K3 Which headphones for stereo cw work? Summation
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OK here are the recommendations I received
I'm missing some of the data, but here is what I have found: K3 front jack is 32 ohm output rear speaker is 4-8 ohm rear phone is 16 ohm HD280 Pro ~$60-80 64 ohm /10' coiled cord /3.5 jack w/.25 adapter/ 500mw/ 7.8oz/ SPL 102db Yamaha CM500 w/Mic ~$50 120 ohm /9' straight cord /3.5 jack -.25 adapter/ 10.6oz w/o cord /Sensitivity: 96 dB/mW Extreme Isolation EX-29 ~$99 32 ohm / 9' straight cable/ 3.5 jack -1/4 adapter/ 500mw/ 11.5oz/ 114dB @ 1KHZ 1mW Sennheiser CX 300 II ~$35 (ear buds) 16 ohm / 3.9' straight cable/ 3.5 jack angled/ ?mw/8 oz/ SPL 112dB Sony MDR V6 ~$70 63 ohm / 10' coiled cable/ 3.5 jack/ ?mw/ Sensitivity: 106dB/mW Sennheiser MX 880 ~$69 (ear buds) 16 ohm / 3.9' straight cable/ 3.5 jack angled/ /3.2 oz/ SPL 120db I left the Bose QC-2 headphones off the list as $350+ is just to pricey for me -- GB & 73 K5OAI Sam Morgan ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3 Which headphones for stereo cw work? Summation
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A gentleman who used to sell for Bose told me that Mr. Bose knew about
advertising, but knew little about engineering. He did manage to put a lot of excessive bass into a small box, but that seems to be his major accomplishment - unfortunately, many people are impressed by that. I prefer the clean sound of good speakers (and headphones). Like the Heil brand, I regard Bose as extremely overpriced and over-hyped. 73, Don W3FPR Sam Morgan wrote: > > I left the Bose QC-2 headphones off the list as $350+ is just to pricey for me > > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by k5oai
> K3 front jack is 32 ohm output > rear speaker is 4-8 ohm > rear phone is 16 ohm Front and rear headphone jacks are identical in electrical performance. They can handle headphones of a wide range of impedances. 73, Lyle KK7P ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3 Which headphones for stereo cw work? Summation
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
I worked for a company that made the Bose Pro audio equipment.
Essentially their pro audio rack mount stuff was fairly decent (actually it was only our product rebranded). But we always felt that BOSE stood for "Bring Other Sound Equipment" or we'd say "No highs no lows it must be Bose". It was known in the industry that one of the longer and harder worked on tasks as Bose was selecting the perfect demo music that would be the only thing you were allowed to hear on each Bose product in the store. ~Brett (N7MG) (Previously KC7OTG) On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 22:53 -0400, Don Wilhelm wrote: > A gentleman who used to sell for Bose told me that Mr. Bose knew about > advertising, but knew little about engineering. He did manage to put a > lot of excessive bass into a small box, but that seems to be his major > accomplishment - unfortunately, many people are impressed by that. I > prefer the clean sound of good speakers (and headphones). > Like the Heil brand, I regard Bose as extremely overpriced and over-hyped. > > 73, > Don W3FPR > > Sam Morgan wrote: > > > > I left the Bose QC-2 headphones off the list as $350+ is just to pricey for me > > > > > ______________________________________________________________ > Elecraft mailing list > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm > Post: mailto:[hidden email] > > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3 Which headphones for stereo cw work? Summation
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In reply to this post by k5oai
I just did a bit of researching and considered many of these models and
ended up getting the Sony MDR-V6 based on reviews but a big consideration for me was the THD plot on when compared to other products. I also ordered the Beyerdynamic velour replacement pads for their headphones that also fits onto the MDR-V6 to aid in comfort over longer periods of time. ~Brett On Sat, 2010-05-29 at 21:11 -0500, Sam Morgan wrote: > OK here are the recommendations I received > I'm missing some of the data, but here is what I have found: > > K3 front jack is 32 ohm output > rear speaker is 4-8 ohm > rear phone is 16 ohm > > HD280 Pro ~$60-80 > 64 ohm /10' coiled cord /3.5 jack w/.25 adapter/ 500mw/ 7.8oz/ SPL 102db > > Yamaha CM500 w/Mic ~$50 > 120 ohm /9' straight cord /3.5 jack -.25 adapter/ 10.6oz w/o cord /Sensitivity: > 96 dB/mW > > Extreme Isolation EX-29 ~$99 > 32 ohm / 9' straight cable/ 3.5 jack -1/4 adapter/ 500mw/ 11.5oz/ 114dB @ 1KHZ 1mW > > Sennheiser CX 300 II ~$35 (ear buds) > 16 ohm / 3.9' straight cable/ 3.5 jack angled/ ?mw/8 oz/ SPL 112dB > > Sony MDR V6 ~$70 > 63 ohm / 10' coiled cable/ 3.5 jack/ ?mw/ Sensitivity: 106dB/mW > > Sennheiser MX 880 ~$69 (ear buds) > 16 ohm / 3.9' straight cable/ 3.5 jack angled/ /3.2 oz/ SPL 120db > > I left the Bose QC-2 headphones off the list as $350+ is just to pricey for me > ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
Dr. Amar Bose taught the introductory circuit theory classes (6.01 and 6.02) at MIT for many years. He was unquestionably the best true teacher I've ever had in my life. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amar_Bose 73, Bill |
Re: K3 Which headphones for stereo cw work? Summation
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Another interesting link
http://www.siliconeer.com/past_issues/2005/january2005.html#Anchor--MA-32328 David G3UNA >> > > Dr. Amar Bose taught the introductory circuit theory classes (6.01 and > 6.02) > at MIT for many years. He was unquestionably the best true teacher I've > ever had in my life. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amar_Bose > > 73, Bill > > Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3 Which headphones for stereo cw work? Summation
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In reply to this post by Bill W4ZV
On Sun, 30 May 2010 03:37:25 -0700 (PDT), Bill W4ZV wrote:
>Dr. Amar Bose taught the introductory circuit theory classes (6.01 and 6.02) >at MIT for many years. He was unquestionably the best true teacher I've >ever had in my life. So I've heard. But Bose as a company is not at all well respected in the world of pro audio. Their stuff is well built and well designed from a manufacturing and user interface point of view, but not from an acoustic point of view. Audio pros say "Better Sound Through Marketing" in much the same way that hams say "mighty fine junk." I've heard that some east coast contesters are very happy with a model of their headphones. 73, Jim Brown K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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During his early years as a professor, Bose bought a high-end stereo speaker system in 1956 and was reportedly underwhelmed by the performance of his purchase. This would eventually pave the way for his extensive speaker technology research, concentrating on key weaknesses in the high-end speaker systems available during Bose's time, and focusing on psychoacoustics, which would become a hallmark of the company's audio products. Applying similar psychoacoustic principles to headphone technology, Bose created the "Tri-Port Earcup Drivers." Today, the Bose Corporation is a multifaceted entity with more than 12,000 employees, worldwide, that produces products for home, car, and professional audio, as well as conducts basic research in acoustics, automotive systems, and other fields. Awards * Elected Fellow of IEEE, 1972 - for contributions to loudspeaker design, two-state amplifier-modulators, and nonlinear systems. * 271st in the 2007 Forbes 400 List[2] (~$2 Billion net worth) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amar_Bose#Awards |
Re: K3 Which headphones for stereo cw work? Summation
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I believe the key word here is "psychoacoustics".
A lot of non-audiophiles seem to like a lot of bass - even to the point of distortion. Listen to the bass-rumbling of many autos on the road - it drives me nuts at traffic lights, but for some reason or another, "earth-shattering bass" that shakes the earth will sell products. Dr. Bose capitalized on that in the consumer market. I prefer sound that is as close as possible to the original live concert source, but then I prefer acoustical instrument sounds and classical music too. The music scene has shifted to hard rock and rap stuff, which I somehow cannot equate with pleasing musical sounds - but each to his own, I guess I am just a "has-been" in my choice of music - yes, kettle drums produce a lot of bass, but it is clean notes, not earth-shattering distortion (the "fuzz-boxes" used with electrtic guitars is another pet peeve of mine - just not pleasant to my ears), and I do have a sub-woofer on my home music system if that counts for anything, but it is not turned up with the controls "full right". 73, Don W3FPR Bill W4ZV wrote: > During his early years as a professor, Bose bought a high-end stereo speaker > system in 1956 and was reportedly underwhelmed by the performance of his > purchase. This would eventually pave the way for his extensive speaker > technology research, concentrating on key weaknesses in the high-end speaker > systems available during Bose's time, and focusing on psychoacoustics, which > would become a hallmark of the company's audio products. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3 Which headphones for stereo cw work? Summation
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This is the reason I purchased Dynaco A50's back in the 60's. They were
very close to flat. Music sounded as close to live as I could afford. Bill K9YEQ -----Original Message----- From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Don Wilhelm Sent: Monday, May 31, 2010 8:51 PM To: Bill W4ZV Cc: [hidden email] Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 Which headphones for stereo cw work? Summation I believe the key word here is "psychoacoustics". A lot of non-audiophiles seem to like a lot of bass - even to the point of distortion. Listen to the bass-rumbling of many autos on the road - it drives me nuts at traffic lights, but for some reason or another, "earth-shattering bass" that shakes the earth will sell products. Dr. Bose capitalized on that in the consumer market. I prefer sound that is as close as possible to the original live concert source, but then I prefer acoustical instrument sounds and classical music too. The music scene has shifted to hard rock and rap stuff, which I somehow cannot equate with pleasing musical sounds - but each to his own, I guess I am just a "has-been" in my choice of music - yes, kettle drums produce a lot of bass, but it is clean notes, not earth-shattering distortion (the "fuzz-boxes" used with electrtic guitars is another pet peeve of mine - just not pleasant to my ears), and I do have a sub-woofer on my home music system if that counts for anything, but it is not turned up with the controls "full right". 73, Don W3FPR Bill W4ZV wrote: > During his early years as a professor, Bose bought a high-end stereo speaker > system in 1956 and was reportedly underwhelmed by the performance of his > purchase. This would eventually pave the way for his extensive speaker > technology research, concentrating on key weaknesses in the high-end speaker > systems available during Bose's time, and focusing on psychoacoustics, which > would become a hallmark of the company's audio products. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
On Mon, May 31, 2010 at 9:50 PM, Don Wilhelm <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I believe the key word here is "psychoacoustics". Psychoacoustics is the study of subjective human perception of sounds. It has nothing to do with creating artificial "ear shattering bass" in boom boxes. "In the late 1960s, as a part of ongoing acoustic research, Bose engineers carried out experiments on the way people actually perceive sound. In researching a concert hall, they learned that the great majority of sound is reflected off walls, floor and ceiling before reaching your ears. This research led to the development of Direct/Reflecting® speaker technology." http://www.bose.com/controller?event=VIEW_STATIC_PAGE_EVENT&url=/popup/tech_details/learning_center/popup_3space_acoustics.jsp > A lot of non-audiophiles seem to like a lot of bass - even to the point of > distortion. > Listen to the bass-rumbling of many autos on the road - it drives me nuts at > traffic lights, but for some reason or another, "earth-shattering bass" that > shakes the earth will sell products. Dr. Bose capitalized on that in the > consumer market. I prefer sound that is as close as possible to the > original live concert source, but then I prefer acoustical instrument sounds > and classical music too. The music scene has shifted to hard rock and rap > stuff, which I somehow cannot equate with pleasing musical sounds - but each > to his own, I guess I am just a "has-been" in my choice of music - yes, > kettle drums produce a lot of bass, but it is clean notes, not > earth-shattering distortion (the "fuzz-boxes" used with electrtic guitars is > another pet peeve of mine - just not pleasant to my ears), and I do have a > sub-woofer on my home music system if that counts for anything, but it is > not turned up with the controls "full right". The following sounds like a very non-engineering non-audiophile approach (i.e. crank the bass "full right"): "In 1983 engineering graduate student Ken Jacob enrolled in Bose’s acoustics class during his final semester at MIT. Jacob planned to design sound for Broadway productions. “Within 20 minutes of the start of that first lecture,” Jacob said, “all my plans had changed. Professor Bose connected everything I had learned and put all the pieces together. I said, I’ve got to work for this guy.’” Jacob was true to his word. He became director and chief engineer of Bose’s Live Music Technology Group. In 1994 he unveiled the Bose Auditioner program, a software tool that allows acoustic engineers to hear precisely what a proposed audio system will sound like from any seat in a large venue even before building construction begins. On the day that Jacob unveiled the project, Bose admitted that he hadn’t expected it to succeed. “He let me work on that with a team of five engineers for 10 years—most of the time thinking that it was impossible,” Jacob says, shaking his head in disbelief. Bose says it’s the principle of allowing bright minds to search for answers that was more important to him. “I thought the computational power wouldn’t be there,” he says. “But the problem was tough enough and the team was talented enough that I thought their research would yield something good.” The funny thing was that Bose was proved wrong: The program works today. The program has been used to design public address systems at the Staples Center in Los Angeles, the Sistine Chapel, and even Masjid al-Haram, the grand mosque at Mecca, a challenging environment, full of reverberating marble, with a history of failed audio solutions." http://www.siliconeer.com/past_issues/2005/january2005.html#Anchor--MA-32328 Too bad Dr. Bose didn't understand engineering or acoustics as well as all the experts here (but then he might not be worth $2 Billion today or employ 12,000 people). Apologies to Eric...last post on this OT subject. ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
Re: K3 Which headphones for stereo cw work? Summation
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In reply to this post by Don Wilhelm-4
On Mon, 31 May 2010 21:50:34 -0400, Don Wilhelm wrote:
>I believe the key word here is "psychoacoustics". Well, we're a bit off topic here, but psychoacoustics is a very mature science that studies how humans hear and perceive sound. I'm a member of the Acoustical Society of America, and that discipline is well represented among our membership. Indeed, if you look up Bell Labs original stereo patent (from 1936) youl'll see references to important psychoacoustic work on human perception by some folks at Harvard. Bose's best known contribution to home listening is the reflecting loudspeaker that bounces sound off the wall behind it, with the intent of providing some of the difusion inherent in good concert halls. There are better ways to achieve a high quality home listening experience, but Bose is NOT about heavy bass. The various signal processing games that Lyle is playing are based on some well known fundamental psychoacoustic principles. 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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In reply to this post by Bill W4ZV
On Mon, 31 May 2010 22:38:30 -0400, Bill Tippett wrote:
>In 1994 he unveiled the Bose >Auditioner program, a software tool that allows acoustic engineers to >hear precisely what a proposed audio system will sound like from any >seat in a large venue even before building construction begins. >On the day that Jacob unveiled the project, Bose admitted that he >hadnt expected it to succeed. He let me work on that with a team of >five engineers for 10 yearsmost of the time thinking that it was >impossible, Jacob says, shaking his head in disbelief. I've known Ken for many years. The Bose Auditioner was used as a marketing tool, and for most of its life, could only be used with Bose loudspeakers. As a marketing tool, it has been successful. As a design tool for system engineers, it has not. Two of my colleagues in Berlin, Dr. Wolfgang Ahnert and Stefan Feistal, developed acoustic modeling software for sound systems in rooms, beginning around 1985. It was well deveoped and in its second version by 1990, and by 1994 it had auralization capabliity. That software is called EASE. It has always been open for all loudspeaker manufacturers to provide the carefully measured data required. Currently at version 4.3 with V 5 in development, EASE is pretty much the standard for system design and acoustic modeling worldwide. I've been a Beta tester since 1990. http://afmg.eu/index.php/company.html 73, Jim K9YC ______________________________________________________________ Elecraft mailing list Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm Post: mailto:[hidden email] This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html |
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