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K3 USB request

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Gary Smith-2

K3 USB request

Gary Smith-2

Re: K3 USB request

I don't know why my text was stripped but
here it is again...
-------------------
I would love for there to be a USB
connection for the K3 without the serial
to USB adapter.

Although I far prefer my Bose Q-15
headphones, I've bought a pair of Logitech
wireless headphones for use with my
computer and they come with a boom mike.
Yes, the Bose are infinitely better but
the mic is this Logitech is excellent and
they are stereo. They work great with the
computer and being wireless, they would be
ideal with the K3. There's a tiny dongle
transmitter/receiver the headphones pair
with which plugs into a usb port but alas,
the only port for the K3 is the antiquated
RS-232 port and mine is dedicated to
connecting the K3 to my computer for my
logging program via the serial>USB
adapter.

Any chance for some USB ports on the K3?

Gary
KA1J

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Fred Townsend

Re: K3 USB request

Gary I can't speak for Elecraft but I really doubt you will ever see a USB
port of the kind you want. Take a look at the third letter in USB. It stands
for 'Bus'. In the PC there is a pretty good sized chip called the 'South
Bridge' chip that de-multiplexes the bus. Sure you can do the job with other
chips but it's not a trivial task. Then think of the software. Every USB
device needs a driver so you would need to load a driver for your earphones.
There is no hard disk so where are you going to store your drivers? In the
end it becomes a shovel with rope handle.
73
Fred, AE6QL

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gary Smith
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 4:15 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 USB request

I don't know why my text was stripped but here it is again...
-------------------
I would love for there to be a USB
connection for the K3 without the serial to USB adapter.

Although I far prefer my Bose Q-15
headphones, I've bought a pair of Logitech wireless headphones for use with
my computer and they come with a boom mike.
Yes, the Bose are infinitely better but the mic is this Logitech is
excellent and they are stereo. They work great with the computer and being
wireless, they would be ideal with the K3. There's a tiny dongle
transmitter/receiver the headphones pair with which plugs into a usb port
but alas, the only port for the K3 is the antiquated
RS-232 port and mine is dedicated to
connecting the K3 to my computer for my logging program via the serial>USB
adapter.

Any chance for some USB ports on the K3?

Gary
KA1J

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David Pratt

Re: K3 USB request

In reply to this post by Gary Smith-2

In a recent message, Gary Smith <[hidden email]> writes
>I would love for there to be a USB
>connection for the K3 without the serial
>to USB adapter.

It would put the cost up, Gary. I understand that USB is like Dolby in
that it is a proprietary protocol for which equipment designers would
have to pay a premium. This expense would consequently be passed to the
customer. RS232 or its 9-pin equivalent is so much simpler.

73 de David G4DMP

--
+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +
| David M Pratt, Kippax, Leeds. |
| Website: http://www.g4dmp.co.uk |
+ - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - +

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Gary Smith-2

Re: K3 USB request

In reply to this post by Fred Townsend

Fred,

Ah. What you say makes sense. I'm familiar
with the Northbridge & Southbridge chips
but I don't know the limitations of
hardware & software with the K3.

It really is nice to have no wire to the
headphones and I use this setup whenever I
use google to make free phone calls
(Better acoustics on both end than my cell
phone does) If I get up to do something
10' away I just leave the headphones on &
forget about them.

The bose QC-15 are much more comfortable
and the audio with the noise cancelling
is impressive, I can't even hear the
blower in my amp with them on. Still, they
are tethered.

Maybe I need to put some thought into how
to run the K3 audio/mic functions through
the computer and use that to hear the K3
with these wireless mics.

73,

Gary
KA1J

> Gary I can't speak for Elecraft but I really doubt you will ever see a
> USB port of the kind you want. Take a look at the third letter in USB.
> It stands for 'Bus'. In the PC there is a pretty good sized chip
> called the 'South Bridge' chip that de-multiplexes the bus. Sure you
> can do the job with other chips but it's not a trivial task. Then
> think of the software. Every USB device needs a driver so you would
> need to load a driver for your earphones. There is no hard disk so
> where are you going to store your drivers? In the end it becomes a
> shovel with rope handle. 73 Fred, AE6QL
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gary Smith
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 4:15 PM To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 USB request
>
> I don't know why my text was stripped but here it is again...
> -------------------
> I would love for there to be a USB
> connection for the K3 without the serial to USB adapter.
>
> Although I far prefer my Bose Q-15
> headphones, I've bought a pair of Logitech wireless headphones for use
> with my computer and they come with a boom mike. Yes, the Bose are
> infinitely better but the mic is this Logitech is excellent and they
> are stereo. They work great with the computer and being wireless, they
> would be ideal with the K3. There's a tiny dongle transmitter/receiver
> the headphones pair with which plugs into a usb port but alas, the
> only port for the K3 is the antiquated RS-232 port and mine is
> dedicated to connecting the K3 to my computer for my logging program
> via the serial>USB adapter.
>
> Any chance for some USB ports on the K3?
>
> Gary
> KA1J
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

Fred Townsend

Re: K3 USB request

Gary there are inline BlueTooth products that will work with your QC15. They
are a bit pricie and hard to find. I know Sony made one. Be wary of the
cell phone versions. There are not stereo. More comments below:

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gary Smith
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 9:51 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 USB request

Fred,

Ah. What you say makes sense. I'm familiar with the Northbridge &
Southbridge chips but I don't know the limitations of hardware & software
with the K3.

The North and South chips are intended for another purpose and totally
impractical for use with the K3. I think TI and Atmel make single chip USB
solutions that might work. The question then becomes how do you communicate
with the USB chip and my guess would be I2C (yet another bus).

I had high hopes that Yaesu was on track with their motorcycle radios but
they turned out a miserable product. Someday somebody will figure it out.
73
Fred, AE6QL

It really is nice to have no wire to the headphones and I use this setup
whenever I use google to make free phone calls (Better acoustics on both end
than my cell phone does) If I get up to do something 10' away I just leave
the headphones on & forget about them.

The bose QC-15 are much more comfortable and the audio with the noise
cancelling is impressive, I can't even hear the blower in my amp with them
on. Still, they are tethered.

Maybe I need to put some thought into how to run the K3 audio/mic functions
through the computer and use that to hear the K3 with these wireless mics.

73,

Gary
KA1J

> Gary I can't speak for Elecraft but I really doubt you will ever see a
> USB port of the kind you want. Take a look at the third letter in USB.
> It stands for 'Bus'. In the PC there is a pretty good sized chip
> called the 'South Bridge' chip that de-multiplexes the bus. Sure you
> can do the job with other chips but it's not a trivial task. Then
> think of the software. Every USB device needs a driver so you would
> need to load a driver for your earphones. There is no hard disk so
> where are you going to store your drivers? In the end it becomes a
> shovel with rope handle. 73 Fred, AE6QL
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email]
> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Gary Smith
> Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2012 4:15 PM To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 USB request
>
> I don't know why my text was stripped but here it is again...
> -------------------
> I would love for there to be a USB
> connection for the K3 without the serial to USB adapter.
>
> Although I far prefer my Bose Q-15
> headphones, I've bought a pair of Logitech wireless headphones for use
> with my computer and they come with a boom mike. Yes, the Bose are
> infinitely better but the mic is this Logitech is excellent and they
> are stereo. They work great with the computer and being wireless, they
> would be ideal with the K3. There's a tiny dongle transmitter/receiver
> the headphones pair with which plugs into a usb port but alas, the
> only port for the K3 is the antiquated RS-232 port and mine is
> dedicated to connecting the K3 to my computer for my logging program
> via the serial>USB adapter.
>
> Any chance for some USB ports on the K3?
>
> Gary
> KA1J
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>

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alsopb

Re: K3 USB request

In reply to this post by David Pratt

On 11/9/2012 04:55, David G4DMP wrote:

> In a recent message, Gary Smith <[hidden email]> writes
>> I would love for there to be a USB
>> connection for the K3 without the serial
>> to USB adapter.
>
> It would put the cost up, Gary. I understand that USB is like Dolby in
> that it is a proprietary protocol for which equipment designers would
> have to pay a premium. This expense would consequently be passed to the
> customer. RS232 or its 9-pin equivalent is so much simpler.
>
> 73 de David G4DMP
>

And should the desired "USB" be USB2 OR USB3? USB3 is supposed to be
backwards compatible. However, USB port specs are apparently not frozen
in design.

Also note that the USB3 specs seem to imply that USB3 should be able to
supply 1.5A (sometimes 6). Thus the K3 would most likely be required to
supply this additional power. More cost and complexity. Plus the DC
supply to the K3 would most likely have to be upgraded to provide this
extra current.

73 de Brian/K3KO

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5384 - Release Date: 11/09/12

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Fred Townsend

Re: K3 USB request

Please see comments below:

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email]
[mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Brian Alsop
Sent: Friday, November 09, 2012 4:26 AM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 USB request

On 11/9/2012 04:55, David G4DMP wrote:
>> In a recent message, Gary Smith <[hidden email]>> writes
>>>> I would love for there to be a USB
>>>> connection for the K3 without the serial to USB adapter.
>>
>> It would put the cost up, Gary. I understand that USB is like Dolby
>> in that it is a proprietary protocol for which equipment designers
>> would have to pay a premium.

There is nothing proprietary about USB at all. It is a standard, not a
protocol.

>>This expense would consequently be passed to the
>> customer. RS232 or its 9-pin equivalent is so much simpler.
>>
>> 73 de David G4DMP
>>
>And should the desired "USB" be USB2 OR USB3? USB3 is supposed to be
backwards compatible. However, USB port specs >are apparently not frozen in
design.

I don't know what other meaning you give the word 'specification'. You
either met the spec or you can not use the USB logo. Granted there some
parts of the spec, like backward compatibility, that are 'musts' and other
parts, like sourcing power, which are 'mays'.
I think you miss some very import points. USB is a very general purpose
computer bus with hundreds of thousands of applications. Why would you want
to get burdened by compatibility issues when what you really want is an
interface?
MORE IMPORTANTLY, if you replace RS232 with either an interface or USB, you
break the code of every ham radio program out there that uses an RS232
interface. That is not a trivial matter. It's still a shovel with a rope
handle.
73
Fred, AE6QL

>Also note that the USB3 specs seem to imply that USB3 should be able to
supply 1.5A (sometimes 6). Thus the K3 would >most likely be required to
supply this additional power. More cost and complexity. Plus the DC supply
to the K3 would most >likely have to be upgraded to provide this extra
current.

73 de Brian/K3KO

-----
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2012.0.2221 / Virus Database: 2441/5384 - Release Date: 11/09/12

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Robert Cunnings

Re: K3 USB request

Actually, in many cases a USB port is used in conjunction with a
USB<->Serial converter chip, like the FTDI series, precisely to allow a
product to be accessed over USB without changing the serial protocol
originally used over the RS232 interface. The USB interface is exposed
to software on the PC via a virtual COM port, by means of the driver
supplied by the USB<->Serial port converter chip vendor. Existing
programs continue to work just fine.

I've done this for years at work, adding a USB port to our products
using an FTDI converter chip which is demanded by those customers using
laptops without an RS232 interface (and who do not want to mess around
with outboard USB<->Serial converter cables). In many cases the product
retains the original RS232 interface with DB9 connector as well, so the
device can be accessed one way or the other. The serial control
protocol is unchanged. Even firmware updates are done over the USB
interface, just as they were done over the RS232 interface. It's no
big deal to do this if all you need to do is sustain an existing serial
control protocol and PC software, rather than implement digital audio
transport over the USB interface.

Bob NW8L

On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 01:31:11 -0800
"Fred Townsend" <[hidden email]> wrote:

> MORE IMPORTANTLY, if you replace RS232 with either an interface or
> USB, you break the code of every ham radio program out there that
> uses an RS232 interface. That is not a trivial matter. It's still a
> shovel with a rope handle.
> 73
> Fred, AE6QL
>
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Bill Frantz

Re: K3 USB request

In reply to this post by Fred Townsend

And here I thought that these programs were used by some hams
with a USB <--> RS232 converter. :-)

I really don't see any problem for a USB interface designer
including a hub on the radio side of the USB interface and a USB
<--> RS232 chip on one port of the hub. Other ports of the hub
would provide other USB interfaces which would appear separately
on the computer. One could be a sound card interface, one a
headphone interface etc. We still don't have USB in full
generality to the radio, but we could have a useful number of
devices for ham radio with one wire to the computer.

Fred, K6DGW: I hear you comments about calling it "wireless".

Cheers - Bill, AE6JV (only 201 unread Elecraft list emails)

On 11/10/12 at 1:31 AM, [hidden email] (Fred Townsend) wrote:

>MORE IMPORTANTLY, if you replace RS232 with either an interface or USB, you
>break the code of every ham radio program out there that uses an RS232
>interface. That is not a trivial matter. It's still a shovel with a rope
>handle.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
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