K3 and Datamodes

[Thom LaCosta]

So, the FAQ says

The K3 has the features of most high-end "sound card interfaces" built in.
Transformer-coupled stereo line out is included. This enables you to have the
main receiver and the subreceiver feed into your computer for various data
modes.  Transformer-coupled line input is provided, for various digital modes or
other external audio sources for transmit.

The RS232 serial interface supports RTS and DTR inputs. These can be configured
by use of a set up menu so either signal can be PTT, KEY or both. This meets the
needs of most data mode and logging programs.  We used RS232 to support users of
still-popular DOS mode logging and other utility programs, as well as computers
with legacy ports. Elecraft also sells a USB-to-RS232 cable that has been tested
with the K3 to allow users of more modern computers complete access to the
interface.

So that means I can simply use the transformer coupled lines to talk to the
computer that is using Mixw?

If that's the case, one wouldn't need a rigexpert if you had the mysterious USB
to serial whathamacallit/prayerwheel/gizmo?

Thom,EIEIO
Email, Internet, Electronic Information Officer

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[Greg - AB7R]

You would need to connect the K3's PC IN and OUT lines to
your computer soundcard and the RS-232 serial interface
for freq/mode info and setting up the PTT/CW.

I believe the only time you will need some other external
interface would be for true FSK.  The line for this is on
the ACC connector and should be keyed via an open
collector at less than 5 volts.

73
Greg
AB7R


On Tue, 5 Jun 2007 12:31:50 -0400 (EDT)
  Thom LaCosta <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So, the FAQ says
>
> The K3 has the features of most high-end "sound card
>interfaces" built in. Transformer-coupled stereo line out
>is included. This enables you to have the main receiver
>and the subreceiver feed into your computer for various
>data modes.  Transformer-coupled line input is provided,
>for various digital modes or other external audio sources
>for transmit.
>
> The RS232 serial interface supports RTS and DTR inputs.
>These can be configured by use of a set up menu so either
>signal can be PTT, KEY or both. This meets the needs of
>most data mode and logging programs.  We used RS232 to
>support users of still-popular DOS mode logging and other
>utility programs, as well as computers with legacy ports.
>Elecraft also sells a USB-to-RS232 cable that has been
>tested with the K3 to allow users of more modern
>computers complete access to the interface.
>
> So that means I can simply use the transformer coupled
>lines to talk to the computer that is using Mixw?
>
> If that's the case, one wouldn't need a rigexpert if you
>had the mysterious USB to serial
>whathamacallit/prayerwheel/gizmo?
>
> Thom,EIEIO
> Email, Internet, Electronic Information Officer
>
> www.baltimorehon.com/                    Home of the
>Baltimore Lexicon
> www.tlchost.net/hosting/                 Web Hosting as
>low as 3.49/month
> _______________________________________________
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[Simon (HB9DRV)]

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thom LaCosta" <[hidden email]>
>
> So that means I can simply use the transformer coupled lines to talk to
> the computer that is using Mixw?
>

Correct - after you solder up the cable to connect K3 => computer (I think
we're talking 3.5mm plus each end).

>
> If that's the case, one wouldn't need a rigexpert if you had the
> mysterious USB to serial whathamacallit/prayerwheel/gizmo?
>

You would only need the USB <=> serial converter if you want to be able to
control your radio's frequency from MixW. It does not form part of the audio
chain.

For the soundcard consider the SignaLink USB - an excellent device, but if
you have a decent soundcard in your PC then you're off and away!

Simon HB9DRV

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[Julian, G4ILO]

On 6/5/07, Thom LaCosta <[hidden email]> wrote:

> So that means I can simply use the transformer coupled lines to talk to the
> computer that is using Mixw?
>
> If that's the case, one wouldn't need a rigexpert if you had the mysterious USB
> to serial whathamacallit/prayerwheel/gizmo?

That's true, though once you've had one, you get used to having the
on-board sound card available for normal use. And a one-cable
connection between rig and radio reduces the spaghetti.

--
Julian, G4ILO
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
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[Julian, G4ILO]

On 6/5/07, FISCHER,GREG <[hidden email]> wrote:

> I believe the only time you will need some other external
> interface would be for true FSK.  The line for this is on
> the ACC connector and should be keyed via an open
> collector at less than 5 volts.

Why would one want to use true FSK if you are using for receive a
modern datamode program that is capable of AFSK anyway? With AFSK you
can net on a station by clicking on the waterfall. With FSK you have
to tune the radio to the exact frequency.

I know FSK keying was useful in the days before PCs had sound cards.
Actually, I can probably claim to have written the first PC RTTY AFSK
software, 20 years ago for MS-DOS. It's not something I normally shout
about, though. It used the PC's internal speaker to generate the
audio. Knowing more about computers than I did about radio, I didn't
realise that the audio was rich in harmonics and I was transmitting 3
or 4 copies of my signal. Well, they say the best lessons are the ones
you learn the hard way. :)
--
Julian, G4ILO
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
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[Vic K2VCO]

Julian G4ILO wrote:

> On 6/5/07, FISCHER,GREG <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I believe the only time you will need some other external
>> interface would be for true FSK.  The line for this is on
>> the ACC connector and should be keyed via an open
>> collector at less than 5 volts.
>
> Why would one want to use true FSK if you are using for receive a
> modern datamode program that is capable of AFSK anyway? With AFSK you
> can net on a station by clicking on the waterfall. With FSK you have
> to tune the radio to the exact frequency.

I must be missing something. I thought AFSK was an FSK signal produced
by feeding an audio tone which is switched between mark and space
frequencies to an SSB transmitter, resulting in a single RF carrier
whose frequency changes.

This signal, if the tones are clean sine waves and the transmitter has
good carrier and opposite sideband suppression, should be *identical* to
a 'true' FSK signal, which is produced by varying the frequency of a VFO
in the exciter.

If you mean that it's easier to tune an AFSK signal that has some
residual carrier, that's a poor signal.
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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[Bob Nielsen]

On Jun 6, 2007, at 7:52 AM, Vic K2VCO wrote:

> Julian G4ILO wrote:
>> On 6/5/07, FISCHER,GREG <[hidden email]> wrote:
>>> I believe the only time you will need some other external
>>> interface would be for true FSK.  The line for this is on
>>> the ACC connector and should be keyed via an open
>>> collector at less than 5 volts.
>> Why would one want to use true FSK if you are using for receive a
>> modern datamode program that is capable of AFSK anyway? With AFSK you
>> can net on a station by clicking on the waterfall. With FSK you have
>> to tune the radio to the exact frequency.
>
> I must be missing something. I thought AFSK was an FSK signal  
> produced by feeding an audio tone which is switched between mark  
> and space frequencies to an SSB transmitter, resulting in a single  
> RF carrier whose frequency changes.
>
> This signal, if the tones are clean sine waves and the transmitter  
> has good carrier and opposite sideband suppression, should be  
> *identical* to a 'true' FSK signal, which is produced by varying  
> the frequency of a VFO in the exciter.
>
> If you mean that it's easier to tune an AFSK signal that has some  
> residual carrier, that's a poor signal.

It isn't necessary to have any carrier leakage.  With the modern  
software demodulators using a waterfall display one can fine-tune the  
received signal by clicking on the waterfall display.  This adjusts  
the mark/space frequencies rather than tuning the VFO.  The  
transmitter mark/space audio frequencies are then matched to those  
used to receive. Having previously (40 years ago) used a fixed-filter  
TU with a "green eye" tuning indicator and a diode-switched shift  
capacitor on my transmit VFO, I was a bit skeptical until I tried it,  
but it works quite well.

73 - Bob, N7XY
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[Vic K2VCO]

Bob Nielsen wrote:
>
> On Jun 6, 2007, at 7:52 AM, Vic K2VCO wrote:

>> If you mean that it's easier to tune an AFSK signal that has some
>> residual carrier, that's a poor signal.
>
> It isn't necessary to have any carrier leakage.  With the modern
> software demodulators using a waterfall display one can fine-tune the
> received signal by clicking on the waterfall display.

The point that I'm (still) missing is how is a good AFSK signal is
supposed to be different from a 'true FSK' signal as G4ILO suggested.
--
73,
Vic, K2VCO
Fresno CA
http://www.qsl.net/k2vco
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[Julian, G4ILO]

On 6/6/07, Vic K2VCO <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The point that I'm (still) missing is how is a good AFSK signal is
> supposed to be different from a 'true FSK' signal as G4ILO suggested.

I didn't suggest it was different. I was suggesting that it was easier
to tune because, as Bob said in his reply, you can fine-tune by
clicking on the waterfall display which adjusts the mark-space tones,
instead of having to take your hands off the keyboard or mouse and
twiddle the receiver knob.

Greg makes a fair point about FSK potentially being cleaner, but I
would be interested to know if that is really the case. Certainly if
the audio was overdriving the transmitter you could radiate a dirty
signal, but if the system is properly set up would there be a
noticeable difference?

With FSK there might be the possibility of clicks or artefacts
occurring during the change between mark and space. A
software-produced AFSK could ensure that the transitions occur when
the wave passes through zero, which would result in a cleaner signal,
surely?

Whether that's true or not, I would have thought the usability
benefits of the AFSK method, especially in a contest situation, would
outweigh any theoretical advantages of FSK, which are probably
undetectable on the air, even if they are measurable.
--
Julian, G4ILO
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
K2 s/n: 392  K3 s/n: ???
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[Greg - AB7R]

Well, either way, the good news is that the K3 will be able to do both!  :)

Greg
AB7R



On Wed Jun 6 13:00 , "Julian G4ILO" sent:


On 6/6/07, Vic K2VCO <[hidden email]> wrote:

> The point that I'm (still) missing is how is a good AFSK signal is
> supposed to be different from a 'true FSK' signal as G4ILO suggested.

I didn't suggest it was different. I was suggesting that it was easier
to tune because, as Bob said in his reply, you can fine-tune by
clicking on the waterfall display which adjusts the mark-space tones,
instead of having to take your hands off the keyboard or mouse and
twiddle the receiver knob.

Greg makes a fair point about FSK potentially being cleaner, but I
would be interested to know if that is really the case. Certainly if
the audio was overdriving the transmitter you could radiate a dirty
signal, but if the system is properly set up would there be a
noticeable difference?

With FSK there might be the possibility of clicks or artefacts
occurring during the change between mark and space. A
software-produced AFSK could ensure that the transitions occur when
the wave passes through zero, which would result in a cleaner signal,
surely?

Whether that's true or not, I would have thought the usability
benefits of the AFSK method, especially in a contest situation, would
outweigh any theoretical advantages of FSK, which are probably
undetectable on the air, even if they are measurable.
--
Julian, G4ILO
G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ???
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[Bob Nielsen]

But will it drive a local loop?

(Just kidding, I dumped my model 15s several years ago)

:^)

Bob, N7XY

On Jun 6, 2007, at 10:32 AM, <[hidden email]>  
<[hidden email]> wrote:

>
>
> Well, either way, the good news is that the K3 will be able to do  
> both!  :)
>
> Greg
> AB7R
>
>
>
> On Wed Jun 6 13:00 , "Julian G4ILO" sent:
>
>
> On 6/6/07, Vic K2VCO <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> The point that I'm (still) missing is how is a good AFSK signal is
>> supposed to be different from a 'true FSK' signal as G4ILO suggested.
>
> I didn't suggest it was different. I was suggesting that it was easier
> to tune because, as Bob said in his reply, you can fine-tune by
> clicking on the waterfall display which adjusts the mark-space tones,
> instead of having to take your hands off the keyboard or mouse and
> twiddle the receiver knob.
>
> Greg makes a fair point about FSK potentially being cleaner, but I
> would be interested to know if that is really the case. Certainly if
> the audio was overdriving the transmitter you could radiate a dirty
> signal, but if the system is properly set up would there be a
> noticeable difference?
>
> With FSK there might be the possibility of clicks or artefacts
> occurring during the change between mark and space. A
> software-produced AFSK could ensure that the transitions occur when
> the wave passes through zero, which would result in a cleaner signal,
> surely?
>
> Whether that's true or not, I would have thought the usability
> benefits of the AFSK method, especially in a contest situation, would
> outweigh any theoretical advantages of FSK, which are probably
> undetectable on the air, even if they are measurable.
> --
> Julian, G4ILO
> G4ILO's Shack: www.g4ilo.com
> K2 s/n: 392 K3 s/n: ???
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>
>
>
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[Brian Lloyd-6]

On Jun 6, 2007, at 8:33 AM, Vic K2VCO wrote:

> Bob Nielsen wrote:
> The point that I'm (still) missing is how is a good AFSK signal is  
> supposed to be different from a 'true FSK' signal as G4ILO suggested.

It isn't.

73 de Brian, WB6RQN
Brian Lloyd - brian HYPHEN wb6rqn AT lloyd DOT com


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