K3: am I missing something re: DMM

[DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL]

Hi all, especially those who have assembled a K3 already (Eric, Wayne,
and the Elecraft FTers invited to answer as well):

Okay...so here I am in the K3 queue, getting ready.  I have picked up
an ESD mat and wrist strap, some new Phillips (those I have were
pretty beat up), and now I'm bothering several of the usuals on the
reflector for advice (again) about a DMM.

Having this week off, I was catching up with some old
acquaintances....including the guy who taught me the morse code back
in 1965 (we were class-mates).

I asked him about "specs" for a DMM for the K3 and he asked, "well,
what do you need to measure on the K3?"  Pretty logical question ...
like a DUH moment for me.

So I just finished scanning the assembly manual (and the KPA manual).
I found just 6 times where a "measurement" is called for using a
multimeter (all found in the assembly manual, none in the KPA manual).
 And all six are just resistance checks (2 on page 32, 1 on page 41, 3
on page 42).  So tell me why I should spend more than $10 for a DMM to
do this?  Will my 30 year old RS VOM "do the job?"

Lots of thoughtful folks have been advising me on this and I am sure
that they have insight that I do not, suggesting more "upscale"
(barely) models costing $40 to $70.  My "morse tutor" from 42 years
ago (who is an EE + Masters, etc.) before I got back to him about
"what" is being measured, recommended a Fluke and even gave me a model
number (costing $136).  Is any of this necessary?  I have been advised
about the usefulness of the "bar graph," but would this be helpful for
the K3?

I also scanned the manuals for the word MEASURE (and hence also
MEASUREMENT) and found no additional hits.

So....being a classic ham and O.F cheapskate, what do I really need to
get the job done?  If we are only talking resistance measurements (not
adjustments), what is really needed?

OR....is there something hidden in the manuals that my SCAN missed?

Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

de Doug KR2Q
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Dave Martin-2]

I have four DMMs and four or five VOMs.  If you need digital
readability or high input resistance a DMM is good.  I won't bother
with one to make resistance checks and the like when my K3 comes.  I'd
have to go look for one of my DMMs.  A couple of the VOMs are within
reach.  Of course I may be biased, I was the one guy who was
troubleshooting a circuit with a VOM and a screwdriver while my
counterparts were using an oscilloscope, VTVM (DMM), and several other
fancy boxes.  I had usually found the trouble with my unit before they
got all their stuff set up and calibrated.

Dave  W5DHM

On Nov 21, 2007 2:04 PM, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL <[hidden email]> wrote:

> Hi all, especially those who have assembled a K3 already (Eric, Wayne,
> and the Elecraft FTers invited to answer as well):
>
> Okay...so here I am in the K3 queue, getting ready.  I have picked up
> an ESD mat and wrist strap, some new Phillips (those I have were
> pretty beat up), and now I'm bothering several of the usuals on the
> reflector for advice (again) about a DMM.
>
> Having this week off, I was catching up with some old
> acquaintances....including the guy who taught me the morse code back
> in 1965 (we were class-mates).
>
> I asked him about "specs" for a DMM for the K3 and he asked, "well,
> what do you need to measure on the K3?"  Pretty logical question ...
> like a DUH moment for me.
>
> So I just finished scanning the assembly manual (and the KPA manual).
> I found just 6 times where a "measurement" is called for using a
> multimeter (all found in the assembly manual, none in the KPA manual).
>  And all six are just resistance checks (2 on page 32, 1 on page 41, 3
> on page 42).  So tell me why I should spend more than $10 for a DMM to
> do this?  Will my 30 year old RS VOM "do the job?"
>
> Lots of thoughtful folks have been advising me on this and I am sure
> that they have insight that I do not, suggesting more "upscale"
> (barely) models costing $40 to $70.  My "morse tutor" from 42 years
> ago (who is an EE + Masters, etc.) before I got back to him about
> "what" is being measured, recommended a Fluke and even gave me a model
> number (costing $136).  Is any of this necessary?  I have been advised
> about the usefulness of the "bar graph," but would this be helpful for
> the K3?
>
> I also scanned the manuals for the word MEASURE (and hence also
> MEASUREMENT) and found no additional hits.
>
> So....being a classic ham and O.F cheapskate, what do I really need to
> get the job done?  If we are only talking resistance measurements (not
> adjustments), what is really needed?
>
> OR....is there something hidden in the manuals that my SCAN missed?
>
> Thanks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> de Doug KR2Q
> _______________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Post to: [hidden email]
> You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
> Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
>  http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
> Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com
>

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[AJSOENKE]

In a message dated 11/21/2007 11:05:45 A.M.  Pacific Standard Time,
[hidden email] writes:
Hi all, especially those who  have assembled a K3 already (Eric, Wayne,
and the Elecraft FTers invited to  answer as well):

Okay...so here I am in the K3 queue, getting  ready.  I have picked up
an ESD mat and wrist strap, some new Phillips  (those I have were
pretty beat up), and now I'm bothering several of the  usuals on the
reflector for advice (again) about a DMM.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
 
Well Doug, if everything goes well, you won't really need a DMM. You can  use
the VOM to confirm that your wriststrap is working OK (500K Ohm min) and you  
shouldn't need a meter unless you run into a problem. I can't recall if you
have  built a K2 previously, but they use a RF probe in some of the alignment
on a K2.  The RF probe will convert RF to a DC voltage so you can trace RF to
some degree.  The VOM may not be the best choice for the RF Probe, because a
lot of  measurements of that type are in the mV range.
 
FWIW - I was just reading the ads in the morning news and it looks like  
Sears, among many other stores, are having the usual after Thanksgiving Sales. A  
couple items caught my attention. Sears says that on Friday between 5am and
noon  they are selling a variety of things at half regular price. After noon
they'll  go up about 20% or so. One that looked good to me was a DMM that will be
on sale  at $9.99. Even at $20 it's a bargain. Also saw a shop vac portable 2
gal  unit like I use in my classroom, that'll be $14.99, also a great deal. I
use it  in class to vacuum the dust out of donated computers - good and
strong!  Also, they are selling Roomba vacs, the kind that run the floor without
help.  They're Reg price $149 and going for $99.
 
Sorry I went a little off topic, but I would sure like to get inside one of  
those vacs and see what makes them tick. Great classroom project.
 
Maybe if you want to build the K3 and hold off on the DMM unless you need  
one. RS has them in the low$$ range as well.
 
73 Al WA6VNN



**************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
products.
(http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Julian, G4ILO]

On Nov 21, 2007 7:04 PM, DOUGLAS ZWIEBEL <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
> So....being a classic ham and O.F cheapskate, what do I really need to
> get the job done?  If we are only talking resistance measurements (not
> adjustments), what is really needed?

Greetings from a fellow cheapskate. Unless I have missed something
too, assembling a K3 does not require you to measure anything to an
accuracy of a hundredth of a volt. You merely need to verify that
things are in the ball park.

I bought a 5 GBP ($10 to you) DVM from the local hardware store when I
built my K2 several years ago, since all I had was a Russian-made
analog VOM about 25 years old. All the measurements on the K2 checked
out right where they were supposed to.

I prefer to spend money on things that are going to be used. My advice
would be, get the cheapie.
--
Julian, G4ILO K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
Zerobeat Ham Forums: www.zerobeat.net/smf
_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[Ed Muns, W0YK]

> So I just finished scanning the assembly manual (and the KPA manual).
> I found just 6 times where a "measurement" is called for
> using a multimeter (all found in the assembly manual, none in
> the KPA manual).
>  And all six are just resistance checks (2 on page 32, 1 on
> page 41, 3 on page 42).  So tell me why I should spend more
> than $10 for a DMM to do this?  Will my 30 year old RS VOM
> "do the job?"

If all you want a DMM for is to complete those six steps then even $10 may
be too much to spend.  (dry humor)  Certainly, your "30 year old RS VOM"
will suffice.  Beyond getting the K3 assembled, I imagine the advice you're
getting relates to selection of a very handy tool to have available in
general.  Everyone should have an adequate one and your current VOM may
still be fine, if not as convenient and fancy as the newer digital models.

73,
Ed - W0YK

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft   

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[N5GE]

On Wed, 21 Nov 2007 14:16:50 -0500, you wrote:

>I have four DMMs and four or five VOMs.  If you need digital
>readability or high input resistance a DMM is good.  I won't bother
>with one to make resistance checks and the like when my K3 comes.  I'd
>have to go look for one of my DMMs.  A couple of the VOMs are within
>reach.  Of course I may be biased, I was the one guy who was
>troubleshooting a circuit with a VOM and a screwdriver while my
>counterparts were using an oscilloscope, VTVM (DMM), and several other
>fancy boxes.  I had usually found the trouble with my unit before they
>got all their stuff set up and calibrated.
>
>Dave  W5DHM
>

[snip]

One thing DMMs are no good for is adjusting for a peak.  You really should use
an analog meter to do that, unless the counters are fast enough to show instant
changes in voltage etc.

That's my opinion, I could be wrong.
Tom, N5GE - SWOT 3537

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."

                                             --Benjamin Franklin 1775
http://www.n5ge.com
http://www.eQSL.cc/Member.cfm?N5GE

_______________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Post to: [hidden email]
You must be a subscriber to post to the list.
Subscriber Info (Addr. Change, sub, unsub etc.):
 http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft

Help: http://mailman.qth.net/subscribers.htm
Elecraft web page: http://www.elecraft.com

[AC7AC]

CONTENTS DELETED

The author has deleted this message.