one that has USB
> > rather than RS232 -- or better yet, both. We planned for this.
> >
> > The reason we went with RS232 initially is that many hams are still
> > using PCs that have only RS232 ports. Those who prefer to use USB can
> > use an inexpensive USB-to-RS232 adapter. There is no difference in I/O
> > performance between the two methods. "
> >
> > Just wanted to revisit this topic and find out if anyone has heard anything
> > more regarding a possible USB interface for the K3. I know it's not for
> > everyone, but for myself and perhaps others out there, the ability to carry
> > all data, including audio on a single cable would be convenient. Right now,
> > I'm using a Keyspan USB to RS232 adapter for data, along with two separate
> > stereo cables for audio. I don't have any real complaints with that setup,
> > but could be problematic when transferring the rig around from computer to
> > computer.
> >
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email] <mailto:[hidden email]>
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>
>
>
> --
> 73 de James K2QI
> President UNARC/4U1UN
>

Rick Prather-2

Re: K3: USB port

In reply to this post by K2QI

Sorry James but sometimes sitting in pile up that is out of control brings out the worst in us!

This is one of those threads that seems to surface every few weeks to all the same responses but your question about the status of current thinking on the subject is different I guess.

Personally, I'm happy with the present set up, but will be happier when I find a quieter adaptor. May break down and get the KUSB since that darn P3 has shown me that the IOGear one I use it pretty darn noisy!

Rick
K6LE

On 11/19/2010, at 4:59 , [hidden email] wrote:

> Wow. It's a good thing I didn't throw in the subject of knobs too, or otherwise I might have found my apartment surrounded by angry guys carrying pitch forks and torches, hi hi.
>
> Thanks for your gracious input. :)
>
> Vy 73,
> James K2QI
> Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

K2QI

Re: K3: USB port

Hi Rick,

I would suggest the Keyspan USB to Serial adapter over the KUSB. With the
KUSB, I always had problems with it when using programs like HRD or DM780.
I believe that was due to the drivers being used. OTOH, the Keyspan unit
works very well and does not seem to add any additional noise into the
equation. It also seems to be well shielded from stray RF.

73,
James K2QI

On Fri, Nov 19, 2010 at 11:26 AM, Rick Prather <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Sorry James but sometimes sitting in pile up that is out of control brings
> out the worst in us!
>
> This is one of those threads that seems to surface every few weeks to all
> the same responses but your question about the status of current thinking on
> the subject is different I guess.
>
> Personally, I'm happy with the present set up, but will be happier when I
> find a quieter adaptor. May break down and get the KUSB since that darn P3
> has shown me that the IOGear one I use it pretty darn noisy!
>
> Rick
> K6LE
>
>

--... ...-- -.. . .--- .- -- . ...

123