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K3 and N1MM Logger Configuration Rosetta Stone

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N0tk

Mar 17, 2009; 1:13am

K3 and N1MM Logger Configuration Rosetta Stone

I need some help from anyone who has successfully used their K3 and N1mm Logger connected through the computer serial Com1 port. With the K3 off and connection from the K3 RS232 connector to the computer Com1 port I select Config Ports and have the settings under the Hardware Tab as Always CW and Don't Change Radio Mode. Under the Hardware Tab I select K3 for Com1 with DTR(Pin4) and RTS(Pin7) both set to Always On as suggested by the N1MM information displayed. With the K3 mode set to CW and the K3 Config for RS232 is set to the default for the K3 I power on the K3 and I click OK for the N1MM Config window. The VFO A window bandmap shows the correct frequency displayed by the K3. Then I get a series of error messages that say Get Entry Window(RadioInterface_Interpret Response)-9-Subscript... which locks up the N1MM program.
Seems like a configuration problem but may also be a problem with the K3 RS232 port.

Any constructive suggestions will be appreciated.

TKS

Dan N0TK
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Jim Brown-10

Mar 17, 2009; 6:00am

Re: K3 and N1MM Logger Configuration Rosetta Stone

On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:13:03 -0400, [hidden email] wrote:

>I need some help from anyone who has successfully used their K3
and
>N1mm Logger connected through the computer serial Com1 port.

I do that a lot. It works great.

>I select Config Ports and have the settings under the Hardware Tab
>as Always CW

What that check means is "use this port to send CW"

>and Don't Change Radio Mode.

I have both of the top boxes checked. There are special reasons for
certain contests where you might want to change that.

>Under the Hardware Tab I select K3 for Com1

Good. Although, if you're not sure that the port you're using is
really com1, check it out. I've had laptops that put com1 only on a
port extender and com2 on the computer itself.

>with DTR(Pin4) and RTS(Pin7) both set to Always On as suggested by
>the N1MM information displayed.

TILT! There's your problem. I'm assuming you want N1MM to send CW.
To do that, left click on the "Set" button for COM1, then choose CW
for DTR (pin4). To run only CW, choose Always Off for RTS (pin 7).
If you want the computer to send PTT to the radio, choose PTT for
RTS(pin7). With DTR Always On, the serial port won't send CW. With
RTS(pin7) Always On, you'll be stuck in Transmit if you set the
radio for PTT on RTS.

Now, go to the Config Menu of the K3 (with a LONG button press for
the second menu) and go to the PTT-KEY setting. To only run CW, set
this for OFF-DTR. To run both SSB with PTT from the computer and CW
from the computer, select RTS-DTR. [This is a WONDERFUL feature
built into the K3 -- you don't need the transistor between the DTR
and the key jack, or between the RTS and PTT. The K3 takes CW
directly from pin 4 and PTT directly from pin 7 -- IF your CONFIG
setting tells it to do so.

Now, I'll tell you what I do. On CW, I run QSK with the K3. Follow
the K3 manual to get there. If you plug a paddle into the radio you
can interchangeably use the paddle and computer keying. For SSB,
RTTY, and PSK, I use VOX, NOT PTT. For RTTY and PSK, I feed audio
from the computer sound card to the radio, and from the radio to
the computer sound card. So I don't use PTT (RTS) at all. Some guys
like to use PTT, that's your choice. I'm a serious contester, and
VOX works for me.

BTW -- if you set N1MM to do both CW and PTT, you can still turn
off CW or PTT or both with the CONFIG setting for PTT-KEY.

73,

Jim Brown K9YC

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Greg - AB7R

Mar 17, 2009; 1:55pm

Re: K3 and N1MM Logger Configuration Rosetta Stone

In reply to this post by N0tk

Hi Jim. I've notice something like timing problems or part of the first character being
chopped when CW AND PTT are set at the same time. If I only set either DTR or RTS to key CW
and no PTT action it keys perfectly.

-------------------------
73,
Greg - AB7R
Whidbey Island WA
NA-065

On Mon Mar 16 23:00 , "Jim Brown" sent:

>On Mon, 16 Mar 2009 21:13:03 -0400, [hidden email] wrote:
>
>>I need some help from anyone who has successfully used their K3
>and
>>N1mm Logger connected through the computer serial Com1 port.
>
>I do that a lot. It works great.
>
>>I select Config Ports and have the settings under the Hardware Tab
>>as Always CW
>
>What that check means is "use this port to send CW"
>
>>and Don't Change Radio Mode.
>
>I have both of the top boxes checked. There are special reasons for
>certain contests where you might want to change that.
>
>>Under the Hardware Tab I select K3 for Com1
>
>Good. Although, if you're not sure that the port you're using is
>really com1, check it out. I've had laptops that put com1 only on a
>port extender and com2 on the computer itself.
>
>>with DTR(Pin4) and RTS(Pin7) both set to Always On as suggested by
>>the N1MM information displayed.
>
>TILT! There's your problem. I'm assuming you want N1MM to send CW.
>To do that, left click on the "Set" button for COM1, then choose CW
>for DTR (pin4). To run only CW, choose Always Off for RTS (pin 7).
>If you want the computer to send PTT to the radio, choose PTT for
>RTS(pin7). With DTR Always On, the serial port won't send CW. With
>RTS(pin7) Always On, you'll be stuck in Transmit if you set the
>radio for PTT on RTS.
>
>Now, go to the Config Menu of the K3 (with a LONG button press for
>the second menu) and go to the PTT-KEY setting. To only run CW, set
>this for OFF-DTR. To run both SSB with PTT from the computer and CW
>from the computer, select RTS-DTR. [This is a WONDERFUL feature
>built into the K3 -- you don't need the transistor between the DTR
>and the key jack, or between the RTS and PTT. The K3 takes CW
>directly from pin 4 and PTT directly from pin 7 -- IF your CONFIG
>setting tells it to do so.
>
>Now, I'll tell you what I do. On CW, I run QSK with the K3. Follow
>the K3 manual to get there. If you plug a paddle into the radio you
>can interchangeably use the paddle and computer keying. For SSB,
>RTTY, and PSK, I use VOX, NOT PTT. For RTTY and PSK, I feed audio
>from the computer sound card to the radio, and from the radio to
>the computer sound card. So I don't use PTT (RTS) at all. Some guys
>like to use PTT, that's your choice. I'm a serious contester, and
>VOX works for me.
>
>BTW -- if you set N1MM to do both CW and PTT, you can still turn
>off CW or PTT or both with the CONFIG setting for PTT-KEY.
>
>73,
>
>Jim Brown K9YC
>
>
>
>
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: [hidden email]','','','')">[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

... [show rest of quote]

______________________________________________________________
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Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Jim Brown-10

Mar 17, 2009; 6:36pm

Re: K3 and N1MM Logger Configuration Rosetta Stone

On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:55:22 -0400, Greg - AB7R wrote:

>Hi Jim. I've notice something like timing problems or part of
the
>first character being chopped when CW AND PTT are set at the same
>time. If I only set either DTR or RTS to key CW and no PTT
action
>it keys perfectly.

Thanks, Greg. Good information. The sub-programs within N1MM and
other logging software that sends CW is one of the weakest parts
of those programs, and it doesn't take much to degrade the CW. In
general, the faster the machine and the more memory it has
available, the better the CW works. The computer in my shack is a
five year old, 1.1 GHz Thinkpad (T22) with 512MB, and it has never
had a problem with CW, even with a lot of other stuff running at
the same time.

Another point. As code for the K3 evolves, the guys who write the
radio control elements of logging software are pedaling as fast as
they can to keep up. There are also some differences in the way
the K3 does things as compared to other radios, and the guys who
are writing the code for the loggers aren't always aware of them.
As a result, there ARE some flakinesses in that part of the
software. All of this is gradually being worked out, as Wayne and
Lyle implement more features that we ask for and tweak the way
things operate.

One example. One thing I LOVE about the K3 is that "normal" puts
CW on the same sideband on all bands, whereas most radios use LSB
on 40M and below, USB above 40M.

73,

Jim K9YC

______________________________________________________________
Elecraft mailing list
Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
Post: mailto:[hidden email]

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Greg - AB7R

Mar 17, 2009; 7:07pm

Re: K3 and N1MM Logger Configuration Rosetta Stone

In reply to this post by N0tk

The problem may have been due to running N1MM from Parallels on a 3.0G iMac. I also notice
some latency with MMTTY after it has been running awhile for RTTY when parallels shares
hardware devices from the Mac. That said...it was still very usable.

IMO John, K3CT is an unsung hero who gets lots of complaints and certainly not enough
accolades when it comes to working on N1MM code.

-------------------------
73,
Greg - AB7R
Whidbey Island WA
NA-065

On Tue Mar 17 11:36 , "Jim Brown" sent:

>On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:55:22 -0400, Greg - AB7R wrote:
>
>>Hi Jim. I've notice something like timing problems or part of
>the
>>first character being chopped when CW AND PTT are set at the same
>>time. If I only set either DTR or RTS to key CW and no PTT
>action
>>it keys perfectly.
>
>Thanks, Greg. Good information. The sub-programs within N1MM and
>other logging software that sends CW is one of the weakest parts
>of those programs, and it doesn't take much to degrade the CW. In
>general, the faster the machine and the more memory it has
>available, the better the CW works. The computer in my shack is a
>five year old, 1.1 GHz Thinkpad (T22) with 512MB, and it has never
>had a problem with CW, even with a lot of other stuff running at
>the same time.
>
>Another point. As code for the K3 evolves, the guys who write the
>radio control elements of logging software are pedaling as fast as
>they can to keep up. There are also some differences in the way
>the K3 does things as compared to other radios, and the guys who
>are writing the code for the loggers aren't always aware of them.
>As a result, there ARE some flakinesses in that part of the
>software. All of this is gradually being worked out, as Wayne and
>Lyle implement more features that we ask for and tweak the way
>things operate.
>
>One example. One thing I LOVE about the K3 is that "normal" puts
>CW on the same sideband on all bands, whereas most radios use LSB
>on 40M and below, USB above 40M.
>
>73,
>
>Jim K9YC
>
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: [hidden email]','','','')">[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

... [show rest of quote]

Andy Faber

Mar 17, 2009; 7:07pm

Re: K3 and N1MM Logger Configuration Rosetta Stone

In reply to this post by Jim Brown-10

Greg,
I noticed the same problem sending CW to the K3 using my own software,
CQPWIN, and a Winkeyer when using the Winkeyer to assert PTT. The cure was
adding even a small amount of Winkey keying delay (as little as 10 msec did
the trick). So if N1MM allows you to do that, you might investigate it.
Also, using the Winkeyer does allow one to avoid having another line for
PTT. And with modern laptops there is an advantage that you can use it
directly attached to a USB port without any serial port converters needed
(the Winkey software generates a virtual serial port that the computer
uses).
73, Andy, ae6y
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Brown" <[hidden email]>
To: "Elecraft List" <[hidden email]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and N1MM Logger Configuration Rosetta Stone

> On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:55:22 -0400, Greg - AB7R wrote:
>
>>Hi Jim. I've notice something like timing problems or part of
> the
>>first character being chopped when CW AND PTT are set at the same
>>time. If I only set either DTR or RTS to key CW and no PTT
> action
>>it keys perfectly.
>
> Thanks, Greg. Good information. The sub-programs within N1MM and
> other logging software that sends CW is one of the weakest parts
> of those programs, and it doesn't take much to degrade the CW. In
> general, the faster the machine and the more memory it has
> available, the better the CW works. The computer in my shack is a
> five year old, 1.1 GHz Thinkpad (T22) with 512MB, and it has never
> had a problem with CW, even with a lot of other stuff running at
> the same time.
>
> Another point. As code for the K3 evolves, the guys who write the
> radio control elements of logging software are pedaling as fast as
> they can to keep up. There are also some differences in the way
> the K3 does things as compared to other radios, and the guys who
> are writing the code for the loggers aren't always aware of them.
> As a result, there ARE some flakinesses in that part of the
> software. All of this is gradually being worked out, as Wayne and
> Lyle implement more features that we ask for and tweak the way
> things operate.
>
> One example. One thing I LOVE about the K3 is that "normal" puts
> CW on the same sideband on all bands, whereas most radios use LSB
> on 40M and below, USB above 40M.
>
> 73,
>
> Jim K9YC
>
>
> ______________________________________________________________
> Elecraft mailing list
> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
> Post: mailto:[hidden email]
>
> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

... [show rest of quote]

Greg - AB7R

Mar 17, 2009; 7:16pm

Re: K3 and N1MM Logger Configuration Rosetta Stone

In reply to this post by N0tk

Thanks Andy. I tried different delay settings but they did not solve the problem. But I do now have a Microham MKII I need
to install that I am sure will solve any related issues. On the otherhand....simply not setting up PTT in MM fixed the
problem too. This also may have been related to using MM with a Parallels interface on a 3.0G iMac.

-------------------------
73,
Greg - AB7R
Whidbey Island WA
NA-065

On Tue Mar 17 12:07 , "Andrew Faber" sent:

>Greg,
> I noticed the same problem sending CW to the K3 using my own software,
>CQPWIN, and a Winkeyer when using the Winkeyer to assert PTT. The cure was
>adding even a small amount of Winkey keying delay (as little as 10 msec did
>the trick). So if N1MM allows you to do that, you might investigate it.
>Also, using the Winkeyer does allow one to avoid having another line for
>PTT. And with modern laptops there is an advantage that you can use it
>directly attached to a USB port without any serial port converters needed
>(the Winkey software generates a virtual serial port that the computer
>uses).
> 73, Andy, ae6y
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Jim Brown" [hidden email]>
>To: "Elecraft List" [hidden email]>
>Sent: Tuesday, March 17, 2009 11:36 AM
>Subject: Re: [Elecraft] K3 and N1MM Logger Configuration Rosetta Stone
>
>
>> On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 09:55:22 -0400, Greg - AB7R wrote:
>>
>>>Hi Jim. I've notice something like timing problems or part of
>> the
>>>first character being chopped when CW AND PTT are set at the same
>>>time. If I only set either DTR or RTS to key CW and no PTT
>> action
>>>it keys perfectly.
>>
>> Thanks, Greg. Good information. The sub-programs within N1MM and
>> other logging software that sends CW is one of the weakest parts
>> of those programs, and it doesn't take much to degrade the CW. In
>> general, the faster the machine and the more memory it has
>> available, the better the CW works. The computer in my shack is a
>> five year old, 1.1 GHz Thinkpad (T22) with 512MB, and it has never
>> had a problem with CW, even with a lot of other stuff running at
>> the same time.
>>
>> Another point. As code for the K3 evolves, the guys who write the
>> radio control elements of logging software are pedaling as fast as
>> they can to keep up. There are also some differences in the way
>> the K3 does things as compared to other radios, and the guys who
>> are writing the code for the loggers aren't always aware of them.
>> As a result, there ARE some flakinesses in that part of the
>> software. All of this is gradually being worked out, as Wayne and
>> Lyle implement more features that we ask for and tweak the way
>> things operate.
>>
>> One example. One thing I LOVE about the K3 is that "normal" puts
>> CW on the same sideband on all bands, whereas most radios use LSB
>> on 40M and below, USB above 40M.
>>
>> 73,
>>
>> Jim K9YC
>>
>>
>> ______________________________________________________________
>> Elecraft mailing list
>> Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>> Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>> Post: [hidden email]','','','')">[hidden email]
>>
>> This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>> Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html
>
>______________________________________________________________
>Elecraft mailing list
>Home: http://mailman.qth.net/mailman/listinfo/elecraft
>Help: http://mailman.qth.net/mmfaq.htm
>Post: [hidden email]','','','')">[hidden email]
>
>This list hosted by: http://www.qsl.net
>Please help support this email list: http://www.qsl.net/donate.html

... [show rest of quote]