Elecraft

K3 after turning on doesn't receive or transmit

Classic

List

Threaded

14 messages Options

KD8ZYD - Fred

K3 after turning on doesn't receive or transmit

Hi all,

I'm a very new user to the K3. I just recently update the Synthesizer
board and added the KXV3B and the K144XV options to my K3. I made all the
updates in Config to make this work. Everything works fine.

The problem I am having is when the radio sits over night and and turn it
on, it doesn't receive or transmit at all. The only way I can get it to
work is to start the K3 Utility and download and reinstall all firmware.
Once that is done, everything is working fine until I turn it off at night
and turn it on the next day.

I noticed there is a battery on the main board. Does it sound like it is
dead and needs to be replaced?

I have not had a chance to check this.

Thanks for your help! Please let me know if you have any questions.

--
Thanks,

Fred
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

ab2tc

Re: K3 after turning on doesn't receive or transmit

Hi Fred,

I see no-one has responded to you so I will chime in with what I know.

A few more details about what you actually see and hear when you press the
power button would be helpful. What you should see and hear is an almost
immediate relay click and most (all?) LEDs turn on. Fractions of of a second
later the display backlight comes on, then fractions of s second later the
display comes alive and you should hear audio. This machine boots up fast,
thank you, engineers at Elecraft.

If on the other hand, you see "CPU LD" (or something similar) in the
display, the software has decided that something is wrong with the
application software and decides to stay in the bootloader (modern firmware
always wakes up up in the bootloader and decides where to go from there).
That would explain why your only recovery is to reload the firmware.

I am starting to guess now and it's not always a good idea. One explanation
is that there is actually something wrong with the application firmware
(corrupted to some degree). But this seems improbable since you can
consistently recover by reloading it. I assume you are turning the radio
off by using the power button. Another possible explanation is that the CPU
starts executing before the hardware has come up completely and thus
erroneously concludes that the application firmware is corrupted.

I realize that none of these ramblings is a direct help to you to recover
from your situation but I am hoping it may trigger others to have an AHA
experience.

BTW, the battery is not essential to the K3 operation. It just powers the
RTC which is not very good anyway. I have plenty of better ways to tell the
time of day.

AB2TC - Knut

Fred-2 wrote

> Hi all,
>
> I'm a very new user to the K3. I just recently update the Synthesizer
> board and added the KXV3B and the K144XV options to my K3. I made all the
> updates in Config to make this work. Everything works fine.
>
> The problem I am having is when the radio sits over night and and turn it
> on, it doesn't receive or transmit at all. The only way I can get it to
> work is to start the K3 Utility and download and reinstall all firmware.
> Once that is done, everything is working fine until I turn it off at night
> and turn it on the next day.
>
> I noticed there is a battery on the main board. Does it sound like it is
> dead and needs to be replaced?
>
> I have not had a chance to check this.
>
> Thanks for your help! Please let me know if you have any questions.
>
> --
> Thanks,
>
> Fred
> <snip>

--
Sent from: http://elecraft.365791.n2.nabble.com/
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

ab2tc

Re: K3 after turning on doesn't receive or transmit

In reply to this post by KD8ZYD - Fred

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K3 after turning on doesn't receive or transmit

I would also comment with Knut, AB2TC, that one must always turn the
radio on and off with the power switch. This allows the internal
workings to store the data.   If you use a "master station switch" thus
just dump the power supply then the radio may not store the data as
required.   I recall the term "power down imminent" or PDI.

Years ago we had "the big switch" which was used to shut the station
down. Today with all of the computerized gadgets, power down in
sequence is more and more of a must do.

In another brand of radio to which I am familiar, there is a CPU timing
circuit that assures the CPU is up and running before loading the
operating code.   If this circuit is running too fast, it may cause a
partial load and related error. This circuit is basically a simple RC
network, and with age the C value decreases thus making the timing
circuit run too fast.   i.e. not enough delay.

73

Bob, K4TAX

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

NK7Z

Re: K3 after turning on doesn't receive or transmit

Respectfully, is that really true? The K3 needs to be shutdown via the
Power switch due to some sort of shutdown procedure, (or internal
timings issue), within the radio?

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net

On 10/13/2017 11:52 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> I would also comment with Knut, AB2TC, that one must always turn the
> radio on and off with the power switch. This allows the internal
> workings to store the data.   If you use a "master station switch" thus
> just dump the power supply then the radio may not store the data as
> required.   I recall the term "power down imminent" or PDI.
>
> Years ago we had "the big switch" which was used to shut the station
> down. Today with all of the computerized gadgets, power down in
> sequence is more and more of a must do.
>
> In another brand of radio to which I am familiar, there is a CPU timing
> circuit that assures the CPU is up and running before loading the
> operating code.   If this circuit is running too fast, it may cause a
> partial load and related error. This circuit is basically a simple RC
> network, and with age the C value decreases thus making the timing
> circuit run too fast.   i.e. not enough delay.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Bob McGraw - K4TAX

Re: K3 after turning on doesn't receive or transmit

From the Fred Cady manual, page 33, Chapter 3 "Elecraft recommends
that you DO NOT turn your K3s off by turning off the external power
supply. Using the POWER switch allows the K3s to store variables such
as the current VFO frequencies in EEPROM before shutting down. This
might not happen if you turn the power off at the power supply. You can
turn the power supply off after the K3s shuts down".

73

Bob, K4TAX

On 10/13/2017 3:22 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> Yes! Like most equipment these days, the K3 needs to do an orderly shutdown under control of its processor to turn off safely and reliably. Like your P.C. you can pull power unexpectedly and it will often recover okay when power is reapplied, but you can also get corrupted data that forces a firmware reload - perhaps even using the forced MCU load procedure in the Owner's manual - as well as discovering that it turns on in an unexpected state or that it has "forgotten" certain parameters you set when it was last used.
>
> 73, Ron AC7AC
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dave Cole (NK7Z)
> Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 1:00 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 after turning on doesn't receive or transmit
>
> Respectfully, is that really true? The K3 needs to be shutdown via the Power switch due to some sort of shutdown procedure, (or internal timings issue), within the radio?
>
> 73s and thanks,
> Dave
> NK7Z
> http://www.nk7z.net
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

NK7Z

Re: K3 after turning on doesn't receive or transmit

In reply to this post by NK7Z

Wow, thanks for the info!

I must have missed that in the manual... I use the power switch, but I
had no idea there was a power down sequence for the radio.

Is it an actual power down sequence, like in triggers shutdown code to
run, or just some timing that has to happen in the right order?

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net

On 10/13/2017 01:22 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

NK7Z

Re: K3 after turning on doesn't receive or transmit

In reply to this post by Bob McGraw - K4TAX

I had no clue that was happening! Thanks for the info!

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net

On 10/13/2017 01:31 PM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> From the Fred Cady manual, page 33, Chapter 3 "Elecraft recommends
> that you DO NOT turn your K3s off by turning off the external power
> supply. Using the POWER switch allows the K3s to store variables such
> as the current VFO frequencies in EEPROM before shutting down. This
> might not happen if you turn the power off at the power supply. You can
> turn the power supply off after the K3s shuts down".
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
> On 10/13/2017 3:22 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
>> Yes! Like most equipment these days, the K3 needs to do an orderly
>> shutdown under control of its processor to turn off safely and
>> reliably. Like your P.C. you can pull power unexpectedly and it will
>> often recover okay when power is reapplied, but you can also get
>> corrupted data that forces a firmware reload - perhaps even using the
>> forced MCU load procedure in the Owner's manual - as well as
>> discovering that it turns on in an unexpected state or that it has
>> "forgotten" certain parameters you set when it was last used.
>>
>> 73, Ron AC7AC
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [hidden email]
>> [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dave Cole (NK7Z)
>> Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 1:00 PM
>> To: [hidden email]
>> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 after turning on doesn't receive or transmit
>>
>> Respectfully, is that really true? The K3 needs to be shutdown via
>> the Power switch due to some sort of shutdown procedure, (or internal
>> timings issue), within the radio?
>>
>> 73s and thanks,
>> Dave
>> NK7Z
>> http://www.nk7z.net
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
>>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

markmusick

Re: K3 after turning on doesn't receive or transmit

In reply to this post by NK7Z

Yes Dave, it is true.
These days with most radios using some sort of microprocessor you should turn all brands off, not just Elecraft, using the power switch on the radio, not the switch on the power supply. This allows the processor inside the radio to save parameters etc. to memory and go through an orderly shutdown before it actually shuts power off to the radio. If you shut off the radio by turning it off using the power switch on the power supply the processor does not go through its orderly shutdown and you can scramble the processors brain. When you turn it on again you don't know what state it will power up in. If it powers up correctly, you were lucky.
Shut the radio off using its front panel switch first, then shut the power supply off.

73,
Mark, WB9CIF

-----Original Message-----
From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dave Cole (NK7Z)
Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 8:00 PM
To: [hidden email]
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 after turning on doesn't receive or transmit

Respectfully, is that really true? The K3 needs to be shutdown via the Power switch due to some sort of shutdown procedure, (or internal timings issue), within the radio?

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net

On 10/13/2017 11:52 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:

> I would also comment with Knut, AB2TC, that one must always turn the
> radio on and off with the power switch. This allows the internal
> workings to store the data. If you use a "master station switch"
> thus just dump the power supply then the radio may not store the data
> as required. I recall the term "power down imminent" or PDI.
>
> Years ago we had "the big switch" which was used to shut the station
> down. Today with all of the computerized gadgets, power down in
> sequence is more and more of a must do.
>
> In another brand of radio to which I am familiar, there is a CPU
> timing circuit that assures the CPU is up and running before loading
> the operating code. If this circuit is running too fast, it may
> cause a partial load and related error. This circuit is basically a
> simple RC network, and with age the C value decreases thus making the
> timing circuit run too fast. i.e. not enough delay.
>
> 73
>
> Bob, K4TAX
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
> [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

NK7Z

Re: K3 after turning on doesn't receive or transmit

I understand why, I was just not aware the K3 needed to be actually shut
down explicitly.

I tend to never pull power from anything running anyway, (too many years
doing PC, and dedicated hardware support in broadcast), but I was
totally unaware the K3 needed a shutdown sequence...

In fact my shack desk has a dedicated 12 V power setup, which lives on
the back of the desk, so I can't get to the switch without reaching
behind the desk...

What a surprise! I guess I need to re-read the manuals! I missed that
in both manuals!

73s and thanks,
Dave
NK7Z
http://www.nk7z.net

On 10/13/2017 01:35 PM, Mark E. Musick wrote:

> Yes Dave, it is true.
> These days with most radios using some sort of microprocessor you should turn all brands off, not just Elecraft, using the power switch on the radio, not the switch on the power supply. This allows the processor inside the radio to save parameters etc. to memory and go through an orderly shutdown before it actually shuts power off to the radio. If you shut off the radio by turning it off using the power switch on the power supply the processor does not go through its orderly shutdown and you can scramble the processors brain. When you turn it on again you don't know what state it will power up in. If it powers up correctly, you were lucky.
> Shut the radio off using its front panel switch first, then shut the power supply off.
>
> 73,
> Mark, WB9CIF
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [hidden email] [mailto:[hidden email]] On Behalf Of Dave Cole (NK7Z)
> Sent: Friday, October 13, 2017 8:00 PM
> To: [hidden email]
> Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 after turning on doesn't receive or transmit
>
> Respectfully, is that really true? The K3 needs to be shutdown via the Power switch due to some sort of shutdown procedure, (or internal timings issue), within the radio?
>
> 73s and thanks,
> Dave
> NK7Z
> http://www.nk7z.net
>
> On 10/13/2017 11:52 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>> I would also comment with Knut, AB2TC, that one must always turn the
>> radio on and off with the power switch. This allows the internal
>> workings to store the data. If you use a "master station switch"
>> thus just dump the power supply then the radio may not store the data
>> as required. I recall the term "power down imminent" or PDI.
>>
>> Years ago we had "the big switch" which was used to shut the station
>> down. Today with all of the computerized gadgets, power down in
>> sequence is more and more of a must do.
>>
>> In another brand of radio to which I am familiar, there is a CPU
>> timing circuit that assures the CPU is up and running before loading
>> the operating code. If this circuit is running too fast, it may
>> cause a partial load and related error. This circuit is basically a
>> simple RC network, and with age the C value decreases thus making the
>> timing circuit run too fast. i.e. not enough delay.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net Please help support this email
>> list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to
>> [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html Message delivered to [hidden email]
>

Don Wilhelm

Re: K3 after turning on doesn't receive or transmit

Dave,

If you have *not* been "pulling the plug" to shut down the K3, then it
may be that it needs a trip back to Watsonville to rezap the bootloader.

But OTOH if you have been turning the power supply off first and not
using the K3 power button first, try 'doing it properly' over the
weekend and contact [hidden email] Monday.

Removing the power from the K3 will not normally do any damage (but it
can). In most cases, the thing that happens is that it does not restore
the band/frequency/mode, etc. that you were last using - or if you made
menu setting changes, those will not be remembered.
Although it *can* scramble the bootloader, it seldom does - except if
you are unlucky.

Yes, it is similar to a PC in that regard.

73,
Don W3FPR

On 10/13/2017 4:42 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:
> I understand why, I was just not aware the K3 needed to be actually shut
> down explicitly.
>
> I tend to never pull power from anything running anyway, (too many years
> doing PC, and dedicated hardware support in broadcast), but I was
> totally unaware the K3 needed a shutdown sequence...
______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
Message delivered to [hidden email]

Clay Autery-2

Re: K3 after turning on doesn't receive or transmit

In reply to this post by NK7Z

Just like any other computer with volatile memory.... IF you don't tell
the computer you are shutting down, it doesn't know and therefore
doesn't have time to save the information to NON-volatile memory.

______________________
Clay Autery, KY5G
MONTAC Enterprises
(318) 518-1389

On 10/13/2017 3:00 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:

> Respectfully, is that really true? The K3 needs to be shutdown via
> the Power switch due to some sort of shutdown procedure, (or internal
> timings issue), within the radio?
>
> 73s and thanks,
> Dave
> NK7Z
> http://www.nk7z.net
>
> On 10/13/2017 11:52 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>> I would also comment with Knut, AB2TC, that one must always turn the
>> radio on and off with the power switch. This allows the internal
>> workings to store the data. If you use a "master station switch" thus
>> just dump the power supply then the radio may not store the data as
>> required. I recall the term "power down imminent" or PDI.
>>
>> Years ago we had "the big switch" which was used to shut the station
>> down. Today with all of the computerized gadgets, power down in
>> sequence is more and more of a must do.
>>
>> In another brand of radio to which I am familiar, there is a CPU
>> timing circuit that assures the CPU is up and running before loading
>> the operating code. If this circuit is running too fast, it may
>> cause a partial load and related error. This circuit is basically a
>> simple RC network, and with age the C value decreases thus making the
>> timing circuit run too fast. i.e. not enough delay.
>>
>> 73
>>
>> Bob, K4TAX
>

Vic Rosenthal

Re: K3 after turning on doesn't receive or transmit

I suspect that “bad things” can happen if the power drops DURING the process of saving. Then you might get partial or invalid information stored. This could be why most of the time it is harmless.

Vic 4X6GP

> On 14 Oct 2017, at 10:12, Clay Autery <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Just like any other computer with volatile memory.... IF you don't tell the computer you are shutting down, it doesn't know and therefore doesn't have time to save the information to NON-volatile memory.
>
> ______________________
> Clay Autery, KY5G
> MONTAC Enterprises
> (318) 518-1389
>
>> On 10/13/2017 3:00 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) wrote:
>> Respectfully, is that really true? The K3 needs to be shutdown via the Power switch due to some sort of shutdown procedure, (or internal timings issue), within the radio?
>>
>> 73s and thanks,
>> Dave
>> NK7Z
>> http://www.nk7z.net
>>
>>> On 10/13/2017 11:52 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>>> I would also comment with Knut, AB2TC, that one must always turn the radio on and off with the power switch. This allows the internal workings to store the data. If you use a "master station switch" thus just dump the power supply then the radio may not store the data as required. I recall the term "power down imminent" or PDI.
>>>
>>> Years ago we had "the big switch" which was used to shut the station down. Today with all of the computerized gadgets, power down in sequence is more and more of a must do.
>>>
>>> In another brand of radio to which I am familiar, there is a CPU timing circuit that assures the CPU is up and running before loading the operating code. If this circuit is running too fast, it may cause a partial load and related error. This circuit is basically a simple RC network, and with age the C value decreases thus making the timing circuit run too fast. i.e. not enough delay.
>>>
>>> 73
>>>
>>> Bob, K4TAX
>>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]

Nr4c

Re: K3 after turning on doesn't receive or transmit

In reply to this post by NK7Z

Yes! It's a "computer".

Sent from my iPhone
...nr4c. bill

> On Oct 13, 2017, at 4:00 PM, Dave Cole (NK7Z) <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> Respectfully, is that really true? The K3 needs to be shutdown via the Power switch due to some sort of shutdown procedure, (or internal timings issue), within the radio?
>
> 73s and thanks,
> Dave
> NK7Z
> http://www.nk7z.net
>
>> On 10/13/2017 11:52 AM, Bob McGraw K4TAX wrote:
>> I would also comment with Knut, AB2TC, that one must always turn the radio on and off with the power switch. This allows the internal workings to store the data. If you use a "master station switch" thus just dump the power supply then the radio may not store the data as required. I recall the term "power down imminent" or PDI.
>> Years ago we had "the big switch" which was used to shut the station down. Today with all of the computerized gadgets, power down in sequence is more and more of a must do.
>> In another brand of radio to which I am familiar, there is a CPU timing circuit that assures the CPU is up and running before loading the operating code. If this circuit is running too fast, it may cause a partial load and related error. This circuit is basically a simple RC network, and with age the C value decreases thus making the timing circuit run too fast. i.e. not enough delay.
>> 73
>> Bob, K4TAX
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>> Message delivered to [hidden email]
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
> Message delivered to [hidden email]