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[K3] Why do they still use 1/4 inch phone jacks?

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Barry

[K3] Why do they still use 1/4 inch phone jacks?

I presume, historically, it was so there would be enough spacing to
prevent arcing for the 300VDC on the keying line, etc. Nowadays, most
headphones come with 1/8 inch plus, paddles/keyers are low voltage, etc.

--

Barry Kutner, W2UP Lakewood, CO

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drewko

Re: [K3] Why do they still use 1/4 inch phone jacks?

I like the 1/4 jacks. They are more durable generally. It's no fun
having to tear the whole radio apart to replace a worn out
board-mounted jack. (Been there with the K2...)

You can get low-profile 1/4-to-1/8 adapters. I leave them plugged into
my K3's key and headphone jacks so there is zero wear.

73,
Drew
AF2Z

On Fri, 17 Sep 2010 12:49:04 -0600, Barry Kutner, W2UP wrote:

> I presume, historically, it was so there would be enough spacing to
>prevent arcing for the 300VDC on the keying line, etc. Nowadays, most
>headphones come with 1/8 inch plus, paddles/keyers are low voltage, etc.

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Steve Wedge

Re: [K3] Why do they still use 1/4 inch phone jacks?

In reply to this post by Barry

One might just as well ask why we use 4'8" as our railroad gauge, or 120V as
our AC mains power. Olde standards persist and should be celebrated for the
historical artifacts that they are - provided it's not holding up or harming
anything in so doing.

It's amusing to contemplate, at the least.

/philosophy

Steve Wedge, W1ES/4

To be is to do - Socrates
To do is to be - Plato
Do be do be do. - Sinatra

All my computers have my signature with various pearls of wisdom appended
thereto.

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Barry" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Friday, September 17, 2010 2:49 PM
To: <[hidden email]>
Subject: [Elecraft] [K3] Why do they still use 1/4 inch phone jacks?

> I presume, historically, it was so there would be enough spacing to
> prevent arcing for the 300VDC on the keying line, etc. Nowadays, most
> headphones come with 1/8 inch plus, paddles/keyers are low voltage, etc.
>
> --
>
> Barry Kutner, W2UP Lakewood, CO
>
> ______________________________________________________________
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k6dgw

Re: [K3] Why do they still use 1/4 inch phone jacks?

In reply to this post by Barry

On 9/17/2010 11:49 AM, Barry wrote:
> I presume, historically, it was so there would be enough spacing to
> prevent arcing for the 300VDC on the keying line, etc. Nowadays, most
> headphones come with 1/8 inch plus, paddles/keyers are low voltage, etc.

I've wondered that myself. The phone and key jacks on my K3 and FT-847
are all 1/4" as was the key jack on my S-Line and on KWM-2A's. Mic jack
on my S-Line was a 2-ckt telephone jack [smaller than 1/4"] which I
swapped out for a 1/4". In fact, my K2 and KX1 are the only rigs I can
name that don't/didn't have 1/4" key jacks. I guess some things just
stick around whether there's a reason or not. Why didn't RCA phono
plugs show up on headphones, they became ubiquitous for other audio
lines? Still are to look at the back of our TV and DVR.

Re Key Voltage: When I first started at the coastal marine station
while in high school, the keying lines were 120VDC on metallic pairs to
the TX site. You quickly learned to put the shoe from your bug right
side up into the straight key on the desk and push your bug around the
desk with the eraser on the end of your pencil. They switched to 48VDC
which you could still feel but a much smaller jolt. Cathode keyed rigs
were also good for a moderate knock if you grabbed the key behind the knob.

73,

Fred K6DGW
- Northern California Contest Club
- CU in the 2010 Cal QSO Party 2-3 Oct 2010
- www.cqp.org
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Jack Smith-6

Re: [K3] Why do they still use 1/4 inch phone jacks?

In reply to this post by Steve Wedge

With respect to AC mains power standard, Tom Edison set the standard voltage (DC) at a nice even number 100 volts, plus 10% allowance for IR drop, yielding 110V, or so I recall reading.

Over the years, the 'norm' has crept up to 115V, 117.5V and 120V. It's typically 122 to 123V at my QTH.

Jack K8ZOA

On 9/17/2010 5:42 PM, Steve Wedge wrote:
> or 120V as
> our AC mains power.
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Carl Clawson

Re: [K3] Why do they still use 1/4 inch phone jacks?

In reply to this post by drewko

Absolutely. The real question ought to be: Why do we put up with the crummy
little ones?

Almost every radio I've had, including the K3, has had trouble with
connections at the 3.5 mm jacks. I have come to think that the choice of
plug matters. Some just seem to work better than others. In the cases where
I went to the trouble to diagnose it, the fault was a failure of the sleeve
to make a good connection to the the jack. I suspect inferior plating and/or
corrosion on the sleeve. Buffing the sleeve with a bit of paper seems to
have helped some of them.

It's been suggested here that the problem is that there are two types of
this plug, 1/8" and 3.5 mm, the latter being slightly larger. I measured all
of mine with a dial caliper and they are all 3.5 mm. So that doesn't explain
why some of mine give me trouble and some don't. I checked a few data sheets
and all the drawings show 3.5 mm so maybe the 1/8" standard is a thing of
the past.

I'd suggest buying a good brand of plug and using it to replace the crummy
ones. I'll be trying that to see if it makes a difference. Here's hoping
that Switchcraft hasn't been bought out by some gang of quality-wrecking
sharks. Maybe I'll lay in a lifetime supply while I'm at it...

73 and thanks for listening,
Carl WS7L

> I like the 1/4 jacks. They are more durable generally.

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ab2tc

Re: [K3] Why do they still use 1/4 inch phone jacks?

Hi,

100% agreement with you here. The other real question ought to be: Why do reputable manufacturers like Heil put the crummy connectors on their products? I have a late model Proset now connected to the rear of the K3 and the connectors both have a wobbly and awful feel to them. I do not currently have any connection problem, but frankly I don't dare touch them. My cables from Radio Shack connecting my LP-Pan to the sound "card" I have to reset every so often when suddenly spurs occur in the middle of the display and/or the image rejection drops to 0.

AB2TC - KNut

Carl Clawson wrote

Absolutely. The real question ought to be: Why do we put up with the crummy
little ones?

<snip>

Ken Kopp-3

[K3] Why do they still use 1/4 inch phone jacks?

In reply to this post by Carl Clawson

Hi Carl,

Please keep the list informed. I suspect that most
of us deal with the annoying "touchy jack/plug
problem.

73! Ken Kopp - K0PP
[hidden email]

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ussv dharma

K3 "beginners config setting"?

In reply to this post by ab2tc

Aloha:

Perhaps, since the K3 IS so versitle, there should be a setting for "beginners". Using this setting sets everything to a reasonable setting for us that dont understand all the K3 settings. I dont mean a reset, but one for beginners.

susan

If you don't change direction you WILL arrive exactly where you're headed!! Susan Meckley, Skipper W7KFI-mm AFA9SM USSV DHARMA

--- On Sat, 9/18/10, ab2tc <[hidden email]> wrote:

> From: ab2tc <[hidden email]>
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] [K3] Why do they still use 1/4 inch phone jacks?
> To: [hidden email]
> Date: Saturday, September 18, 2010, 8:31 AM
>
> Hi,
>
> 100% agreement with you here. The other real question ought
> to be: Why do
> reputable manufacturers like Heil put the crummy connectors
> on their
> products? I have a late model Proset now connected to the
> rear of the K3 and
> the connectors both have a wobbly and awful feel to them. I
> do not currently
> have any connection problem, but frankly I don't dare touch
> them. My cables
> from Radio Shack connecting my LP-Pan to the sound "card" I
> have to reset
> every so often when suddenly spurs occur in the middle of
> the display and/or
> the image rejection drops to 0.
>
> AB2TC - KNut
>
>
> Carl Clawson wrote:
> >
> > Absolutely. The real question ought to be: Why do we
> put up with the
> > crummy
> > little ones?
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> >
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/K3-Why-do-they-still-use-1-4-inch-phone-jacks-tp5543920p5546276.html
> Sent from the [K3] mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
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>

Hank Garretson

Re: K3 "beginners config setting"?

On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 2:18 PM, ussv dharma <[hidden email]> wrote:

Perhaps, since the K3 IS so versitle, there should be a setting for
> "beginners". Using this setting sets everything to a reasonable setting for
> us that dont understand all the K3 settings. I dont mean a reset, but one
> for beginners.
>

The Elecraft K3 default settings!?!?

73,

Hank, W6SX

Mammoth Lakes, California

Elevation 8083 feet in John Muir's Range of Light
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Lou Kolb

Re: K3 "beginners config setting"?

I'm a fairly casual operator, more CW then SSB and Except for changing some
TX-EQ, I've stuck with the default settings. Aside from some occasional odd
AGC behavior, I've been quite happy with them. Lou WA3MIX
----- Original Message -----
From: "Hank Garretson" <[hidden email]>
To: "ussv dharma" <[hidden email]>; <[hidden email]>
Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2010 5:21 PM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 "beginners config setting"?

> On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 2:18 PM, ussv dharma <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Perhaps, since the K3 IS so versitle, there should be a setting for
>> "beginners". Using this setting sets everything to a reasonable setting
>> for
>> us that dont understand all the K3 settings. I dont mean a reset, but
>> one
>> for beginners.
>>
>
> The Elecraft K3 default settings!?!?
>
>
> 73,
>
> Hank, W6SX
>
> Mammoth Lakes, California
>
> Elevation 8083 feet in John Muir's Range of Light
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

k5oai

Re: K3 "beginners config setting"?

In reply to this post by Hank Garretson

OK then how about a tutorial
explaining what each setting does
if you went this way or that way from the defaults
and how that changes related to the different modes?

something like an expanded version of:

"AGC PLS = NOR.
I used this on, Seems to help with fast static crashes... Kind of."

or this

"AGC DCY = NOR.
I use this in NOR Most of the time. However, when there's lots of stations in a
pile up I tend to turn it on to Soft with the AGC set to SLOW. It helps
separate the stations from one another."

above were partial quotes from one of the list members.......

it would be great to have all this info posted here, and then perhaps someone(s)
could get it up on a web site, that wouldn't disappear shortly afterwards.

--
GB & 73
K5OAI
Sam Morgan

On 9/18/2010 4:21 PM, Hank Garretson wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 2:18 PM, ussv dharma<[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Perhaps, since the K3 IS so versitle, there should be a setting for
>> "beginners". Using this setting sets everything to a reasonable setting for
>> us that dont understand all the K3 settings. I dont mean a reset, but one
>> for beginners.
>>
>
> The Elecraft K3 default settings!?!?
>
>
> 73,
>
> Hank, W6SX
>
> Mammoth Lakes, California
>
> Elevation 8083 feet in John Muir's Range of Light
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

Gary Gregory

Re: K3 "beginners config setting"?

In reply to this post by Hank Garretson

Due to varying types of operating requirements it would be extremely
difficult to come up with a "One Operating Setup" that would be any better
than the supplied "Default" settings.

I have tried many of the suggestions offered on this list from time to time
and I would be very surprised if my now current settings were not a mixture
of some of these suggestions.

Without any intention to sounding condescending I firmly believe that new
owners of any of the current crop of amateur radios should really follow the
manufacturers suggestion to read the manual prior to operating. Certainly we
get excited and "need" a "quick fix" by firing the rig straight out of the
box. But still there is no way to replace "fiddling"" with the new toy. The
TX side is fairly straight forward and easy to enough to get right followed
by small adjustments to get it "just right for the individual".

The RX is certainly more complex along with connecting and setting up
auxiliary equipment and operating priorities and again there is no
substitute for perusing the manual as you work through the setup.

Some quick start guides may be advantageous to those who wish to speed up
the learning curve but time spent in front of the rig listening on the bands
is always going to get you to the point where you will find your own unique
settings that work for you.

I have found that starting with your most common mode of operation that you
are most comfortable with will get you on the air quickly with little or no
difficulty. Then simply work through other modes at a leisurely pace.

Just my nickel's worth, keep the change..:-)

73's

Gary

On Sun, Sep 19, 2010 at 7:21 AM, Hank Garretson <[hidden email]> wrote:

> On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 2:18 PM, ussv dharma <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Perhaps, since the K3 IS so versitle, there should be a setting for
> > "beginners". Using this setting sets everything to a reasonable setting
> for
> > us that dont understand all the K3 settings. I dont mean a reset, but
> one
> > for beginners.
> >
>
> The Elecraft K3 default settings!?!?
>
>
> 73,
>
> Hank, W6SX
>
> Mammoth Lakes, California
>
> Elevation 8083 feet in John Muir's Range of Light
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>

--
Gary
VK4FD - Motorhome Mobile
http://www.qsl.net/vk4fd/
K3 #679
For everything else there's Mastercard!!!
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ab2tc

Re: K3 "beginners config setting"?

In reply to this post by Hank Garretson

Hi,

Of course the factory default settings should be the starting point for beginners or anybody else for that matter, and for the most part they are reasonable. The only settings I found I had to change the first day I operated my new radio were the AGC settings. The default slope of 012 caused a strong signal to blast my ears and the default threshold of 05 makes the radio way to lively ("noisy and hissy to quote a few people") on bands 20m and lower. I set them both to their maximums and the radio is still too lively on the lower bands for my liking. I wish for at least 6dB higher AGC threshold to be available. Currently the only way to make the radio quieter is using the RF gain control.

AB2TC - Knut

Hank Garretson wrote

On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 2:18 PM, ussv dharma <ussvdharma@yahoo.com> wrote:

Perhaps, since the K3 IS so versitle, there should be a setting for
> "beginners". Using this setting sets everything to a reasonable setting for
> us that dont understand all the K3 settings. I dont mean a reset, but one
> for beginners.
>

The Elecraft K3 default settings!?!?

73,

Hank, W6SX
<snip>

w8fn

Re: [K3] Why do they still use 1/4 inch phone jacks?

In reply to this post by Carl Clawson

Mouser carries the Neutrik "Rean" line of connectors. They're maybe
not quite as good as the Switchcraft parts, but they're are of
significantly higher quality than most of the junk out there -- and
they're a lot cheaper than Switchcraft. I've used the Neutrik
connectors exclusively for all the many cables I've built in the last
couple of years. The 3.5mm stereo plug part number is NYS231G,
currently selling for $1.47 at Mouser (www.mouser.com). The Mouser
site does show they have very limited stock of these right now. I
think they are also available from Parts Express online as well.

73...
Randy, W8FN

>I'd suggest buying a good brand of plug and using it to replace the crummy
>ones. I'll be trying that to see if it makes a difference. Here's hoping
>that Switchcraft hasn't been bought out by some gang of quality-wrecking
>sharks. Maybe I'll lay in a lifetime supply while I'm at it...

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The Smiths

Re: K3 "beginners config setting"?

In reply to this post by k5oai

Check your email my friend, check your email.. LOL

> Date: Sat, 18 Sep 2010 16:33:41 -0500
> From: [hidden email]
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 "beginners config setting"?
>
> OK then how about a tutorial
> explaining what each setting does
> if you went this way or that way from the defaults
> and how that changes related to the different modes?
>
> something like an expanded version of:
>
> "AGC PLS = NOR.
> I used this on, Seems to help with fast static crashes... Kind of."
>
> or this
>
> "AGC DCY = NOR.
> I use this in NOR Most of the time. However, when there's lots of stations in a
> pile up I tend to turn it on to Soft with the AGC set to SLOW. It helps
> separate the stations from one another."
>
> above were partial quotes from one of the list members.......
>
> it would be great to have all this info posted here, and then perhaps someone(s)
> could get it up on a web site, that wouldn't disappear shortly afterwards.
>
> --
> GB & 73
> K5OAI
> Sam Morgan
>
> On 9/18/2010 4:21 PM, Hank Garretson wrote:
> > On Sat, Sep 18, 2010 at 2:18 PM, ussv dharma<[hidden email]> wrote:
> >
> > Perhaps, since the K3 IS so versitle, there should be a setting for
> >> "beginners". Using this setting sets everything to a reasonable setting for
> >> us that dont understand all the K3 settings. I dont mean a reset, but one
> >> for beginners.
> >>
> >
> > The Elecraft K3 default settings!?!?
> >
> >
> > 73,
> >
> > Hank, W6SX
> >
> > Mammoth Lakes, California
> >
> > Elevation 8083 feet in John Muir's Range of Light
> > ______________________________________________________________
> > Elecraft mailing list
> > Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> > Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> > Post: mailto:[hidden email]
> >
> > This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> > Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> >
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
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> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
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